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This is sooo gay - Darunia - 18th May 2003
Hah. They spoofed that Santorum dude good on SNL last night.
This is sooo gay - Weltall - 18th May 2003
How is it racism? Since when did gays become a new race?
He's right too, and has been catching heat because his remarks were blown out of proportion. The act in question describes a consensual sex law, which states, to some effect, that all consensual sex should be legal, and the law was drafted with homosexuality in mind. So if this law made homosexuality legal, it would also make bigamy, incest and polygamy, statutory rape, and practically any sort of now-illegal consensual sex legal as well. What Santorum said mirrors what Justice Byron White stated in a 1986 Supreme Court ruling that dealt with homosexuality.
This is sooo gay - Sacred Jellybean - 18th May 2003
So in other words, you believe that true love cannot occur between two men or two women, just between a man and a woman? Well, I disagree... bigamy, polygamy, and statutory rape don't follow the rules of love in different, more obvious ways, but they're much more deviant from the traditional love between a man and a woman than homosexuality.
This is sooo gay - Weltall - 18th May 2003
Quote:Originally posted by Sacred Jellybean
So in other words, you believe that true love cannot occur between two men or two women, just between a man and a woman? Well, I disagree... bigamy, polygamy, and statutory rape don't follow the rules of love in different, more obvious ways, but they're much more deviant from the traditional love between a man and a woman than homosexuality.
That's your opinion. I don't happen to share it.
This is sooo gay - A Black Falcon - 19th May 2003
Its fact. And you just refuse to see it.
This is sooo gay - Weltall - 19th May 2003
Wha makes that a fact, professor?
This is sooo gay - Sacred Jellybean - 19th May 2003
That's right, it's my opinion. My opinion is shared by some, disagreed with by others, such as you. As the legislature in most states now stands, homosexuals cannot be married, as the legislators share your opinion, but it's still the law that's judicially enforced against the citizens.
Since this is an ethics issue, opinions are obviously going to come into play. If my opinion on the deviancy of homosexuality doesn't count, then neither does Santorum's.
This is sooo gay - Weltall - 19th May 2003
None of our opinions really matter when you get down to it
This is sooo gay - Darunia - 19th May 2003
Not to bash gays or anything, but I don't believe that that sort of affection is the same. Albeit that both are simply emotional forms of sexuality, they're just different. Heterosexual love is the natural state...anything else is unusual and thusly of a different sort.
This is sooo gay - A Black Falcon - 19th May 2003
You call it "unusual" but its not... its the less common form, but its hardly "unusual".
This is sooo gay - Darunia - 20th May 2003
Misconstruing your opinion for fact is hardly helping you prove your case. I think it's unnatural, just like someone is born with six fingers. Anyone not born heterosexual or with eight fingers, two thumbs and ten toes is not usual....say what you will.
This is sooo gay - A Black Falcon - 20th May 2003
There is a big, big difference between "not the majority state" and "bad".
This is sooo gay - Weltall - 5th June 2003
You know, I hate the idea of resurrecting this thread but a wonderful point was made to me recently that further proves my point that homosexuality is a choice, and I'm surprised I hadn't thought of it earlier.
It's very common knowledge that homosexuality is very common in prisons.
Without going into much unnecessary detail, if a person was born gay, the only thing one who believes being gay is a genetic or biological affliction can assume without discrediting their position is that gay people commit a very disproportionate number of crimes, especially of a violent nature. Of course, that's anything but true, there's a lot of gay sex in prisons because you never have anyone else of the opposite sex to fuck.
However, if homosexuality were truly biological or genetic, this wouldn't be possible, and thus this scenario further disproves the myth of sexual preference being beyond control.
This is sooo gay - OB1 - 5th June 2003
Yousa point is well said.
This is sooo gay - Darunia - 5th June 2003
Prisoners don't turn homosexual, they need to get off some how. They're still attracted to women, I'm sure; they just can't get any. That's like saying chronic masturbation is a choice...it's forced upon people who can't get laid.
This is sooo gay - alien space marine - 5th June 2003
Some inmates dress like woman to get protection from other inmates.
Its all about survival really.
This is sooo gay - Weltall - 5th June 2003
Quote:Originally posted by Darunia
Prisoners don't turn homosexual, they need to get off some how. They're still attracted to women, I'm sure; they just can't get any. That's like saying chronic masturbation is a choice...it's forced upon people who can't get laid.
That's entirely untrue. There is nothing forcing you to achieve orgasm. You can go your entire life without ever experiencing one. Orgasms is a natural incentive to have sex and reproduce.
The point is, if homosexuality is something embedded in your genetic or biological code, homosexuality in prisons would be restricted to genetic homosexuals. Obviously there is no such restriction, because genetic and biological homosexuals do not exist. That the prisoners resort to homosexuality is certainly a result of there being no other sexual choice besides masturbation or abstinence, and it is also proof that it is indeed a choice. There are some who will choose never to participate in homosexual behavior, but the fact stands that inmates are far more likely to become practicing homosexuals, and if it were a matter of genetics or biology, this would not be possible.
This is sooo gay - Darunia - 5th June 2003
Weltaii, I respect you as a friend and an adversary, but you're just wrong here. People are driven to get off. Yes, you can obviously go an entire lifetime without ever having sex or masturbating, but you can just as easily go an entire lifetime without ever walking, or talking of your own choice. People CAN be gay...but if so, it is forced upon them. If those prisoners hadn't been jailed, do you think they ever would have hooked up? Don't you think they'd still rather have women? Just because they're fucking eachother in the ass doesn't mean they're aroused by one another, they probably just need to fuck something! If you have sex with a man, you're not gay (proverbially speaking; that'd obviously never happen.). If you have sex with a man because you want to and are aroused by it, you ARE gay.
This is sooo gay - Weltall - 5th June 2003
Quote:Originally posted by Darunia
Weltaii, I respect you as a friend and an adversary, but you're just wrong here. People are driven to get off. Yes, you can obviously go an entire lifetime without ever having sex or masturbating, but you can just as easily go an entire lifetime without ever walking, or talking of your own choice. People CAN be gay...but if so, it is forced upon them. If those prisoners hadn't been jailed, do you think they ever would have hooked up? Don't you think they'd still rather have women? Just because they're fucking eachother in the ass doesn't mean they're aroused by one another, they probably just need to fuck something! If you have sex with a man, you're not gay (proverbially speaking; that'd obviously never happen.). If you have sex with a man because you want to and are aroused by it, you ARE gay.
People are driven to get off as a means of reproduction. It's really brilliant if you think about it. See, to thrive, a species must reproduce. Now, if reproduction were a painful process, organisms would tend to not do it, and thus the species eventually would die. The orgasm is the incentive to go through the whole sex process.
That said, if you have to get off, you yourself said that one could masturbate. It takes some level of attraction to get off by engaging in sex with someone else, regardless of their gender, whereas to masturbate all you need is your imagination and a strong right arm.
And I disagree with your final statement as well: The act of gay sex makes you gay, not the thought of it. All people have slight homosexual urges or fantasies at least once in their lives. Everyone with a functioning reproductive system is capable of homosexuality. The only way you can have sex with someone of the same gender and not be gay is if the sexual act is against your will. You are gay by action only. You are not gay by thought anymore than one is a murdere by thought.
This is sooo gay - A Black Falcon - 5th June 2003
Weltall. How in the world are you still saying that if you have gay sex you are gay? It just is such a bizarre idea that its impossible for me to understand how you actually think that that is the case...
As Darunia said, prisoners do that because they want do do something and have no women around. Simple as that. Its not like it suddenly makes them gay and not like women...
Capability and action has absolutely nothing do do with what state your brain is wired for. Of course you're made to make children... but if you have something messed up (either genetic or a combonation of various genes and some environmental effects) in you, your brain would be telling you something else... its not under their control or anything. It just is. And it has nothing to do with biology or actions.
Quote:It takes some level of attraction to get off by engaging in sex with someone else
Or imagination.
This is sooo gay - Weltall - 6th June 2003
Quote:Originally posted by A Black Falcon
Weltall. How in the world are you still saying that if you have gay sex you are gay? It just is such a bizarre idea that its impossible for me to understand how you actually think that that is the case...
I'm not surprised in the least. You seem to avoid common sense like the Road Runner evades Wile E. Coyote.
What YOU are saying is what is bizarre. You're trying to tell me that having gay sex doesn't make you gay but THINKING about gay sex DOES make you gay! How can you say something like that with a straight face? That makes as much sense as saying that you are not a murderer if you actually murder someone, but you are a murderer if you desire to kill someone.
I know that your method of logic is so completely warped that you believe things like that, but most normal people know better.
Quote:As Darunia said, prisoners do that because they want do do something and have no women around. Simple as that. Its not like it suddenly makes them gay and not like women...
I know that's why they have gay sex, I stated that in the first post I made on the subject. But having gay sex is not the only way one can get off. You can also masturbate, you only need yourself to do that. If getting an orgasm is the solitary goal, masturbation suffices perfectly. If you have sex with someone else, you want more than just a simple orgasm. You feel attraction to a person, on some level, to have sex with them. Do you think people practice bestiality or other such depravities just to get off? Hell no, they do it because they have a sick attraction to whatever they're fucking, be it another man or a doberman or horse or gerbil.
That aside, the whole point of this is that if homosexuality were genetic or biological, then only gay men would have gay sex in prison, when everyone knows that is not the case, because everyone has the potential to be gay.
Quote:Capability and action has absolutely nothing do do with what state your brain is wired for. Of course you're made to make children... but if you have something messed up (either genetic or a combonation of various genes and some environmental effects) in you, your brain would be telling you something else... its not under their control or anything. It just is. And it has nothing to do with biology or actions.
That's total shit and you know it. If gay people had crossed wires that made them not want to have kids because they had some nonexistent genetic urge to screw only other people of the same sex, then why do gay people fight so hard to adopt children (which is a terrible, terrible idea)?
No one's brain is wired to do ANYTHING except do basic bodily functions. Almost everything you do in life you do because you have a desire to do it, and as anyone with half a brain knows, sex is all about desire. And no one is born with a single desire. No one.
Quote:Or imagination.
It takes imagination to be gay? No. You have gay sex in prison if the imagination+masturbation combo doesn't appeal to you.
This is sooo gay - Nintendarse - 6th June 2003
All people have slight homosexual urges or fantasies at least once in their lives.
Aha! So what makes these urges any less "natural" or "good" than heterosexual urges? Don't they all come from the same place?
This is sooo gay - Weltall - 6th June 2003
Quote:Originally posted by Nintendarse
[B]All people have slight homosexual urges or fantasies at least once in their lives.
Aha! So what makes these urges any less "natural" or "good" than heterosexual urges? Don't they all come from the same place? [/B]
Because acting on them is acting against your nature. Homosexual urges are a sign of sexual immaturity. Most people pass them by and never pay heed to them.
It's not really my argument to say that they're less natural or good, it's my argument to say that everyone has the urges, a few people act on them, and to do so is a choice.
This is sooo gay - A Black Falcon - 6th June 2003
Quote:That's total shit and you know it. If gay people had crossed wires that made them not want to have kids because they had some nonexistent genetic urge to screw only other people of the same sex, then why do gay people fight so hard to adopt children (which is a terrible, terrible idea)?
No one's brain is wired to do ANYTHING except do basic bodily functions. Almost everything you do in life you do because you have a desire to do it, and as anyone with half a brain knows, sex is all about desire. And no one is born with a single desire. No one.
Um, you don't really make sense... why would it be true that because you see other people as attractive your urge to want children would go too? They are obviously not linked that closely... because it doesn't work that way. Just because you see the same gender as attractive you should have lost your urge to have/raise children? Huh?
Quote:It takes imagination to be gay? No. You have gay sex in prison if the imagination+masturbation combo doesn't appeal to you.
No, no, imagining a woman during it.
Quote:I'm not surprised in the least. You seem to avoid common sense like the Road Runner evades Wile E. Coyote.
What YOU are saying is what is bizarre. You're trying to tell me that having gay sex doesn't make you gay but THINKING about gay sex DOES make you gay! How can you say something like that with a straight face? That makes as much sense as saying that you are not a murderer if you actually murder someone, but you are a murderer if you desire to kill someone.
I know that your method of logic is so completely warped that you believe things like that, but most normal people know better.
Thinking about killing someone doesn't make you a murderer, but there definitely a difference between someone who just kills someone and someone who thinks about doing that all the time and plans it before killing someone.
But that doesn't have much to do with this... except for the fact that its probably true that some people are wired to be more violent than others.
As for this issue... why would it make you gay if you have gay sex? Being gay has nothing to do with who you have sex with... its who you find attractive... and teh things you are talking about aren't even close to that.
Quote:I know that's why they have gay sex, I stated that in the first post I made on the subject. But having gay sex is not the only way one can get off. You can also masturbate, you only need yourself to do that. If getting an orgasm is the solitary goal, masturbation suffices perfectly. If you have sex with someone else, you want more than just a simple orgasm. You feel attraction to a person, on some level, to have sex with them. Do you think people practice bestiality or other such depravities just to get off? Hell no, they do it because they have a sick attraction to whatever they're fucking, be it another man or a doberman or horse or gerbil.
That aside, the whole point of this is that if homosexuality were genetic or biological, then only gay men would have gay sex in prison, when everyone knows that is not the case, because everyone has the potential to be gay.
No, the point is that your arguement makes no sense. None. If it were genetic/biological it'd happen exactly as it does. If it was environemental, however, it wouldn't be even close.
Look, are you going to argue that they find masturbation and sex to be just as rewarding? Because clearly they don't or it wouldn't be happening. Are they gay? No. They are not. They are just criminals in prison who want more. And even men is better to them than nothing. That doesn't say anything about being gay... just about their situation. It doesn't mean that when they get out they are going to suddenly be gay... or do you actually think that that is true? How sad... because that's not the way it works.
Now if it were environmental, that is exactly what would happen... or pretty close.
Quote:It's not really my argument to say that they're less natural or good, it's my argument to say that everyone has the urges, a few people act on them, and to do so is a choice.
It is extremely stupid and uninformed to equate those "small urges" with what it is like for a homosexual person.
This is sooo gay - Darunia - 6th June 2003
Quote:It's not really my argument to say that they're less natural or good, it's my argument to say that everyone has the urges, a few people act on them, and to do so is a choice.
Come on Weltaii; no one in their right mind would EVER choose to be gay! A gay guy came into out school and lectured to we seniors a month ago, and he said upon being asked, "no one would ever choose to be gay." He said that himself, an actual gay guy.
This is sooo gay - Nintendarse - 6th June 2003
Because acting on them is acting against your nature. Homosexual urges are a sign of sexual immaturity.
Backing for this?
This is sooo gay - A Black Falcon - 6th June 2003
Because the only possible natural thing is heterosexual sex, for reproduction, and anything else is just made up or based on strange choices people make, naturally.
This is sooo gay - Undertow - 6th June 2003
Quote:Originally posted by A Black Falcon
As for this issue... why would it make you gay if you have gay sex? Being gay has nothing to do with who you have sex with... its who you find attractive... and teh things you are talking about aren't even close to that.
Because most people have sex with others due to attraction? If someone dosn't feel the urge to have sex with a person, they won't. I don't understand your reasoning. It just seems absurd to me for someone to be totally straight one day, and just to wake up the next and decide to go screw Jimi Joe down at the gas station. Being a straight guy, I can't find myself attracted to the same sex...even if I were try and force myself to.
This is sooo gay - Weltall - 7th June 2003
Quote:Originally posted by A Black Falcon
Um, you don't really make sense... why would it be true that because you see other people as attractive your urge to want children would go too? They are obviously not linked that closely... because it doesn't work that way. Just because you see the same gender as attractive you should have lost your urge to have/raise children? Huh?
Well, if you lose your urge to create a child, wouldn't it go without saying? It's you who are claiming that these reproductive urges are against everyone's will.
Quote:No, no, imagining a woman during it.
Call me crazy but I can't pretend I'm having sex with a woman when I'm either sucking a dick or taking one up the ass.
Quote:Thinking about killing someone doesn't make you a murderer, but there definitely a difference between someone who just kills someone and someone who thinks about doing that all the time and plans it before killing someone.
Only in the court of law, but the amount of planning you put into your murder doesn't change the fact that you're just as much a murderer as someone who thought more about it.
Quote:But that doesn't have much to do with this... except for the fact that its probably true that some people are wired to be more violent than others.
Oh good lord, now you're going to tell me that violence is genetic too? I'd not try that tangent, as you still never proved that even homosexuality was pre-installed on the old genetic hard drive.
Quote:As for this issue... why would it make you gay if you have gay sex? Being gay has nothing to do with who you have sex with... its who you find attractive... and teh things you are talking about aren't even close to that.That's crap. I'm sorry, but it's very difficult to have sex with someone that you don't find attractive, thus why most people don't. And as I stated above, you can't be sodomized or give a blowjob willingly and NOT enjoy it on some level, otherwise you would not, and all gay sex involves at least one member doing one of those. So at the very least, half of people who are involved in gay sex enjoy it enough to do something like that, and that's assuming all gay sex is one-way, obviously it is not. It is all about who you have sex with, thus why the term 'sexuality' makes up more than two-thirds of the term homosexuality. The act of sex is one of the most physical activities there is.
Quote:No, the point is that your arguement makes no sense. None. If it were genetic/biological it'd happen exactly as it does. If it was environemental, however, it wouldn't be even close.
In the case of prison sex, it's mostly a choice, which cannot occur if genetics are involved.
Quote:Look, are you going to argue that they find masturbation and sex to be just as rewarding? Because clearly they don't or it wouldn't be happening. Are they gay? No. They are not. They are just criminals in prison who want more. And even men is better to them than nothing. That doesn't say anything about being gay... just about their situation. It doesn't mean that when they get out they are going to suddenly be gay... or do you actually think that that is true? How sad... because that's not the way it works.
They are gay, because they have gay intercourse. Case closed. As I stated above, you can't have gay sex and not enjoy it on some level, otherwise YOU WOULDN'T DO IT AT ALL. And it's totally possible for prisoners to enjoy that gay sex enough to continue having it once released.
Quote:It is extremely stupid and uninformed to equate those "small urges" with what it is like for a homosexual person.
No it is not, the urges are what fuels sexuality, homo and hetero. It's all about whether you give into those urges. If you give into the homosexual urges instead of the heterosexual urges, you are making a conscious decision. Whether or not you choose to adopt the homosexual lifestyle is a choice as well.
More to come.
This is sooo gay - Nintendarse - 7th June 2003
Wetaii, if everyone has homosexual urges and heterosexual urges:
1.) Does everyone have the same amount of each?
2.) Why is it better to follow one type of urge while repressing the other? You could use the "natural" argument, but then that puts you in the group that is against using birth control, which puts you firmly in the minority.
This is sooo gay - alien space marine - 7th June 2003
Birth control is acceptable since it prevents conceptions , but abortion is not as soon as the embreyo begins to grow it is conciderd a unborn babby a living growing human being.
As for homosexuality there is still alot of mysteries behind it and it is accepted in science that is more then one cause for it.
This is sooo gay - OB1 - 7th June 2003
You know, I've tried my best to stay out of this topic but I really have to side with Weltall on one of these points.
If you regularly have sex with members of the same sex, you are gay! I cannot believe some of you are actually trying to deny that! Good grief. And ABF is suggesting that when you're having sex with a guy you should imagine that he's a woman?? Oh man....
Look I don't dislike homosexuals or anything like that, but if you can't distinguish between gays and straights then you have a serious problem there. If you're attracted to members of the same sex, you're gay. If you're having sex with members of the same sex by your own free will, you're gay. If it's the other way around then you're straight. It's as simple as that.
This is sooo gay - A Black Falcon - 7th June 2003
Quote: If you're attracted to members of the same sex, you're gay.
True.
Quote: If you're having sex with members of the same sex by your own free will, you're gay.
Maybe, and in most cases probably, but not necessarially. As I said, actions do not make you definitely that... if you hit someone once that doesn't mean that you are prone to violence... sure in most cases the people are. But not in all. As I said, I just can't understand how just the act would make you consider them gay... what if they still are attracted to women, huh? Are they now bisexual?
This is sooo gay - OB1 - 7th June 2003
ABF, in order to have sex with someone who have to have an erect penis, and in order to get an erection you have to get aroused, and if you're having sex with a member of the same sex you've most definitely gotten aroused by that person. Unless of course you were looking at a pretty lady and then accidently slipped your dick into some guy's ass, but come on... that's just comical.
I mean I suppose if you did it once and it was an accident or whatever, you might be able to call it a brief moment of insanity or something. But if you do it on a fairly regular basis, you're gay!
This is sooo gay - Weltall - 7th June 2003
Quote:Originally posted by Nintendarse
Wetaii, if everyone has homosexual urges and heterosexual urges:
1.) Does everyone have the same amount of each?
2.) Why is it better to follow one type of urge while repressing the other? You could use the "natural" argument, but then that puts you in the group that is against using birth control, which puts you firmly in the minority.
1. I believe that varies based on the individual. I don't believe homosexual urges are anywhere near as numerous as heterosexual urges normally.
2. I don't see how one could equate sexual preference with birth control. I'm not seeing the connection.
Quote: Maybe, and in most cases probably, but not necessarially. As I said, actions do not make you definitely that... if you hit someone once that doesn't mean that you are prone to violence... sure in most cases the people are. But not in all. As I said, I just can't understand how just the act would make you consider them gay... what if they still are attracted to women, huh? Are they now bisexual?
Exactly. You cannot, as OB1 said, accidentally have gay sex. The only single way you can have gay sex and not be gay is if you are raped.
This is sooo gay - Darunia - 7th June 2003
Quote:Exactly. You cannot, as OB1 said, accidentally have gay sex. The only single way you can have gay sex and not be gay is if you are raped.
Well, I disagree. A man stranded on an island with nothing to eat but coconuts doesn't have to love the taste of coconuts, but he'll eat it anyway. Same with prisoners...they'll take it from wherever they can get it.
This is sooo gay - OB1 - 7th June 2003
You have to eat in order to survive! You can live without fucking a guy in the ass!
:bang:
You're a virgin, right, Darunia? Are you going to have sex with another man if you don't get a girlfriend within the next few years?
This is sooo gay - A Black Falcon - 7th June 2003
Quote:Well, I disagree. A man stranded on an island with nothing to eat but coconuts doesn't have to love the taste of coconuts, but he'll eat it anyway. Same with prisoners...they'll take it from wherever they can get it.
Exactly. And as for people out of prison, I'd think it'd be possible to do that in the right circumstances... you may say not but I can't see why it wouldn't be possible.
Quote:1. I believe that varies based on the individual. I don't believe homosexual urges are anywhere near as numerous as heterosexual urges normally.
2. I don't see how one could equate sexual preference with birth control. I'm not seeing the connection. /QUOTE]
1. For most people, absolutely. But not for homosexuals.
2. since the anti-birth control movement's main arguement is that its "unnatural"... I'd think that that's obvious...
[QUOTE]Well, if you lose your urge to create a child, wouldn't it go without saying? It's you who are claiming that these reproductive urges are against everyone's will.
Uh... I don't understand what you're trying to say here...Quote:Only in the court of law, but the amount of planning you put into your murder doesn't change the fact that you're just as much a murderer as someone who thought more about it.
Well I do think that there is a difference... sure both people killed someone but it is worse when it was planned.
Quote:Oh good lord, now you're going to tell me that violence is genetic too? I'd not try that tangent, as you still never proved that even homosexuality was pre-installed on the old genetic hard drive.
Its not like it excuses their actions, but I wouldn't be surprised if some people are more prone genetically to being violent.
Quote:That's crap. I'm sorry, but it's very difficult to have sex with someone that you don't find attractive, thus why most people don't. And as I stated above, you can't be sodomized or give a blowjob willingly and NOT enjoy it on some level, otherwise you would not, and all gay sex involves at least one member doing one of those. So at the very least, half of people who are involved in gay sex enjoy it enough to do something like that, and that's assuming all gay sex is one-way, obviously it is not. It is all about who you have sex with, thus why the term 'sexuality' makes up more than two-thirds of the term homosexuality. The act of sex is one of the most physical activities there is.
Its phyiscal, but this is a mental issue, not physical one... and anyone can convince themselves mentally of almost anything. So a straight person could do it. Enjoy it? Probably not. But its physically possible... and should have no bearing whatsover on their status as truly homosexuals (as opposed to just people who tried it or something...).
Trying gay sex makes you something, but its not a homosexual... there is a huge difference between that and someone who truly only sees the same gender as attractive. Which is what the word 'homosexual' means. :)
Quote:In the case of prison sex, it's mostly a choice, which cannot occur if genetics are involved.
I don't see any choices in this issue...
This is sooo gay - OB1 - 7th June 2003
How could you not see it as a choice? Do you go around having sex with other guys because you don't have a girlfriend? Can you answer me that?? If you're stuck in prison with no means of having sex with a member of the opposite sex, you masturbate. If that's not enough for you and you choose to have sex with a member of the same sex, you're gay! This is a very black and white issue, and I'm very surprised that some of you are actually trying to deny it.
Comparing this to eating just shows how poor your argument is. If you stop eating, you die. You could live your whole life without ever having sex.
I agree with some things you say, though. It is true that you can be gay just by being attracted to the same sex, and I do not think that homosexuals are "evil" or any of that nonsense. But if you willingly have sex with someone of the same sex, you are gay, or bi-sexual. There has to be some sort of attraction there if you're having sex with that person.
This is sooo gay - Nintendarse - 8th June 2003
So far, everyone has homosexual and heterosexual urges, and it varies among people...
This is looking very much like a population distribution function. If it is a continuum, is it so hard to believe that there are people far away from the mean (completely straight) that have more homosexual urges than heterosexual urges?
Why is it better to follow one type of urge while repressing the other type? When I mentioned contraception, I was thinking ahead a bit. Weltaii has made the argument of natural sex. Sex exists to have babies. Homosexual sex is therefore not natural because it does not result in babies. heterosexual sex with contraception, like homosexual sex, does not result in babies. So how is one more natural than the other?
This is sooo gay - Darunia - 8th June 2003
You raise good points, Nintendarse. I believe that both homosexual and heterosexual urges are uncontrollable. No one CHOOSES to be gay or straight...it's in genetic makeup to be straight, but defects or trauma can make one go gay. In either case, no one chooses them...so I truly believe that neither are wrong. Gayness is just tabooed is all. Is it a choice? No, no one would ever consciously choose that.
This is sooo gay - OB1 - 8th June 2003
And of course everyone chooses to ignore my arguments, and instead decide to talk about something else.
This is sooo gay - Nintendarse - 8th June 2003
I'm sorry, OB1. The thing is, I agree with you. While the urges themselves are damn near uncontrollable (as much as your subconscious is damn near uncontrollable), there is a choice to act on them. The amount of control in this choice is debatable. Is it as full of choice as, say, political party? Of course not. Is it like responding to the demand of the body to eat? No. Sex, however, is inherent to human beings. Personaly, I believe that the choice is much closer to the "whether to eat" choice than the "what political party" choice.
This is sooo gay - OB1 - 8th June 2003
I'm not talking about the whole "choice vs. genes" debate. I'm talking about this ridiculous claim that if you have gay sex you're not gay.
This is sooo gay - Nintendarse - 8th June 2003
Oh, okay. I still agree with you. If you have gay sex, you are either gay or bisexual.
This is sooo gay - A Black Falcon - 8th June 2003
If you have gay sex you are probably gay or bisexual, but I wouldn't say definitely.
This is sooo gay - Nintendarse - 8th June 2003
So if you have gay sex, you can be straight? That's like saying that if you have straight sex, you can be gay.
This is sooo gay - OB1 - 8th June 2003
Exactly. ABF has the most warped logic I've ever heard. That, or he had sex with a guy but doesn't want to admit that he's gay, so he's making this crap up. :p
This is sooo gay - Darunia - 10th June 2003
I think it is perfectly possible for peole to have gay sex who aren't gay. Are you gonna be a dickweed and call me gay now, like you just did to ABF?
This is sooo gay - OB1 - 10th June 2003
I was joking about ABF.
But really, you should listen to what you say. How the hell can you have gay sex and not consider yourself gay?? What's the matter with you!
How do you define yourself, Darunia? You define yourself by your thoughts and your actions. If you're good at baseball and join a baseball team, you're a baseball player. If you play the drums in a band, you're a drummer. If you think good things about people and act nicely towards them, you're a kind person. If you're attracted to women you're straight. If you're atrracted to men you're gay. If you're attracted to men and women you're bi-sexual. Same thing goes with sex. If you enjoy having sex with members of the same sex, you're gay. Or bi-sexual, if you also enjoy sleeping with women.