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+--- Thread: The Official Super Smash Bros. Brawl Thread - See you in March!! (/showthread.php?tid=4391)
The Official Super Smash Bros. Brawl Thread - See you in March!! - Dark Jaguar - 2nd October 2007
I'll say this. I play multiplayer games for the social interaction more than the game itself most of the time. Co-op, for me, is fun because my friends and I can make jokes about pretty much everything as we go along and share ideas and strategies and just have a good time, and also yell at each other for stupid stuff now and again. It's all part of the fun. It's why the old "alternating multiplayer" Super Mario games managed to be fun in spite of never actually playing at the same time as the other character. Watching your sibling and being able to talk to them while they are playing that one really tough level and then having your turn when they die and hearing their comments? That's what it is all about for me.
I do however play "blind" games against other people online sometimes, like a game of Starcraft where neither of us say a word the whole match. It is a challenge, and the online multiplayer is a much appreciated first step.
I want to make that clear. However, consider the Melee matches you played against your friends in real time. Wasn't it all the more fun for the comments on how crazy awesome or hilarious that last move was? Wasn't the social interaction what really brought it out? Nintendo themselves have said in the past that they considered that one of the main draws of any multiplayer experience and they weren't sure if that would translate to the online world.
There is where my criticism lies. That is what I consider paramount in having the best possible online experience, and Nintendo themselves were concerned. Unfortunatly, it would seem "protection" won out. The protection solution could have been implemented otherwise of course. A simple parental control to "turn off" online interaction in various games would be all that's needed. What that "off" means would be determined by each game of course, but that's the best method. In other words, such an excuse is wrong. Some here are familiar with a number of bad apples on XBox Live. Yeah, but again, you don't HAVE to have communication on. It isn't forced on you. If I'm in a match against an idiot, I do have the option of just playing with my headset off the whole match. The advantage is when I get in that match against the cool people, the funny ones maybe, and I get to have fun social interaction with strangers for a few minutes. Those sorts of matches make it worth it.
Nintendo made a good move by including online, and this is better than nothing. I certainly will be using it. However, the lack of the social element is a major disadvantage. This can't be denied. In the future I hope Nintendo takes their online support a lot further. Nintendo is certainly capable of it and I would be delighted to play with their own implementation of the other's services.
This is not an issue of "innovation". That's silly. There is nothing unique or original about this implementation. There is no shame at all in copying what has worked just fine for everyone else. If Nintendo CAN come up with an even better way for online interaction to work, that's great. Implement it then, but in the mean time, give us support using the currently very well implemented ways that others are doing. Don't claim innovation when it isn't even there.
Again, online is great, but they really do need to add more in the next game. They really should make it a major focus. Really, you all know what social interaction brings to the party. Don't pretend that element really wasn't all that big a deal. The most fun I've ever had playing games is when I'm with others, and that includes single player.
And THAT is how you do a DJ rant! Quoting random things I've said and a final judgement of "it's stupid" over and over don't cut it!
The Official Super Smash Bros. Brawl Thread - See you in March!! - A Black Falcon - 2nd October 2007
There isn't much to say other than "I completely agree"...
The Official Super Smash Bros. Brawl Thread - See you in March!! - EdenMaster - 3rd October 2007
I've said before that it could stand to be improved, yes.
And I agree with you that social interaction is a big part of online play, as I've made dozens of friends playing Counter Strike.
But the issue here is that ABF is willing to completely boycott playing Brawl online solely for this reason.
And that, to me, is foolish and stubborn.
The Official Super Smash Bros. Brawl Thread - See you in March!! - Dark Jaguar - 4th October 2007
Yeah I can see that. I think actually using it would at least send Nintendo the message that people want online play.
However, if he tried it and didn't like it and decided not to use it because of that, well I can respect that.
The Official Super Smash Bros. Brawl Thread - See you in March!! - A Black Falcon - 4th October 2007
It's not a boycott, it's simply not using a feature that isn't worth using.
The Official Super Smash Bros. Brawl Thread - See you in March!! - EdenMaster - 4th October 2007
"Isn't worth using?" Playing a Smash Bros. game online isn't worth using? The thought of Brawling with DJ, GR, DMiller, and/or I doesn't interest you in the least?
***ABF auto-response***
"Not without a bazillion more features. Otherwise it is totally unplayable and will give me cancer to try."
I get social interaction from playing online games. See? I play the games online and the social interaction is a bonus. A mere feature of a greater whole. The <i>GAME</i> is what's important, not whether or not you can hear a 12 year old scream into his mic, not so you can enjoy all the vulgar and racist trash that anonymity of an online game provides, not so I can meet asshole after asshole every server I go into. I play games online to enjoy the game, and to never know what to expect from my opponent. No matter what your deluded mind may think, no bot can ever match playing against a human being. Not even close. At least not in this gen, and probably not the next.
The fact that you can't see past this makes me very sad for you.
The Official Super Smash Bros. Brawl Thread - See you in March!! - Dark Jaguar - 4th October 2007
While I agree that I'll be using the online thing, that paragraph there sorta directly contradicts what you said the post above it..,
The Official Super Smash Bros. Brawl Thread - See you in March!! - EdenMaster - 5th October 2007
How so? I said that I enjoy social interaction on online games, but the reason I and everyone else is there is to actually play the game.
The Official Super Smash Bros. Brawl Thread - See you in March!! - Dark Jaguar - 5th October 2007
Well I mean one second you are saying you've made dozens of friends playing online games and consider the social element the main reason TO play multiplayer to begin with, and the next you say that the social element is no big deal and actually you consider most people online to be jerks you don't need to make friends with.
The Official Super Smash Bros. Brawl Thread - See you in March!! - EdenMaster - 5th October 2007
I never said it was the main reason to play. I said it was a big reason to play. I dont go into a server in Counter Strike to meet new friends. I go there to (STAY WITH ME HERE) play Counter-Strike. Any social interaction that comes with it is just icing on the cake.
And yes. The vast majority of the online gaming community ARE jerks. You're lucky to find a game with a civil person playing in it to befriend.
My entire point is that while it IS important and a major part of online gaming, the MAIN REASON any of us plays online is to <i>PLAY A GAME ONLINE.</i> Anything that comes with it, be it chat, friends list, or stat tracking is superfluous and nice to have, but not NECESSARY to play the game online.
The Official Super Smash Bros. Brawl Thread - See you in March!! - Dark Jaguar - 5th October 2007
I guess the thing is I don't just consider the social aspect icing, I consider it more like the flour.
If all I wanted to do was play a game, I'd play single player. When I play online, it isn't just to play the game, though that's part of it. The main reason I play a game online is the people.
The Official Super Smash Bros. Brawl Thread - See you in March!! - Great Rumbler - 5th October 2007
Man, it's always something with you guys, isn't it? First it was "oh, there's no reason to get excited because Nintendo doesn't care about online and they'd NEVER put it in SSBB" and now it's "oh, Nintendo hates online and so they'd NEVER put in the elements that I need in order to enjoy online play".
The Official Super Smash Bros. Brawl Thread - See you in March!! - Dark Jaguar - 5th October 2007
Thanks for completely misrepresenting my argument. Nice to know you bother to remember what I've actually said...
ABF's the one who said they'd never put online in there. I actually thought Nintendo was telling the truth and I was just wary of how they'd implement it. I don't think either of those... things. Seriously, do you ever read my posts? Do you run everything I say through some cognitive filter to make it the worst possible opinion I could possibly have? No really, I have no idea how you could have got that from what I said. It's like you read up until the first thing you disagree with and assume the rest.
At any rate, to lighten the mood I'll offer this:
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The Official Super Smash Bros. Brawl Thread - See you in March!! - EdenMaster - 5th October 2007
As I said. No AI or bot in a game today can match playing against a real person.
But I'm done talking about this. ABF is stubborn and missing out, and that's that. I'm not going any further with this OB!-esque argument when there is little point. Can we get back to Brawl news now?
The Official Super Smash Bros. Brawl Thread - See you in March!! - Sacred Jellybean - 5th October 2007
Excite Bike and Lakitu assist trophies! Landmaster final smash for Fox! Adventure Mode co-op! Hurray!
I wonder if they'll put in online co-op? Would that be wishful thinking?
The Official Super Smash Bros. Brawl Thread - See you in March!! - A Black Falcon - 9th October 2007
Quote:Man, it's always something with you guys, isn't it? First it was "oh, there's no reason to get excited because Nintendo doesn't care about online and they'd NEVER put it in SSBB" and now it's "oh, Nintendo hates online and so they'd NEVER put in the elements that I need in order to enjoy online play".
Yeah, I wasn't sure if they'd bother, but instead they just implemented it in a way that it's just about irrelevant. Oh well, I didn't expect any better...
Quote:ABF's the one who said they'd never put online in there. I actually thought Nintendo was telling the truth and I was just wary of how they'd implement it. I don't think either of those... things. Seriously, do you ever read my posts? Do you run everything I say through some cognitive filter to make it the worst possible opinion I could possibly have? No really, I have no idea how you could have got that from what I said. It's like you read up until the first thing you disagree with and assume the rest.
No, he was just acting like you were saying the exact same thing I was, which as you say isn't really true...
The Official Super Smash Bros. Brawl Thread - See you in March!! - Dark Jaguar - 9th October 2007
http://www.smashbros.com/en_us/characters/sonic.html
And here's another confirmed 3rd party character. Mario and Sonic have had like a billion rivals, and now finally they face their greatest, each other! This does basically mean one thing. That lackluster looking Olympics game? No need to get that any more (unless it ends up actually good).
Still though, I must know! Megaman? Teh Man of Mega? Will he be there? And, Simon Belmont? He should totally be there too! You know it to be true.
The Official Super Smash Bros. Brawl Thread - See you in March!! - Dark Jaguar - 10th October 2007
EM, I would have thought so but apparently online co-op is in!
http://wii.ign.com/articles/826/826130p1.html
Still though, I have to wonder how well it'll work if you can't communicate with the other person. I can just imagine playing co-op Halo 3 without communication, and it burns us.
Nintendo says they want to support online more, but from the sound of it they seem to mean technical support.
The Official Super Smash Bros. Brawl Thread - See you in March!! - Great Rumbler - 10th October 2007
MEGATON
The Official Super Smash Bros. Brawl Thread - See you in March!! - Sacred Jellybean - 10th October 2007
Ho-lee shit... who would have guessed a few years back that the Smash Bros. sequel would include Solid Snake and Sonic? This is like a dream come true.
I bet his Final Smash will be Blast Processing. :D
The Official Super Smash Bros. Brawl Thread - See you in March!! - Dark Jaguar - 10th October 2007
If you watch the video, you shall see his final smash yourself.
7 Chaos Emeralds, Super Sonic! Sure he's not quite Hyper Sonic, with 7 Super Chaos Emeralds, but that's not needed.
Ooh! Put Bart in there, so Mario Sonic and DK can convince him to steal a video game!
The Official Super Smash Bros. Brawl Thread - See you in March!! - Bo Jackson - 10th October 2007
boy I am so shocked at this announcement. NOE, eh? lol
The Official Super Smash Bros. Brawl Thread - See you in March!! - Dark Jaguar - 10th October 2007
NOE?
The Official Super Smash Bros. Brawl Thread - See you in March!! - A Black Falcon - 10th October 2007
Quote:Still though, I have to wonder how well it'll work if you can't communicate with the other person. I can just imagine playing co-op Halo 3 without communication, and it burns us.
My response to this is obvious... it won't work that well. Ever play the 2-player co-op boss rush online mode in Castlevania: Portrait of Ruin? Plenty of fun in one player or two player local wireless (where you can talk to the other player), but kind of stupid online...
The Official Super Smash Bros. Brawl Thread - See you in March!! - EdenMaster - 10th October 2007
A Black Falcon Wrote:My response to this is obvious... it won't work that well. Ever play the 2-player co-op boss rush online mode in Castlevania: Portrait of Ruin? Plenty of fun in one player or two player local wireless (where you can talk to the other player), but kind of stupid online...
Just...leave.
Well this is hugeness. Sonic was kind of a shoo-in. He had the most votes on Sakurai's suggestion site, and I'm fairly certain there are STILL people trying to unlock him in Melee by beating 20 Cruel opponents.
Huzzah! This game just keeps getting better and better.
You know? It's less than two months away. That means it's COUNTDOWN TIME!
54 Days!
The Official Super Smash Bros. Brawl Thread - See you in March!! - A Black Falcon - 10th October 2007
It was just delayed in Japan to mid-January, but not in the US, so far at least. It's less important to get it out before Christmas there...
As for Sonic, yeah, it's not surprising. I don't think it's that big a deal either, though... nice to see, sure. Big deal? Nah. The character selection is already pretty varied... (though I do have to note that so far the only newly announced female character is Zero Suit Samus, who isn't really a new character...) I wonder if the persistent rumors of Mega Man showing up in the game will come true too?
I'm not criticizing the game because I think it'll be bad or something, I'm sure it'll be a fantastic game... but it is okay to criticize bad parts of good games, EM, and the online part of this game, along with every other online game Nintendo has made so far on the Wii and DS, is bad at minimum and awful at worst. Excusing them for that would be wrong.
The Official Super Smash Bros. Brawl Thread - See you in March!! - EdenMaster - 10th October 2007
I'm not saying you'll think the game is going to be bad. If you thought that I would have come to your house and put you out of your misery long ago :D.
I'm not arguing on the online play anymore, you're obviously not going to budge.
My problem is with, upon hearing nothing but the smallest confirmation of such a feature, you're already damning it.
The Official Super Smash Bros. Brawl Thread - See you in March!! - A Black Falcon - 10th October 2007
Smallest confirmation? They laid out exactly how the system is going to work, and it actually went beyond my worst fears for what I thought they would do if they did online in the game (which I was, of course, skeptical about)... that is to say, I'd never have guessed that they'd actually REMOVE USERNAMES from the non-friends mode!
The Official Super Smash Bros. Brawl Thread - See you in March!! - Dark Jaguar - 11th October 2007
http://multiplayerblog.mtv.com/2007/10/11/smash-brothers-wii-delayed-until-febrary-in-the-us/#respond
Looks like the US version is getting delayed too, but really that's to be expected. Why would they only delay the Japanese version? If it had to be delayed because it was incomplete, well of course the US version would ALSO not be complete at that time.
Oh well, Mario Galaxy should suffice in the mean time. This also allows even more characters to be added. I'm still hoping for Megaman or Simon Belmont (or both). Simon Belmont is much more likely of course, since Nintendo is already working with Konami (and the fact is, Castlevania certainly fits in more with stuff like Zelda and Metroid than Solid Snake does). Megaman I can imagine lots of people begging for and I know Capcom has worked close with Nintendo before on Zelda games. Maybe Capcom would be up for it, but that's less likely. Still, I'd love for it to happen. They could get Namco to allow Pacman in there too, again though, off chance.
The biggest off chance, but one that would really make this closer to a "universal" gaming match up extravaganza, something from Square-Enix. I'm thinking some random Final Fantasy character (they did put a bunch of Final Fantasy "class representatives" into that Mario Basketball game), or maybe Sora, who fits into a "crossover" universe more than anyone possibly could.
And of course, I can't be accused of proper wishful thinking without mentioning Little Mac.
The Official Super Smash Bros. Brawl Thread - See you in March!! - Sacred Jellybean - 11th October 2007
Quote:If you watch the video, you shall see his final smash yourself.
It was a joke. "Blast Processing" was a loaded marketing term used by Sega to promote the Genesis. It's become a meme of sorts since. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blast_Processing
The Official Super Smash Bros. Brawl Thread - See you in March!! - Dark Jaguar - 11th October 2007
Yeah I remember the ad campaign. I haven't seen it all "i'm in yer base, sending your zigs" style plastered on the net though.
The Official Super Smash Bros. Brawl Thread - See you in March!! - EdenMaster - 11th October 2007
We don't have an emoticon that looks nearly frustrated enough.
*sigh*
Well if more characters are on the horizon, I do remember hearing that from Sakurai's suggestion site, the second most requested character was King Dedede, after Sonic. So maybe he's being added too. But still.
*place non-existant emoticon here*
The Official Super Smash Bros. Brawl Thread - See you in March!! - Dark Jaguar - 12th October 2007
For those that don't play much SSBM against other humans or just don't have much practice, I introduce this. Basically it's a very nicely put together video tutorial of all those advanced moves that you'd normally have to read instructions on.
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I'm not sure how much of this will translate to Brawl, but the idea is to give some people here a chance to learn some new techniques.
The Official Super Smash Bros. Brawl Thread - See you in March!! - Dark Jaguar - 12th October 2007
Why are ya frustrated EM? Lack of Geno?
The Official Super Smash Bros. Brawl Thread - See you in March!! - EdenMaster - 12th October 2007
Lack of game.
Oh, and patience.
The Official Super Smash Bros. Brawl Thread - See you in March!! - EdenMaster - 18th October 2007
Well, he's not playable, but he's an Assist Trophy. Little Mac is in!
The Official Super Smash Bros. Brawl Thread - See you in March!! - Dark Jaguar - 18th October 2007
Little Mac... LITTLE MAC! HE'S IN! HE CAN DO IT!
http://www.smashbros.com/en_us/items/assist/assist10.html
As an assist trophy? Don't tease me like that! Waaaaah!
Edit: That's in response to the writer of that article on the site, not EM. His post went up while I was typing mine so I didn't even see it.
Well it's certainly something at least. Still, for someone just so perfectly suited to a fighting game you'd think he would be a playable character.
Well we now know about where he comes in. Next up, where's the Mega? Where's the Belmont?
The Official Super Smash Bros. Brawl Thread - See you in March!! - Great Rumbler - 18th October 2007
Live-action SSBB? Or drug-induced nightmare?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ng6Rbja9TNY
You decide.
The Official Super Smash Bros. Brawl Thread - See you in March!! - Sacred Jellybean - 18th October 2007
What? They're not doing moves based on the actual characters' moves?
Booooooo. Good premise, bad execution. They got 43 seconds of my attention, but not a millisecond more.
![[Image: emot-colbert.gif]](http://i.somethingawful.com/forumsystem/emoticons/emot-colbert.gif)
The Official Super Smash Bros. Brawl Thread - See you in March!! - Great Rumbler - 18th October 2007
So I assume you missed where Luigi used fireballs, Kirby used his copy ability, Yoshi attacked people with his tongue, and the Pokemon Trainer used his Pokeballs, right?
The Official Super Smash Bros. Brawl Thread - See you in March!! - EdenMaster - 18th October 2007
Sacred Jellybean Wrote:What? They're not doing moves based on the actual characters' moves?
Booooooo. Good premise, bad execution. They got 43 seconds of my attention, but not a millisecond more.
*Insert picture of woman on Jeopardy with just "What" has her answer*
Um. What are you talking about? Every character I've seen has moves based on their actual moves...
And DJ, while Little Mac would suit in a fighting game...what exactly would all his attacks be? What about his special moves? All he does in Punch-Out is...punch. He doesn't have enough for a full movelist.
The Official Super Smash Bros. Brawl Thread - See you in March!! - Great Rumbler - 18th October 2007
EM, he's talking about this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ng6Rbja9TNY
The Official Super Smash Bros. Brawl Thread - See you in March!! - A Black Falcon - 18th October 2007
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The Official Super Smash Bros. Brawl Thread - See you in March!! - Dark Jaguar - 18th October 2007
EdenMaster Wrote:*Insert picture of woman on Jeopardy with just "What" has her answer*
Um. What are you talking about? Every character I've seen has moves based on their actual moves...
And DJ, while Little Mac would suit in a fighting game...what exactly would all his attacks be? What about his special moves? All he does in Punch-Out is...punch. He doesn't have enough for a full movelist.
Like any of them really had one going into the game, but a little imagination fixed that. Look at Ness. He was an RPG character and his move sets were really more healing moves. They thought of how they might work in a fighting game and eventually worked in Paula's moves. As the biggest example, Captain Falcon. He RACED IN A CAR, and they made him an awesome fighter. There's also Fox McCloud, and oh yes, Sonic just RAN, what would he do in this game? Well, he seems to work.
Here's my idea. His A moves would be pretty obvious, as well as his smash attacks. We're talking Queensbury rules here, so even his downward A moves are punches. His block would be a unique graphic, like Yoshi's egg shell, and he's basically hunker down on himself and put up the dukes. That actually plays directly into the fighting mechanics because him taking too many hits while blocking did the same thing that it does in this game. He'll also be a character with a rapid fire A move, a rapid series of left and right hooks. Look at the trophy version on that site and you see both a dashing one two punch combo (I'm thinking forward B) and an awesome upward B move (Give him the upper cut, THE UPPER CUT!). His standing B and his down B are a little trickier, but with everything else worked out, I'm sure a board room could easily cook up something where I failed.
For example, there's no reason he couldn't learn from his opponents like Ness learned from Paula. Down B could be, just as an example, a teleporting tiger punch, or a laughing hippo counter (think Marth and Roy's counter setup). His stationary B could, say, be a Marth and Roy style combo move, standing B is the starter and there are various chains of different punches he could work in. Heck it's all Nintendo games he could study under a Hitmonchan and learn elemental punches like fire punch or ice punch.
Oh yes, his throws would basically be him pushing his target to a side and winding up a punch to launch in various directions.
Now a Super attack is always hard to figure out, but I've worked through a few ideas. At first I was thinking a really big teleporting punch or maybe a copy of Mr. Dream's (since they couldn't call it Mike Tyson's) grand combo move, and a character being targetted has to block or dodge each blow or get a killer flying blow delivered.
Then I called my friend and after we both talked about it, this person slammed in the awesome with this little idea. Well, we tweaked it into this together. Little Mac goes in front of the camera, transparent, like he is in Super Punch out and like the entire stage is his opponent in fromt of him, and he throws punches at the stage in various directions and the other players need to run around avoiding the hits.
Oh wow... I WANT THAT! That would be AWESOME!
The Official Super Smash Bros. Brawl Thread - See you in March!! - Sacred Jellybean - 19th October 2007
Quote:So I assume you missed where Luigi used fireballs, Kirby used his copy ability, Yoshi attacked people with his tongue, and the Pokemon Trainer used his Pokeballs, right?
They lost me the minute they brought out Donkey Kong without using his clap-smash (-> or <- + A). Or his slap. Or his foot shove. If they wanted to hold my fleeting attention span, they would have commanded perfection.
The Official Super Smash Bros. Brawl Thread - See you in March!! - Dark Jaguar - 19th October 2007
So apparently Peach's super smash is a peachy "everyone falls asleep" tree that sprouts a bunch of health restoring peaches. Peach.
I was expecting something like her psycho bomb from Super Mario RPG (she throws one bomb up, and a million drop on the enemies) or her "anger" emotion covering her in flames while she runs around. This isn't either of those but it's original and it works.
The Official Super Smash Bros. Brawl Thread - See you in March!! - EdenMaster - 19th October 2007
Well I recall the last video Sakurai fed us had a very brief scene showing Peach singing and dancing and Bowser dancing next to her. I wondered if that might be a new debilitating attack (akin to Jigglypuff's Sleep or MewTwo's Disable) that instead of making them sleep or stunned, they danced uncontrollably.
But, it seems it's this instead. Okay, but I think my way would have been cooler. Who really uses Peach's buttslam anyhow?
The Official Super Smash Bros. Brawl Thread - See you in March!! - Dark Jaguar - 19th October 2007
Um... really? That move is a great basic damager, especially following up a well timed item toss stun.
The Official Super Smash Bros. Brawl Thread - See you in March!! - Great Rumbler - 19th October 2007
Sacred Jellybean Wrote:They lost me the minute they brought out Donkey Kong without using his clap-smash (-> or <- + A). Or his slap. Or his foot shove. If they wanted to hold my fleeting attention span, they would have commanded perfection.
Man, you guys are really hard to please.
The Official Super Smash Bros. Brawl Thread - See you in March!! - Sacred Jellybean - 19th October 2007
Great Rumbler Wrote:Man, you guys are really hard to please.
Considering that 98% of youtube videos are utter idiocy, a rigorous screening process is necessary.