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+--- Thread: Vision doesn't sell games... (/showthread.php?tid=4371)
Vision doesn't sell games... - Dark Jaguar - 13th May 2007
http://www.escapistmagazine.com/issue/96/19
An interesting article. However, I think a very obvious point seems to escape a lot of opinion articles. I keep hearing "they say they want innovation but they never want to plunk down the cash". However, there's something a lot more basic behind it. People don't KNOW about these amazing original games, especially in the white noise of terrible original games.
Someone already knows what to expect with a Final Fantasy game, but no one's ever heard of Okami. For all they know, it might totally suck, and in all likelihood, it probably is if one considers just the odds. The majority aren't running around reading news posts on gaming web logs like us. Further, there's the issue of money.
People WOULD spend the money on Okami if they could know beforehand that it was a good game.
So no, don't assume this is some artistic/political statement just like you always "KNEW" about the masses and you're totally so much more enlightened than they are. Most likely this has nothing to do with your crusade and it's just a lack of information on these newcomers.
In all honesty, you do it too. I never even considered TRYING Ty the Tazmanian Tiger, because it just looked like "yet another" platformer, you know, the churned out hundreds of boring platformers? In fact, I say that's the VERY REASON Psychonauts didn't sell well. Every person I talk to says they didn't think it would be a fun game not because "it was too original and different looking" (no one ever says or thinks that EVER), but the opposite, it looked "just like any other boring platformer". It took playing it myself to realize it actually WAS a fun game in it's own right and NOT just a boring clone.
In short, it's not that people "don't want an original game", it's much more likely that they just don't KNOW it's an original and fun game to begin with, and how WOULD they? No seriously, in the end that's the question we need to solve. How do you "tell the people"? I guess the first part would be convincing the advertisers to spend the money on these new games, but they did that with Psychonauts. Maybe the commercials should show gameplay and not just have "witty narrator dialog" and completely unrelated real world jokes. I think above all that, downloadable demos.
Vision doesn't sell games... - Great Rumbler - 13th May 2007
With the internet being what it is, there's really no reason not to know what to expect from games. Unless it's something really, REALLY obscure.
Vision doesn't sell games... - Dark Jaguar - 13th May 2007
No I don't think you understand. When Okami came out, we knew, because we keep up with "gaming news". My little brother? Completely in the dark. You can't assume everyone is up to date on our little hobbies. No one outside of Star Wars geeks even KNOWS that "Han shot first", except those exposed to that information against their will like myself. This is the sort of thing I'm talking about. The majority? They just don't HAVE this information, and the reason is they never even HEARD of Okami or similar games.
You seem to assume that just because the info is THERE, people instantly know it IS there.
Tell me, what's the spin of an up quark? The info is right THERE man, why didn't you look it up? Probably because you never even heard of them until now.
The fact is, for a lot of people going into a store, the odd games are still "that box over there they didn't see before", but they played one of those Zelda games so they know that's good. It isn't because they are "stupid" either. You just can't expect everyone to know about that stuff. Further, YOU CAN'T EVEN EXPECT THEM TO KNOW THAT STUFF IS THERE TO BE KNOWN. It's not that they are willingly ignoring information on Okami, they don't even know that information exists to be researched, because they never even heard of it.
Vision doesn't sell games... - Great Rumbler - 13th May 2007
People who are internet-averse aren't going to get this information, yeah. But anyone who goes to videogame news sites or forums on any sort of regular basis is going to get just that.
This excuse of good games not selling because of lack of exposure or "buzz" was a big problem about ten years ago when the only source of gaming news was from magazines. Small or obscure games would only get a paragraph or two and eventually a review somewhere down the line, but there was really no way of talking to people who actually played the game to get their take on it. Now, however, if you want to know about a certain game or to find out about some obscure games in general, then it's a lot easier to get feedback. Also, most everyone makes a leap once in a while and buys something without really thinking about it. When that happens, there's usually a desire to talk about it. From there, other people find out about that game.
It's like the circle of life, man.
Vision doesn't sell games... - Dark Jaguar - 13th May 2007
While that's true it ignores my point. If you want to know about Okami, yes, you can get that information, but what if you never heard the name "Okami" in your life? A google search for "weird and unorthodox games", or something? That'll turn up jack squat, as it's just too broad a search. Further, that's just not a question that gets asked anyway. Also, no one's going to ask "is there a game where you roll things up" or "is there a game that's about a cell shaded wolf god?".
The fact is, it's just plain ignorance, and despite what you seem to think, even WITH the internet people are going to be completely unaware that this stuff even exists to BE asked about a LOT of the time. For example, I myself am still finding out there are ENTIRE SUBCULTURES that exist off elsewhere on the net, and I can't possibly be blamed for being ignorant of these groups, because I NEVER CAME ACROSS ANY INFORMATION EVEN HINTING AT THEIR EXISTANCE. How can I ask ABOUT second life if I never heard the name of that 3D chat room service?
The internet makes information more available and provides more links from one source of information to another, but it's not perfect information provided to everyone on all things that is perfectly linked to all other parts of itself. There are vast parts of the net that are totally unlinked to other parts, or the links are at least so obscure as to the person interested in one thing may never come across information about some other topic.
Do you really think someone visiting an online pottery barn site is going to find out about the PS3's cell processor?
Vision doesn't sell games... - Great Rumbler - 13th May 2007
Hey, if people don't care enough about games that they can't keep track of upcoming releases [at the very least], then it's not my problem.
Vision doesn't sell games... - Dark Jaguar - 13th May 2007
Since when was it being "your problem" the topic of conversation? It's a problem for the companies, hence why I brought up the article to begin with. The point is, it's hard to initially get INTO the web scene of your interests. Sure it's all interlinked, but look at all those gaming bookmarks you have. That was a slow build up, wasn't it? It took a lot of looking around to get those sites, and really, how did you ever GET those links to begin with? I'll tell you this, I didn't even know IGN, gaming message boards, or any of that stuff existed until I found a stray link on Nintendo.com. I mean, how do you really break into these subcultures? If you get lucky, you find a good link during a web search and it goes from there. Don't assume "everyone knows" about these sites. The fact that game guides still sell so well in the age of GameFAQs should say that. But, more to the point, these companies need to get the information out, and for a lot of people, the majority in fact, they just aren't going to come across a good review in our little net subculture, and it is a SUB culture.
Enough of this! Time to commune with the purity of nature!
I see the beauty of it all! The trees and the wind and the colors of the... something.
Rabbits: Yeah, until the wolves show up. Any way we could come inside?
DJ: You're right! Let's just assimilate the lot of it!
Vision doesn't sell games... - Great Rumbler - 13th May 2007
All you really need to do is find a good videogame forum. IGN, Gamespot, or GAF will do the trick there.
Vision doesn't sell games... - A Black Falcon - 13th May 2007
DJ, you're definitely right. Expecting people to know something just because the information is out there is silly...
Vision doesn't sell games... - Sacred Jellybean - 13th May 2007
I'm also with DJ on this one. I suppose someone could try harder to read up on gaming sites and find a group of people who share similar interests, but it isn't always easy and people aren't willing to put in the time. Particularly to big sites. The reason I don't visit GameFAQs or Gaming-Age is that there is too much crap to wade through. Good games selling less is an unfortunate consequence, but what can you do? This is no different than people not reading books or watching movies that they would otherwise enjoy.
Vision doesn't sell games... - Dark Jaguar - 14th May 2007
And to that end I'm sure GR has missed a lot of stuff he might otherwise like simply due to not knowing it's out there, and he can't be blamed for that either.
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Vision doesn't sell games... - Great Rumbler - 14th May 2007
Quote:And to that end I'm sure GR has missed a lot of stuff he might otherwise like simply due to not knowing it's out there
As far as games go, there's probably not a whole lot that I've missed.
Vision doesn't sell games... - A Black Falcon - 16th May 2007
I'm sure I could mention games you've never heard of...
Do you follow Japanese freeware, shareware, and doujin PC games, for instance? :)
Vision doesn't sell games... - Great Rumbler - 16th May 2007
Like Cavestory?
Vision doesn't sell games... - A Black Falcon - 16th May 2007
Well yes, that's the best known one of them. My point was that I'd bet that there are plenty you haven't heard of... I guess the best "answer" is "but those weren't sold in boxes in the US" which is an answer, but it just shows the point that no one person knows everything about games... I know about a lot of games too, but I'd never say 'I haven't missed much' because I know that there are plenty of games I'm sure I've never heard of...
Vision doesn't sell games... - Great Rumbler - 16th May 2007
Vision doesn't sell games... - A Black Falcon - 16th May 2007
Knytt no, The White Chamber yes.
(well, technically I have a copy of the Knytt download sitting in my Game Downloads\Game Downloads\Windows Games\Freeware\Always Free\new folder, but I never actually got around to installing and playing it. :))
So... heard of Guxt, GLTron (not Japanese), Gal Pani X, Sispiri Gauntlet, Miko-san's Miracle Board, Torus Trooper, Super Cosplay Wars Ultra, Natuki, to name a few (of the many) relatively modern mostly Japanese PC shareware tales that are probably worth trying...
Good resouces for finding such freeware titles: (but not the only; Guxt for instance I heard of from NeoGAF, and I've known about GLTron for a long time)
http://www.the-underdogs.info/forum/viewtopic.php?t=13459&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0
http://www.the-underdogs.info/company.php?name=Freeware
Vision doesn't sell games... - Great Rumbler - 16th May 2007
Quote:Super Cosplay Wars Ultra
Yes, and it looks very bizarre.
HOWEVER, these are freeware games that aren't sold either at retail or online. Whether I get it or not, the company that made it still does not get a single dime from me.
Vision doesn't sell games... - A Black Falcon - 16th May 2007
Quote:HOWEVER, these are freeware games that aren't sold either at retail or online. Whether I get it or not, the company that made it still does not get a single dime from me.
True. Doesn't make them any less interesting though.
GLTron - European (game in English) game based on the Tron Lightcycles part. There are several other freeware Lightcycle games (that old DOS Tron lightcycle game, Cycles 3d, Lightbikes, etc), but this is the best one...
Guxt: new little shmup from the Cave Story people.
Gal Pani X: Qix-style, with anime character art backgrounds (mostly To Heart characters :)) Pretty good game.
Sipiri Gauntlet: by the creator of Gal Pani X, Gauntlet-style with female anime-style characters and amusingly bad English (what minimal text it has). HARD! Long with no saving...
Miko-san's Miracle Board: 3d puzzle-ish platformer game... kind of frusterating since it doesn't save.
Torus Trooper - one of Kenta Cho's best (A7Xpg is another one of my favorites of his)
SCWU: as you say, kind of crazy... cool though, even if I don't get 90% or more of the costume references. Other Japanese freeware fighting games I've played include Fighters Kyodotai (if I got the name right) and Dogma (unfinished, but it's got Kanon characters...).
Natuki: interesting little platformer with a grabber item thing so you hang from celings and swing around and stuff to solve the levels.
Vision doesn't sell games... - Bo Jackson - 18th May 2007
knytt is so cool.
Vision doesn't sell games... - Great Rumbler - 18th May 2007
Yeah, I finally finished it a few days ago.