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Dreamcast: A retrospective - Sacred Jellybean - 26th January 2015
![[Image: sx1Xkoj.jpg]](http://i.imgur.com/sx1Xkoj.jpg)
Share all your memories of Dreamcast in this thread.
Back in the day, I was a Nintendo-head. I loved N64 with such a loyalty that any competition was met with suspicion. When I heard about the Dreamcast, I didn't like it. N64 was getting its butt kicked by Sony as it was. More competition could only hurt. I remembered the SNES vs. Genesis days with still-fiery acrimony. Why was Sega was always such a dick? "We do, what Nintendon't?" Good sir, remove your hat and coat and let us finish this battle with the fisticuffs.
![[Image: 0fp2UKM.jpg]](http://i.imgur.com/0fp2UKM.jpg)
The most vivid thing I remembered in the early days was the graphics. They were so crisp and smooth, 60fps holy crap. Every time I saw a 3D model move on screen, it was just different than N64. More alive. Sega was always very strong at game design, and they brought us all those lush beautiful games with booming cities and wide open skies of azure. Sonic Adventure, Crazy Taxi, Shenmue, they all seemed so expansive and real.
![[Image: d9e7tl1.png]](http://i.imgur.com/d9e7tl1.png)
I was at a kiosk at a GameStop with my friend. "We have GOT to get this system," I told him. But it was only for show. My undying heart would go to Nintendo, I would never betray the kingdom that nurtured my inner-gamer child! But eventually, even I was turned around. September 9th, 1999, here it was.
![[Image: ZXwCXqV.jpg]](http://i.imgur.com/ZXwCXqV.jpg)
I loved Sonic Adventure, its ethereal worlds, its booming soundtrack. It brought the same fast-paced eye candy of Genesis. Here was Ecco the Dolphin, I would live my dream of being a marine animal going on adventures with all sorts of creepy underwater creatures. Crazy Taxi kept me occupied for hours, my buddy and I went through all the missions and trials and it was the good old days when you could play a game for hours and never get bored.
![[Image: vxNJnMs.jpg]](http://i.imgur.com/vxNJnMs.jpg)
I even subscribed to Official Dreamcast Magazine, what a defector! Every month would bring news for games, and even better, a demo cd. Here is how I learned about Jet Set Radio. It's style and sensibility were hip, something Sega was always great at capturing. What an innovative title, you would zip around a city on rocket-skates and tag walls with graffiti. The soundtrack was a mix of j-pop and hip-hop, the perfect background noise for your character's headphones. The game is narrated by Professor K., the DJ of the pirate radio station Jet Set Radio. He tells you like it is and fills you in on the rival gangs. He is perhaps most cartoony of all, large dreadlocks and a prominent nose ring as his puppet jaw flapped around and joked about the city's antics.
![[Image: IJZIJdl.jpg]](http://i.imgur.com/IJZIJdl.jpg)
Most fascinating of all was it's graphical style: every model had a thick line drawn around its Z axis. It gave the appearance of all its characters being drawn in a comic book come-to-life. You'd have to run from The Man, and got to meet a whole assortment of cool new dudes and dudettes for your spraypainting posse. (Hey, give me a break, I'm trying to capture the late 90s here).
![[Image: nd3pJqx.jpg]](http://i.imgur.com/nd3pJqx.jpg)
The demo was great, and I bought the title on it's launch date. And it still holds up to this day. Each component – sound, character design, gameplay – blends so well together that you can play it and see how clear a vision its creators must have had. Much kudos to SmileBit for this wonderful game.
![[Image: dXFHcAI.jpg]](http://i.imgur.com/dXFHcAI.jpg)
I even wrote a review it for my high school paper. I wish I still had it, I would post it here. :D I recall a line of it saying "Those wacky Japanese game devs are at it again!" and someone underlined it with a red marker and wrote down, "Appropriate??" Fair game, phantom editor. Though, it ended up making the cut. I was told later that a token Asian person was present, and asked for counsel. They shrugged and said they weren't personally offended.
Have some songs from the soundtrack!
One game I never played back in the day is Shenmue. Naturally, I ordered it. Today, I got this message...
![[Image: xrpnJl0.png]](http://i.imgur.com/xrpnJl0.png)
![[Image: qXmDtRs.png]](http://i.imgur.com/qXmDtRs.png)
Dreamcast: A retrospective - Dark Jaguar - 26th January 2015
The jump from the N64/PS1 to the Dreamcast was the biggest graphical leap 3D ever made. It was just stunning, to everyone involved. From there, games on the PS2 and Gamecube went on to shock us all the more. I think it was the jump from obvious block video game graphics to smooth "rounded" fully articulated character models. Yes, graphics have come a long way since then, but I distinctly recall that no generational "jump" ever had the same jaw dropping shock that the Dreamcast generation heralded. In fact, I recall being somewhat disappointed when I first saw the earliest 360/PS3 games, in that they weren't the "jump" I had come to expect each generation (the jumps from Atari to NES, NES to SNES, and especially SNES to N64 were really stand-out moments). These days, each massive jump in power just adds more and more texture layering and lighting tricks and so on to games. Over time they add up (Destiny, graphically, makes Halo look positively Amish), but we'll never see such incredible leaps again.
Dreamcast: A retrospective - A Black Falcon - 26th January 2015
I got a N64 in September '99, instead of a Dreamcast. Never regretted the choice, though of course I wished I could have afforded both. I finally got a Dreamcast in August 2007; it was the second 6th-gen console I got, after the Gamecube (which of course I got right after launch in November '01). Great system for sure, lots of outstanding games!
Quote:The jump from the N64/PS1 to the Dreamcast was the biggest graphical leap 3D ever made. It was just stunning, to everyone involved. From there, games on the PS2 and Gamecube went on to shock us all the more. I think it was the jump from obvious block video game graphics to smooth "rounded" fully articulated character models. Yes, graphics have come a long way since then, but I distinctly recall that no generational "jump" ever had the same jaw dropping shock that the Dreamcast generation heralded. In fact, I recall being somewhat disappointed when I first saw the earliest 360/PS3 games, in that they weren't the "jump" I had come to expect each generation (the jumps from Atari to NES, NES to SNES, and especially SNES to N64 were really stand-out moments). These days, each massive jump in power just adds more and more texture layering and lighting tricks and so on to games. Over time they add up (Destiny, graphically, makes Halo look positively Amish), but we'll never see such incredible leaps again.I know a lot of people feel this way, but I never have. I mean, yeah, the DC has nice graphics when games actually push the hardware, but so many DC games look like PS1 or N64 games with higher framerates, better textures, and maybe a few more visual effects... I don't know, I love the Dreamcast, but not for its graphics.
Dreamcast: A retrospective - Sacred Jellybean - 26th January 2015
DJ, I feel exactly the same way. I want to recapture that feeling with the PS4, so I hope to see more photorealism as in P.T. At least the industry has gone in other cool directions: wiimote, eye toy, dual screens on handhelds, etc.
ABF, what did you love about the Dreamcast?
Dreamcast: A retrospective - A Black Falcon - 26th January 2015
Quote: ABF, what did you love about the Dreamcast?
The games, of course. Nintendo has always been my favorite console manufacturer, but Sega's always been second on my list. I may not have owned Sega consoles in the '90s, but I probably played more Genesis than SNES (because more of my friends had the Genesis, while of course I only had PC and Game Boy before getting that N64), and I loved the Genesis Sonic games, then and now. But I always thought of Sega as second, so, like, I wanted a Game Gear and Game Boy, but got the Game Boy... and then wanted a N64 and Dreamcast, but got the N64. I'd have gotten both for sure if I had the money. I did get Sonic 3 & Knuckles Collection for the PC (the Genesis games, ported over) somewhere in '99 or '00, though, and loved it of course.
Anyway, the DC's library is loaded with great, great games! Sega made so many great games for that system in such a short time, and third-party support was pretty solid as well. The DC has a really, really good software library. I like the controller too; it's not as good as the Saturn 3D controller, but it is good. The system's hardware design is also really, REALLY cool; the DC is one of the best-looking consoles ever. I like the Dreamcast more than the PS2 or Xbox for sure, though of course I am quite biased against Sony. (Sony's evil! As for the Xbox, it's good, but too many of its games are either multiplatform or also on PC for me to consider it great. Sega's Panzer Dragoon Orta is my favorite Xbox game... great game.) Dreamcast graphics don't match up to the GC, Xbox, or (image quality aside) later PS2, but the gameplay does. The DC has lots of great 2d fighting games too, something which died off pretty much immediately after the DC did.
As for the graphics, though, my standard for 6th gen graphics is of course the Gamecube, and the DC is very far behind the GC graphically. I know that the DC released more than 2 two and a half years before the Gamecube (in Japan, where both first launched), but still, it's far behind. Sure, some games do a better job than average at pushing its hardware, but that DC games such as Rush 2049 which really look almost the same on N64 apart for framerate, visual effects (lights, reflections), and resolution (screen and texture resolution) got praised for their visuals says a lot.
The Dreamcast IS a generational leap above the N64, and sure, I was impressed back in '99 when I first saw Sonic Adventure, but it really shows that Sega had to release the thing too early. The DC's biggest problem, graphically, is that its maximum polygon counts are only a fraction of what the Gamecube, Xbox, and PS2 can do. The absolute best anyone ever got out of the Dreamcast is maybe 3 million polys a second, and few DC games get up to that level; the only one I always see mentioned is Le Mans 24 Hours. That game looks great, just as good or better than any early PS2 game for sure, but compared to Gamecube or Xbox games, it doesn't match up... and the PS2, while it started off with some ugly games and has awful image quality, CAN put just as many polygons on screen as the GC or Xbox -- all three can get into the ~15+ million polys range.
That limitation can't be helped for a system that released in December 1998, but Sega was only in the position of having to launch too early because they'd messed things up so badly in the mid '90s (32X, Saturn, Dreamcast). Unfortunately for them, DC didn't sell well enough... and as we now know, Sega needed the DC to be a massive hit in order to survive as a hardware manufacturer, because they just didn't have the money to stay in. They never had as much money as Nintendo, and when they did make money they wasted it (unlike Nintendo, who always has focused on profits and remaining debt-free). Really, on a financial level, it's kind of crazy that the Dreamcast released at all, but Sega was too stubborn to give up without one last try.
Yes, I've been criticized quite a bit on other forums for my opinion on Dreamcast graphics. :p But darnit, so many DC games really do look like enhanced last-gen titles... and that max polygon count is a problem that would have held back the DC had it lived longer, though of course I'm sure you'd see more games that look more like Test Drive Le Mans than the early DC titles.
Dreamcast: A retrospective - Dark Jaguar - 26th January 2015
SJ, do you recall being outright shocked playing Luigi's Mansion for the first time? I was like "It's like watching Wallace and Gromit, right there!" and then I opened a door and was all "THAT was a load time! There was no load time! It's the future, and we'll never have load times again!"
...3DS cartridge games have load times by the way...
Dreamcast: A retrospective - A Black Falcon - 27th January 2015
But N64 games didn't have load times, so how was Luigi's Mansion so different there? Nintendo tried hard to minimize load times on the Gamecube. It is indeed too bad that even they have since failed at it. (It's also too bad that Luigi's Mansion wasn't a very interesting game.)
Dreamcast: A retrospective - Sacred Jellybean - 28th January 2015
Eternal Darkness had good load times too you ol' sourpuss.
Quote:SJ, do you recall being outright shocked playing Luigi's Mansion for the first time? I was like "It's like watching Wallace and Gromit, right there!" and then I opened a door and was all "THAT was a load time! There was no load time! It's the future, and we'll never have load times again!"
I didn't play much of Luigi's Mansion but yeah, the graphics were great. The characters finally looked like the rendered models on the manuals! For Mario Sunshine, I did notice a drop between the cutscenes (FMV) and gameplay. I remember being a hardass when I was playing Star Fox Adventures, carefully zooming the camera in on the character and panning around it. I wanted to affirm that the nice fur shading they did for the cut scenes was also present during gameplay. You know, so I could enjoy the game.
That was the least of the game's problems, I can usually force myself to finish a game but I'll probably never plop in SFA again. Maybe when I'm an old man. There's a reason I keep these things around dammit!
But on the topic of next-gen graphics, I remember being enamored with screenshots from Silent Hill 3. "Holy crap, look how good it looks, how is that possible, I want a PS2 I wish I wasn't a Nintendo fanboy :(" Well, that and I only had time/money for so many games. Now that I've played the game... eh. Worst one up to that point. It wasn't bad, but they tried so hard to be scary that it pushed it to the point of tedium. Christ, room-after-room, then some lame brief cutscene that doesn't explain anything, ugh. When does this game start? It's all a blur. Good for a series of creepy moments, but fuck that slog.
Silent Hill 1's grainy graphics work perfectly for the nightmarish feeling of the game. The second iteration of the series has a better story, but did not resonate with me the same way. I'm playing through SH1 for maybe the fourth time, and even 15 years later it STILL floors me, whereas I think I beat SH2 once and ended up youtubing the rest of the endings.
Weltall, do you have a link to your novelization of... um, it was the 2nd game, right? I think that one was your favorite.
Shattered Memories is up there, probably neck-in-neck with Silent Hill 2.
Anyway, this went off on an ABF-esque tangent.
Dreamcast: A retrospective - A Black Falcon - 28th January 2015
Eternal Darkness is my favorite game of that generation, so I guess I don't mind load times. :p
As for GC games and graphics, though, it's Rogue Leader that really impressed me the most, for sure, around launch!
Dreamcast: A retrospective - Sacred Jellybean - 7th February 2015
Shenmue has not aged well. I appreciate the effort by Sega. This was a pioneer in its time. Still, the bar has been raised with open world games. The game tries to be cinematic but poor voice acting tanks the effort. It's fun to explore and talk to people but this game is more impressive as a technical demo IMO. The story is cliched, hopefully it picks up.
Graphics are good for that generation but look dated now. Ryo's face is well rendered but making him run gives the player a feeling of being a puppet master to a mechanical figurine. That is, they didn't nail down the posture as feeling human. Ryo's footsteps clank like his legs are porcelain.
Still, it's a fun trip down nostalgia lane. For, uh, a game I never played.
Dreamcast: A retrospective - Dark Jaguar - 7th February 2015
Shenmu does still top other efforts in the sheer depth of what you can interact with though. GTA basically offers nothing in the way of interacting with objects. Games like Fallout and such do better, in that you can generally shove everything you see into your pockets, but Shenmu has the greatest level of interaction with those objects, with full "pick it up and spin it around, and open it" going on. I can't think of any games that have matched the level of that FREE system.
Dreamcast: A retrospective - Sacred Jellybean - 7th February 2015
I guess that's true but it seems limited in what you can do. Ryo's house has the most things you can interact with but all I've done is switch lights on and off, open drawers and shut them, taken down paintings and restored them. It doesn't offer much in the way of gameplay.
Now fallout, you got my attention. I never played any of them but my buddy just gave me his old 360 and the fallouts (and other goodies). Can't wait to play them, I just need a new power cord. Oh, and bioshock, here I come baby
Dreamcast: A retrospective - A Black Falcon - 9th February 2015
Given my general lack of interest in open-world games, it's probably understandable that while I have owned Shenmue for a while now, I haven't really played it much because it's quite clearly not my kind of thing at all...
Dreamcast: A retrospective - Sacred Jellybean - 10th February 2015
Did you acquire it just to collect it, or did you intend on trying it out? Do you have a dreamcast?
Dreamcast: A retrospective - A Black Falcon - 10th February 2015
Of course I have a Dreamcast, I got one back in summer '07. But yeah, I got the game just to have as much as anything... it's one of the most-praised DC games, I thought I should have it (and try it someday) even if I doubt I'd like it.
Dreamcast: A retrospective - Sacred Jellybean - 12th February 2015
If you ever play it and it doesn't work, try turning it upside down.
![[Image: ecnsWpb.jpg]](http://i.imgur.com/ecnsWpb.jpg)
We ordered a copy and eagerly plugged it in. No dice. Only disc 3 worked. So we complained and ordered a new copy. This time only disc 2 worked. Very frustrating. Couldn't it at least have been disc 1 so we could start the thing?!
So I looked online and apparently this problem is not uncommon. Some suggested turning it upside down and presto! I could... explore Ryos house before it crapped out again.
As luck would have it, my ol lady had a dreamcast lying around her family's house. Practically untouched. Ho yeah!
Watched that fucking long opening three times before I could save.
Dreamcast: A retrospective - A Black Falcon - 12th February 2015
That must mean that your DC laser is dying. It happens to lasers eventually. :(
Dreamcast: A retrospective - Sacred Jellybean - 12th February 2015
Sadness :( maybe I ought to buy another backup system. Hate to lose this magical console. Sega's final hurrah.
Dreamcast: A retrospective - A Black Falcon - 12th February 2015
For some odd reason, the launch Dreamcasts might be more reliable than the later ones... is your system a model 0, or later? (The model number is in a circle on the label on the bottom of the system. Should be a 0, 1, or 2.)
I'm sure that the laser can be at least temporarily improved (re-align laser pots, to make it work better for at least a while), but I'm not sure if the DC has a replacement laser easily available. CD lasers do eventually go bad. The original PS1 model is particularly infamous for how quickly its disc drive started not working. Others are better.
As for me, I only have one system with a dead laser -- my launch Gamecube. Its laser died in 2006, and I got another one. I still have the bad one, though, if I can ever find someone to fix it and want that done (the replacement system still works fine, though).