+- Tendo City (https://www.tendocity.net)
+-- Forum: Tendo City: Metropolitan District (https://www.tendocity.net/forumdisplay.php?fid=4)
+--- Forum: Tendo City (https://www.tendocity.net/forumdisplay.php?fid=42)
+--- Thread: The "I GOT WIND WAKER!!!" thread (/showthread.php?tid=458)
The "I GOT WIND WAKER!!!" thread - OB1 - 25th March 2003
I mean you can prefer the style of OoT over that in WW, but the visuals are extremely primitive compared to today's games.
The "I GOT WIND WAKER!!!" thread - CartoonDevil - 25th March 2003
They had a shooting sword of sorts in MM. Not as cool as ALttP, but still.
OB1, you seem very obstinate to me. It's okay if someone has an opinion that differs from your own. And guess what. Your opinions aren't always right. Nobody's are 100% of the time.
The "I GOT WIND WAKER!!!" thread - Sacred Jellybean - 26th March 2003
It's something you kinda gotta get used to, CartoonDevil... he's been more aggressive recently, so don't let him scare you off. Just take a step back and say to yourself "Remember, it's only OB1... I can't win." Kinda like a bad dream. :p
The "I GOT WIND WAKER!!!" thread - Dark Jaguar - 26th March 2003
Still loving this game. You know OB1, even Nintendo can't go against the new ordinance regarding celtic music. EVERYTHING has to have a celtic music theme now, and I mean EVERYTHING. I mean, like since the first LOTR movie, I have yet to see anything that doesn't have a celtic theme. You know, I think Metal Gear Ghost Babel will likely have a celtic theme :D. Imagine infiltrating some place with THAT kind of music.
OOT is what reminded me the most of Peter Pan. I mean really, a land of children who never grow up, a fairy following Link, the boy in green with a knife for a weapon, and... and a bunch of other stuff!
I'll say this, the hints are still way too obvious in my opinion, but yes it's nice that the buzz is a lot less annoying to the point where you feel you MUST stop the noise. It would be nice if you had to go to the hint giver instead of it going to you. That would be a nice improovement. Just pop in whenever you are hopelessly stuck, but if you don't want to do that, you can simply not do it without fear of temptation buzzing your rumble pack constantly.
OB1, you and me both want to see a new Zelda game continuing after Zelda 2. At long last, the story would finally catch up to what is storyline-chronologically the last game in the series. With that Link as adult form, would they reuse Zelda 2's Link, or make a brand new Link a few generations from then who starts as a child? Likely the latter.
The "I GOT WIND WAKER!!!" thread - CartoonDevil - 26th March 2003
Thanks for the tip JellyBean. ;) I'll try to remember that.
I think the hint system should have been like Metroid Prime, where you can turn it on and off. That way, for those of us that don't want it, we don't have to hear/feel it. People who need it can turn the feature on.
The "I GOT WIND WAKER!!!" thread - A Black Falcon - 26th March 2003
Yup, more classic OB1... the standard absolute refusal to even consider that anyone else's opinion is anything other than completely wrong, and not just a NON-OBJECTIVE OPINION...
Oh, and I would have thought that you knew that by 'graphics' I refer to the style and presentation, not quality... why would quality of graphics hurt immersion in the way I mean it? I don't see how it would... and OoT is still nice looking.
The "I GOT WIND WAKER!!!" thread - Dark Jaguar - 26th March 2003
DON'T remind me of the hint system in Metroid Prime. I had no idae that scanning information WAS the hint system, and neither did LL. I for one thought that "hint mode" was just some cheesy way to describe how to use moves as I got them. At least that's exactly what hint modes in other games did. It wasn't until I actually beat the game that I was informed that "hint mode" actually had something to do with the random map scans I got every once in a while. Fortunatly those scans often merely informed me of a save point or just told me to go somewhere I was already heading towards anyway. Usually the most they did was help me judge how close I was to wherever I was heading. Certainly it should have been "off" by default, or at least fully explained. Oh well...
Anyway, I was thinking more of a Phantasmagoria style hint system (that game actually really sucked, and totally failed to frighten, but it had a good hint system idea). Place an item in the menu you can select and activate from the menu for hints, and leave it at that.
The "I GOT WIND WAKER!!!" thread - A Black Falcon - 26th March 2003
Adventure games shouldn't have hint systems... they should make you buy the strategy guide! (or use a FAQ if you're smart... :) ) Escape from Monkey Island included a basic, but complete, guide to how to solve the game though...
Oh, and I thought that the Metroid Prime hint system was very useful to give me more direction on where I'm supposed to be going... I don't exactly enjoy aimlessly wandering around...
The "I GOT WIND WAKER!!!" thread - CartoonDevil - 26th March 2003
Okay, Dark Jaguar, your thoughts on the Metroid Prime hint system has some merit.
An object in the inventory is a good idea. Another idea is to have a hint system like in Link's Awakening. For overworld hints, you'd call Ulrira. For in dungeon hints, you'd collect the stone tablet. You never had to use the tablet or the telephone if you didn't choose to. That would be a great idea.
The "I GOT WIND WAKER!!!" thread - A Black Falcon - 26th March 2003
Yeah, LA had a very good help system... though they dumbed it down a bit too much in LADX -- remember how LA had one stone tablet message in each dungeon, but DX has several of those stone owls (which replace tablets) in each dungeon, with different messages on each one... it does make the game a lot easier, and it didn't really need that...
The "I GOT WIND WAKER!!!" thread - Dark Jaguar - 26th March 2003
Yeah I noticed extra hint statues too, but at least you could ignore those. Well, not really, not if you are so obsessed with having perfect game files you desire to do EVERYTHING you can possibly do except "negative" stuff like being labelled a thief.
The "I GOT WIND WAKER!!!" thread - OB1 - 26th March 2003
And as per usual, the idiots at Tendo City misunderstand everything that I say.
It's not just my subjective opinion that WW has better graphics than OoT. It's an objective fact. Unless of course by graphics you only mean "visual presentation", but in that case you should have said that in the first place. You, ABF, need to learn how to communicate your thoughts better. You're also an extremely big hypocrite for saying that WW isn't immersive without even playing the game. Classic ABF.
The "I GOT WIND WAKER!!!" thread - CartoonDevil - 26th March 2003
I was looking at the night sky while on the High Seas, and I noticed a constellation that looked like Orion. The sun rose just after I spotted Orion, so I didn't get to look to see if there were any other recognizable constalations. Anybody else noticed this type of thing?
The "I GOT WIND WAKER!!!" thread - A Black Falcon - 26th March 2003
Look. True, in just graphics quality level WW is obviously better... but I'm talking about how the style works...
By "the graphics" I was trying to not have to write that whole long series of posts I just wrote a week or two ago... but I guess I'll have to write more.
I would think you'd know some of my opinions by now... that the graphics look great for their style, and that the cartoon look is very convincing... but that I just think that that cartoon style, when applied to Zelda, doesn't allow for the same possibilities of immersion... you could think you're in a cartoon, sure, but OoT did more than that... with this graphic style for me it just doesn't work on that level. While this cartoon look is perfect for some things I just can't see it as a good representation of Zelda... and can't get immersed in it to the same extent, no matter what happens in the game itsself.
And I can't help but think about how much better it would look in a realistic style... sure doesn't help any...
Is it still a great game? Yeah, of course...
The "I GOT WIND WAKER!!!" thread - CartoonDevil - 26th March 2003
Holy crap, the Great Fairys look gay. I think I preferred the Hooker look of the N64 games.
The "I GOT WIND WAKER!!!" thread - OB1 - 26th March 2003
You are one serious homophobe. "Link looks gay. Link moves gay. Those fairies are gay."
And ABF, I am truley sorry that you can't appreciate the look of Wind Waker. You are truley missing out on an incredible experience.
BTW, I consider Link's Awaikening to be even more immersive than OoT or MM, and that's not even a 3D game.
The "I GOT WIND WAKER!!!" thread - CartoonDevil - 26th March 2003
When I say gay, I don't usually mean homosexual.
Gay = Stupid. It's a figure of speach, numbskull.<B>
(No, I don't really mean that you have no feeling in or around your skull).</B>
*Steals OB1's soul*
The "I GOT WIND WAKER!!!" thread - OB1 - 26th March 2003
Uh-huh, suure.
The "I GOT WIND WAKER!!!" thread - OB1 - 26th March 2003
And about those comments about WW being linear, I didn't notice that you couldn't go to certain areas because I never tried to. But the vastness of the ocean, along with all of the little islands and ships along the way make it seem very nonlinear. I'm glad that the overworld is so huge, even if it is kind of cheating in that they basically just spread everything far apart. It certainly makes it feel more epic than the small map from OoT and MM. In those games you had to use your imagination and imagine the world outside of the game, otherwise if felt like you were just saving an area the size of down-town Fort Collins.
The "I GOT WIND WAKER!!!" thread - alien space marine - 26th March 2003
Is Darunia in wind waker?
The "I GOT WIND WAKER!!!" thread - CartoonDevil - 26th March 2003
The "I GOT WIND WAKER!!!" thread - big guy - 26th March 2003
my opinion on WW so far. i've just beaten the second dungeon and gone back to windfall island, to give you an idea of what i've seen so far.
my opinion on the game is as follows:
the graphics style is deffinately pretty rad, but i have yet to see anywhere, anything that couldn't be done with an OoT graphics style. not even links faces, which have made me chuckle on occasion, seem undoable in OoT's style. in fact, i've felt that the mood of the game is dark enough that OOT style graphics would actually suit it better. it's not MM, but the mood is very much like the first half of OoT (the young link "half"). this all hit me at one point when i was like "link looks totally out of place for what is going on in the game."
anyway, i'm betting that this post is going to be like throwing gasoline on the fire, but i feel now, more than ever, after having played the game, that the OoT style would be an improvement. not because it would give the game a different mood, but because it would fit the mood of this game better.
The "I GOT WIND WAKER!!!" thread - Sacred Jellybean - 26th March 2003
The "I GOT WIND WAKER!!!" thread - A Black Falcon - 26th March 2003
LA more immersive than OoT? What about the other zelda games? LttP? I don't know... LA was definitely immersive but OoT was even better that way... but LA does do a great job at it.
The "I GOT WIND WAKER!!!" thread - OB1 - 26th March 2003
The "I GOT WIND WAKER!!!" thread - A Black Falcon - 26th March 2003
Since LA was my first Zelda game I of course have very good memories of it... it was just such an incredibly great game... I mean I like Game Boy games, but that one was on a whole other level...
The "I GOT WIND WAKER!!!" thread - CartoonDevil - 26th March 2003
Well, I can guess who the dumbfuck was that edited my last post.
The "I GOT WIND WAKER!!!" thread - OB1 - 26th March 2003
The "I GOT WIND WAKER!!!" thread - big guy - 27th March 2003
but in OoT link had big eyes, expecially young link. the eyes would be plently big enough toi show the emotions that this game shows. and i'm not talking about using the OoT engine, they could use the wind waker engine and just design the characters differently, and the world. the cell shading can stay.
i guess i just don't agree with you OB1, i still feel that you could replace everything in this game with OoT style graphics (cell shaded is fine though, making it more of a hybrid), and have a game that works in every way as well, and in some ways better.
the problem for me with this link comes at the times of drama, where i want it to be dramatic, but i find link too ridiculous looking to take it seriously. it's then that i wish for the OoT style graphics.
The "I GOT WIND WAKER!!!" thread - Dark Jaguar - 27th March 2003
That's how I viewed him too, but now I'm seeing Link as being pretty much a living wall mural. Everything else really has that look too. Look at the design of the centipede monsters and compare them to old world monster drawings. For that matter compare the drawings of Ganon at the very start to that style. They couldn't have made it more obvious unless they had the last picture of current day boys being dressed in green fade to the real world with our hero in the same pose (which they likely would have done except Link starts out in some sort of sailor outfit). When you view him as he was intended, a classical old world artistic style painting on a pot or something brought to life, you can take him a lot more seriously. The long arms with the somewhat angular yet curved bend (not sure how to say that) REALLY resembles the way the arms of egyption drawings of people looked, with that same deformation of really long and bending in the same style. The size and shape of his head (football head) resembles... well I can't quite place it but I remember seeing the style on some island culture I saw on Discovery a while back. The shortness of the characters resembles the shortness of people in aztec drawings (or the shortness of Japanese super deformed style :D). It's like all sorts of legendary artistic styles of the past rolled into one, and the more I look at it the more bits of style of the past I can see. The way the waves look and the way the wind and smoke look also resemble certain greek drawings. It may look ridiculous in the total lack of any context to compare it to, but when you do start comparing, you really notice that far from bad design, this actually reflects very GOOD artistic ability on the modeller's part. I'm not going as far as to say this is my favorite looking Link of all time, I love all the styles he's had through the ages pretty equally. I also won't go as far as to say this is the "best representation" since I find all the styles represent Link quite well, just very differently. I also submit that in the future a different artistic style should be pursued (originating again, coming up with yet another style) and that maybe this should be a one time style.
You know, I also look at the...look of four swords, and notice it's got the same overall style of being similar to old world drawing about it. In fact, many of the symbols seem very old world style. Vaati itself seems to look like many shadowy creatures from old legendary vases full of pictures.
Anyway, the only problem I had from the start was the modelling. Actually, if some of you recall, it was only the humanoids I had a problem with. The monsters and surroundings for some reason didn't bother me and seemed fine. Now that I realize the most likely intentions (and if it wasn't intentional, wow what a coincidence) were this, and looking at it with this outlook the modelling is really nice. They really need to advertise this though. The best thing would be the whole "fade to real world" thing after showing some wall full of legendary murals. Even better considering this IS America we are talking about would be to do that WHILE actually stating it blatently.
The "I GOT WIND WAKER!!!" thread - OB1 - 27th March 2003
big guy: The emotions don't rest soley in the eyes; it's in the animations as well. Sure they could do it with a realistic look, but it wouldn't look half as good.
And I don't know why you can't take anything seriously because of the look. There are plenty of serious parts in this game and I found them to be several times more convincing as the ones in OoT or MM. I mean, do you not watch anime for the same reasons?
I really feel sorry for those of you that decided to hate the look from the very beginning. Your closed minds will make you miss out on the full impact of one of the best games ever made. Instead of enjoying the incredible art style for what it is, you'll just be thinking "God, I wish it looked like the SW demo blah blah blah". Your loss. Your very, very big loss.
The "I GOT WIND WAKER!!!" thread - A Black Falcon - 27th March 2003
But its Zelda... its not at its best style-wise when its done in anime style imo...
Oh, and yeah it didn't take me that long (after noting that the graphics were indeed better looking when you play the game than in pictures) that the game could have looked so much better if done in a realistic style...
The "I GOT WIND WAKER!!!" thread - OB1 - 27th March 2003
*tsk tsk tsk*
Too bad for you.
The "I GOT WIND WAKER!!!" thread - N_A - 27th March 2003
The look isn't distracting me from the game, its got a cheerful outlook.... kind of odd for a Zelda game but ok, nonetheless. My gripe is that its NOT CHALLENGING !!!!
The "I GOT WIND WAKER!!!" thread - Nintendarse - 27th March 2003
I got Wind Waker yesterday, and it has been the cause of my absence.
But while I was away, I see someone reopened a topic that we agreed to bury. What did I tell you about staying away from sharp topics?
The "I GOT WIND WAKER!!!" thread - OB1 - 27th March 2003
Pff, shut up.
And NA, the game gets more challenging after you get the three pearls. It's still easy by Zelda standards, but it's not too bad.
The "I GOT WIND WAKER!!!" thread - Dark Jaguar - 27th March 2003
I go as far as to say those reviews were wrong about the challenge. I've gotten stuck a few times already, and am currently stumped as to how to proceed in the second dungeon here (stupid thing on a treasure chest a million meters above the ground...). However, I will say that, as is the case for me in most Zelda games, I've been solving a few puzzles completely by accident. Ever have something weird sequence of jumping and panic and attack that somehow ends in that door opening? That happened to me a while ago, and I had to sit down and analyze the whole situation before I figured out just WHAT I did.
The "I GOT WIND WAKER!!!" thread - CartoonDevil - 27th March 2003
Quote: I mean, do you not watch anime for the same reasons?
Anime is just a nice name for CRAPanimation. :) Take, for example, DragonBall Z. A <B>very</B> poorly animated cartoon with very little real story, and a bunch of "fighting" that doesn't even begin to be interesting. All Goku does is grunt and "train". I'd rather watch an ant farm than anime.
Link's model would have been far more appealing to the general public, and much better for the game (in my opinion) if they had used a style (for the character model) similar to that in the N64 games.
The "I GOT WIND WAKER!!!" thread - A Black Falcon - 27th March 2003
Quote:Anime is just a nice name for CRAPanimation. Take, for example, DragonBall Z. A very poorly animated cartoon with very little real story, and a bunch of "fighting" that doesn't even begin to be interesting. All Goku does is grunt and "train". I'd rather watch an ant farm than anime.
I'd recommend you hide now... :)
Quote:Link's model would have been far more appealing to the general public, and much better for the game (in my opinion) if they had used a style (for the character model) similar to that in the N64 games.
That is true.
The "I GOT WIND WAKER!!!" thread - Great Rumbler - 27th March 2003
Quote:Originally posted by CartoonDevil
Anime is just a nice name for CRAPanimation. :) Take, for example, DragonBall Z. A <B>very</B> poorly animated cartoon with very little real story, and a bunch of "fighting" that doesn't even begin to be interesting. All Goku does is grunt and "train". I'd rather watch an ant farm than anime.
You crossed the line with that comment, son. Only a pitiful and ignorant fool would take DBZ as an example of what anime is like. I know that you can easily find a hundred people who will declare straight faced that DBZ is the best anime ever, but if you take out the people who haven't seen any other animes the remaining number will be much lower. Cowboy Bebop, Trigun, Princess Mononoke, Neon Genesis Evangelion, Excel Saga, Nadesico, Spirited Away, and oh so many others are very, very good examples of what anime is.
The "I GOT WIND WAKER!!!" thread - OB1 - 27th March 2003
Find me one single American movie made within the past five years that's even half as touching as "Grave of the Fireflies". You're a fool, CartoonDevil. Your Zelda comments only reinforce that fact.
The "I GOT WIND WAKER!!!" thread - Dark Jaguar - 27th March 2003
Yeah, it's all good, though DB/Z/GT is the worst example I can possibly think of. It's exactly as you said, something desperatly trying to have a "story" but in the end it's just an action show. The only reason I watch it at all is for the fight scenes. Oh, and I'd go as far as to say that at times the animation on that show is quite nice (not DB, that looks aweful). It's the same style used by Chrono Trigger (being drawn by the same guy) and it looks pretty good if you ask me.
However, the thing is, I'm afraid that was all flame bait. I know EXACTLY how OB1 will respond. First he'll call you a moron (this may be saved for the last part), then he will insult DB to the best of his ability to make clear to you that that's not what most anime is like, then he will follow up by saying "Watch some REAL anime, like *insert listing of various quality shows plus some show I think sucks to kinda throw off the validity of the list*", then he'll insult your intelligence again. Then he'll say "no wonder you don't like Wind Waker's style, you have no taste". Then he will finish you off with saying "I have lost all respect for you" even though he likely never had any to begin with, making the insult totally hollow. Finally, he'll insult your intelligence again. This is his standard template for defending anime in the face of someone insulting it via the only anime they have seen, DBZ.
The "I GOT WIND WAKER!!!" thread - OB1 - 27th March 2003
And then DJ will come in and try to be the narrator by explaining what just happened-- or at least his version of it-- just to get a rise out of that particular person.
:troll:
What should I have said? This guy has said nothing but idiotic things so far. First he calls everything "gay", then he calls anime crap like saying that DBZ sucks. "Link is so gay! Wind Waker is gay Forest Gump fag homo! Those fairies are gay! OMG they're faires what gay crap!!"
The "I GOT WIND WAKER!!!" thread - OB1 - 27th March 2003
And in case you were wondering, I was putting down his "gay Zelda" comments.
The "I GOT WIND WAKER!!!" thread - Sacred Jellybean - 27th March 2003
I was wondering. I wasn't sure whether or not the quotation marks were used simply for emphasizing the words in between them, the words belonging to you originally, of course.
Me fail English? That's unpersable!
The "I GOT WIND WAKER!!!" thread - Dark Jaguar - 27th March 2003
Actually I was typing that before you posted that... I had no idea I'd actually be correct, and it was just a joke Mr. Touchy. I meant for you to laugh at it, not get you upset.
Anyway, who's seeing Spirited Away on Friday?
The "I GOT WIND WAKER!!!" thread - Great Rumbler - 27th March 2003
Isn't Spirited Away going to start being shown nation-wide? If so, I must go see it!
In other, Zelda related, news: My brother bought Zelda:WW today. I'll have to wait till tomorrow to play it, though.
The "I GOT WIND WAKER!!!" thread - OB1 - 27th March 2003
I already saw Spirited Away in theaters last fall, but I'll probably see it again if one of the better theaters gets it. The last theater I saw it in had shit sound. The movie is coming out on DVD in a couple of weeks as well (along with two other awesome Miyazaki movies). I just hope they don't delay the DVD release because of the new theatrical run.
The "I GOT WIND WAKER!!!" thread - A Black Falcon - 27th March 2003
As I said... run while you can Cartoon Devil because idiotic flamebait posts like that aren't ignored much here...
Oh, and DBZ isn't that good, imo... the fights are alright but its not exactly a good show especially when compared to so many other vastly better shows...
The "I GOT WIND WAKER!!!" thread - Darunia - 27th March 2003
*Goron Empire acquires Winde Waker*
I got Wind Waker just tonight...and first played it at 10:02:46 pm, EST. After two hours, I'm in the Forbidden Fortress (very similar to that of the Gerudos'....). Did anyone notice at the beginning story book beginning, the small picture of what appears to be a goron...? Hehehe.