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This is sooo gay - big guy - 4th April 2003
i agree with you completely N-Man, but that arguement didn't work, so we went deeper and deeper into the science of it, trying to convince the other side. and no one will listen.
i don't see what the taxes of the rich have to do with anything, but i don't see why they should be taxed at a higher rate. should they pay more money? yes, but it should be the same percentage of their income that the poor pay. it should all be done by a flat percentage, IMO.
and this whole thing about gays maybe being born gay but being able to change that weltalls been toying with seems shady to to me. and while yes, some gays repress their homosexuality and do "go the straight path", why should anyone have to? jewish people are born jewish, and it would be wrong to ask them to convert to christianity, just because you think the messiah has come...
furthermore, it's true that employers can fire you for any reason, their personal feelings shouldn't play a role in it, but it's their right as an employer. for example, my employer could have fired me for having a mohawk (he didn't), because he didn't agree with it. but their prejudices should not play a role in who they hire. everyone should have an equal shot.
affirmative action is something that i do not agree with on principle, but in practice, i really think it helps minorities get fair treetment when it comes to jobs and schooling. i don't feel that it's fair to give anyone an advantage, but by taking affirmative acion away from these people, you're just giving white men an advantage, and that's not fair. in a perfect world we wouldn't need it, but there are too many racist/sexist/bigots out there, that it helps out. but this has little to do with the argument at hand. i think that black gays should recieve affirmative action, for example, while white males should not.
i do, however think that there could be better ways to handle the issue of discrimination in hiring and in school acceptance than affirmative action, but it is doing a pretty decent job of keeping things fair.
This is sooo gay - A Black Falcon - 4th April 2003
Yeah, affirmative action isn't discrimination, its a attempt (not perfect, but better than any alternative I know of) to make things more fair for everyone. Of course that goes against everything the modern Republican party stands for (ie it doesn't help the super-rich or radical right, requirements for republican policy these days) so I'm hardly surprised you're against it... but it isn't discrimination. Its trying to make up for how many people are disadvantaged.
As for more, just look at Nintendarse's posts.
This is sooo gay - Dark Jaguar - 4th April 2003
Um, did you just say an entire religious doctrine is built into the Jewish race from birth? I just popped in to hear you say "Jewish people are born Jewish", which of course I assumed to mean race, until you mentioned it would be wrong to ask them to convert to Christianity. Um, you don't actually think that a whole belief structure is wired in to them from birth, do you? Many people who aren't of the Jewish race are of the Jewish religion, and at the same time many who are of the Jewish race aren't of the Jewish religion.
This is sooo gay - A Black Falcon - 4th April 2003
Who are you talking to DJ?
This is sooo gay - alien space marine - 5th April 2003
Homosexuality in Nature has so many reasons for it , Somtimes it can be a matter of mistaken identity, A male gets a females Theromones on himself and another male Believe he is female.(sodomy ensues!):D
Squids rarely meet anyone of their own kind to mate with their just to horny to care.
Japanese machacs(type of monkey) have a high percentage of Lezbeanism, But their is absolutely nothing to prove it is Genetic, Some people think this Homosexuality is a Social behavour other believe it is just a activity the female Machacs enjoy. Oddly enough they mate with males just the same.
Fruit flys have been proven to have Gay Genes.
This is sooo gay - Darunia - 5th April 2003
Fascinating stuff, ASM. Gay-ness is natural. Don't bother supressing it, it won't go away until the vast future when people use genetic research to weed it out and then we realize we're in that movie with the two guys, but one of this isn't naturally born...that woman was in it...in the future...kinda boring...?
This is sooo gay - alien space marine - 5th April 2003
Whats scary with cloning is that woman dont need men anymore to reproduce. There are some species of animals were this is infact the case.
This is sooo gay - Great Rumbler - 5th April 2003
Except that cloning is still a long way from being perfected. Take Dolly the sheep for example. She was considered one of the most successful clones and she died of cancer after about half of the normal life span of a sheep.
My theory: Cloning will take years to be perfected or perhaps will never be perfected. Why you ask? When you make a clone you take genetic material from one organism to make a clone with the exact same genetic. The problem here is that you are taking cells that have already aged to a certain point. Let's say you take genes from a 32 year old man. The clones cells would essentially be that of a 32 year old man.
What does all that have to with this discussion? Well...actually nothing...
This is sooo gay - EdenMaster - 5th April 2003
Quote:Originally posted by A Black Falcon
I think that shows your opinion pretty well... and it doesn't include much real 'impartiality'...
*sighs and shakes head*
Okay, I am partial. Does that matter? I asked you two to present me with your strongest cases and try to convince me which is right. I'm not stubborn, I used to hate Sony consoles with a firey rage, now I own one myself.
I have not read your posts yet, for I do nat have the 2 days probably necassary to read all of that, however I intend do when I have time.
And back to the elevator situation, I wouldn't be clawing at the door screaming to get out, nor would treat the other person any differently than in normal circumstances, but I would be a little uncomforable, and you cannot tell me you wouldn't be either. Even just a little.
This is sooo gay - Darunia - 5th April 2003
Whats scary with cloning is that woman dont need men anymore to reproduce.
How do they not need sperm? If that's true, I'm sure there's a way to procreate sans natural eggs.
This is sooo gay - big guy - 6th April 2003
i'm not saying that people are born wired to be jewish, DJ. but earlier i presented people being jewish as a product of their upbringing and someone said that people are jewish as a race...much like being black or white...so i changed my second argument to try to incorporate that. i guess it was too broad. what i meant was this: jewish people are born into a lifestyle where they are taught by their parents to be jewish, just as christians are taught by their parents to be christian, but since christians--like heterosexuals--are the majority, i'm not talking about them. to say that judaism isn't largely a cultural thing is dilusional, but your right, it is a belief structure that is learned above all else. i'm not sure if that cleared up what i'm talking about, i'm not trying to sound like an idiot, i'm just having trouble getting my point across on this one.
i know that some lizards change sex for a few days when a surge of male hormones swells within them, at which point they become "male" before resorting back to females when the hormones subside...crazy stuff. this has nothing to do with the gay debate...
This is sooo gay - Darunia - 6th April 2003
not saying that people are born wired to be jewish, DJ.
No one is born religious. No one is born atheist. What religion you chose is purely dependent on who raises you. If you're born in the USA, chances are you'll be protestant-christian solely because that's the popular majority. If in Spain, you'll probably be Catholic. If in Iraq, muslim...it's so random, how can any religion claim credibility?
now that some lizards change sex for a few days when a surge of male hormones swells within them, at which point they become "male" before resorting back to females when the hormones subside...crazy stuff.
Hey, just like Lazy!
This is sooo gay - alien space marine - 6th April 2003
Quote:Originally posted by Darunia
[B] not saying that people are born wired to be jewish, DJ.
No one is born religious. No one is born atheist. What religion you chose is purely dependent on who raises you. If you're born in the USA, chances are you'll be protestant-christian solely because that's the popular majority. If in Spain, you'll probably be Catholic. If in Iraq, muslim...it's so random, how can any religion claim credibility?
now that some lizards change sex for a few days when a surge of male hormones swells within them, at which point they become "male" before resorting back to females when the hormones subside...crazy stuff.
Hey, just like Lazy! [/B]
I dont want this thread to turn into another science vs religion debate , But there are so many theories on the origin of our existence how can any of them have credibility.It is a matter of personal choice and conviction.
This is sooo gay - Darunia - 6th April 2003
Right...so back to topic, no one is born gay, but no one chooses to turn gay, it's...like a medical thing that transpires.
This is sooo gay - alien space marine - 7th April 2003
Like Schizophrenia,
:D
This is sooo gay - Weltall - 7th April 2003
Quote:Originally posted by Darunia
Right...so back to topic, no one is born gay, but no one chooses to turn gay, it's...like a medical thing that transpires.
Assuming it's environmental, which it most likely is, then one might say Gays aren't born, they're made.
The biology/genetic factor is pretty much nonexistent. Choice... some make the choice outright, no doubt about it. It's probably most correct to say that most gays, those that "had a feeling they were gay and finally realized it" were products of environment. Choice and environment are pretty close, the environment influences choices you are making but not consciously. No, not everyone decides to themselves "I'm okay with being gay, so I'll do it", but everyone who is gay chooses to be, whether they realize it or not. Is that wrong? People make many decisions that they don't realize until later. For instance, getting pregnant. A woman can say "I didn't choose to get pregnant", as that was not her intention, but she did choose to have sex, and sex often leads to pregnancy. If she chose to have sex, and she got pregnant, than the pregnancy was her choice too, even though she might not realize that.
This is sooo gay - Darunia - 7th April 2003
No dice.
Not buying it, Weltall. You're admitting that gays don't choose to be like that, then you reneige on it and say they do in some manner. NO ONE does....anymore than retards who are born (or become through accidnet) retarded. You may do things that bring about these circumstances, but you don't deliberately choose them.
This is sooo gay - big guy - 7th April 2003
first of all, i know no one is born religious...
next
you can't compare a woman getting pregnant by choosing to have sex to a person deciding that they're gay do to their upbringing because the gay individual didn't choose their environment.
This is sooo gay - Weltall - 7th April 2003
And if you deliberately choose things that bring about a particular set of consequences, then you deliberately choose to accept them. If you smoke, you are deliberately causing lung damage to yourself, even if that isn't your intent. If you choose to expose yourself to influences that eventually determine your sexual preference, then you are choosing to be gay.
Here's another scenario to disprove the genetic angle:
I'm assuming all of us involved are straight, though I can only speak for myself with certainty. If gay people are gay because of genetics, that means our genes made us straight. And if you claim that gay people can't be straight because they are genetically gay, I ask you this: If any of us were to have gay sex, could our genes stop us? Could our genetic makeup somehow prevent us from giving another male a blowjob at the last second?
Of course not. Anyone can perform a homosexual act. No one is genetically tied to one sex or the other. I, or Darunia, or ABF or Beano or James Garner or Shigeru Miyamoto could, at anytime, perform a homosexual act, even though we're all heterosexual. If sexuality were genetic, we would be prevented somehow. If you're born with testicles that produce sperm, you can't simply decide to turn them off, because sperm production is a genetic trait. If you're born with blue eyes, you can't decide to change them to green, because eye color is genetic. However, any human can have sex with any other human, because that trait is not genetic. There is nothing, nothing at all that can stop any person from being heterosexual, homosexual or bisexual.
Again, this is common sense and basic science at work. Disagreeing isn't offering a differing opinion, it's being flat out wrong. Just because a person believes the world is flat doesn't mean he isn't wrong.
And if you call me wrong, you better prove it. This cycle of proving my point, and being told it's wrong by people who cannot substantiate their own position is getting very old.
Simple fact is, there is much evidence to support the fact that homosexuality is environmental/decisionary and there is almost no evidence supporting the myth that it's genetic. There is no gay gene. No one ever found one and the very existence of one is damn near impossible, as it would be very, very difficult to pass on.
I know it's too much to expect some sort of substantiated counterproof from you children, it's more likely that you'll make a response including such things as "how could any sane person believe that" and "you hate gays and wish they would die". But a man can hope. :)
This is sooo gay - A Black Falcon - 7th April 2003
What in the world are you talking about... I see no relevance whatsoever between your "point" and this argument...
This is sooo gay - Weltall - 7th April 2003
Then read it instead of skimming. My argument is that homosexuality is not genetic, and I clearly, for the umpteenth time, explained why that is.
This is sooo gay - A Black Falcon - 7th April 2003
I did.
Quote:I'm assuming all of us involved are straight, though I can only speak for myself with certainty. If gay people are gay because of genetics, that means our genes made us straight. And if you claim that gay people can't be straight because they are genetically gay, I ask you this: If any of us were to have gay sex, could our genes stop us? Could our genetic makeup somehow prevent us from giving another male a blowjob at the last second?
Of course not. Anyone can perform a homosexual act. No one is genetically tied to one sex or the other. I, or Darunia, or ABF or Beano or James Garner or Shigeru Miyamoto could, at anytime, perform a homosexual act, even though we're all heterosexual. If sexuality were genetic, we would be prevented somehow. If you're born with testicles that produce sperm, you can't simply decide to turn them off, because sperm production is a genetic trait. If you're born with blue eyes, you can't decide to change them to green, because eye color is genetic. However, any human can have sex with any other human, because that trait is not genetic. There is nothing, nothing at all that can stop any person from being heterosexual, homosexual or bisexual.
Again, this is common sense and basic science at work. Disagreeing isn't offering a differing opinion, it's being flat out wrong. Just because a person believes the world is flat doesn't mean he isn't wrong.
And if you call me wrong, you better prove it. This cycle of proving my point, and being told it's wrong by people who cannot substantiate their own position is getting very old.
I see no connection between this bizarre idea and reality of any kind...
Oh, and I'd say that the what we've said would be enough to convince anyone who isn't dead set on never looking at the truth like you and people who are as radical as you are.
This is sooo gay - Darunia - 7th April 2003
I read somewhere that people whose ring finger is shorter than their pointing finger are gay, or some dipshit thing like that that cannot possible be true. I think it may be a genetic brain disorder that one is born with...some guys do grow up acting iffy from a young age before it could've been impressed upon them.
This is sooo gay - WhiteFleck - 7th April 2003
The only real way genetics would play a part would be in deciding what is a "turn-on," like, say, a penis or boobs. But I think that for most people, just the idea of sex is exciting, so I would tend to doubt genetics affect that. But they could, I would say.
This is sooo gay - Weltall - 7th April 2003
Quote:Originally posted by A Black Falcon
I did.
I see no connection between this bizarre idea and reality of any kind...
Oh, and I'd say that the what we've said would be enough to convince anyone who isn't dead set on never looking at the truth like you and people who are as radical as you are.
Your arguments would have convinced only those who already agree with you and require no proof. Face it. You're wrong. Your refusal to offer any proof is damning to any argument you make. You're basing your opinion on theory that is not accepted as fact, and exists only to advance liberal agendas. It is you, my misguided friend, that lacks connection to reality. If you pick up a regular high school science book you will see that everything I've said is fact. You're not telling the truth. You are lying and fabricating, and stupidly, desperately trying to convince me that pigs have wings, which is exactly what I predicted you would do.
Really, it isn't so hard to offer some sort of proof to back your position. Unless none exists. And until you offer some, I won't waste my time debating this topic with someone who can't even offer one single shred of proof saying that he isn't full of shit.
Ta ta.
This is sooo gay - A Black Falcon - 7th April 2003
You know, you ask for proof. You get some pretty good proof. Then you say you have no proof. You know, all that says is that you won't accept any proof that is offered... exactly as I said you would do when this topic was started...
This is sooo gay - big guy - 7th April 2003
while you have disproven that engaging in gay acts is not genetic, you have done absolutely nothing to prove that homosexual attraction is not genetic, and i don't think there's any evidence to disprove it.
[quote]And if you deliberately choose things that bring about a particular set of consequences, then you deliberately choose to accept them. If you smoke, you are deliberately causing lung damage to yourself, even if that isn't your intent. If you choose to expose yourself to influences that eventually determine your sexual preference, then you are choosing to be gay.[/spoiler]
children don't grow up choosing their families, or where they live (at least not before they hit puberty, which is when i think homosexuality would really start to show up in most people, since it's when most people become attracted to girls). there are scores of events that happen in a young childs life that they have no control over, but could impact their future behavior all the same.
This is sooo gay - A Black Falcon - 7th April 2003
Quote: while you have disproven that engaging in gay acts is not genetic, you have done absolutely nothing to prove that homosexual attraction is not genetic, and i don't think there's any evidence to disprove it.
Exactly. How that disproves anything to do with genetics affecting if you are homosexually attracted or heterosexually attracted is just beyond my comprehension..
Quote:children don't grow up choosing their families, or where they live (at least not before they hit puberty, which is when i think homosexuality would really start to show up in most people, since it's when most people become attracted to girls). there are scores of events that happen in a young childs life that they have no control over, but could impact their future behavior all the same.
That's true too, but I very much doubt that that has as much impact as genetics...
This is sooo gay - Sacred Jellybean - 7th April 2003
Yeah, Weltall, there's a difference between an act of homosexuality and being turned on by an act of homosexuality. As you said, you, I, and anyone else with the PHYSICAL CAPABILITY can go and have sex with a guy. On the other hand, this is merely physical, and doesn't take into consideration any emotional or mental motivation that a person has to have sex. You could go and toss a guy's salad from dusk till dawn, but does that mean you'll get off on it? Of course not... same with homosexuals: they have the physical capability of having sex the way society tells them they should, but that doesn't mean they'll enjoy it. That's their whole motivation for having sex with a member in the same gender in the first place, and it must be pretty damned big if they're willing to alienate homophobic family members/friends to engage in it.
One may abstain from sex all s/he pleases, but that doesn't make the sex drive go away. If that were true, I'd never have any need for masturbation... which also blows my mind...
Oh, and you could also say, "Well, if you decided to no longer have sexual attraction towards women or anything, then you wouldn't masturbate, and you'd be asexual!" Simply wishing my sex drive to go away won't make it, though... it's an instinct that I couldn't ignore if I tried. I could abstain from acting on it, and I could tell myself that I don't want to have sex, but I'd be living a lie.Tell me that you could successfully be gay, have anal sex with guys every night, make yourself like it a LOT, and transform into a homosexual, and then I'll see where you're coming from with this whole decision angle.
This is sooo gay - alien space marine - 8th April 2003
Their are men who enjoy it even though they admit their attracted to woman.
:shake: there have fun with that Image.
This is sooo gay - Darunia - 8th April 2003
I think that perhaps there is a recessvie genetic trait that does wind up turning people homosexual...but I also believe, and to a stronger extent, that trauma or environment can and do have a heavy hand as well.
This is sooo gay - Weltall - 8th April 2003
Quote:Originally posted by big guy
while you have disproven that engaging in gay acts is not genetic, you have done absolutely nothing to prove that homosexual [b]attraction is not genetic, and i don't think there's any evidence to disprove it.[/quote[/b]
Sure there is. That falls under the simple high school science/psychology thing: You aren't born with preferences. You aren't born with a favorite food, you aren't born a rock fan, you aren't born with long hair or a beard, you aren't born knowing you like to swim or run or do yoga, you aren't born liking to read, you aren't born liking to drink Pepsi. You aren't even born loving your own mother, that happens because you become attached to the person who cares for you most in your earliest days, and if that person is someone other than your mother, then they get the motherly treatment from you. How on earth can you tell me that none of this can happen, yet you pop out of the womb secure in the knowledge you'll be gay or straight in twenty years? Physical or simple attraction, that's utterly ridiculous. Newborn infants are not capable of that. If you aren't born knowing your own mother from Jane Doe, how can you possibly expect me to believe you are born knowing whether to screw guys or women? Its preposterous.
[quote]Yeah, Weltall, there's a difference between an act of homosexuality and being turned on by an act of homosexuality. As you said, you, I, and anyone else with the PHYSICAL CAPABILITY can go and have sex with a guy. On the other hand, this is merely physical, and doesn't take into consideration any emotional or mental motivation that a person has to have sex. You could go and toss a guy's salad from dusk till dawn, but does that mean you'll get off on it? Of course not... same with homosexuals: they have the physical capability of having sex the way society tells them they should, but that doesn't mean they'll enjoy it. That's their whole motivation for having sex with a member in the same gender in the first place, and it must be pretty damned big if they're willing to alienate homophobic family members/friends to engage in it.
One may abstain from sex all s/he pleases, but that doesn't make the sex drive go away. If that were true, I'd never have any need for masturbation... which also blows my mind... Oh, and you could also say, "Well, if you decided to no longer have sexual attraction towards women or anything, then you wouldn't masturbate, and you'd be asexual!" Simply wishing my sex drive to go away won't make it, though... it's an instinct that I couldn't ignore if I tried. I could abstain from acting on it, and I could tell myself that I don't want to have sex, but I'd be living a lie.
Tell me that you could successfully be gay, have anal sex with guys every night, make yourself like it a LOT, and transform into a homosexual, and then I'll see where you're coming from with this whole decision angle.
The fact of the matter is, if you have sex with another man, you are gay. There aren't many people out there who would think you were straight knowing you did that. Granted, there's a difference between those who experiment and those who fully embrace the lifestyle, but that's a difference of resolve. I couldn't become a homosexual because it clashes with my morals, my beliefs, and because I find it disgusting BUT, my morals, beliefs and feelings of disgust were not genetically encoded into me. If my life had been different in several ways I could have just as likely grown to the age of 21 and have been gay. Genetics have nothing to do with how much you like something. If this were a matter of genetics, it would not be 'gay or straight', it would be 'sex or no sex'. Having a raw sex drive is genetic, something living beings need to reproduce. Having a specific sex drive is not genetic. That comes from experience and choices.
Quote:Originally Posted by A Black Falcon:
blah blah blah no proof blah blah blah
This is sooo gay - A Black Falcon - 8th April 2003
Quote:The fact of the matter is, if you have sex with another man, you are gay. There aren't many people out there who would think you were straight knowing you did that. Granted, there's a difference between those who experiment and those who fully embrace the lifestyle, but that's a difference of resolve. I couldn't become a homosexual because it clashes with my morals, my beliefs, and because I find it disgusting BUT, my morals, beliefs and feelings of disgust were not genetically encoded into me. If my life had been different in several ways I could have just as likely grown to the age of 21 and have been gay. Genetics have nothing to do with how much you like something. If this were a matter of genetics, it would not be 'gay or straight', it would be 'sex or no sex'. Having a raw sex drive is genetic, something living beings need to reproduce. Having a specific sex drive is not genetic. That comes from experience and choices.
That is completely absurd. You are not homosexual just because you do that... being homosexual means you find the same gender attractive. It has nothing to do with whether or who you have sex with...
Oh, and how can you be so sure that there is nothing genetic in it? Its not like we know what all of our genes do yet, so you can't be sure... not until the gene is 100% decoded and understood, which will take quite a while... and honestly you don't make sense. Sure, reproduction is the purpose of it... but why couldn't there be something that, if it ends up a specific way (one gene? some combonation of settings? I don't know), means that the creature (any animal) is attracted to the same gender... it obviously isn't the 'normal' thing, but all kinds of genetic things aren't the 'normal' thing...
This is sooo gay - Weltall - 8th April 2003
Quote:Originally posted by A Black Falcon
That is completely absurd. You are not homosexual just because you do that... being homosexual means you find the same gender attractive. It has nothing to do with whether or who you have sex with...
Oh man... I'd pound my head on my desk if you didn't deserve it more... If homosexuality only describes emotions and nothing to do with sex, why then is it called HomoSEXUALITY? Come on now, you're being incredibly absurd here. For the sake of mankind I hope you're not a science major in college
Quote:Oh, and how can you be so sure that there is nothing genetic in it? Its not like we know what all of our genes do yet, so you can't be sure... not until the gene is 100% decoded and understood, which will take quite a while... and honestly you don't make sense. Sure, reproduction is the purpose of it... but why couldn't there be something that, if it ends up a specific way (one gene? some combonation of settings? I don't know), means that the creature (any animal) is attracted to the same gender... it obviously isn't the 'normal' thing, but all kinds of genetic things aren't the 'normal' thing... [/B]
The simple answer is because we've mapped 90% of the human genome, and there have been no genes at all that have been found to determine preferences. None. Nor have there been any genes that have been found to determine emotions. There is 10% of the genome left unmapped but if we've found no traces of any of this in the other 90%, I doubt all of it (or any of it) resides in that remaining 10%.
This is sooo gay - A Black Falcon - 8th April 2003
Look. Sure, sexuality includes that, yeah... but that doesn't affect who you have feelings for very much, and that's what is important here... and unlike actions, feelings aren't an opinion or something you can control... you can keep them hidden inside, but not control them there...
This is sooo gay - Darunia - 8th April 2003
I see light to both sides here... and I think you're BOTH RIGHT, genetically and environmentally speaking. Why can't we just agree that both angles are right and effect people at the same time? We don't know if it's genetic or not, let's face it; we can only speculate at this time.
This is sooo gay - alien space marine - 8th April 2003
I think some of you should be Politicians.
Now lets move on to Abortion.
This is sooo gay - WhiteFleck - 8th April 2003
I got to wondering.
Could genes determine things beyond what gender we find attractive, down to things such as skinny or plump, blonde or brunette, hair up or hair back, all sorts of different things. How much of our life is determined by our genes?
I would say genes affect physical things, like body type and brain chemistry. Attraction seems to be more a reaction to what society says, whether the reaction is to conform or rebel.
But ahh, whatever, it's not like knowing would change how we act..or would it??
This is sooo gay - Darunia - 8th April 2003
You make some good points, White Fleck. I think it's more society and events in early child hood that impresses it upon people....more that than the possibility of genes.
This is sooo gay - Weltall - 8th April 2003
Quote:Originally posted by A Black Falcon
Look. Sure, sexuality includes that, yeah... but that doesn't affect who you have feelings for very much, and that's what is important here... and unlike actions, feelings aren't an opinion or something you can control... you can keep them hidden inside, but not control them there...
You can change your feelings too. People do it all the time, if they didn't, who would need a divorce lawyer? You can be madly in love with a person and later absolutely dispise them. And feelings, all feelings, are born from life experience, NOT genetics. You are born with very basic emotions. You know HOW to love, hate, be happy or afraid, but you are not born knowing who or what to love, hate, be happy for or be afraid of.
I just can't give any credence to the genetic side because it's scientifically unsound. It's far too anomolous to be true.
This is sooo gay - Sacred Jellybean - 8th April 2003
Quote:Oh man... I'd pound my head on my desk if you didn't deserve it more... If homosexuality only describes emotions and nothing to do with sex, why then is it called HomoSEXUALITY? Come on now, you're being incredibly absurd here. For the sake of mankind I hope you're not a science major in college
The emotional and mental aspects of a homosexual are much more relevant to that person's behavior. A closet homosexual has the capability of living in denial and veiling his/her true self, but that doesn't keep him/her from being attracted to the same sex. Furthermore, no matter how much you abstain from the activity and refuse yourself to physically experiment, it'll always be there. The quote I gave you from the male on the other message board said he first felt how he did when he was 12 years old- an age where peers of his are spouting "faggot" every five words. You'd think that he would have converted with society's will; yet today, emotionally, he still has an attraction to other males.
Quote:I see light to both sides here... and I think you're BOTH RIGHT, genetically and environmentally speaking. Why can't we just agree that both angles are right and effect people at the same time? We don't know if it's genetic or not, let's face it; we can only speculate at this time.
Agreed... the whole genetic/behavioral debate is tiresome. I'm arguing in favor that homosexuality isn't a choice. It's quite possible that the trait can be behavioral, yet still not be a conscious choice.
Quote:You can change your feelings too. People do it all the time, if they didn't, who would need a divorce lawyer? You can be madly in love with a person and later absolutely dispise them.
Sexuality is more deeply-rooted than feelings towards one particular person. Sexuality refers to very basic traits that lead an individual feeling sexually attracted when they witness specific stimuli. And considering men and women are so very different, is it so difficult to believe that one will feel a much stronger emotional connection to one than the other? Homosexuality not only includes strong sexual attraction, but strong emotional attraction. The two go hand-in-hand.
That's also why there are fetishes, which I think aren't as deeply-rooted as gender-specific sexuality, but are in the same ball park. And who could change that at will? Who could say to themselves, "Well... I've been sexually attracted towards women all my life, but I think I'd get more action if I were attracted towards animals. So out of this efficiency alone, from this day forward, I will be a bestial! Not only will I engage in this activity, but I'll absolutely LOVE IT!" It just isn't that simple...
This is sooo gay - Weltall - 8th April 2003
Quote: Agreed... the whole genetic/behavioral debate is tiresome. I'm arguing in favor that homosexuality isn't a choice. It's quite possible that the trait can be behavioral, yet still not be a conscious choice.Well, I can allow for that. Acting on your feelings is definitely a choice, which is what I've said all along, but my main beef here is with the idea that your emotions and sexual preference is based on your genes.
This is sooo gay - Darunia - 9th April 2003
We have achieved peace in our time!
This is sooo gay - Nintendarse - 9th April 2003
Weltall, did you even skim the APA amicus brief? If you forgot to read it, it's still there. I think it puts forth convincing argument that, decision or not, homosexual people should have the same rights as anyone else. It also touches on the decision element.
But I guess the wrinkle at hand is the conciousness of such a decision.
Can you please explain further this quote: "If you choose to expose yourself to influences that eventually determine your sexual preference, then you are choosing to be gay."
What does that mean? What "influences" could one choose to expose oneself to make that person gay? There has been extensive research supporting the common understanding that smoking cigarettes causes lung cancer, but what inlfuences do you think might make someone turn gay? In addition, I'd like to know what kind of consequences being gay carries? By the examples you choose, it seems like it would be something horrible like eternal damnation. I mean, assuming it's a choice, let's say it's like choosing a favorite ice cream flavor. Does it make sense to chastise and descriminate against people that prefer vanilla?
This is sooo gay - alien space marine - 9th April 2003
there is a difference between sex and Vanilla ,
One Issue is being children raised by homosexuals who miss out in having a Father or a mother figure in there life.(many gays even admit it)
another issue who is head of the household? Two equals = split broken decisions.
To me if you feel Incest is ok then ,thats disgusting.....
It ruins the family structure and also causes defects in children born from incest.
Sexuality must have boundries as Abuse has lead to such things as HIV and Hepititus a-c. Some viruses effecting people were orginaly limited to animals untill sombody decided to have sex with an animal (beastiality).
This is sooo gay - WhiteFleck - 9th April 2003
I'm not sure if society exactly condoned sex with monkeys, so I'm not sure that would relate to limiting homosexual acts. Seems kind of odd, but maybe I missed your point.
This is sooo gay - Nintendarse - 23rd April 2003
Anyone hear what Senator Santorum said? It relates to what we're talking about.
Quoting the NYTimes:
If the Supreme Court endorses a right to consensual gay sex within the home, he said, "then you have the right to bigamy, you have the right to polygamy, you have the right to incest, you have the right to adultery. You have the right to anything."
This is sooo gay - alien space marine - 24th April 2003
sad but true , as there are some trying to get rights to child porn.
This is sooo gay - A Black Falcon - 24th April 2003
Equating homosexuality with those things is extreme racism... there is NO way that he should be allowed to get off and keep his leadership position.
This is sooo gay - -_____- - 17th May 2003
Silly faggot, dicks are for chicks.