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+--- Thread: I... just... what is WRONG with you hill billies?! (/showthread.php?tid=6908)
I... just... what is WRONG with you hill billies?! - Dark Jaguar - 7th October 2015
I live in Oklahoma. Just to make it clear, Oklahoma wasn't even a state during the Civil War, and as such was neither part of the north or the south at that time (though plenty of fighting happened in that territory).
However, that hasn't stopped a bunch of Oklahoman idiots from flying the flag when Obama came to speak, them claiming "heritage". Yes, the idiocy of heritage claims is so strong that rednecks in states that weren't even PART of the confederacy claim it as part of that state's proud history. (And no, Oklahoma never flew this flag at the capitol in it's history.) I'm not even sure what the end game was here. Why Obama? What's he got to do with this flag?
http://time.com/3960867/obama-confederate-flag-oklahoma/
I don't even know how to tackle this one. I'm a bit disappointed that Time didn't bother to point out this glaring historical idiocy though.
I... just... what is WRONG with you hill billies?! - Weltall - 7th October 2015
That heritage is "we hate us some niggers", regardless of the state and its connections (or lack thereof) with a country that existed only because they really didn't want to stop owning black people as physical property.
I... just... what is WRONG with you hill billies?! - A Black Falcon - 7th October 2015
Oklahoma is right next to Confederate states, and is southwest of the North, so it's understandable that it'd have had Confederate sympathies during the Civil War. But as for people flying Confederate flags today, it happens everywhere in America really. It's definitely more common in the South, but you even see them here in New England once in a while...
I... just... what is WRONG with you hill billies?! - Dark Jaguar - 8th October 2015
ABF, you should know your history better than this. Oklahoma WAS NOT A STATE during the civil war. It was, in fact, native American territory. Native Americans did take part in hostilities in the region (most tribes taking the south's side if you can believe it) but that's got basically no bearing on this, because again, immigrant Americans weren't really living there. Oklahoma can't travel through time. It had nothing to do with the civil war.
However, you're right on at least one point. Oklahoma's location is to blame here. People who descended from confederates immigrated here, and it wouldn't take much for new generations to just assume Oklahoma was both a state and part of the confederacy back then. I still expect better of our site's own historian though.
I... just... what is WRONG with you hill billies?! - alien space marine - 8th October 2015
A Black Falcon Wrote:Oklahoma is right next to Confederate states, and is southwest of the North, so it's understandable that it'd have had Confederate sympathies during the Civil War. But as for people flying Confederate flags today, it happens everywhere in America really. It's definitely more common in the South, but you even see them here in New England once in a while...
We see them all the way up north of the border believe it or not..
During Canada's own westward expansion in the 19th century, the crown invited American cattle ranchers from the south to settle and develop the western prairies, which is why Alberta is often called "the Texas of the north", since it's got Cowboys and oil :).
I... just... what is WRONG with you hill billies?! - A Black Falcon - 9th October 2015
DJ, I didn't say Oklahoma was a state during the Civil War, you misread something. I don't know offhand when Oklahoma became a state, but I know it was after the Civil War.
I'm also not sure when Oklahoma was opened for white settlement instead of being reserved for Indians, I will admit that though... but I was thinking that I had heard that some of the indian tribes supported the South, so it works either way.
But for today, yeah, it's the location... though sadly you'll see some Confederate flags anywhere in this country, or Canada too I guess.
On that note, ASM, I didn't know people flew those awful things in Canada too. That's pretty sad... :(
I... just... what is WRONG with you hill billies?! - Dark Jaguar - 10th October 2015
It's true, some of the native tribes did support the south. The majority in fact, with on a small number of tribes supporting the north. Isn't that bizarre? One would think a little awareness of their own situation might make them opposed to what the south was doing.
I... just... what is WRONG with you hill billies?! - Weltall - 10th October 2015
Dark Jaguar Wrote:It's true, some of the native tribes did support the south. The majority in fact, with on a small number of tribes supporting the north. Isn't that bizarre? One would think a little awareness of their own situation might make them opposed to what the south was doing.
As I understand it, the tribes of Oklahoma had sympathies for the South because of lingering (and justified) bitterness over how the United States government treated them.
In the Timeline 191 books, the Five Civilized Tribes were important and respected citizens of the Confederate State of Sequoyah, where some hard fighting took place during the first world war, but the United States eventually conquers and annexes the state (along with Kentucky and parts of Virginia).
I... just... what is WRONG with you hill billies?! - Dark Jaguar - 11th October 2015
Hmm, is that book series about an alternate reality where the confederacy won the civil war?
At any rate, it's still pretty obvious that these hicks's claim to "history" has nothing to do with any native tribes.
I... just... what is WRONG with you hill billies?! - A Black Falcon - 11th October 2015
Really the Indians wouldn't have any good reason to want to support either side -- the Southern side are the people who exiled most of those indians from the South, and the Northern side are the government steadily taking over all native lands until by the 1890s it reached its inevitable conclusion, nothing left for the natives aside from reservations.
But yeah, that does have little to do with rednecks flying confederate flags because of "their heritage" (read: their dislike of minorities).
I... just... what is WRONG with you hill billies?! - Dark Jaguar - 12th October 2015
Kinda surprised you're calling them Indians there. Oh, and happy Columbus Day everyone! (That was meant ironically.)
I... just... what is WRONG with you hill billies?! - A Black Falcon - 12th October 2015
Dark Jaguar Wrote:Kinda surprised you're calling them Indians there.
I don't know, [American] Indian vs. Native American, you see both and both seem equally accepted in the US. The fairly new Smithsonian museum is called the Museum of the American Indian, for example. Of course up in Canada they are pretty much exclusively referred to as "First Nations" I'm pretty sure, but we don't really use that term in the US... and between Indian and Native American, there are plusses and minuses to each. Indian is obviously a misnomer as these continents are not close to India, but "native" isn't the kindest term in a historical context either, yes? Or do you think that there is a best term to use?
I... just... what is WRONG with you hill billies?! - Dark Jaguar - 12th October 2015
I'd heard all my life that "Native American" was the polite thing to say and that calling one an "indian" is pretty offensive. "Native" has some negative associations, but I've yet to hear any native Americans complain about being called... native Americans... Well, except maybe the "Americans" part, considering it was a bunch of weirdos from Europe that suddenly decided that's what both of these continents were now called.
All that said, I'm from Oklahoma, and lots of people here (myself included, I think I heard one time) have native ancestry if you go back enough. Also, Oklahomans tend to be a bit more sensitive in general on this topic than most Americans, I've found, but that's probably just due to how big a part of Oklahoma history it is, and how recent.
I... just... what is WRONG with you hill billies?! - Weltall - 13th October 2015
Aborigines?
I kind of like "First Nations", though it's not an accurate term.
I... just... what is WRONG with you hill billies?! - Dark Jaguar - 14th October 2015
That... uh... is both unwieldy and somehow sounds worse even than "engines".