+- Tendo City (https://www.tendocity.net)
+-- Forum: Tendo City: Metropolitan District (https://www.tendocity.net/forumdisplay.php?fid=4)
+--- Forum: Ramble City (https://www.tendocity.net/forumdisplay.php?fid=44)
+--- Thread: The Secret (/showthread.php?tid=4349)
The Secret - Dark Jaguar - 24th April 2007
I've been hearing a lot about this book from lazy people lately.
As far as I can tell, the secret is if you speak well and tell people what they want to hear, you can get a lot of money.
So basically people seem to come up to me (because apparently I seem the sort of person who needs this amazing and completely true information) that the secret to realizing dreams is to wish really hard.
To be more accurate, positive thinking makes dreams come true, and it works, as they often say "100% of the time, no exceptions". I like those numbers, as it makes it so easy to test it. So, I ask how many of their dreams came true. Well fantastic, here's some fun results. After thinking positive, the results aren't always instant, like riches, you may still be in debt for several months, but maybe one day you find like a $20 on the ground or get a raise, and bam, that's PROOF that it was the positive thinking that did it...
Ever wonder if these people are really as open minded as they think they are? I always seem to think farther and more expansively than these people do about their OWN crazy ideas. Here's a fun example. Apparently "proof" comes in the form of an unsourced short story about an unnamed man in some random city. Aside from sounding like something you read in a chain letter about those people who didn't forward it, basically here's the thing. "A man" who was constantly worried about being late for work hit every single red light, but another man who had a much more positive outlook got a green light all the way through. Let's ignore things like the fact that this is totally unsourced and could, when it's just a SINGLE sample, easily be explained by coincidence (apparentely concepts like "mass statistics gathering and proper probability analysis" are beyond these people). What strikes me as completely narrow minded and self absorbed about this story is the complete lack of any consideration for all the OTHER people on the road. I'm not talking about being rude to others for controlling the lights. I mean, am I to understand this ONE guy's positive mindset overrides the mind sets of every single other person on the road at the same time? Why that guy? And what of the other guy? That ONE guy's negative thoughts overrides everyone else's thoughts?
Anyway, I am shocked anyone is even paying any attention to this nonsense. I guess I shouldn't be surprised. Here's a little enlightenment. If you really want to accomplish anything, instead of sitting around wishing for it to drop into your lap, try actually working to achieve said goals. That has a statistically significant chance of success.
As a final aside, I'm sick of the "well it couldn't hurt to try right?" sorts. Yes, it COULD hurt, I'd be living a lie by doing it and depriving myself of full appreciation of the world for what it is. THAT is a harm.
The Secret - Sacred Jellybean - 24th April 2007
I would answer you to tell you why you're wrong, but that would create negative energy and prevent me from achieving my goals. I don't want my karma record to contain telling a person he's wrong and making him feel bad. It's just not nice.
*pulls tongue out of cheek* Agreed, though. This faulty logic is in line with the belief that "prayers in numbers makes an outcome more likely." Complete nonsense. It's disappointing to see people act so gullibly, but what can you do? :S
The Secret - Dark Jaguar - 24th April 2007
Be honest about your opinion on it when pressed. They may be offended, but they are the ones that brought it up and argued their side so vehemently.
I'm basically saying it's time to stop considering disagreement with superstition as "rudeness". Now don't get me wrong, you can still do it politely, but I've about had it with saying "that's nice" and then going back to what I was doing (especially since it seems more and more won't accept even a passive noncommital statement any more).
Beyond that, nothing really. Even pointing out that people who have died in the past generally never actually wanted to die and there have been plenty of deluded souls who literally thought they would live forever that are now dead, and the thought experiment of, well, throwing yourself in front of a train and convincing yourself nothing's going to happen. Heck, what about anyone that's ever died in their sleep? They are ASLEEP, no conciousness there at the time to think they are going to die.
Anyway, may they encounter these highway systems. I'm sure they could get out of them okay :D.
<img src="http://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/highway_engineer_pranks.png">
The Secret - Great Rumbler - 25th April 2007
It's positive thinking. That's the secret.
The Secret - Dark Jaguar - 25th April 2007
Yes, as we went over here. And, aside from the part about not being depressed into inaction, it is pointless. In fact I'd say I've gotten more done when I doubt myself than when I'm sure I'll succeed, because then I'm a lot more careful to get things right and make sure it'll even work to begin with.
Doubt is a virtue.
The Secret - A Black Falcon - 25th April 2007
Dark Jaguar Wrote:Anyway, may they encounter these highway systems. I'm sure they could get out of them okay :D.
<img src="http://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/highway_engineer_pranks.png">
That's great... :)
The Secret - Bo Jackson - 25th April 2007
It's just "think positive"? Basically just Bobby McFerrin's Don't Worry Be Happy? I guess if that's the only real lesson you take from it then that sounds perfectly fine. People are pretty negative. Especially message board-dwellers.
The Secret - Great Rumbler - 25th April 2007
What's the point of being postive, OB1? We're all going to die someday!!
The Secret - A Black Falcon - 25th April 2007
Positive is hard sometimes...
The Secret - Dark Jaguar - 25th April 2007
I suppose it can be. Being happier sure is a lot nicer than being upset at things, which is more than enough reason to do so.
No, this is about the idea that imaging your goals, in and of itself, is what makes them real, which is not just stupid but harmful as an outlook. You on a train track, you can think "survival" and imagine yourself living through it, or you can GET OFF. Which one do you think might realize your goals better?
The Secret - Bo Jackson - 25th April 2007
That sounds like a rather extreme view on that. I wonder if the majority of people into that book or whatever really think like that...
The Secret - Dark Jaguar - 25th April 2007
It is the logical extension of this viewpoint. The book apparently specifically says "works 100% of the time, no exceptions".
You are right though, it's doubtful people reading this necessarily actually live like they say they do. They may spout out how one merely need wish for what they want and it attracts those things to them, but they still need to sleep every night, eat every day, and actually go through the effort to get what they want, at least most of them.
The Secret - Bo Jackson - 25th April 2007
Well you know, some people are able to take bits and pieces of advice or whathaveyou from things without taking them to the absolute extreme. But I don't know anything about this Secret so whatever.
The Secret - A Black Falcon - 25th April 2007
Quote:No, this is about the idea that imaging your goals, in and of itself, is what makes them real, which is not just stupid but harmful as an outlook. You on a train track, you can think "survival" and imagine yourself living through it, or you can GET OFF. Which one do you think might realize your goals better?
Somehow I'm not sure if the book actually means for people to go that far with the idea... :)
But yes, actions matter much more than thoughts.
The Secret - Dark Jaguar - 25th April 2007
That's true, but from what I've heard, there is no advice of any helpful sort at all here, just a bunch of anecdotal stories and a total misunderstanding of quantum physics (it isn't magic, it's just a description of events as observed in the realm of the very small).
More than that, isn't that intellectually dishonest anyway, just accepting what "feels good" about something?
The Secret - Bo Jackson - 25th April 2007
What do you mean? Trying to have a positive attitude?
The Secret - Dark Jaguar - 25th April 2007
? I mean the idea of this cherry picking of what "sounds good" in the book and ignoring what you don't like. It's fine if you ignore it, but if not, WHY not? If it has to do with evidence, apply that standard to the rest of the book. If it has to do with just what you want to think is so, you've basically just admitted to having no good reason to think it is so but doing so anyway.
Anyway, this at least has the benefit of making some people feel good about themselves, in the same way any delusion of this sort might. The darker side of course is the group of people utterly convinced, in spite of a lack of evidence, that video games are destroying America, or witch hunts in the past, where being accused of being a witch was sufficient evidence that you are in fact a witch. Yes, those examples are far worse, but it's the same brand of faulty thinking that leads to both.
But don't take my word for it! Check it out at your local library.
The Secret - Bo Jackson - 25th April 2007
Alright...
Well, I haven't read the book so I'm just going to continue not caring about what it may or may not be telling people to do or think.
The Secret - Dark Jaguar - 25th April 2007
All it takes for evil to triumph is for good people to do nothing. I go one step further and... complain about it on a message board....
The Secret - Bo Jackson - 25th April 2007
So you have to be pessimistic and cynical in order to notice whenever an injustice occurs? Having a generally positive attitude means that you're a pacifist?
The Secret - Dark Jaguar - 25th April 2007
...what?
Okay I think you misunderstand me. I'm saying be skeptical of outrageous claims, not be "pessimistic and cynical".
The Secret - Bo Jackson - 26th April 2007
Oh, yeah you should question everything.