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+--- Thread: For Whom the Bell Curves (/showthread.php?tid=7241)
For Whom the Bell Curves - Dark Jaguar - 10th January 2020
Right up front, the video I'm about to embed is titanic in size, that is it's practically as long as the movie Titanic.
Also, it's about the book "The Bell Curve".
I've probably lost you already, but hear me out. Most of you probably already know that book as a piece of racist eugenics propaganda that modern racists trot out as their holy tome. This video goes in depth and tells you every argument the book makes as well as the evidence presented for it. It reveals that the authors aren't themselves geneticists and thus lack expertice necessary to inform their conclusions. It reveals they also didn't conduct any of the studies they source. It also reveals a number of fundamental issues in all their sourced studies, from their biggest study having been conducted in aparteid South Africa to studies authored by someone who flat out states the studies are worthless to studies that indicate the opposite of what they state they do. It also reveals the origin and funding behind the book, exposing the obvious but denied truth that this IS in fact racist propaganda, and it is not "brave".
And it reveals one more thing. The style of this book is to pretend to believe moderate and egalitarian things regarding race and IQ and their connection to prosperity, but then just run right ahead and argue as if they had stated and proved the oppsite. Whenever someone says "aha you didn't read the book here's a quote where they point that out too!" to your counter argument, just point out that they not only contradict themselves, they did it on purpose to disguise what they really believe is true, what they would HAVE to believe is true in order to propose the horrible eugenics policies they present.
And if you actually watched all that, and you're like me, you probably never want to hear about "The Bell Curve" ever again. Neither do I, but in the event someone tries throwing it at you in some argument online now you've got a quick link to toss at them so you can just ditch the argument.
RE: For Whom the Bell Curves - etoven - 11th January 2020
(10th January 2020, 1:01 PM)Dark Jaguar Wrote: Right up front, the video I'm about to embed is titanic in size, that is it's practically as long as the movie Titanic.
Also, it's about the book "The Bell Curve".
I've probably lost you already, but hear me out. Most of you probably already know that book as a piece of racist eugenics propaganda that modern racists trot out as their holy tome. This video goes in depth and tells you every argument the book makes as well as the evidence presented for it. It reveals that the authors aren't themselves geneticists and thus lack expertice necessary to inform their conclusions. It reveals they also didn't conduct any of the studies they source. It also reveals a number of fundamental issues in all their sourced studies, from their biggest study having been conducted in aparteid South Africa to studies authored by someone who flat out states the studies are worthless to studies that indicate the opposite of what they state they do. It also reveals the origin and funding behind the book, exposing the obvious but denied truth that this IS in fact racist propaganda, and it is not "brave".
And it reveals one more thing. The style of this book is to pretend to believe moderate and egalitarian things regarding race and IQ and their connection to prosperity, but then just run right ahead and argue as if they had stated and proved the oppsite. Whenever someone says "aha you didn't read the book here's a quote where they point that out too!" to your counter argument, just point out that they not only contradict themselves, they did it on purpose to disguise what they really believe is true, what they would HAVE to believe is true in order to propose the horrible eugenics policies they present.
And if you actually watched all that, and you're like me, you probably never want to hear about "The Bell Curve" ever again. Neither do I, but in the event someone tries throwing it at you in some argument online now you've got a quick link to toss at them so you can just ditch the argument.
Holy cow.
RE: For Whom the Bell Curves - Sacred Jellybean - 13th January 2020
Thanks for posting. I started watching, but will have to do so in bursts, as it's hard to find time.
I was actually just dating a girl who was all into the Intellectual Dark Web, big Sam Harris fan, and insisted that in spite of the outcome, it's okay and even necessary to Just Ask Questions, lest we embrace ignorance. I told her that making these kinds of distinctions reminds me of people who go out of their way to insist "it's not pedophilia, it's ephebophilia." They're not wrong, but I'll give them the side eye and wonder what their motivations are. Though in this case, it sounds like Murray really is wrong.
Anyway, I'm pretty sure she was all about this book, so I wish I could send this video to her. But she was a terrible and abusive person, so I cut her off completely.
RE: For Whom the Bell Curves - Dark Jaguar - 13th January 2020
(13th January 2020, 6:34 AM)Sacred Jellybean Wrote: Thanks for posting. I started watching, but will have to do so in bursts, as it's hard to find time.
I was actually just dating a girl who was all into the Intellectual Dark Web, big Sam Harris fan, and insisted that in spite of the outcome, it's okay and even necessary to Just Ask Questions, lest we embrace ignorance. I told her that making these kinds of distinctions reminds me of people who go out of their way to insist "it's not pedophilia, it's ephebophilia." They're not wrong, but I'll give them the side eye and wonder what their motivations are. Though in this case, it sounds like Murray really is wrong.
Anyway, I'm pretty sure she was all about this book, so I wish I could send this video to her. But she was a terrible and abusive person, so I cut her off completely.
There's two things I'd bring up with the "I'm just asking questions" types that tie directly into what you said.
Firstly, there's the fact the questions have already been answered. Yes, all scientific knowledge is contingent on future evidence, but when they phrase it like this they're acting as though we don't yet have enough evidence to base our behavior on, which is very much not the case. Go ahead, "ask the question" in the form of conducting a survey, but if you're trying to tell the average person on the street they need to "ask the question", you're not helping, you're hurting.
The second of course is the context of their questions. It's just like the ephebophilia people. The question to always ask yourself is "Why are they bringing this up in THIS conversatoin?". The people who bring up the Bell Curve and want to "ask questions" about links between intelligence and the genes for what we as a society consider "racial markers" always seem to bring it up when when we're talking about racial inequality. Once you see it, you can't unsee it, and it gives the game away. These people aren't proposing a study in an acedemic setting, they're offering it in the middle of a discussion about how to resolve societal issues. The pedo/ephebo stuff is the same way. They're not getting involved in an intellectual discussion about specific definitions as listed in the DSM-V, they're just reflexively shouting it out in online threads where people are- say- criticising "appealing to pedophiles" in a lot of Japanese media. Things that make you go "hmmm".
RE: For Whom the Bell Curves - Sacred Jellybean - 30th March 2020
Wanted to drop in here and thank you for posting the video. I finally finished it up maybe a month ago. I'm surprised by how many glaring errors are in the book, and definitely appreciative of the video's creator to have gone through all the legwork of reading the book, digesting it, and refuting its conclusions. Maybe I'll donate to him.