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The Best (Western) Cartoons - A Black Falcon - 3rd May 2009
The orders here don't mean a lot. This was inspired by watching some original-series Inspector Gadget episodes again... that show's still great... :)
Cartoon shorts
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1. Looney Tunes/Merrie Melodies
2. Disney
3. Tom & Jerry
Television cartoons (for kids)
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1. TMNT (original series)
2. Inspector Gadget (original series only)
3. Scooby-Doo (original or the newest TV series)
Television cartoons (for adults)
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1. Futurama
2. Duck Dodgers in the 24th and 1/2 Century
3. The Simpsons (I guess, those two are way ahead really)
4. The Flintstones
As far as movies, I really don't know... Disney's the best at that, though.
The Best (Western) Cartoons - lazyfatbum - 4th May 2009
Are we specifically talking hand-drawn? In the category of shorts Tex Avery is at the top of my list, Fred Quimby of the Metro Goldwyn-Mayer fame who jumpstarted Tex and William Hannah and Jo Barbara. Almost all the great writing came from that collective team. Hannah/Barbara came up with the great plots and character interactions, Quimby knew how to make it imaginative and funny. When Tom and Jerry really hit their stride their cartoons were considered the best. Many of them being nominated and/or winning Academy Awards. Then there's Tex, he basically made and designed almost every single character you can name and had influence in the comedy and the "cartoon feel" of stretchy, bendy characters. Getting run over by a car meant you become a 2-D panel of yourself, that's all him.
The spit take and double take became more and more extreme all because of Tex and that influenced Tom and Jerry as they went from normal cat and mouse to Tom creating science experiments to poison Jerry or the classic eps where lions or bears had escaped from the zoo. As they became more 'cartoony' the characters and plots evolved and then turned to absolute shit in the 60's. Tex Avery made it what it was but the combo of Quimby, Will and Joe and Avery made it unstoppable. It influenced Disney to the point that they went from realism to physical humor with Goofy and his shorts. Goofy became more popular than Micky so he was pulled back a bit but the mark that was left on Disney is that comedy can be found in anything.
After Tex created Daffy Duck and Porky Pig's 'buddy team' comedy there was a lack of an anti-hero which was becoming increasingly popular in film (guess why), so they started on the creation of Bugs Bunny who at first was even more daffy than Daffy. Once Schlesinger got his own studio all the shit in the world hit the fan. He stole everyone and brought them together in one studio. Bob Clampet, Carl Stalling, Tex, freakin Chuck Jones and then when it all came together: Mel Blanc. And the hight of the golden age of toons was born.
But it was Robert McKimson that made the definitive cartoon characters we know today. He made Bugs Bunny who he is and how he acts, even down to his brooklyn accent. He designed the Tazmanian Devil and the Bugs/Devil pairing. He also brought Tex's Porky and Daffy in to a definitive version. But Robert and Leon had a growing friendship/hate for eachother as they litteraluy traded animators and writers between studios, it was actually pretty funny seeing how it impacted the cartoons. But Daffy went from Tex's insanity to Robert's highly competitive trickster to Chuck Jones arrogant failure and a mix of every incarnation, only going HOO HOO HOO HOO insane when he loses his mind from Porky's calm, ever humble genius which is a perfect comedy.
Blah there's too much to talk about :D anyway, yes the cartoon shorts of old are just incredible. While Simpsons, Futurama and other Groening creations can hit the nail on the head with a joke he cant seem to really expand a character, even with 15 seasons of content the characters are as deep as they were when we first met them. Jetsons. Flinstones, all of Hannah and Barbara's outings suffer the same fate but it's done with a lot of savvy. Everyone caught Bambam as the adopted child because Betty and Barney couldn't have children and the hushed tones of sympathy whenever Wilma and Fred argued over helping Barney and Betty out with whatever, even the hints of jealousy of Betty for Wilma's Pebbles. That's some pretty in-depth character creation and the Flinstones got more spirit than Jetsons because Flinstones were prime time material. But the old shorts, oddly enough, with no integration of 'series' and stand-alone stories retain everything. We know what bugs has been through, what his experiences are - we guess and plot along with Bugs when he gets in a situation. It's because we want him to win and we know that he's a good hearted guy who always is the first to cut slack. Daffy of course we want to fail but then feel sorry for but his punchline is that he ends up knowing what an ass he was and walks off the screen with his beak missing calling Bugs an asshole and the audience doesnt feel guilt because Daffy's 'gonna be okay'. It's fucking genius.
Why cant a 10 year running series develop that kind of fluidity and arc I dont know, but they just dont. Maybe its because every cartoon from the early studios were looked at as 'this could be our last' or 'we may not have a job tomorrow' meant to put as much soul in to every frame as possible, while studios today pick up a season or two and develop accordingly with whatever Nielson says. I dunno.
On the other hand there is things like Bart's ordeal with trying to balance his desire for chaos while also trying to be responsible for the people he cares for (strange character arc for Bart), Marge's teetering sanity (to be stolen by Family Guy's Louis), Lisa's character is Marge's character if she didn't have the responsibility of the family, so Lisa voices everything and makes ny complaint of something wrong in the house or the world and Marge agrees but tells her to shut up because its going to get Homer pissed. This is actual family arcs so its funny but not all that in depth. Everyone knows Leela's struggle to find her parents and homeworld only to discover that her parents were sewer mutants and Fry's occasional breakdown where he cant stand the new future and misses his old days, pulling on the heart strings of every grown up highschool heart throb and champion who finds themselves in a confusing role as an adult and that's cool. So maybe i'm not giving enough credit.
The Best (Western) Cartoons - Geno - 4th May 2009
The advantage that Futurama has over The Simpsons is that the characters are older and so they don't have to stay the same age for twenty years. This opens new opportunities for multitudes in their character depth. Bart will never move beyond the 4th grade, Lisa will always have dreams of college that she'll never achieve except in occasional future-set episodes (all of which have been hypothetical anyway), and Maggie will always be sucking on that pacifier. How many times has that family celebrated birthdays, Halloween, Christmas, and other holidays without aging even a year? Granted, in situation comedies, things rarely change other than maybe an addition of a character (i.e. someone has a baby) or the killing off of a character, sometimes a change of occupation for a character (Peter Griffin was on his third major job the last time I watched Family Guy).
Some shows will add more of a "story arc" feel so that there's some continuity in the show and characters can actually grow and develop. Although, when compared to the old theatrical shorts by Warner Bros., MGM, Disney, and Hanna-Barbara, there's actually a lot of continuity in shows like The Simpsons and Futurama, albeit their many continuity errors. How often does one Looney Tunes short refer back to the events of another? I can recall one such instance, when Bugs Bunny and Cecil Turtle had a rematch race.
But anyway, I certainly love the old theatrical cartoons, especially Looney Tunes. As such, I have always been a fan of early 90's WB cartoons such as Tiny Toons and Animaniacs as they kept the spirit of Looney Tunes alive for a new generation. The current generation is lacking in this sort of entertainment. (I'm sure Spongebob does just fine keeping the kiddos amused, but... the dynamic is very different. It's still slapstick, but... different nonetheless.)
Cartoons seem to be leaning more in the direction of "weird" if you watch Cartoon Network lately. Ever seen Chowder or Flapjack? The animation, the jokes, the very concepts... they're odd, to say the least, though not necessarily bad.
But as for my all-time favorite western cartoon, I would probably say Futurama. The Simpsons comes close, and if it had died ten years ago, it probably would be about equal to Futurama, at least in terms of humor. I still like the concept of Futurama better. It's more original and has more room for over-the-top humor without carelessly inserting it like Family Guy (that's not to criticize Family Guy as it obviously does this on purpose). I see more storyline possibilities with Futurama than I do with The Simpsons, though the yellow people have kept me entertained for years, so I'll give them the #2 spot.
The Best (Western) Cartoons - alien space marine - 4th May 2009
South Park, Even if season 13 is mostly weak sauce , Its still the best potty mouth humor on tv.
I never watched Futurama very much, Although what I did see of it I liked.
The Best (Western) Cartoons - Geno - 4th May 2009
South Park is one of the most ever-changing adult cartoons seeing as the creators don't care much about consistency. It started off as simple potty humor before reaching into the realms of politics, current events, celebrity scandals, and everything in between. In terms of quality, it's varied in recent seasons (and yes, as you said, Season 13 was pretty weak for the most part), though there was a high point some years back with Seasons 4, 5, and 6. The show is very direct and very sharp with its satire, sometimes coming off as irreverent with its heavy use of profanity and toilet humor. It's also noted for being very over-the-top, though not quite to the extent of Family Guy. At least, South Park tries to keep its humor tied to a storyline while Family Guy tends to rely on cutaways to execute most of its jokes. Still, South Park's storylines are often very... out there. They give it this "epic but silly" feel oftentimes, like in one of those episodes where we learn some kind of secret of the universe and then the answer ends up being something completely ridiculous like "Crab People" or "manatees" or "St. Peter was a rabbit."
Whatever the case, I enjoy South Park in all its rudeness and common sense. It's often noted for being one of the most conservative comedies on television, though it tends to be politically moderate on most issues. On environmental issues, especially, it tends to take jabs at the left, but on issues of sensitivity and censorship in the media, it's in no way a conservatives' show. It's really just a show for someone with a sense of humor who doesn't take himself or herself too seriously.
The Best (Western) Cartoons - Fittisize - 6th May 2009
I'm absolutely elated after just finishing Futurama: Into the Wild Green Yonder, so that show definitely ranks high up on my list of favourite cartoons. Fry's and Leela's relationship is the focal point of that show and the reason why I like it so much. Don't get me wrong, the show as a whole is hysterical, but their complicated relationship is what really keeps it all together. Fry playing the holophonor at the end of "The Devil’s Hands Are Idle Playthings" and spelling Leela's name with stars in "Time Keeps On Slippin" are very touching moments. It's hard enough to achieve a sense of empathy and rapport with any two characters in any medium, but Futurama crafted one of the most gut-wrenching love stories that I've ever seen on TV, and they did it using a mutant cyclops and a man frozen a thousand years in the past.
That being said, it'd be impossible for me to leave out The Simpsons as one of my favourite cartoons. I never watched any child-orientated TV shows as a kid; all I can remember is watching the earliest syndicated episodes of The Simpsons. It's grown on me in a powerful way and I've seen every episode from Season 1 to about Season 11 more times than I'm willing to admit. Aside from the classic episodes that any Simpsons will list as among their favourites, such as "Marge vs. The Monorail," "Homer at Bat," and "Deep Space Homer," the ones that really stick out as my favourites are "Mother Simpson" (still my favourite episode and enough to send chills down my spine just thinking about it), "Moaning Lisa," "Round Springfield" (the two eps where Bleeding Gums Murphy is a central character), "I Love Lisa," and really any other episode centering around Lisa (and no, I didn't remember all of these episode titles - I had to use Wikipedia to come up with a few of them). Like countless other fans, The Simpsons holds a pretty special place in my heart and I still watch the show whenever I see it on TV. I still laugh at the same jokes as I did when I was six years old fer chrissakes.
And finally, I gotta say that I'm shocked that nobody has listed King of the Hill as one of their favourites. That's definitely on the same level as The Simpsons and Futurama in my book. I remember reading somewhere that KotH is the only animated show that could be funny as a live-action sitcom, and those are really the best words to describe it. I'm pretty sad that KotH is ending after providing so many hilarious moments. It pokes fun at American culture in a funnier and more realistic way than any other show out there (like the eps on carbon offsets, MySpace, and any reference to whatever trend or fad is popular) and it does it in such a bland and dry manner that you realize just how ridiculous and fake and contrived everything in the world, including yourself, is. KotH is another show I've been watching for many years, and I get a nostalgia boost watching old episodes of it in the same was as I do watching old episodes of The Simpsons. King of the Hill though, Old Faithful that it is, has managed to be funny for basically its entire lifespan whereas new episodes of The Simpsons ("new" being anything from Season 12 or 13 onward) are slightly-above-average at best, and utterly unwatchable at worst.
I also like South Park for some of the reasons Geno mentioned and also because I can remember staying up until midnight with my older brother when I was still in elementary school to secretly watch episodes, and I guess I like Family Guy because it's a de facto requirement for being a student. So I guess those are my top five adult animated cartoons: Futurama, The Simpsons, King of the Hill, South Park, and Family Guy. And whaddaya know, they also happen to be the most successful animated shows in history. Whatever. I also enjoy Frasier and Seinfeld.
The Best (Western) Cartoons - Geno - 6th May 2009
Into the Wild Green Yonder was fucking epic. That'd be a perfect note for the series to end on, with no ambiguity left to the long-lasting tension that was Fry and Leela's relationship (even the final television episode, The Devil's Hands Are Idle Playthings, left things open to interpretation, with Bender's Big Score confirming that they had not hooked up as a result of that episode). It seems likely, however, that the show will be renewed due to enormous DVD sales both of the box sets and of the movies.
My favorite Simpsons episodes are definitely emotional ones from the classic era such as 'Round Springfield, Marge Be Not Proud, Lisa on Ice, and others. I, too, am a Lisa fan. However, I always found myself having a soft spot for Sideshow Bob episodes for one reason or another. Cape Feare basically got me hooked on his character. His sophistication is contrasted by the slapstick rake gags (not to mention his psychotic ambition). I admit to still watching new episodes as they air, and yes, they range anywhere from above average to gut-wrenchingly bad. It still brings me occasional laughs, though, and it's still one of the most entertaining things on television each week.
Sadly, I've barely watched King of the Hill, though whenever I catch it on Fox or Adult Swim, I'll watch it. It's a very good, subtle show (bland, as you said, but that's part of its unique charm). And yes, it is the only one of these animated shows that would work just as well as a live action sitcom. I almost forget it's a cartoon sometimes with the realism of its animation style. It's definitely a shame that it's being given the shaft now after thirteen seasons. Not many shows have lasted thirteen seasons and remained consistently funny. The Simpsons was certainly worn out by Season 13 and South Park, which is halfway through its own thirteenth season, is beginning to show its age as well.
Being stretched out for all eternity seems to be the new trend with these shows. The Simpsons has been renewed until Season 22 (we're almost at the end of Season 20 right now). South Park's contract lasts until at least Season 15 and will likely be renewed soon. I think Family Guy is in Season 7 or so and it'll probably go on for years no matter how unfunny and irreverent the new episodes are.
I no longer watch new episodes of Family Guy except on rare occasions when I'm curious. I did watch it last Sunday though, and I also watched American Dad for the first time in a while. I was fairly indifferent to both. American Dad is a show that has entertained from time to time, but I've gotten bored with it. It just didn't have that charm or staying power that the other shows had. Old episodes of Family Guy may not have had a lot of heart, but the hilarity of the jokes was enough to give the show staying power and I still enjoy reruns of the show's original 1999-2002 run (as well as a few of the early back-from-cancellation episodes).
The Best (Western) Cartoons - lazyfatbum - 7th May 2009
Yeah King of the Hill is under rated for sure. Not to mention its the continuation of the same Beavis and Butthead universe as its the same creator and animation team. Oddly enough there's Beavis and Butthead episodes with Hank Hill in it and why there was no cross over episodes in KotH i'll never understand. Imagine Bobby hanging out with Beavis and Butthead and then Hank going ape shit because he used to live in the neighborhood with them, even flashbacks of Beavis and Butthead eps, it would be epic.
The Best (Western) Cartoons - lazyfatbum - 7th May 2009
Oh nvm, Hank's character was just xerox's of each other. But the char from Beavis and Butthead can be Hank's brother/uncle.
The Best (Western) Cartoons - Geno - 8th May 2009
Yeah, I do seem to recall a character in Beavis and Butthead who looked like Hank Hill, but I don't think he actually was. Mike Judge probably feels that a crossover would be selling out and he's not likely to do that, especially if his show is ending soon. Didn't he also create Daria?
On the other hand, I can imagine Seth MacFarlane doing a Family Guy/American Dad crossover at some point. I've seen a few cameos by American Dad characters in a few Family Guy episodes, but not the reverse. I haven't been watching either show lately, so I don't know if they've already done such a thing. I remember Roger appearing at the end of the Back to the Future spoof and also in the Star Wars spoof. I also remember the episode of Family Guy where Stewie kills Lois (or so he thinks), he hacks into the CIA mainframe or something like that and is confronted by Stan Smith and Deputy-Director Bullock. That's all the crossing over I recall. I know they've made references to American Dad on Family Guy as well.
Also regarding crossovers, there was apparently a comic book crossover between The Simpsons and Futurama some years back. Not sure how that was, but I can't really picture those two universes colliding, namely because everyone in The Simpsons universe is yellow instead of flesh colored. I guess I can see an interaction between Kang and Kodos and the aliens of Futurama.