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So I was at a store here, and... - A Black Falcon - 12th May 2017
Financially perhaps I shouldn't have, but they had a used Zelda-themed Wii U, the one with Zelda art on it that I believe they released for WW HD, for only $160... and I got it. It came with the system and all accessories, I believe, unless the Wii U came with a sensor bar stand or system manual -- it didn't have those. It did have the system (32GB, and reset, so there was nothing on it), tablet (with the neat Zelda graphics on it, but a replacement touchpen), two curved things that serve as a system stand, system and tablet chargers, and powered and not powered system stands.
That price is pretty good for the Zelda edition, which costs over $160 on ebay. It's still expensive, but Wii Us have not gone down in price at all over the past few months even though the Switch is a hit; I was wondering if it would, but so far nope. As I've said before I've been quite conflicted about the Wii U v. Switch, as the Switch is something I certainly want and is selling great... but it would be a shame to never get a Wii U, and there isn't much software for the Switch yet for sure, so I'll get it sometime later. (Now, I would not have gotten a Switch now, I still haven't seen one and that'd cost twice as much as this did. But still I wouldn't get both close together, of course.)
I already had four Wii U games:
physical discs:
Disney Infinity 2.0 - I got this for the figures and stuff a few months ago, because it was quite cheap. Seems like a not-great port.
Rodea the Sky Soldier - This I got new when it came out because it came with the original Wii version in the package too. That is the original game and is by all accounts better than this 3DS version up-port, but it's nice to have I guess?
digital (from a Humble Nintendo Bundle I got last year):
Shantae and the Pirate's Curse - good platformer I've played on 3DS, so I doubt I'll replay it.
Affordable Space Adventures - This is a good indie game that uses the Wii U tablet fairly well. I'm liking it.
I didn't buy any games at the store I got the system from, but I did get a few more yesterday from some Gamestops (physical copies of course, all complete with case and such):
Super Mario 3D World - $18
Xenoblade Chronicles X - $25
Zombi U - $5
Star Fox Guard - $3
Nintendo Land - $3
(No, I haven't gotten the Wii U version of Mario Maker yet. I definitely will, based on the 3DS version I have it probably is one of the best games ever, but 3D World is pretty fantastic too and I want to play it first... and it costs a lot less than Mario Maker does.)
Now, even though 3D Land was one of the earlier 3DS games I got after I got the system back in fall 2015, but I didn't get all that far into it. It seems good as I said, though I thought that the 3DS version of Sonic Lost Worlds is just as good. This time though, while I only played the demo of Wii U Sonic Lost Worlds (and I know it also has a PC version, but I don't have it), Mario 3D World is better... though Sonic Lost Worlds looks pretty good too and I'll definitely need to get it. Anyway, comparing 3D World versus 3D Land, I'm liking it a lot more than that one; 3D Land is good, but this is great. I'd say it does four things better, and one worse -- better, the graphics are better, there are more levels, there are playable female characters (and indeed, playable characters other than just Mario), and such. On the other hand, the game isn't in stereoscopic 3d so, because it also has an isometric perspective most of the time, some jumps are harder to discern. But yeah, I finished world 1 and the game is great, maybe really great. For a system with a relatively short life, the Wii U does have a great (first-party) software library, in the platformer genre especially. It doesn't have a great, big open-world 3d platformer in the Mario 64 vein, I don't think, it just missed the comeback of that genre this year (Yooka-Laylee, Mario Odyssey, and such.), but other platformer genres are clearly very well represented here, and that's one major reason why I got the system -- I doubt that they'll all get 3DS or Switch ports. And on that note, Donkey Kong Country Returns Tropical Freeze will probably be one of my next pickups for this system. (The original DKCR is probably the best 2d or 2.5d platformer on the Wii...)
Anyway, the other game I spent some time with is Xenoblade Chronicles X, which some hours in I finally got to the main game of. It seems good, though it reminds me of that usual thing I notice with anime, that anime fantasy and anime sci-fi are so similar that you sometimes can't even tell the difference... because yeah, this game is more sci-fi than the first Xenoblade (or the Switch game, which goes back to fantasy), but anime fantasy has so much sci-fi in it that there is much less of a difference than you would get from Western games. Like the first game the auto-combat and skill system are very MMO-like, but that can be fun so it works. I can see the game getting repetitive, but the graphics are great and gameplay can be fun so so far I mostly like it.
As for the system itself, hmm... well, first, the tablet. Putting a map on the tablet may be one of the most common uses of the thing, but it's a good idea which makes ingame maps easier to use, as you see in Xenoblade Chronicles X. Having two screens is great for some kinds of games, as you see on the DS and 3DS, and even if it's just a map and inventory that's handy stuff (and yes, on another note, I don't have the game yet at least, but it's really too bad that Nintendo foolishly removed all tablet functionality from Wii U Breath of the Wild just to make the game play the same on both systems... they should have left in a map and inventory system on the Wii U Gamepad, at least! But anyway.)
But the Wii U gamepad (tablet) has multiple issues -- first, its battery life; it's no good to have your controller need to be plugged in every couple of hours! Yes, I know that thanks to the large screen and how battery technology is that is inevitable, but still it's not fun. Second, because of its size it is kind of heavy. I like large controllers -- the N64 controller and Saturn 3D controller are two of my favorite gamepads, and the original large ("Duke") Xbox controller is Microsoft's best controller, but this is a bit too much, perhaps. Third, that it takes a button press and then several taps to turn the gamepad off while leaving the system on -- ie suspend mode for the pad, basically --s instead of the simple "close the system" suspend of the DS line is clumsy. Additionally, and this is a definite issue, having this bright screen in front of me can be distracting, making it hard to focus on the game screen sometimes for something like Mario 3D World which just duplicates the TV on the controller screen. Since you unfortunately can't turn off the screen while using the gamepad as your controller, this makes me want a Pro controller for some games.
So I paired one of my Wiimotes with the Wii U, and it made the store and interface easier to use than it is on tablet or with the gamepad. On both the 3DS and Wii U the store especially seems to require motion or pointer elements some of the time, in ways you wouldn't think it would... it works, but sometime I have wished the stores would work well with both the buttons AND touch/pointer. It's great that they still have full pointer support in the Wii U, but while I do see some good elements of having a tablet in a controller, the Wii's controller concept is better.
So, with the original Wii, I still do not have a Classic Controller or CC Pro; I thought that the Wiimote + Nunchuck was great for almost all games, and most of the handful of games it isn't good for support GC controllers. The only genre which I might really want a classic controller for is fighting games, which I just avoided on Wii, apart from games actually designed for the system, such as Smash, etc., that is. The Wii Remote + Nunchuck setup has some drawbacks too, such as fighting games, games which really need four case buttons, and such, but I still do think, as I have all along, that it's a better controller than the Wii U Gamepad is. As I think I've always said, had the Wii U been a system focused on a more Wii remote-like controller instead of this tablet I'd probably have gotten one years ago. So, while I like the tablet some of the time, I think this time I'll need a pro controller... ah well.
On a completely unrelated note, it's odd that they put a SD card port on the front of the system... only for the original Wii mode, the Wii U cannot even see the thing. Huh? (And does it have the same "2GB max only, no SDHC or better" limitations as the original Wii does?)
Oh, as for the graphics, they're good. Nintendo's games look as good or better than anything on the PS3 or 360, which was the goal. Third-party software doesn't always meet that level -- see Disney Infinity 2.0, which is lower-rez on Wii U (and seems to have more framerate issues too) -- but the Wii U never got much attention at all from third parties so that's to be expected. Stuff like XCX and SM3DW look fantastic. One other reason I wanted a Wii U, beyond 'see the games that won't get Switch ports', was to finally get the last incarnation of the Gamecube hardware, and it's nice -- a small (compared to the PS3 or 360) but fairly powerful system which could have been more than it was, with some better decisions, marketing, etc. Ah well.
Oh... and you are absolutely right DJ (from a post of yours I remember from a little while back), those rounded-edges discs are amazing! It makes me wish all CDs/DVDs/etc. were like that... it's really too bad these awesome things are exclusive to this now-dead format. Too bad... but it does make Wii U discs nicer to hold than any previous discs.
Finally, I'm not sure what I should do for my Wii. Like, do I keep both the Wii and Wii U both hooked up, or transfer everything over to the Wii U, and use that for both the Wii and Wii U? The biggest issue with that is, the Wii U can't natively play Gamecube games and doesn't have GC memory card or controller ports, so I'd still need something to play GC games with... and since I do not have one of those ridiculously-expensive GC component cables, I don't really want to go back to my GC for that, and that means keeping the Wii plugged in. And if the Wii is plugged in, it's easier to just keep using it for Wii games, rather than switching to Wii mode in the Wii U for them. So right now I have one of my two Wiimotes with built-in Motion+ paired to the Wii, and the other to the Wii U. That works I guess, and pairing controllers isn't that hard though it can occasionally be annoying.
Maybe the thing that decides it is that apparently those Wii U/USB GC controller adapters do not work to enable GC controller support in Wii games played on the Wii U, at least not officially. Sure, most Wii games don't have GC controller support, but enough do that I'd definitely want the option when playing Wii games, and would never only use a system which doesn't support that if I have a better option. So yeah, theoretically the Wii U has one of the larger game libraries around thanks to BC, unless you use homebrew to add a lot more options it's mostly only good for Wii U games I think...
Overall though, so far the Wii U is great (small game library and controller issues aside). Should I have gotten a Wii U a year, or several years, ago? Probably... but I love classic games too, and don't regret most of the console purchasing decisions I've made. Like, what should I have gotten the Wii U instead of? The systems I got last year, maybe, but the stuff I got from 2013-2015 I don't regret for sure... and as for the 2016 ones, here I got a Wii U only 7 months after that PS3, so that's not too far apart.
So I was at a store here, and... - Dark Jaguar - 13th May 2017
Others might scoff at picking up a Wii U when the Switch seems to be the much more successful system, but frankly there are a LOT of great games on that thing. I've STILL got more Wii U games than PS4 games, for what that's worth. Third party support sucked, but if you just get it for playing Nintendo games, like a lot of the ones you just mentioned. I know you like Twilight Princess, so check out the HD remaster. The visuals didn't age nearly as well as Wind Waker, but it still looks pretty good. It looks like now's the time to get those Wii U games, since they're probably never going to be cheaper than at the dawn of a new console era when the previous one looks like a failure.
At this point, the Wii U looks like an incomplete or unrealized Switch to me, but it's still solid enough. I can only hope Miiverse gets brought over to Switch at some point, but that's one of the nicer features. Wind Waker HD benefits from it I'd say. I actually made the same choice you did and kept all my Wii software and saves on the original hardware. It's that lack of Gamecube controller support in my case. While that Gamecube component cable is ridiculously expensive, apparently there's now a few third party options in that regard, and due to heating issues I would recommend at least keeping those Gamecube memory cards unplugged when they're not in use rather than leave them in the Wii. The main reason I haven't picked up Mario Kart 8 DX is because other than Battle Mode and a couple characters (characters not really mattering as much in Mario Kart as in Smash Bros), it's pretty much the same game. I might pick it up JUST for that battle mode, but for now I'm still playing the Wii U version.
Anyway, try to pick up a Wii U Pro controller. It makes any game that doesn't make any real use of the Wii U pad much easier to play. The Wii U Pro controller also comes with a nice long USB cable, if you prefer them corded like I do.
So I was at a store here, and... - A Black Falcon - 13th May 2017
Dark Jaguar Wrote:Others might scoff at picking up a Wii U when the Switch seems to be the much more successful system, but frankly there are a LOT of great games on that thing. I've STILL got more Wii U games than PS4 games, for what that's worth.So do you have a lot of Wii U games then, or few PS4 games? Either way, sure, I can see that. Nintendo does make a lot of the best games after all. :)
Quote:Third party support sucked, but if you just get it for playing Nintendo games, like a lot of the ones you just mentioned. I know you like Twilight Princess, so check out the HD remaster. The visuals didn't age nearly as well as Wind Waker, but it still looks pretty good. It looks like now's the time to get those Wii U games, since they're probably never going to be cheaper than at the dawn of a new console era when the previous one looks like a failure.Are the remasters of WW and TP actually worth getting, considering that I have those games for GC? I haven't played WW in a long time, but I did start TP again a month or two ago, getting up to the Goron Mines in like eight hours. It's still one of the best games ever (in everything other than the issues I have with the story), and so amazing looking... but the GC version is great, is it really worth $45 for a version with presumably slightly better graphics, widescreen support, and the same controls apart from a map and inventory on the tablet? I don't know about that...
Quote:At this point, the Wii U looks like an incomplete or unrealized Switch to me, but it's still solid enough.Yeah, this seems to be the basic idea of what the Switch is -- it's the Wii U, but fully realized. The Wii U has both a console and a tablet... but because the tablet is streaming video from the console, its range is very limited. For instance, if I go over to my computer down the hall from my TV (not that far really)... nope, the Wii U Gamepad loses connection, don't go that far. You basically can only use it in the same room and slightly beyond, so it really is not a portable. (This is one more drawback of the Gamepad that I should have mentioned above, but forgot last night.) In comparison the Switch is both tablet and console. It looks like the Switch is only slightly more powerful than the Wii U is, but it's got all that in the tablet alone, no console needed! So yeah, 'Wii U but better realized'.
Quote:I can only hope Miiverse gets brought over to Switch at some point, but that's one of the nicer features. Wind Waker HD benefits from it I'd say. I actually made the same choice you did and kept all my Wii software and saves on the original hardware. It's that lack of Gamecube controller support in my case. While that Gamecube component cable is ridiculously expensive, apparently there's now a few third party options in that regard, and due to heating issues I would recommend at least keeping those Gamecube memory cards unplugged when they're not in use rather than leave them in the Wii.Not patching in support for the USB GC controller adapter into the Wii games which have GC controller support really was a mistake, why release that thing and then ONLY have it work with Smash? I mean, you can also use it on a PC for using GC controllers there, with the right driver, but still... I know many people (me included) strongly prefer to play Smash with a GC controller, but there is this other obvious use for the thing they should have included. Without it the Wii BC on Wii U isn't worth it for Wii owners, I agree.
Quote:The main reason I haven't picked up Mario Kart 8 DX is because other than Battle Mode and a couple characters (characters not really mattering as much in Mario Kart as in Smash Bros), it's pretty much the same game. I might pick it up JUST for that battle mode, but for now I'm still playing the Wii U version.Well, it's got all the DLC included, puts back in the real Battle Mode (though without N64 Block Fort for some insane reasion!), and has, if I remember, King Boo, the two Splatoon kids, and one or two more characters playable, but is otherwise the same. If they release more new tracks for it in new Switch-only DLC or something I imagine it'd be more valuable for people who have the Wii U game, but who knows. It's selling incredibly well on Switch, so we'll see I guess.
Quote:Anyway, try to pick up a Wii U Pro controller. It makes any game that doesn't make any real use of the Wii U pad much easier to play. The Wii U Pro controller also comes with a nice long USB cable, if you prefer them corded like I do.Yeah, I'll have to do that, once I find one at a sane price and not the $40 Gamestop wants for the things. Again I do think that the fact that you pretty much need to buy a (not included) controller even for single player is a negative about the system though, the original Wii was not like that.
So I was at a store here, and... - A Black Falcon - 16th May 2017
Mario 3D World is really, really fun. Awesome stuff.
So I was at a store here, and... - Dark Jaguar - 17th May 2017
It is! It was also great to see Nintendo break the mold just a little bit so Peach didn't have to be rescued for once. It's too bad Odyssey (which otherwise looks fantastic) seems set to bring things back to the status quo.
So I was at a store here, and... - A Black Falcon - 17th May 2017
Oh yeah, for sure. That's the most disappointing thing about Mario Odyssey by a wide margin! I thought that Nintendo was trying to be a little better on that kind of thing, as you saw with Mario 3D World, Donkey Kong Tropical Freeze, and such all adding female characters, but almost immediately afterwards Nintendo started backsliding -- see Mario Maker for instance, which is one of the best things ever but has "rescue Peach" as its only shred of plot, which it repeats infinitely -- and now it's even worse, since this one doesn't even have the 'but classic reference' excuse. Bah.
So I was at a store here, and... - Dark Jaguar - 17th May 2017
Tropical Freeze is really just feeding off female characters from previous games in the series (namely, one specific one), so it's hard to give it too much credit. Really though, the Country series in general has never had "rescue the damsel" as a plot in a single one of those games.
I mean, will Peach being a damsel in distress ruin Odyssey for me? Ha, no, I'm sure it'll still be great. It's just... you know, I had high hopes that Nintendo was moving on past that. I'm not expecting EVERY Mario game to let you play as Peach, just for them to put "save her" to bed for if not "forever" then "a good long while". Rescuing those androgynous fairies worked just fine. Heck, a basic plot would be "Mario saves the real world from Bowser". I mean, that works. He could make a few new friends if he's gotta have that "personal connection", but heck had zero connection to Peach in the first Super Mario Bros, so that's hardly strictly necessary. Heck, Kirby helps out basically every random stranger that shows up at his door step, and I've got no problems with him acting as a hero. I just feel sorry for Peach's voice actor. I'm betting she'd prefer to make general grunts and "hah" sounds than shouting "MAAARIO WHERE AAARRE YOU?" every game. I guess my biggest gripe is that I kinda expected Peachy Toadstool would be a regular playable character after Super Mario Bros 2. Sure, she got captured again near the end of SMB3, and AGAIN at the very start of World, but then Super Mario RPG made her a playable character again after playing around with the "captured" trope, and that Nintendo Power comic also put her in a major roll. I recall being pretty disappointed going from Super Mario RPG's story to Super Mario 64. Great game, and the origin of the collectathon, but after toppling a world devouring evil so great even Bowser had to team up with me to beat it, just kicking Bowser out of Peach's house seemed lackluster by comparison. I really don't need every Mario game to have a story as developed as the Mario RPGs, but put some twists on the story now and again! At least Zelda is trying!
So I was at a store here, and... - A Black Falcon - 21st May 2017
Splatoon is pretty good, I've been playing a bit of it each day in the few days since I got the game. It is somewhat addictive stuff, isn't it... I wish that Nintendo would have dropped the price, it's kind of crazy that it's still a $60 game for new copies so the used copies are also pricey, but I can't argue with the quality. The multiplayer is great fun; of the two (non-team-based, which I'll likely never be able to try) multiplayer modes, the main one where you pain the world does a good job of hitting that 'you need to map out everything' instinct of mine. Of course with the somewhat frustratingly short round timer trying to be thorough leads to not getting too far (forward in the map I mean) sometimes, but it's fun either way. :) As for the ranked mode, I like that that has some more varied objective types, but so far I've only seen one. It's good though. As for the single player, and that it has a single player campaign definitely was a factor to why I got the game, that seems good as well. Splatoon isn't amazing, I can see it getting repetitive after a while, but it's good and I like having it while there are still people playing; it's not hard to find a game.
Dark Jaguar Wrote:Tropical Freeze is really just feeding off female characters from previous games in the series (namely, one specific one), so it's hard to give it too much credit. Really though, the Country series in general has never had "rescue the damsel" as a plot in a single one of those games.I do think they intentionally added a female character back in to Tropical Freeze, though. Maybe they should get as much credit for that as they should be criticized for not having a female character in the first DKCR? Because apart from the DKC1/DKL1 all the other DKC (and DK64) games had female characters...
Quote:I mean, will Peach being a damsel in distress ruin Odyssey for me? Ha, no, I'm sure it'll still be great. It's just... you know, I had high hopes that Nintendo was moving on past that. I'm not expecting EVERY Mario game to let you play as Peach, just for them to put "save her" to bed for if not "forever" then "a good long while".Yeah, I also was really hoping that MAYBE Nintendo was finally considering moving on from their favorite very sexist storytelling trope, but no, here it is back again, and the female playable characters seem to be gone too. It's really disappointing, and will hurt the game (for me). Of course if it's amazing gameplay-wise it still could be one of the best games ever, but they need to stop using this kind of story, and as you say it's particularly unfortunate after seeing them finally take a few steps forward!
Quote:Rescuing those androgynous fairies worked just fine. Heck, a basic plot would be "Mario saves the real world from Bowser". I mean, that works. He could make a few new friends if he's gotta have that "personal connection", but heck had zero connection to Peach in the first Super Mario Bros, so that's hardly strictly necessary. Heck, Kirby helps out basically every random stranger that shows up at his door step, and I've got no problems with him acting as a hero. I just feel sorry for Peach's voice actor. I'm betting she'd prefer to make general grunts and "hah" sounds than shouting "MAAARIO WHERE AAARRE YOU?" every game. I guess my biggest gripe is that I kinda expected Peachy Toadstool would be a regular playable character after Super Mario Bros 2. Sure, she got captured again near the end of SMB3, and AGAIN at the very start of World, but then Super Mario RPG made her a playable character again after playing around with the "captured" trope, and that Nintendo Power comic also put her in a major roll. I recall being pretty disappointed going from Super Mario RPG's story to Super Mario 64. Great game, and the origin of the collectathon, but after toppling a world devouring evil so great even Bowser had to team up with me to beat it, just kicking Bowser out of Peach's house seemed lackluster by comparison. I really don't need every Mario game to have a story as developed as the Mario RPGs, but put some twists on the story now and again! At least Zelda is trying!"Save the kingdom from evil" is all the plot I've ever needed in a game. That was the basic plot of most of the games I imagined on paper as a kid, for example, because it's a good story that works! And looking at it today, it also benefits from not being frustratingly dated and sexist, either.
As for what you're saying here about Peach, you're right that she should have been playable in many more Mario games, definitely. Apart from Mario 2 (USA) I've never been much of a fan of Peach, but she is great in that game and she's good in Mario 3D World as well. Floating is the best! On a related note, Rosalina is great (and maybe my favorite Mario character) and should have been playable in both Galaxy games. There is no good reason for her not to be playable in both of them.
Of course I would (and have previously) written similar things about Zelda, who should have been playable in a whole lot more Zelda games but keeps getting stuck as the "rescue the princess" character because Nintendo is sexist. Ugh.
So I was at a store here, and... - A Black Falcon - 26th May 2017
First, one more complaint about the Wii U Gamepad (tablet) -- the screen. I've always heard that it's not the greatest screen, and after seeing it I see what people were talking about. When you look at that screen and then my TV, the difference is clear: the colors are bright and vibrant (and accurate) on the TV, but dull, lacking any pop, and sometimes maybe a bit off (is that Splatoon color blue or purple? On the TV it's bright purple, but on the Gamepad it looks blueish...). It's a huge difference. TN panels like the Wii U's tablet just do not have good colors, either in accuracy or in vibrancy!
On another note, I got MK8, so a bit about Nintendo and racing games these days. It's a beautiful and very polished game, but (to mention something I have complained about before) it's really frustrating that this was the ONLY first-party racing game on the Wii U! Nintendo's decision to abandon all racing games other than Mario Kart is really disappointing; the GC had a good selection of Nintendo racing games, though their N64 library was better, but at least the GC and Wii had some great stuff from Nintendo -- on the Wii, that being MK, two full 3d Excite games plus the classic-styled downlodable one, and such. Nintendo's refusal to make a new F-Zero game is perhaps one of the worst and most frustrating things about the company (seriously! F-Zero is incredible!), but there wasn't even a new Wave Race, Excite, 1080, Kirby's Air Ride, a new IP, anything. Just the extremely polished title that is Mario Kart 8... which, again, is a really great looking game with great gameplay and a lot of content, but as good as it is, Mario Kart has never been my favorite kind of racing game. It's very good, but too random to be one of the best. We need more than just MK. Maybe on the Switch Nintendo will finally deliver that? I'm not hopeful, since there hasn't been a racing game made by a first (or second) party Nintendo studio that isn't a Mario Kart game since the Gamecube, I'm pretty sure, unless you count minigames in titles such as the Wii Sports games, but it needs to happen.
I know the racing game genre in general is not as popular as it once was, which is obviously a big part of why they have cut back development in the genre, but if you don't make games you can't know if they would sell! And it's been quite some time since Nintendo has tried at all.
So I was at a store here, and... - Dark Jaguar - 26th May 2017
But, they DID try at all, with Mario Kart 8. There's a difference between scaling back on the genre and giving up on it entirely. I mean, I'm with you generally speaking, but you can't ignore how much they put into this latest Mario Kart game. It was a pretty big investment after all.
So I was at a store here, and... - A Black Falcon - 27th May 2017
Yeah, it was a big investment, and it is an incredibly polished Mario Kart game... but it is still a heavily luck-based Mario Kart (64)-style game, and while fun they are definitely not my favorite kind of racing games. Like, on the N64, as great as MK64 is I like three other first/second-party racing games, Excitebike 64, F-Zero X, and Wave Race 64, more. I am definitely one of those frustrated with Nintendo's refusal to make a new F-Zero game... but they taunt us with a few F-Zero-themed courses in MK8, etc. Gah.
So I was at a store here, and... - Dark Jaguar - 27th May 2017
I would prefer a few more methods for talented racers to avoid red shells and blue shells. That'd be nice, and I'm also not sure being able to store two items is an improvement on the Switch version. There's a few, but they seem to have intentionally closed the gap there. As it stands, the best possible method for dealing with blue shells at this point is to have such a strong lead that getting hit by one doesn't matter. I do think that the series could do better than that.
So I was at a store here, and... - A Black Falcon - 27th May 2017
So I was just playing MK8 for a while, and just like all Mario Kart games before it, it's such a terrible game in so many ways! The often almost purely luck-based gameplay is frustrating more often than it is fun, and the "if you get hit once at just the right moment you have to restart the whole 4-race-long circuit" is maybe even more obnoxious now than it was on the Super Nintendo. Yeah, the game is beautiful and plays well, but how often is that gameplay actually fun? In multiplayer, sure... but in single player?
So I was at a store here, and... - Dark Jaguar - 28th May 2017
Well, that's where I differ. I had great fun with this game, and think it's one of the best in the series. Yes, I think the red and blue shells have become more and more overpowered and unavoidable as the series has gone on, but the tracks and the handling are as good as they've ever been. They even brought back the coins as another thing to collect to make sure you're hitting top speed.
So I was at a store here, and... - A Black Falcon - 28th May 2017
Dark Jaguar Wrote:Well, that's where I differ. I had great fun with this game, and think it's one of the best in the series.It may be (currently MK64 is my favorite with MKWii probably in second, but I haven't played much of this yet), but all of the Mario Kart games are random like that to some extent so it's how the series works. Luck matters about as much as skill, frustratingly. And the 4-track-circuit design with no saving amplifies that issue in the single player mode because of having to repeatedly replay earlier tracks to get to the harder later ones.
Quote:Yes, I think the red and blue shells have become more and more overpowered and unavoidable as the series has gone on, but the tracks and the handling are as good as they've ever been.The handling in MK games has always been a bit too skiddy, though. It's worst in the first game (SNES SMK does not have good controls...), and newer ones give you more options to make things better with all the kart and wheel options, but still, tighter controls would be great. Most of the newer tracks are designed around the controls being as they are, admittedly, but it is an issue sometimes in some tracks, and in most of the SNES classic courses.
On that note, given how many changes they made to the "classic" courses in this game, wouldn't it be better to say that they are new tracks inspired by these classic tracks, rather than actual classic tracks? Heh. I like most of the changes, but they are hardly true to the originals.
Quote:They even brought back the coins as another thing to collect to make sure you're hitting top speed.What's good about coins? I've never liked them. In a game as luck-based as this, punishing you even further for the random chance of being hit, by taking away some of your speed in the form of coins, is inordinately cruel! My first impression would be that the coins make this game worse more than they do better.
So I was at a store here, and... - A Black Falcon - 3rd June 2017
So MK8... well I've been playing it, because MK is as much fun as it is annoying, and I finally unlocked all the characters now, and beat the cups up to 150cc. It's frustratingly random as MK always has been, but it is a good game... usually. The randomness is cruel more often than it is helpful, but skill matters somewhat. I'm not sure, though; so, in a recent interview, one of Nintendo's developers working on Arms said that if MK has a 50:50 balance between skill and luck, Arms is more 80 skill to 20 luck. Okay... but is MK actually 50% skill-based? I'm not so sure... yes, there is stuff to learn, strategies that will help you do better (mostly involving getting better at using the jump/powerslide), but luck always matters at least as much.
I also need to mention the frustrating unlock system. So, MK8 apparently unlocks characters at random. Each time you beat a cup in first place that you haven't gotten first in before, you unlock one of the 14 unlockable characters. Okay... but all I wanted was Rosalina, and the game was so incredibly cruel that she was the LAST character unlocked. I got all 13 others first. If that really was just luck, leaving which character you get to chance is kind of mean... "well just keep winning things, you never know... oh wait no, the one you want will be dead last" is annoying. MKWii's system, which requires you to do various things to get the various unlockable characters, has issues too because it requires you to play (and win) a lot more to unlock everything than MK8 does, but at least you know how to get each one.
On another note, the tracks. The new tracks are often pretty good, but looking at the classic tracks is interesting. In some cases they just brought over the old tracks, but in others they made significant changes, usually to make the tracks easier. MK8 is a hard game, but they are pretty consistent here at making some of the tougher parts of most classic tracks they bring in easier, and I don't know if that was necessary... I guess they want to focus the challenge on items and enemies more so than the courses themselves, and I can understand that, but was it a good move?
For example, Yoshi Valley might be my favorite track in Mario Kart 64, but here, with wider paths, easier shortcuts, and fewer areas with no walls, a lot of the challenge is gone, and that's a disappointment. Sometimes the reduced track difficulty is good -- see Donut Plains 3 below -- but in Yoshi Valley's case it hurts it. The same is true in Toad Turnpike. On the one hand, the wider road which gives you more space to stay away from obstacle vehicles, the new vehicles with jump ramps on them that let you go airborne, the hover sections along the sides of part of the track that let you avoid the carnage on the road, and that powerups now float down the road instead of only being in certain side areas off of the main highway lanes all make the track "more fun", but they also make it a lot easier. So, the new Toad Turnpike is fun, but it might be too easy... apart from the luck elements of "will a shell hit you randomly right before the finish line" and such, but that always could happen.
My least favorite track (not counting the DLC that I haven't bought yet, though I will) is easy: it's Donut Plains 3, and it's not often much fun. It's always been one of my least favorite tracks in Super Mario Kart, a game I think is okay but do not love; those stupid bridges are annoying! I think I gave up on beating the top speed class in SMK in the cup that includes this track, because it wasn't worth the frustration. Here in MK8 the track is easier than it is on SNES, since you can go into the water, but it's still hard. I actually managed to win it once, but otherwise rarely finish above fourth. As for SMK in general, Mode 7 can make for good games (F-Zero is one of my all time favorites!), but while SMK is a decent game its style of track design, full of tight turns thanks to how Mode 7 works, is frustrating when combined with MK's loose and skid/powerslide-heavy turning system. (MK Advance is presumably similar, but I still have never played that game.) You need to get used to turning (with R for powerslide) before it seems like you should in order to get around these turns, but it's still not a fun track. I like how the SNES/GBA tracks how have some small terrain height diferences as you go from the center of the track to the sides, they did a nice job of updating them to full 3d in that respect (well and there is one that now has a big hover section, but those mostly play the same anyway...), but the basic layouts are still the same.
And as for "N64 Rainbow Road", this thing barely resembles the N64 Rainbow Road track! Yes, it follows that courses' basic layout, but this version is now a one-way trip instead of the lap based course it is on N64, which is a big change. Additionally the moving chain chomps have been replaced with giant ones which just whack up and down on certain points in the track and make the track ripple. The opening section, with its big downhill followed with a climb, is also now pretty much gone, as you take to the air and fly over the section instead most of the time. And those are only the most obvious changes. I understand changing tracks to add in air/water/hover sections, but this one might have been changed too much.
As for my favorite track in this game... hmm. Maybe Thwomp Valley? It's a pretty fun track, and its music track is great too.
So, Arlo recently did a video review of the Switch version of this game, MK8 Deluxe, here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ko0KmGBYxkE Surprisingly he hadn't played a MK game since MK DS. IN that review I agree with some things and disagree with others, as usual for anything, but a couple of things stand out. First, I didn't realize that the battle mode in Deluxe doesn't have a standard "break the 3 balloons to eliminate the other player" mode! Why would they leave out such a basic, and essential, mode, and replace it only with a stupid timed mode instead? Timed works in some things, such as Splatoon (though it might be nice if there was also a 'lives' mode or something, more like the single player game, in multiplayer, as another mode on top of the regular ones), but in other games like Mario Kart battle mode, or Smash Bros. as Arlo mentions, it's terrible. I have never actually wanted to play a SSB game in timed mode, because just running around hitting people for a few minutes before being told who won isn't much fun at all. I've always found it odd that Nintendo defaults Smash games to Timed mode and not Lives, because why would someone actually want to play Timed mode? It's awful! Maybe it has a function if you have people of vastly different skill levels and you want a mode where everyone will be alive to the end despite that, but otherwise it has no real use... and that's all you get for the "return of standard battle mode" in MK8 Deluxe? That's pretty disappointing.
On the other hand, his complaint about local wireless limiting things to two players per Switch may be a technical or data-transmission issue or something, so I can excuse that one, and some of his other issues don't bother me much either; I do think there is enough to do in this game. Now, in the Switch version where all 14 of those unlockable character are unlocked from the start things are different, but trying to win all the circuits and get stars is still a draw. I will say though, I had completely forgotten about the challenge mode in MK DS, it might have been interesting if they had kept that around... not really necessary though. I also like that they brought back the Koopalings here, and in SM3DW. They aren't the best characters, but are more interesting than just "Bowser or Bowser Jr. again every time".
Anyway though, MK8 is both good and bad, depending on when you ask, so it's a Mario Kart game indeed. The visual shine and polish are impressive, though.
So I was at a store here, and... - A Black Falcon - 3rd June 2017
Oh, I played some MK64 a few days ago, to see what I think of it now; it'd been a while. The game's still fun, though the controls weren't as good as I remember them. I mean, it controls like a Mario Kart game, which is kind of skiddy. The graphics are also far from the system's best, though it's an early release so that's understandable. Otherwise it's still pretty good... though really, why lock the game up at the end of circuits, after the credits? Making people get up to hit reset just to play another circuit is kind of annoying. Ah well. Anyway, that's why most of my track comparisons there are for the N64 game, that's the only other one I've played recently.
And on that note, Royal Raceway is mostly the same in MK8 as it is in MK64, except for one thing -- in the N64 game, the ground cuts off fast towards the water on that last turn before the finish line. I fell in there several times when I was playing the game recently because I cut the corner a little bit too tight. But in MK8 there is a wider track (I think) and wider, not sloping shoulder between that and the water, so falling in is much less likely and I haven't come even close to it so far. Otherwise the track is about the same, apart from adding wings on the big jump, but it's a little thing I noticed.
Also, I was just playing the game online for a while, and that is fun isn't it, for a while anyway. Though I have the DS, Wii, and 3DS games I've only played them online a handful of times really, but maybe I'll play a bit more of this one than those? It is easier to set up, not requiring low security wi-fi like the DS or non-wired Wii, and the controls are better than the 3DS -- I mean, the 3DS is great, but that little analog stick, while good, doesn't quite match up to a full gamepad for games that use much analog precision like racers -- so this is a better option than the previous ones. I still doubt I'll play a lot of it online though. Somehow I've never really gotten in to online racing games like I did strategy games for a long time, or online RPGs (Guild Wars)... not sure why. It's fun in multiplayer though, even just online.