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+--- Thread: Joe Biden accused of rape (/showthread.php?tid=7254)
Joe Biden accused of rape - alien space marine - 26th March 2020
this is the more "electable candidate"
RE: Joe Biden accused of rape - A Black Falcon - 27th March 2020
While it is possible that this charge is true (after all, Biden certainly has a history of being creepy, though not doing anything like this claim says), there is probably a reason that only the far-left and far-right internet (and really, it's mostly just the far left, not the right) are talking about it and not anyone in the mainstream media -- there are a LOT of problems with this allegation and the woman making the charge.
So, in 1993, this woman was working for Biden and says that incident occurred. What is believable about the charge is the words she says he said -- it is very clearly in language Biden uses, the way he speaks.
What makes it hard to believe is a lot of other things about it. So, the woman who made the charge first brought up something like this 11 months ago, when several other women talked about the ways Biden had been creepy to them. I'm sure those other women are telling the truth, he's on camera smelling peoples' hair, getting way too close, etc, on numerous occasions. This woman, again, first brought this up 11 months ago, but without the additional details that make it so different from the other ones. At the time, people questioned her charge more so than the other ones because she's got no evidence for it beyond her word and her word is highly questionable -- she's written some articles effusively praising Vladimir Putin. So, since this Putin fan now is accusing the primary opponent of Putin's underling Trump of a serious charge, naturally people said 'wait, is this just a Russian operation?'. Or maybe there is something else about the charge or her credibility that the mainstream media questions. Regardless, so far no mainstream media source, not even Fox News, has run the story, and there is probably good reason for that.
So, she wanted to get the story out anyway, and how did she do so? With The Intercept and people like Shaun King. With every legitimate news source refusing to help you out, she had to go to some highly unreliable news sources instead. And that's where it still is at this point.
And now there is even more reason to wonder about that, because of her timing. See, she claims to want to help Bernie here and mentioned him in the tweets announcing this, but that doesn't hold up -- it is too late for that, Bernie has lost. Sure, he refuses to admit defeat and is, just like in 2016, obnoxiously holding on and damaging our candidate for no reason other than his ego, but he has lost. So, releasing this charge now does nothing to stop Biden from winning the primary. If she'd said these details a month ago, or three weeks ago, even, maybe it could have had an impact. Maybe not -- again, the media doesn't seem to believe her -- but it'd have had a chance.
Now, though? Why release this NOW? The only person this helps is Donald Trump, someone guilty of far worse sexual crimes than anything even she is accusing Biden of. Well, Donald Trump and Vladimir Putin. It is very strange timing to say the least if she was actually trying to help Bernie.
This is one of her (now deleted) articles going on and on about how amazing Putin is: https://web.archive.org/web/20190404212541/https://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:1xNQdypvyHcJ:https://medium.com/%40shewrites94/bring-on-the-light-bf4e8c859058+&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us
If legitimate media sites who are investigating this charge, and I'm sure some are, do research and report it as true, then there probably is something to it. And we all knew Biden was open to a charge like this thanks to his long history of being creepy. That history is part of why I voted Warren in the primary and not Biden. But until then it's fair to be doubtful, I think.
RE: Joe Biden accused of rape - Sacred Jellybean - 29th March 2020
The most (and only, imo) compelling argument above is that mainstream news sources haven't covered it. Hell, I can't even find anything on Breitbart. The closest I did see was that National Review brought it up. Not so much specific to the credibility of Tara Reide, but basically, "Look, now a woman is making an accusation against one of your people, Democrats, guess you should automatically believe her like you did with Christine Ford."
Otherwise, all of the talking points above can be explained in one way or another, which makes them sound self-serving, and a little too much like the spin people want to put on survivors' stories when they don't want to believe them.
- She wrote an article praising Putin. So? Her politics don't preclude her from being raped, even if it would technically come as an advantage to Biden's adversary. In an interview she gave with Katie Halper, she said that she liked Biden and his politics, and felt betrayed. And voted for Obama twice, in spite of his running-mate.
- You don't need to catch someone on camera, raping another person, to believe the survivor. The fact that we have evidence of Joe being creepy to women only bolsters the possibility that he took it another step.
- 11 months ago, she brought up a separate incident that happened around the same time. Not only close-touching, but being asked to serve drinks at a party, and harrassed/retaliated against at work when she declined to do so. It's true that this hasn't been corroborated, but for what it's worth, she did tell her brother and friend at the time it happened (each of whom confirmed this to Halper). Could she have gotten them to lie? Of course. But now we're talking about three people lying instead of one.
- Why do this now? I don't know. Why did Christine Blasey Ford "wait" until Kavanaugh was up for confirmation before coming out with her story? It takes a lot of courage to come out into public scrutiny and make an accusation. This story is more intense and (if true) traumatizing than close touching, something that could have been easier because other women were coming forward, which inspired her to do the same. Kind of like more women coming forward with #MeToo stories. Maybe Tara Reide didn't want to tell a difficult story to the public until she thought Biden had a chance to become the nominee, and she thought people should know.
What do I believe? I don't know. I listened to the Halper interview, and it's very harrowing. If Reide is lying/acting, she should get an award. But the fact that only fringe sites are covering this sets off my BS alarm.
RE: Joe Biden accused of rape - A Black Falcon - 31st March 2020
https://www.salon.com/2020/03/31/a-woman-accuses-joe-biden-of-sexual-assault-and-all-hell-breaks-loose-online-heres-what-we-know/
Salon just published a mostly pretty good article here. It does basically say "both sides are bad" effectively and refuses to pick which side the author thinks might be more right, but the analysis of the facts is good -- there are good reasons to question the charge (she has repeatedly changed her story, failed in attempts to get the mainstream media to listen, etc) but also reasons to believe it, and the author also doubts the 'she's working for Putin' story ('wouldn't she be better at covering her tracks if she actually was?' is a fair point really...).
The bit there about how she was still praising Putin as of February 2020, so her "I have changed my mind on Putin" statement is questionable unless as the author says it was VERY recent, is an interesting bit I did not know. She's much more likely to be a leftist who likes Putin (even though Putin is very right wing!) than someone actually working for him, certainly, but it doesn't say anything good for her credibility and does leave the question open.
Christine Blasey Ford had the credibility and evidence to convincingly prove her case. So far Tara Reide does not. That could change, but that's where it is now.
I will say, her initial claim from April 2019, about Biden being creepy to her, getting too close, etc? That claim is entirely believable and I think it probably happened. I remember hearing about it at the time and thinking 'yeah, that sounds like a creepy-Biden kind of thing he'd do'. It is the new, dramatically stronger claim that has issues.
The sad thing is, if this charge IS true which, yes, it could be given Biden's history of creepiness, she's done so much to damage her credibility that I don't know how many people outside of the Bernie sphere will believe it.
from the article Wrote:The timeline shows that Reade's involvement in the online world of Bernie fandom coincided with her escalation of accusations against Biden. To be clear, this does not mean she's lying. But taken along with the other discrepancies in Reade's accounts — which are also, on their own, not reasons to discredit her — it's enough to make publications take a slow and careful approach to amplifying this story.This doesn't prove anything, as it is entirely plausible that she decided to talk about this true thing which happened to her at the same time that she got into the Bernie-sphere, but it probably is one of the things on the list of reasons why the mainstream press is mostly not reporting on this, it's a red flag for sure.
RE: Joe Biden accused of rape - A Black Falcon - 19th April 2020
Well, the NY Times and Washington Post finally reported on Reade's charge, and concluded that ...they couldn't find much evidence either way to prove or disprove it. I found both articles well worth reading, but I think (angry Biden haters who think they should have been more critical aside) that they mostly did a good job of covering the facts they could find, and lack thereof.
On the 'supporting the charge' side, Reade has a friend who fully backs up the charge, and repeated it, saying Reade told her about it back then. This friend did not return the press's calls last year, when Reade made her first, lesser charge, but now has. Additionally, it was found that Reade was removed from some aspects of her job in the Biden office, specifically the job of overseeing some interns, in early 1993, though the interns had no idea why. Then she left the job, and Washington, a few months later. Also her brother sort of backed up her claim as well, but not at first -- in his first interview he only mentioned the charge from last year, only to, several days later, tweet 'oh yeah and she also said this way worse thing'. I don't know about that, if that is true that's ... not the best way to get people to believe you.
On the 'against the charge' side, the three higher-ups in the Biden office who she claims she told about sexual harassment denied that anyone, her or otherwise, ever made any kind of claim like that about Biden. One said 'some Senators back then were known for doing that kind of thing, but Biden was not one of them'. Additionally, she claimed that she made a sexual harassment report back in '93, but no record of this report has turned up despite reporters searching for it. Such a report would have been required to be followed up with a hearing as well, but there is no sign of such a thing happening either.
And on the 'this is suspicious' front, that Reade's story has changed significantly over time is mentioned. In contrast, once Christine Blasey Ford talked about Kavanaugh, she told her story and stuck to it. Tara Reade hasn't done that. The bit I mentioned earlier about her brother is also odd. Her record of effusive praise for Putin doesn't help her credibility either. She has also given several stories over the years for why she left the Biden office and Washington, each completely different. And there is no paper trail whatsoever, no evidence either way to prove the charge true or false. Most sexual harassment claims are true and this one may be also, but if this is all the press can find it isn't enough to prove the case beyond doubt, that's for sure. I do think Biden might have done it, but it's probably more likely he didn't. But with what we know now there's no way to be sure either way.
RE: Joe Biden accused of rape - Dark Jaguar - 26th April 2020
Yeah about that Larry King call...
ABF, you have a double standard right now. 8 people are accusing Biden of inappropriate behavior. That's more than the number who accused "I Like Beer" of the supreme court of such allegations. They're credible especially in that volume. Just hold him to the same standard we hold the right, because right now it feels like the entire left has decided to abandon "Me Too" and it's... maddening, depressing... humiliating...
RE: Joe Biden accused of rape - A Black Falcon - 26th April 2020
Only one person is accusing Joe Biden of doing anything more than the creepy but not overtly sexual behavior we see him doing in countless videos and gifs, though. It's a very important difference, one is creepy and not really okay anymore (if it ever was okay, which it shouldn't have been) while the other is horrible. There is plenty of proof of Biden doing the former, and only this allegation for the latter. (That is unlike Kavanaugh, who was accused of sexual misconduct by multiple women.)
As for the Larry King call, it certainly provides good supporting evidence that SOMETHING happened in that office between her and someone else, and that whatever it was was a major factor in why she left. What that was, though, whether it's the "he touched my hair, rubbed my shoulders, and wanted me to serve drinks at some function" of her first claim or "he fingered me" of her second? The call says nothing about that. It could be either one.
RE: Joe Biden accused of rape - Sacred Jellybean - 28th April 2020
Quote:Just hold him to the same standard we hold the right, because right now it feels like the entire left has decided to abandon "Me Too" and it's... maddening, depressing... humiliating...
100% this, right here, though I agree with ABF that inappropriate touching isn't in the same league as sexual assault. 2 years ago, we didn't stand for Al Franken purportedly putting his hand on a woman's ass while taking a photo, writing a stage script to have an excuse to kiss a fellow actress, and taking a lewd picture where he pretends to grope her breasts.
The problem is, the bar has been lowered significantly. Too much is at stake here to hold ourselves to the same high standard as we normally would. Trump is literally on tape bragging about sexually assaulting women, with 20 or more (I can never keep track) women accusing him of sexual assault. It's maddening and disheartening that one side is either proudly immoral, willfully ignorant, or quietly excuses this kind of pathological behavior, while our side is ready to turn on our own in a flash. It puts us at a massive disadvantage.
Not this time. Too much is at stake here. This country cannot withstand another 4 years of Trump. We're already basically fucked anyway. I'm willing to be a hypocrite, just this once, and overlook an allegation to pull the lever for Biden. If so much weren't hanging in the balance, I'd be vocally criticizing him as I would anyone else. Everyone's got their breaking point.
RE: Joe Biden accused of rape - etoven - 30th April 2020
I would hoestly take a child rapping, serial twittle dideling, clown prince over what we have now.
Does not swap his policatial standing with me one bit. True or otherwise.
RE: Joe Biden accused of rape - Sacred Jellybean - 5th May 2020
Hmm, this is interesting. Tara Reade went back and edited her old posts detailing her experience of sexual harassment with Joe Biden. She literally changed them from saying "this is not a story about sexual misconduct" to "this is not only a story about sexual misconduct". https://romansresearch.wordpress.com/2020/04/29/tara-reades-updated-medium-post-all-material-edits/
Among other holes in her story. The post below does a good job of summing them up. I tracked down sources for each of his points as well, in case anyone is interested.
https://www.reddit.com/r/samharris/comments/g9n5bh/imagine_how_strange_it_would_be_if_the_political/fov9xb9?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x
Reade's allegations deserve a full airing and investigation. However, that investigation cannot ignore the problematic and inconsistent aspects of her story.
1) She claims she made a harassment (not assault) claim against Biden to her superiors within Biden's Senate office, that she told multiple people at multiple levels within the office, and that meetings were held on the topic where notes were taken. Every individual at that office (21 in total) interviewed denied that this ever happened. She also claims she filed a complaint to the Senate Personnel Office, and that she filled out paperwork. There is no record of such a complaint.
2) Her story about the nature of the allegations has shifted.
- In April, 2019, when she first came forward publicly about allegations against Biden, she is quoted as saying:
Quote:He used to put his hand on my shoulder and run his finger up my neck,” Reade said. “I would just kind of freeze and wait for him to stop doing that.
Quote:Reade said Biden’s senior staff protected the senator. She was considered a distraction. Reade said she didn’t consider the acts toward her sexualization. She instead compared her experience to being a lamp.
Quote:“It’s pretty. Set it over there,” she said. “Then when it’s too bright, you throw it away.”
- Then in March, 2020, her allegations shifts to include the much more serious sexual assault claim involving digital penetration of her genitals. Considering the incontrovertibly sexual nature of this allegation, why make a special point previously to note that you considered his actions to be non-sexual?
- In an essay she wrote in 2009 about her experiences with domestic abuse involving her ex-husband, she wrote that she left D.C. to follow her future husband to the Midwest, where he was going to be working on a Congressional campaign.
- Then in 2018, she wrote that she left her D.C. job for the following reasons:
Quote:When I was in my early twenties and just out of college, I began my journey into politics. I left that political work behind a few years ago. I resigned my position and took myself out of the Washington DC beltway. Why? First, I started as an actor in classical theatre, an artist and writer before Washington DC. This work in the arts has always been my first love and best vocation. Second, I saw the reckless imperialism of America and the pain it caused through out the world. Third, I love Russia with all my heart. I love the people, the history, the culture and even my attempts to learn the language. I could not stand to watch the deception and xenophobia that came from my own American government. It is so sad and destructive to revile another culture or country for no reason but economic gain.
- After she went public with her Biden allegation, her story shifted yet again:
Quote:Then, I went to Senate personnel for help. No one helped me. I resigned or I would say, I was forced to resign. I was told to look for another job.
4) Reade's writings reveal other contradictions in stories she tells, which calls into question either her memory of past events or a penchant for embellishment. In 2009, she wrote this about moving to D.C. to take her new Senate job:
Quote:As the plane descended into Washington D. C., my Siamese cat, Cleo, meowed loudly from under my seat. Cleo had been through all my many moves, men, and a couple of Los Angeles earthquakes. As the lights of Washington D.C. reflected through the plane’s windows, the excitement of my new job as a Senate staffer lay ahead of me.
In 2019, this was the new version of that event:
Quote:I was beyond excited, I packed up my Nissan and cats, told my boyfriend goodbye and headed alone on the cross country drive to Washington D.C.
5) Reade's public sentiments regarding Joe Biden shift quite abruptly. In 2016, she's liking tweets wishing a happy birthday, retweeting others calling Biden the best VP in history. In 2017, Reade's twitter account retweets and likes various stories and tweets specifically praising Joe Biden for speaking out about sexual assault, and in one tweet says "My old boss speaks truth. Listen."
By September, 2019, after she has come out with the initial "non-sexual" allegations against Biden, she's publicly tweeting that Joe Biden should be investigated for Burisma.
6) I'm no Russophobe, but the things that she has publicly written about Vladimir Putin are downright bizarre. But more importantly, the timing for when her public sentiments for Biden change (see above) seem to coincide with the time at which her public sentiments for Russia and Putin change.
In 2017, she retweets and likes articles outlining Trump's links to Russia, tweets calling for Senate investigations into Russia's involvement in the Trump campaign, and criticizing Russia for legislation that decriminalizes domestic violence.
By 2018, her views on Russia have shifted drastically. In fact, "drastically" is putting the degree of her change in views lightly. She writes:
Quote:President Putin’s genius is his judo ability to conserve his own energy and let the opponents flail, using up their energy, while he gains position. Currently, President Putin has a higher approval rating in America then the American President, particularly with women. President Putin has an alluring combination of strength with gentleness. His sensuous image projects his love for life, the embodiment of grace while facing adversity. It is evident that he loves his country, his people and his job. Although his job may seem like in the words of writer, Elizabeth Gilbert on genius, “ trying to swallow the sun.” This is a whole lot to deal with for one mere mortal… President Putin’s obvious reverence for women, children and animals, and his ability with sports is intoxicating to American women.
I'm not trying to imply that sometime in 2017 Reade becomes a Russian sleeper agent or anything like that. But something very radicalizing seems to happen to her between 2017 and 2018, and that change in her worldview is when she also reimagines the reasons she left Washington D.C. behind and her views on her former employer.
7) Reade's brother gave shifting accounts of what he claims Reade told him, first telling the Post about "harassment", then later texting an outlet that he actually remembered her saying that he touched her under her clothes. IMHO, that's not a minor detail that just comes back to you later.
8) Biden's penchant for inappropriately touching women's hair or rubbing their shoulders is well known by now. 7 women came out last year to tell stories about instances such as these involving Biden. In interviews with these women by the NY Times, however, none of them alleged that Biden's actions crossed the line into sexual assault. Tara Reade's allegation remains the only allegation of sexual assault leveled against Biden in his 50 year career.
RE: Joe Biden accused of rape - A Black Falcon - 6th May 2020
You cover a lot of the reasons to question the story here, including a few things I didn't know about -- I didn't realize she had edited her old posts to add significant things like that in, that's not good. I hadn't heard her two different stories about her trip to D.C. either, why would you do that?
One thing you missed, though -- that some of the reporters .working on this story have "helped" some of the witnesses remember what she told them. Before the brother texted back "oh yeah she said he fingered me"? One of the reporters , Nathan Robinson, talked to him about it. A reporter talked to the neighbor before she came forward with her story that she was told in the mid '90s, too. I believe Tara Reade talked to both of them as well before they said anything publicly. I'm not saying they didn't have real stories to remember, they may have, but that is called coaching a witness. You remind the witness what it is they should be remembering, and if done well they think it's what they remember all along, whether or not it is...
Also, before announcing the enhanced charge, Tara Reade and one of the journalists, Ryan Grim, were tweeting. Grim said 'Biden will not be the nominee', to which Reade replied a message saying 'tic toc', as in, the Twitter term for 'leak/news coming soon, wait for it'. I don't think that is how anyone should be announcing a serious charge like that, much less admitting that they are doing it for political reasons!
So, if any parts of her story are true, as at least the 2019 charge may be because that's the kind of thing Biden does, her constantly changing stories and the nakedly political-hit elements of the story have damaged her credibility too much for most people to keep believing her, I think, apart from those who already want to hate Biden.
Oh, and have you heard about the part where (I believe this happened in '16 or so) she tried to scam a horse charity she worked for by charging a $1400 vet bill for her own personal horse to the charity's account? Or read the somewhat nuts letter she sent them when they called her on it and said 'no, you will need to pay that back'? She acted like they were doing something horrible by making her pay that back, said she'd never work with them again, etc. A scan of the letter's out there. I know the Russia stuff is bad, but so is this. People who work for the charity say she was a serial liar.
As for the Russia stuff....
https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1243613797769592832.html
She supposedly had $400,000 of debt in 2017, somehow, just before she changed her name and started to praise Putin. This is also after the incident where she had to leave these charity after trying to scam it. Also, she also has a deleted Russian-language blog post where she attacks Mueller and quotes a Putin spokesman. I am not a conspiracy theorist so I don't think I believe the "she's just doing this because Putin is paying her" explanation, but there is enough there to seriously wonder.
Despite all this, I'm sure the allegation is hurting Biden's poll numbers a bit. For the most part Biden is far ahead, but a few polls show it closer. The gap should increase even more as times goes on if nothing much more comes of the allegation, though, as right now seems likely.
Like, we knew this would be the Trump supporters' play -- to hurt Biden with his weakness, his known creepy behavior towards women. With Bernie it would be socialism, with Warren her claim to Native American heritage and her gender, etc... there was going to be something nasty from that side regardless, and with Biden this kind of charge is it. They're desperate to win in November whatever it takes.
RE: Joe Biden accused of rape - A Black Falcon - 15th May 2020
Well, this charge is pretty solidly disproven now.
https://www.pbs.org/newshour/politics/what-74-former-biden-staffers-think-about-tara-reades-allegations
PBS tried to get in contact with 200 former staffers who worked for Biden. 74 of them returned their calls, and the result was unanimous: ALL of them say they know of no harassment or assault charges in that office. In fact there are comments about how that Biden's office was a haven away from that kind of behavior in the senate at the time, that was common in some senate ffices. Every one of them agreed that it was a good working environment.
One of the people contacted, Ben Savage (not that one), was her supervisor; he was the tech guy. She doesn't remember him apparently but he remembers her, and says she was bad at her job, which is why her responsibilities got cut -- he remembers her being worse at it than anyone else he worked with there, or such. He says he talked to his manager about cutting her responsibilities because of her poor performance, and they did that. That manager doesn't remember her, but does remember Savage being particularly good, one of the best people they had apparently.
There is much more in the article, but one other part that really stood out to me was the part which put her 2019 harassment claim in serious doubt -- the article makes it clear that there was a hard line between campaign staff and office staff, and no office staff would ever have been at a campaign event, much less asked to serve drinks there. So her "he asked me to serve drinks at a campaign function" claim is almost certainly false. Additionally, Biden didn't do many events or fundraisers either, he was going home every night on the train, as people famously know.
Additionally, nobody ever heard of anyone bringing him a gym bag. Never. And even more importantly, that area of that Senate office building is wide open, with lots of people and offices around. There are no side areas for them to go to as she claimed.
In summary the assault clearly did not happen. The sexual harassment from Biden clearly did not happen either. Did he get uncomfortably close sometime and smell her hair or osmething, as he is known to do? SUre, maybe, but that is an entirely different conversation. Did she have a bad experience there, and complain about it years later to her now-ex and her mother? Yes. But what kind of bad experience it was is quite unclear.
Meanwhile, another news report says that four days before she quit or was fired from Biden's office, Reade was charged with check fraud. And before that, her pay was docked for misconduct. After that came the bounced check (check fraud), then four days after that, the record says that she was fired -- not that she resigned as she claims, that she was fired. I wonder if that was connected to her departure or not.... https://twitter.com/STEMthebleeding/status/1258866017587138562
A third report, from Politico, looks at her history over the past decade and finds a great many people with a lot of bad things to say about her, her history of lying and attempted scams, and more. But while it provides more evidence against her character, it doesn't disprove the charge. PBS, however, does, pretty conclusively I think. I know some people will still believe Biden did it even after this, because they want to hate him, but there's very little to no credible ground to base that belief on now, I think.