+- Tendo City (https://www.tendocity.net)
+-- Forum: Tendo City: Metropolitan District (https://www.tendocity.net/forumdisplay.php?fid=4)
+--- Forum: Ramble City (https://www.tendocity.net/forumdisplay.php?fid=44)
+--- Thread: The George Floyd Case Discussion Thread (/showthread.php?tid=7270)
The George Floyd Case Discussion Thread - Darunia - 4th June 2020
A few questions which I legitimately feel might be answered here before this forum hall.
The neck hold that the cop did... is that ever allowed, is that some kind of textbook way to restrain someone?
Also, the cause of the call was presumably that Floyd was using a counterfeit bill and resisted arrest. Not that either of these would dismiss the horrible abuse of power/murder that was committed, but--did he resist, and was he using counterfeit currency? Media is painting him as a deciphal of Christ at this point, so I'm curious if either of these are true.
Regards,
HRM Darvnia
Goron City, Hyrule
PO Box 16308
RE: The George Floyd Case Discussion Thread - Sacred Jellybean - 5th June 2020
I saw a video in which he didn't resist. I can try to find it again if need be. And even so, is "resisting" justification for murdering a man? If a knee-on-the-neck choke-hold is by the book, does that make that kind of brutality ethical? Because it's sanctioned by the state? The guy pleaded for his life while three officers held him down, slowly choking him to death, while one watched on and did nothing. I can't imagine what the guy must have done to warrant that kind of egregious restraint. It seems nothing short of cowardly.
RE: The George Floyd Case Discussion Thread - Darunia - 5th June 2020
"And even so, is "resisting" justification for murdering a man?":
Not at all. I just want the widest possible picture when looking at it. The action was inexcusable in any situation.
You don't "need" to do anything, I only seek to generate stimulating dialogue and learn more.
RE: The George Floyd Case Discussion Thread - Sacred Jellybean - 5th June 2020
To be clear, I wasn't trying to jump down your throat or put words in your mouth or do anything else otolaryngologically related. The situation just makes me angry.
RE: The George Floyd Case Discussion Thread - A Black Falcon - 5th June 2020
I don't think that "foot on the neck for eight minutes" thing was in any way police procedure.
As for anything he was doing I don't know, but we do know that none of it deserved being murdered.
RE: The George Floyd Case Discussion Thread - Dark Jaguar - 6th June 2020
It IS policie procedure ABF. Not on the books, but in how they behave nationwide. Their response, across the nation, to these protests is the final proof that ALL the police are corrupt. All of them. Every last one. They've been trained wrong. There's nothing for it but to rebuild all policing from the ground up. If the current officers quit in disgust over the rules, good.
RE: The George Floyd Case Discussion Thread - Darunia - 6th June 2020
I don't think every police officer is corrupt. I don't think they're all racists. I wouldn't want to do their job.
RE: The George Floyd Case Discussion Thread - A Black Falcon - 6th June 2020
The idea that "every police officer is corrupt" is utterly absurd. There are many racist police officers, and many police departments full of right-wing racists, but most of what the police do in stopping crime is necessary and good.
Quote:It IS policie procedure ABFI wasn't just saying that, that action is from what I've read not official procedure.
But if you want to expand it, there is no way that "murder brown people" is official police procedure anywhere in this country. Not that openly. It is something that some racists do, and sometimes get away with because of their position as police officers. And yeah, that kind of person has far too much presence in the police in this nation, that much is clear. And it's also clear that police unions do their best to protect their worst people, which is pretty awful. We need to live in a society where the racists and killers can't get away with that kind of thing.
But blaming all people for the actions of some is wrong, and is also obviously inaccurate. I am sure that most police officers in this nation did not join the force to oppress minorities... theyr did so to make a living or protect their communities I would think. And most of what they're doing is exactly that.
But as is quite obvious the protesters have a lot of very valid points to make, and I hope we soon see significant change in policing to make things equally fair for all Americans and not biased against minorities. However, the extremist "defund/destroy the police!" stuff some protesters are saying would lead to a worse society than the one we have now. Saying "criminals, do whatever you want!" would be a horrendous disaster no society would tolerate. Reform is certainly needed though, probably with outside influences to try to tear down the institutional racism in parts of the police.
RE: The George Floyd Case Discussion Thread - Darunia - 7th June 2020
"Defunding police" is the stupidest thing I have heard... ever? Do they think that will lead to peace and harmony? Next time there is a school shooting, a mob of social workers and activists are going to respond? When someone is murdered in a major city, or there is an armed hostage situation, what will be done? A rainbow coalition of therapists will show up and throw flowers at them until the perp breaks down and submits for a big group hug? This is beyond demented! We all need police, in every major community!
Next time a corrupt teacher rapes a student, are we going to defund/disband schools?
Are we going to cancel churches next time a rogue priests molests a choir boy?
I can't believe we are having this conversation as a country. It's----unthinkable. I am voting for Biden 100% but this kind of RETARDED nonsense drives me head over heels away from the Democrats.
RE: The George Floyd Case Discussion Thread - Weltall - 8th June 2020
The idea of defunding police is to replace police with specialized response teams. If you have a violent, dangerous situation, you would have police-like units responding with appropriate force. But, there are plenty of situations where armed response does not make things better. Do you need guns and a show of deadly force to apprehend someone for passing a fake bill or committing fraud? I mean, you don't want an army of therapists responding to an active shooter situation in a school, but those are the people you do want on the scene once it's not active!
I feel like there should be a revision of standards for police, if you're going to keep them around. They should be highly educated, carefully vetted, and operate under the strictest scrutiny. And then, paid a lot better. And then, every police department in America must purge its forces of every cop with a history of violence, aggression, bigotry or criminal activity. Police should be treated and compensated like professionals. Right now, we pay cops poorly, which means that we are hiring lots of cops who should never be cops, and we have cities on fire because we are getting what we pay for.
by the way, the shop owner who received the fake bill from George Floyd has publicly come out in support of the protests, and does not believe Floyd was even aware the bill was fake.
RE: The George Floyd Case Discussion Thread - Dark Jaguar - 8th June 2020
I have reserved my use of this word until now.
FUCK the police! Every last one of them. There are no good cops left.
Fuck the system, the police, Trump, Biden (the guy I'm voting for), ALL of them. They're all at fault. (Biden is responsible for civil forfeiture.)
They can ALL go straight to Hell. Do not pass go, do not collect $200.
Everything is way WAY worse than you think ABF.
RE: The George Floyd Case Discussion Thread - Sacred Jellybean - 9th June 2020
Hahahaaa hell yeah DJ
RE: The George Floyd Case Discussion Thread - Sacred Jellybean - 9th June 2020
Food for thought: Camden, NJ has a reputation for being one of the most dangerous cities in America. Nonetheless, they've seen a great deal of improvement since totally restructuring their law enforcement. In 2013, they fired all of their police department, replaced them with county-level police, and gave them strict guidelines for de-escalation, using force as an absolutely last resort, and punishment for those who don't follow the guidelines. Most of the cops are on the beat, giving the community an opportunity to know their police force. It's a lot less scary to have a confrontation with someone you know, than someone you don't, and assume the worst.
Reports of excessive force dropped 95%, and in just 7 years, homocides-per-year dropped from 67 to 25.
https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-06-04/how-camden-new-jersey-reformed-its-police-department
RE: The George Floyd Case Discussion Thread - Sacred Jellybean - 9th June 2020
"De-fund the police" isn't a very good slogan to adopt. It implies that cities want to totally scrap the police force, without saying anything about replacing them. De-fund the police could mean a lot of things. How much money do we take away? Where do we divert the funds? There's a conversation to be putting less money into police and more into community programs to help target poverty, from which crime inevitably springs. De-fund the police is simplistic and extreme, and gives ammunition to republicans to say that democrats/liberals want nothing but anarchy and lawlessness.
Modern day Republican voters will eat this up like they do all ridiculous talking points, like post-birth abortions, so that's immaterial. But there are a lot of centrist voters that will be turned off by this. I know governing isn't all about PR (though it seems that way sometimes), but we need to take a more measured approach.
God, that sounds like so much mealy-mouthed Democrat white noise. But in this case, that slogan takes things too far. I know coming up with slogans and hashtags doesn't leave much room for nuance, but surely we can do better than this?
RE: The George Floyd Case Discussion Thread - Darunia - 11th June 2020
The pendulum, it looks, dear friends, is swinging back in favor of the left. I hope it swings far enough to get Biden into office, but no further. I do not like defund the police, and I got into a very heated argument with a good friend the other day because I hate cancel culture, and walking on eggshells so as not to offend people. I hate how suddenly it's so trendy and cool for corporations and city councels to throw their lot in with the cause célèbre of the day. I also don't like statues of Columbus, Churchill and Confederates being torn down in fury.
Nobody is perfect---not even George Floyd was a perfect person... {BLASPHEMY! BURN ME AT THE STAKE!} but he has been deified as a poster child for BLM. Yes, BLM matter; so does mine, and so do my sons' lives. Churchill was a great man who I greatly admire.
RE: The George Floyd Case Discussion Thread - Weltall - 11th June 2020
So, I lived the majority of my life in the capital city of the Confederacy and grew up with its history all around me.
Confederate statues should be left standing, but thoroughly defaced and repurposed to serve as a reminder to everyone that the Confederate States of America was a failed, anti-democratic, authoritarian slave state who killed more Americans in their war of aggression than all of America's foreign enemies combined in 250 years. There is literally no positive value to the Confederacy or its history except that their willingness to kill Americans to preserve slavery hastened the end of slavery. They were not just enemies of the United States, but of all its high ideals and basic human decency. It is a worthless heritage that deserves to be dishonored and blemished, but not erased. For, to erase it would be to protect it from the scorn it deserves.
In all honesty, the USA should have erased and damned the memory of the Confederacy right away, as the Germans did with the memory and symbols of the Nazis.
RE: The George Floyd Case Discussion Thread - A Black Falcon - 13th June 2020
Confederate statues and monuments, US military bases named for Confederate generals, and such, are all products of the early 20th century. They aren't from just after the war, people would never have put so much effort then into memorializing the pro-slavery losers of the war. Instead, they came from later, statements against black rights in monumental form. The statues aren't really about the Civil War, but about how Southern white people wanted to make statements about what their ideal is, a society built on open racism. (And that is why you never see statues of Lee's right-hand-man James Longstreet, since after the war he became a Republican and supported black rights...)
So, I certainly believe in remembering history and keeping some of them in museums is just fine. But why should so many cities be filled with memorials put up expressly as statements of how much Southern whites hate black people? No, take them all down from public places. The sudden rush of movement against Southern memorials and the use of the Confederate Battle Flag are fantastic and I very much hope they continue!
As for Columbus, he was a really quite horrendous person and taking down his statues makes a lot of sense. Seriously, read about the kinds of things he did.
RE: The George Floyd Case Discussion Thread - Geno - 13th June 2020
Here in Montgomery, Alabama, we built a memorial to victims of lynching. The same white people who bellyache about Confederate statues being removed also bellyached about this memorial, claiming it was "stirring the pot" and continuing to fuel racial division (the history argument apparently doesn't apply here). These are the same people who decided to refer to MLK Day as Robert E. Lee Day. Their racism is so thinly veiled, they might as well be wearing white robes.
The history argument is a poor one anyway. Why do we need statues to learn from history? That's what books, classrooms, and museums are for. And I do support putting some of these Confederate memorials and statues into museums. However, it sends a much different message when you display them in the middle of a townsquare for all to see. In doing that, we're celebrating people who maybe don't need to be celebrated. Here in Montgomery, we have schools named after Robert E. Lee, Jefferson Davis, and Sidney Lanier, all of which have majority black student populations. There is no reason why these schools should be named after the very people who fought to keep black people enslaved. Changing the names doesn't erase history; it just means we choose not to celebrate the worst parts of it. Montgomery is the birthplace of the Civil Rights Movement and is notably where Rosa Parks refused to give up her seat on a bus. We could rename these schools after Rosa Parks, Dr. King, and other civil rights leaders. That is a history worth celebrating. And I guarantee you, if we do that, white people whose children don't even attend those schools will freak out... but I mean, who cares what they think?
And yeah, it's absurd that military bases are named after Confederate generals. We do realize those were our enemies, right? We're stationing US troops in military bases named after men who killed US troops? There's even an elementary school named after Robert E. Lee in the state of Washington, so don't give me that crap about it being a celebration of "southern heritage." The naming of these schools and military bases, and the installation of these statues and memorials, is and always was a statement of white dominance over African Americans.
So yeah, this white Alabama man supports the removal of all Confederate statues, flags, and memorials and the renaming of all schools, military bases, and other locations named after Confederate figures. If you had asked me my opinion 15-20 years ago, I would have told you the same thing: the Confederates were the bad guys in that war, they lost the war, and they barely existed four years in the mid-19th century, so I don't see why southern white people are still making such a big deal out of them. Why does celebrating southern heritage mean we constantly have to celebrate all the worst parts of it? Let's start a new heritage that isn't evil, ignorant, racist garbage.
RE: The George Floyd Case Discussion Thread - Dark Jaguar - 5th July 2020
I don't even consider Biden to be "left" at all Darunia, so you can imagine my thoughts on the matter. I want it to swing WAY further.
I keep being told that this that or the other thing we absolutely need, like saving the planet, will "destroy capitalism". Well, there it is. If the choice is between universal healthcare, social justice, a far better welfare system, and saving the planet on one side, and "capitalism" on the other side.
Then capitalism has to go.