Terminator Salvation - Printable Version +- Tendo City (https://www.tendocity.net) +-- Forum: Tendo City: Metropolitan District (https://www.tendocity.net/forumdisplay.php?fid=4) +--- Forum: Ramble City (https://www.tendocity.net/forumdisplay.php?fid=44) +--- Thread: Terminator Salvation (/showthread.php?tid=5269) |
Terminator Salvation - A Black Falcon - 23rd May 2009 Had a chance to see this today in the theaters, so I did of course. It was quite good... not T2 good for sure, but quite good. Great sci-fi action movie. I'd definitely recommend it... :) (I could say more, but do I want to spoil anything?) Oh, James Rolfe (AVGN) did a review of it through Cinemassacre. It's linked in the AVGN thread. He doesn't spoil much, so watch that if you haven't seen it. Terminator Salvation - alien space marine - 31st May 2009 I don't get why people are bashing this movie?? I went in with lower expectations due to the weak Box office performance on the IMDB chart but I am surprised to say Its a phenomenal film and the critics are being overly judgmental on it!! People were saying its worse then T-3 which is complete rubbish!! This one is vastly better then the previous film since its plot is not a rehashing of the first two. I'd give it a 8.5 out of 10 I found that Yelchin & Sam Worthington gave the strongest performance of the cast, Yelcin's "Kyle Reese" has the same charm as Michael Biehn except just younger. Bale did the job,His Conner lacked the wittiness of Edward furlong's. The question for me is will there be another film? It never reached number 1 in the U.S and is sliping down the charts. Terminator Salvation - A Black Falcon - 31st May 2009 Yeah, I have no idea where the criticism is coming from either. It was a pretty good movie, lots of fun and well worth watching. Good action, interesting characters, tension and questions (which way is he going to choose to go... human or machine...)... good stuff all around, as I said I had no major complaints, and definitely left liking it. Great CG work too, some nice car/bike chases, helicopters, explosions, Arnie (not new footage evidently, but awesome anyway)... what the heck is there to attack so much? As I said it's no T2, but it's a good, solid movie anyway for sure. Hopefully there will be another one... Terminator Salvation - Dark Jaguar - 31st May 2009 I hated that ending. "Humans have a HEART, that makes us better than you stupid robots, who don't have hearts!" This is coming from the guy who, as I recall last I saw him (missed T3), was CRYING OVER A ROBOT THAT LEARNED THE VALUE OF LIFE AND SACRIFICED ITSELF FOR HUMANITY! Terminator Salvation - A Black Falcon - 31st May 2009 True, those two points are a bit incongruous... there's no sign of the 'better computer' here like there is in T2 or the Sarah Connor Chronicles TV series, apart from Marcus who chooses good because he's part human more than anything, it seems. Still, Marcus clearly is the character taking that role here... they do have a bit of a different focus, but I thought it worked well. I mean yeah, it is a bit funny to focus so literaly on the heart when that should be more a symbolic or figurative mark of humanity, but it worked well enough, and the symbolism was still there, if kind of buried under the literal interpretations the movie puts on top. And anyway, the 'good computers' are only that way because they were programmed to like humans instead of kill them. Here, he rejects it because of his beliefs, not programming... machines can't really defy their orders and choose their beliefs. People can. That's part of the point, I think. Still though, it is true that Arnold in T2 grew beyond just his 'protect John Connor' thing, and we didn't see that from the robots this time. This was a war movie though, focused on big-ticket battles and stuff, and an android. I don't know if that was needed. What they've got instead is a related, but somewhat different, plot that is clearly in the same line as the one in T2... and I thought it was just fine. Terminator Salvation - Great Rumbler - 1st June 2009 It has its share of faults, but it was still a fun action movie. Terminator Salvation - alien space marine - 1st June 2009 Terminator Salvation - A Black Falcon - 1st June 2009 Yeah, the ending it ended up with is better. Terminator Salvation - lazyfatbum - 3rd June 2009 hahaha ass movie is ass, I wonder when they realized it was going to suck. It had to be somewhere around 'Oh, we got McG as the director." or the totally shit toys. The T2 toys were incredible and the Todd McFarlan collectibles, no contest. But this whole thing is like one huge badly produced commercial with the occasional neat idea that ultimately gets flat. T1 and 2 (yeah while 3 wasn't jaw dropping at least they knew not to fuck with what makes the series awesome), they worked so well because they kept it so limited. There was no epicness IN the FILM, it was in your imagination, in the negative space between the lines, it was one on one survival and that made it so, so easy to infer things and make us feel like we're actually in this war in time. For shits and giggles I watched the future scenes from Kyle's flashbacks and the war scenes from T2 3-D and imagined the new movie.... and holy shit was I disappointed. And holy god the music.... hello? Where's the TERMINATOR THEME in the TERMINATOR MOVIE? would you make Jaws 7 without the JAWS THEME? WOULD YOU MCG? YOU FAT HICK. Calling this a decent action flick is like saying that Perfect Dark Zero was a decent video game - there are *standards* to live up to and surpass. At the very least, you maintain the watermark. This movie is shit, though i'm sure only the nerdiest of people will agree. Enjoy your popcorn enema, America. Terminator Salvation - lazyfatbum - 3rd June 2009 Dark Jaguar Wrote:I hated that ending. "Humans have a HEART, that makes us better than you stupid robots, who don't have hearts!" Exactly. This is a poorly written film and after watching the review up there I realized he has hitting sarcasm pretty well with "I dunno, it felt like they had to re-write the ending because it tested badly" and so I googled some info, turns out that's exactly what happened. They were re-writing scenes ON SET. ON SET. DURING THE FILMING OF THE MOVIE FUCK SHIT It's okay though, as far as i'm concerned the events after T2 are all entirely up for grabs once the research center is destroyed. You could make 5 different versions of T3 or T4 and all of them would be equally correct. My idea would have been so breakneck kick ass... it would have ended the story, but it would be awesome. First, we let the audience in the whole time line problem. T1 original timeline = John knows that when the Terminator is sent back in time that he still exists, John is fine. So the Terminator must have failed because John exists. Sarah, a young, beautiful woman got married and knocked up by Daddy X (Not Reese) and everything happened as planned. But how did that make John in to the savior? Oh yes, how indeed. What sparked the need to send Reese? John's Mother was killed at some point after she gave birth. Now, in the future, John finds a way to save his mother and sends Reese back to protect her. He knows this will alter time... John is a smart motherfucker. John probably has access to computers where he can direct these events in to cohesive battle strategies. Sending Reese, sparks several changes: - Reese is now John's dad - The Endo arm and chip left behind jumpstart the series of events that lead to the war, causing the war to erupt in 2012. Keep in mind, had John or Skynet never interfered with time, John and Skynet would still exist. This is because of the ideal that once a time machine is invented, even if its theory (that works) is put in to motion, all of the events that would have been altered by that time machine over the period of its existance *already happened* at the moment the time machine is first switched on. - Reese gave info to Conner from the future which she will give to her son to tell Reese in the future and blah blah, John is planting a seed (quite literally) T2 original timeline -> In the future, the war still happens, it HAS TO happen. If it doesn't, nothing will exist. A T-1000 is sent back to kill 13 year old John. Skynet knows the T-800 failed and has absolutely no regard for time paradox, it just wants John dead (why is killing him so important? Read on!). John, though, still lives after it's sent, so in the future, John knows the T-1000 fails. Yet he sends a T-800 back, why? Because again, in this time line his mother was killed. So in the future, John is living a life where his mom died when he was 13 at the hands of a T-1000 and hid like a frightened baby. He sends back a re-programed T-800. Come with me if you want to live, his purpose was not only to protect John but to save Sarah's life. Shit hits the fan because: - Terminator tells Sarah that Cyberdyne creates Skynet. Because in HIS time, Cyberdyne is the company that used the tech found in the arm and the chip from T1. But had that Terminator NOT been sent, Skynet would STILL be active in the future which means Skynet is built by either Cyberdyne or a different company, or the military, but either way it still happens. In THIS timeline, its from Cyberdyne. So Sarah, of course, seeks to destroy it all. BUT, and this is a huge but, John (IN THE FUTURE) knows that his mother's actions will have no impact and the war will still happen, but he WANTED Sarah to destroy Cyberdyne so the ORIGINAL company creates Skynet and gets that anomaly back on track. Why would John do this? - The T-1000's influence in the time line was nothing, other than killing John's mom. Nothing from the T-1000 was found or preserved or studied so other than some security cam shots it didn't influence the flow and guidance of technology or Skynet other than the FBI and police looking for the human that was the T-1000 because John lives. so the T-1000 was either destroyed by John or by the military or John simply outran it. John knows this in the future - He is basically completely unafraid of anything the T-1000 does and instead is using it as a precursor for his plans. What are his plans? This is where it gets slap forehead awesome. T3 - Hoo boy. Now John is watching from the future and seeing himself grow, he has strengthened his identity. He maintained his mother's life so she can die when she's supposed to in order to finish John's training and all of the important information that John needs in the future (information, I might add, is from the future, that's important). Now in T3, we learn that an older John is killed by a T-850. His wife reprograms the Terminator and uses it to do what? 'Protect John from the TX."? Nope. The wife knows that the TX will fail because John lived a long life after the TX was sent. Wife will keep that from happening by sending the T-850 back to tell John that he will be killed by a T-850 (the same one he's looking at) and alter that timeline. This will secure John's place and give him new info to again alter the timeline even further and all of it... was designed by John. In the original timeline, Sarah gave birth to John and lived a normal life. Judgment Day happened, nuclear winter, all of it. And John was a perfectly normal, weak man. He hid, he cowered, he had nothing and was nothing. He was a face among the masses of survivors. This John witnessed his mother's death shortly after his birth as Sarah in the original time line was killed by a T-800 who, after killing her, thought he had fulfilled his duty and went to go sit in a cave somewhere. This John, with no leadership skills, no military training, no previous knowledge of the war, Cyberdyne, the military, Skynet, anything... found his way in to Skynet's time machine where he made the decision to undo the events of the past in the most brilliant stroke of genius ever conceived to take down the Juggernaut of Skynet. With his ideas and the capabilities of a time machine, he grows confident in his plans. He knows he will survive, but he is going to build himself over again, he is going to undo and redo an entire lifetime of events to remold himself and the entire series of events leading up to his current state. His first plan of action is to send back Reese to 1984, after that interaction John gauranteed himself strength. Now instead of being a weak man, he is a trained man, a better man. His mom died when he was 13 he recalls now. So again, that can be fixed and sends back a T-800 to protect his mother and carry new information for Sarah and young John. Cybderdyne was never to blame, it simply stumbled on tech that boosted our knowledge base sooner than later. But it had to be undone, so it went back to the military. This is important to preserve the future and to keep things on track and now we get to why Skynet hates John so very, very much. John's wife sends back the T-850 so the future where he's killed never happens. Instead, John sends a soldier back, again. But this time when Skynet detects the time machine being used, it destroys the time machine because it figures out that all paradox has been crushed and nothing it does will change the fact that John is here, today, as the now superman he is, successfully raised with incredible training and knowledge of future events carefully plotted out. The soldier he sends infiltrates the US military, not to shut down Skynet or destroy the branch of military, remember: The war must happen, Judgment Day must happen. But what he will do is quite simply work there and add a virtually undetectable smudge on Skynet's programing. By doing this, John leads his men in to Skynet, relying on that broken strand of programing to shut it down entirely and become the savior of man kind. No broken time anomalies, no destructive paradoxical issues. The war ends almost as soon as it starts and though there is nuclear fallout and years of rebuilding a head, there is hope. In the last moments of the film, John stands at the massgraveyards, the tombstones in front of him reading Kyle Reese and Sarah Conner. His wife slowly takes him by the hand, his young daughter takes his other hand and John whispers "Thank you" to his mother and father, before picking up his daughter and embracing his wife to tell them that it's finally over. Man has overcome the machine. Fucking eat my shit from my asshole McG you faggot. Terminator Salvation - alien space marine - 6th June 2009 The way I see it, Everything that came after T-2 is up to the individual fan to decide whither or not its canon,If you Don't like t-3 and 4, Well you got the television series parallel continuity. Or you can make up your own like Lazy just did, here is my take on things. What if Sarah Conner was not the mother of the original John Conner? In the first alphaverse that existed before the cycle of time paradoxes began. Lets say that in the first unaltered Alphaverse, Judgment day happens in 2003 , Cyberdyne and the defense department co create Skynet on their own without the help of the original T-101 edoskeleton and machinery. Kyle Reese is born in 1998, By 2030 the war nears its end thanks to a crucial victory lead by Colonel John Albert Conner whose forces destroy the central complex of Skynet but he soon dies later of mortal wounds sustained in the siege, Skynet laboratory just completes its time displacement device when the war is more or less a lost cause and in a last ditch effort to preserve itself skynet sends the T-101 back in time to eliminate Colonel Albert Conner from history in the hopes that it could create a new universe were it was victorious rather then accept total defeat. Skynet is forced to hastily rush its chrononautical plans to deploy before its ready because the resistance is already charging the gate of the time lab, The Terminator is sent a year before the desired date of 1984. Both the resistance and skynet don't know where Colonel Albert Conner's mother's residence was in 1984 just that she gave birth to John that year and lived in LA. This sets into motion the creation of the divergent strings in time creating a new universe or timeframe I will call the beta-verse, As it is impossible to rewrite history you can only make new turn off points on the temporal highway, Skynet knows this but the resistance is clueless about quantum psysics and mistakenly believe their history is in jeopardy so they send Lieutenant Kyle Reese to pursue the terminator sent into the past string of history. The Terminator is ordered to kill every Sarah Conner in the phone book in 1983 , It succeeds in killing the alphaverse Colonel Albert Conner's mother preventing his existence but both Reese and the Terminator are not aware of that. <object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/zQ4OXvRz82w&hl=en&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/zQ4OXvRz82w&hl=en&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object> That clip shows the original John albert Conner's mother being killed in the Gamma-verse Reese tracks down a another Sarah Conner who is only a teenager thinking it was the mother of his John Conner, They fall in love and defeat the Terminator, This alpha-verse Kyle Reese survives and marries Beta-Sarah raising their child as the new "John" Conner Reese as Kyle lives to mentor him with all the know how of a future solder making the Beta-John a more formidable enemy then Colonel John.A.Conner ever was in Kyle's home universe. Like in the first film (gamma-verse) the Terminators edoskeleton is discovered by Cyberdyne as a result research progresses faster and judgment day now happens in 1997 sooner then before. Kyle Reese this time is alive to dissuade Sarah from crusading against Cyberdyne, She never gets institutionalized as a result. The media announces sky net activation an hour before the fact in a press conference tipping off Kyle and Sarah, Who Rush to a fall out shelter only to be killed in a car crash just hours before judgment day , General Brewsters convey comes across the Reese familie's shattered vehicle and pulls the young John Conner from the wreckage and evacuates him along with the generals family to the underground base. Beta-Skynet is defeated as before in the alpha-verse except now a year earlier in 2029 under different circumstances Skynet now pulls more aces out of its sleeve , Beta-Skynet sends a data package loaded with information to itself in 2015, Then afterward sends the T-101 to 1984 instead of 1983 , beta future-Kyle now knows what Sarah Conner looks like thanks to the photograph betaverse-John Conner had with him that survived judgment day. This timeframe follows the events of the first movie more closely creating the gamma verse. Kyle dies this time around , So now Sarah is forced to raise and rear John on her own. She is institutionalized but manages to escape and abduct JC from his foster home and go hiding in south America until 1997 , Where Sarah finds General Brewster and attempts to thwart judgment day but is killed in a shoot out at the army base, General Brewster feels pity for John and cares for him as a temporary foster parent in his household where he falls in love with Kate. They survive judgment day and General Brewster becomes head of the resistance and later recruits John into his ranks when he reaches 17. Gamma-verse Skynet received the data pack sent to itself by beta-verse skynet, This Skynet now has all the knowledge of its past incarnation. It now has research more advance then before and succeeds in creating A new series of Terminators superior to any from the previous timeframes the "T-1000's". It knows its counterpart failed to eliminate John Connor in 1984,In 2025 It plots this time to kill him as a child in 1995 sending the T-1000 model back through time as insurance investment in case it fails to win again, The resistance hackers learn of this scheme and so John Conner now the head of the resistance reprograms a captured T-101 to protect his younger self in the past, The Time displacement prototype is then destroyed forcing skynet to rebuild it. The Gamma timeframe continues John Conner is assassinated a day before the final push on the central complex by a T-101 , The Terminator is neutralized locked and bound at the Resistance HQ Colonel Barnes is assigned to besiege the central complex with his forces in 2029 and but the plan is still the handiwork of JC,The complex is blown to kingdom come. Skynet in its last throes activates its rebuilt TDD,For good measure a probe filled with data is sent as a Christmas gift to itself in 2017,T-1000X is also sent to 2003 with adjustable mission parameters one being to reverse SN fortunes in the war by eliminating Kate Brewster and her father also other resistance leaders, Its also programed to kill JC in anticipation of a potential failure by T-1000 in 1995. Then finally Skynet sends a T-101 back to 1984 , Knowing that it will likely fail but SN believes its necessary for its existence. Barnes and Kate Conner secure the Time lab, Repair the T-101 that assassinated John conner the day before and send it to 2003 to intercept TX,It was Programed to protect Kate and John. The Delta-verse the film universe watch the movies Terminator Salvation - A Black Falcon - 7th June 2009 I think this thread yet again proves that trying to make sense of the Terminator timeline is a horrible mess and headache. Time travel stuff always does seem to end up that way, but when a series repeatedly contradicts itself, such confusion can't be avoided. It always has been better at the action than telling a coherent ongoing story (between movies... good thing that the action's so well done. :) Terminator Salvation - lazyfatbum - 8th June 2009 Good ideas ASM. Falcon the time lines of t1 and t2 actually make perfect logical sense, I believe 3 also follows suit but Salvation is where it fucks it all up. The only real issue is that John in t2 is 13 when the script says he's 10. Terminator Salvation - lazyfatbum - 8th June 2009 :FuckYou: |