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srsly plz someone kill Dr. Phil - lazyfatbum - 17th April 2007
from gamestooge.com
Thompson’s rush to blame video games in the wake of the tragedy at Virginia Tech, Dr. Phil has chimed in with support for this theory. Speaking on Larry King Live tonight, Dr. Phil had this to say on the issue,
“The problem is we are programming these people as a society. You cannot tell me - common sense tells you - that if these people are playing video games where they’re on a mass killing spree in a video game, it’s glamorized on the big screen, it’s become part of the fiber of our society. You take that and mix it with a psychopath, a sociopath, or someone suffering from mental illness, add in a dose of rage, the suggestability is just too high. And we’re going to have to start dealing with that. We’re going to have to start addressing those issues and recognizing that the mass murderers of tomorrow are the children of today that are being programmed with this massive violence overdose.”
At the time of this writing, the identity of the shooter (or possibly shooters) has not been released. So Dr. Phil’s suggestions are not based on credible, or any, specific information about this particular shooting. At least he lumped in movies while throwing out baseless and pre-mature conclusions.
We are just hearing the beginning of what will certainly be many people placing the blame for this tragedy on video games and the mass media culture.
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Why do politicians and talk show idiots jump on this shit??? This is the last straw with me for Phil, I tried to like him because I know some people who think he's great, but they're just as retarded as Phil. But oh yes, it gets much better.
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From CNN.com
The student who killed 33 people Monday at Virginia Tech paid $571 for a 9 mm Glock 19 pistol just over a month ago, the owner of Roanoke Firearms told CNN Tuesday.
John Markell said Cho Seung-Hui was very low-key when he purchased the gun and 50 rounds of ammunition with a credit card in an "unremarkable" purchase.
Cho presented three forms of identification and state police conducted an instant background check that probably took about a minute, the store owner said.
Cho did not say why he wanted the gun, Markell said.
A fellow student said the 23-year-old English major had authored two plays so "twisted" that his classmates suspected he might become a school shooter.
Ian McFarland, who said he had class with Cho Seung-hui, called the plays "very graphic" and "extremely disturbing."
McFarland is an employee of America Online, which has provided the writings to CNN.
"It was like something out of a nightmare," McFarland wrote in a blog. "The plays had really twisted, macabre violence that used weapons I wouldn't have even thought of.
"Before Cho got to class that day, we students were talking to each other with serious worry about whether he could be a school shooter."
A university official also said that Cho scribed writings so "disturbing" they were sent to administrators, a university official said Tuesday.
The official did not provide details about the writings, which first came to the attention of faculty in the English department, but said they were passed on to the department chairwoman and university administrators.
Cho left a long and vitriolic note in his dorm room, law enforcement sources told ABC News. It contained an explanation of his actions and states, "You caused me to do this," ABC News reported.
It also railed against "rich kids," "debauchery" and "deceitful charlatans" on campus, according to the Chicago Tribune.
University officials said they were still trying to determine whether Cho was responsible for a shooting earlier Monday that left two dead at a dormitory.
However, Virginia Tech Police Chief Wendell Flinchum said ballistics tests show that one of the two guns recovered at Norris Hall was used at Norris and at the dorm, both located on the 26,000-student campus.
Authorities are still investigating whether Cho had any accomplices in planning or executing Monday's rampage, Col. Steven Flaherty of the Virginia State Police said.
"It certainly is reasonable for us to assume that Cho was the shooter in both places, but we don't have the evidence to take us there at this particular point in time," Flaherty said.
Cho, a 23-year-old South Korean and resident alien, was an English major who lived at the university's Harper Hall, Flinchum said. (Shooter's profile)
"He was a loner, and we're having difficulty finding information about him," said Larry Hincker, associate vice president for university relations.
Cho came to the United States in 1992, through Detroit, Michigan, a department of Homeland Security official said. He had lawful permanent residence, via his parents, and renewed his green card in October 2003, the official said.
His residence was listed as Centreville, Virginia, a suburb of Washington, D.C.
The university and police are still in the process of releasing the names of those killed in Monday's shootings. (Watch how some are asking why warnings weren't issued sooner Video)
"What went on during that incident certainly caused tremendous chaos and panic in Norris Hall," Flaherty said, describing how victims were found in four classrooms and in the stairwell of the school's engineering science and mechanics building.
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it's Drama Club's fault. I want picket signs now that say "Shakespeare killed my son and/or daughter" and I want a 2 hour special on the next Dr. Phil about how dramatic plays and stage work can cause mass killings. Disney will pull the Lion King on broadway, in fact every broadway show and 2 bit stage will be shut down, investigated for muslims, and burned.
srsly plz someone kill Dr. Phil - Great Rumbler - 17th April 2007
The more likely conclusion is that the reason people who committed mass-murders also played videogames is because they ENJOY VIOLENCE. The violence in the games didn't somehow turn them from pure, innocent, church-going, upstanding members of society into slobbering, braindead violence-mongers bent on killing and maiming. It's more likely that they had violent tendencies to begin with and sought out violent media to fulfill their lusts. In the end, games and movies weren't enough for them and they took the next step [i.e. actually go out and kill people].
That's my thought on it anyway.
srsly plz someone kill Dr. Phil - DMiller - 17th April 2007
I was wondering how videogames would be attached to the tragedy at VaTech, and it's sad that Dr. Phil spouts that garbage before we even knew anything about the killer. The killing had nothing to do with videogames, and there is little, if any, evidence that supports videogames contributing to violence.
srsly plz someone kill Dr. Phil - Dark Jaguar - 17th April 2007
People need to learn not to get their causality mixed up.
srsly plz someone kill Dr. Phil - A Black Falcon - 17th April 2007
Great Rumbler Wrote:The more likely conclusion is that the reason people who committed mass-murders also played videogames is because they ENJOY VIOLENCE. The violence in the games didn't somehow turn them from pure, innocent, church-going, upstanding members of society into slobbering, braindead violence-mongers bent on killing and maiming. It's more likely that they had violent tendencies to begin with and sought out violent media to fulfill their lusts. In the end, games and movies weren't enough for them and they took the next step [i.e. actually go out and kill people].
That's my thought on it anyway.
The problem is that no two people are the same. What is appropriate for some children (because they can understand the difference between the portrayed fantasy and reality) isn't okay for others... the numbers on the box are a guideline made as the best general guess. They are reliant on people actually caring and following through on it and paying attention to what their children are playing... but really, games won't make you violent. Will they send the wrong messages to some children who do not yet understand which parts are real and which aren't, or who are predisposed towards violence? Perhaps, and that's what parents and age ratings are for. Not governmental bans.
srsly plz someone kill Dr. Phil - Great Rumbler - 17th April 2007
Quote:The problem is that no two people are the same. What is appropriate for some children (because they can understand the difference between the portrayed fantasy and reality) isn't okay for others...
And that's where parents come in. Pretty easy, huh? You'd think so anyway, but history pretty much proves the opposite.
Oh, I see that was the same thing you said. Ah well.
srsly plz someone kill Dr. Phil - alien space marine - 17th April 2007
How do they even know if Cho the shooter in virginia owned a console or played a PC FTS?
Cho was a anti social manic depressive sociapath just like Harry whitmen who lived before video games could be used a scape gate!
Doctor Phil played in scary movie 4 parodying "Saw" and doing a satire on one of the films scenes were he cuts off his own leg, Talk about mr hypocrite.
![[Image: dr%20_phil_and_dad.jpg]](http://www.twoneat.com/two_neat/wizdom/wizdom_assets/dr%20_phil_and_dad.jpg)
Thats just a huge assumption! in truth Cho was said to have written violent disturbing written materials like Fatbum said.
Thompson is a enormous fagot who's threaten Who tried to sue everybody from Rocketstar to penny arcade.
srsly plz someone kill Dr. Phil - A Black Falcon - 17th April 2007
Quote:And that's where parents come in. Pretty easy, huh? You'd think so anyway, but history pretty much proves the opposite.
CNN (or CNNHN?) had this guy on who shot people in school at age 16. Didn't catch his name. He said that he was angry at people in school and had been bullied and stuff and thought that shooting people would solve all his problems and was confusing videogames and reality and didn't realize that people died after just getting shot a few times unlike a videogame where you have to hit them again and again... of course, he was in jail convicted of whatever it was he did, so who knows how true that actually is, but it's what he said.
Anyway, yes, for people who already have problems, videogames can't help. But do they create problems all on their own? No. People (parents, schools, etc) just need to be more vigilant for warning signs and need to get help for people who need it.
Quote:How do they even know if Cho the shooter in virginia owned a console or played a PC FTS?
They don't. At that point, they knew nothing at all about the guy; no proof of any kind was needed for the 'it was videogames' thing to start up... we still don't know if he played any games, actually, just that he had problems, wrote disturbing stories (he was an English major), etc.
srsly plz someone kill Dr. Phil - alien space marine - 17th April 2007
How come the gun topic never comes up here?
This shooting was done with a legally store purchased pistols.
The guy was said to have stocked women in his university prior to this.
srsly plz someone kill Dr. Phil - Geno - 17th April 2007
I saw him on the news just yesterday. He apparently thinks video game violence is linked directly to the Virginia Tech massacre, though from what I understand, the kid's girlfriend broke up with him. Damn, and Melody thought I was a psycho ex.
Video games don't give me homicidal thoughts. They allow me to release the homicidal thoughts that the world gives me. Don't forget that before the Virginia Tech massacre, the worst school shooting on American soil was in 1966, well before video games became mainstream. That's right, while the debate over the chicken and the egg continues, we can already say with certainty that violence existed some time before video games!
But really, people who blame video game violence for the insecurities of a few looneys are the ones who make my have homicidal thoughts (and only towards those people), not the video games themselves. No, wait, video games totally make me wanna go around collecting gold coins, breaking bricks, squirming through pipes, and jumping on the heads of everyone I encounter! I don't like mushrooms though.
srsly plz someone kill Dr. Phil - Dark Jaguar - 17th April 2007
Stocked women? ... Wait do you mean "stalked"? The two words are spelled, pronounced, and mean different things. You're getting better though.
He sure did buy a gun. Of course, it's a touchy thing asking what sort of restrictions, if any, should be applied.
Here's my thoughts. This was originally a check and balance idea, with the check being that if the government was afraid of pushing too far out of fear of armed rebellion, it wouldn't abuse it's powers.
Now, people bring up a lot of arguments about how applicable that is but the thing is, the right to bear arms no longer serves this purpose. If we were to allow all guns to be sold, we still would be little more than a "bothersome insurgence" to the current military. They have trained units with amazing tactical capacity, but that's NOTHING compaired to the fact that they are ALSO outfitted with technology the people will just not be able to reproduce or counter. We're talking night vision goggles, frickin' TANKS, air bombings, and if certain areas get too troublesome, NUKES. Technology has grown to the point where a rag tag team of rebels CANNOT form a functional rebellion force. They would have to develop that whole tech tree to reach that point, and do it in the underground, while constantly being persecuted.
In order to form a proper rebellion to gain the original intended spirit of that amendment, we'd need to allow legal ownership of weapons of mass destruction. That's simply not reasonable in terms of outright mass murder potential unimagined in the old times (well, maybe imagined, but as a fantasy, no wait, volcanos, well it was only doable by the planet at the time at least).
Basically it can't serve a rebellion, and as recent events can tell you, it can't even protect a single person from being arrested by a well armed SWAT team. One can argue how necessary a well armed militia is for the security of a free state, but the fact is, right to bear arms no longer serves that purpose, and to extend it to include weapons that would put the needed power into the hands of the people would inevitably result in catastophies of horrific proportions. Yes, those who give up freedom for safety deserve neither, but... that really doesn't apply to nuclear weapons.
So basically all I'm saying is the argument for gun rights based on protecting us from an oppresive government is flawed due to it just not working. About as effective as saying people should have rights to gumdrops for... national defense.
I'm not saying this means guns should be banned, I still haven't made up my mind if the other arguments are valid, I'm just saying that argument won't fly any more.
srsly plz someone kill Dr. Phil - A Black Falcon - 17th April 2007
From what I've heard, there's no sign that the guy played videogames at all... he listened to hard rock though. Let's go back to the fifties and sixties and blame that darn rock music!
srsly plz someone kill Dr. Phil - alien space marine - 18th April 2007
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/6568741.stm
Interesting how far out of touch Koreans are with Americans , I think this event would actually help repair relations between south Korea and the united states.
The only time a backlash would happen is if this was politically or religiously motivated terrorism but instead its just one lunatic who went berserk for no other reasons then his delusions.
srsly plz someone kill Dr. Phil - N-Man - 18th April 2007
A Black Falcon Wrote:From what I've heard, there's no sign that the guy played videogames at all... he listened to hard rock though. Let's go back to the fifties and sixties and blame that darn rock music!
Yeah, he listened to Guns N Roses. Good ol' Axl, still able to cause murderous riots after fifteen years off the market.
edit: you don't have to go back to the fifties to rage against rock though. The PMRC leveled accusations of satanism and debauching kids against Twisted Sister and WASP back in the early 80s. Took em to court, even.
srsly plz someone kill Dr. Phil - A Black Falcon - 18th April 2007
Quote:Interesting how far out of touch Koreans are with Americans , I think this event would actually help repair relations between south Korea and the united states.
The only time a backlash would happen is if this was politically or religiously motivated terrorism but instead its just one lunatic who went berserk for no other reasons then his delusions.
Agreed. I don't think his nationality will have any factor... Asians aren't currently disliked in America, and one incident like that isn't going to change that.
Now if it had been a Latino on the other hand... or (looking at racial groups) a black person... then I'd think we might be seeing some racist reaction.
srsly plz someone kill Dr. Phil - alien space marine - 18th April 2007
A Black Falcon Wrote:Agreed. I don't think his nationality will have any factor... Asians aren't currently disliked in America, and one incident like that isn't going to change that.
Now if it had been a Latino on the other hand... or (looking at racial groups) a black person... then I'd think we might be seeing some racist reaction.
he killed a swath full of different people of so many backgrounds including Indian Hindu, Egyptian Muslim,Jewish Israeli, Other Asians.
Certainly didn't pick off any specific race,Creed or gender.
The shooting we had in Montreal previously this year was a Sikh guy who hated preppies, Women and black people.
Attacked a random college he didn't even attend with a assault rifle.
srsly plz someone kill Dr. Phil - Dark Jaguar - 18th April 2007
A Black Falcon Wrote:Agreed. I don't think his nationality will have any factor... Asians aren't currently disliked in America, and one incident like that isn't going to change that.
Now if it had been a Latino on the other hand... or (looking at racial groups) a black person... then I'd think we might be seeing some racist reaction.
From already racist people? I'm sure we would. I doubt we'd see people suddenly becoming racist about it though.
srsly plz someone kill Dr. Phil - A Black Falcon - 18th April 2007
Quote:From already racist people? I'm sure we would. I doubt we'd see people suddenly becoming racist about it though.
Sure, but the point is, a lot of people are already racist against those groups. They aren't against Asians anymore. There's not much of a base predisposed to hate Asians to push the issue...
Quote:he killed a swath full of different people of so many backgrounds including Indian Hindu, Egyptian Muslim,Jewish Israeli, Other Asians.
Certainly didn't pick off any specific race,Creed or gender.
The shooting we had in Montreal previously this year was a Sikh guy who hated preppies, Women and black people.
Attacked a random college he didn't even attend with a assault rifle.
Yeah. The Virginia guy had problems -- stalking women, etc -- but in the shooting rampage itself, he just went after everyone...
srsly plz someone kill Dr. Phil - Geno - 18th April 2007
Apparently, he wrote some god awful and twisted stuff in his creative writing class. Nikki Giovanni, his professor as well as a published author and poet, recommended that he seek counselling. She knew ahead of time that there was something really wrong with him, but what could she do? He never made any immediate threats. He was just fucked up. From what I understand, students would often skip Giovanni's class because they were afraid of Cho Seung-Hui. The signs were there, but they couldn't really do anything--I mean, lots of people write violent stories dealing with death, but Giovanni could definitely tell that there was something different about Cho's stories... she could tell that he actually was insane.
srsly plz someone kill Dr. Phil - A Black Falcon - 18th April 2007
They only ever thought that he might hurt himself though, not others...
srsly plz someone kill Dr. Phil - lazyfatbum - 18th April 2007
I hope his writings get published, I cant wait to read them.
as far as signs... that's all 20/20 hind sight.
and until we have 'society licenses' like we have for driving, but where we get tested for our emotional stability at 18, then we're going to run in to this problem over and over. A psychopath really isn't a fair comparison, you can be a psychopath or a sociopath and not be capable of murder
So, a person who IS capable of murder are hand crafted from childhood and set through specific events that molded their emotional state. The same thing for gays or pedophiles (anyone with a sexual dysfunction), same thing for extreme alcoholics or users and so on, every problem we face in society on a daily basis comes from emotional dysfunction. What do we do about it? Nothing - It's live and let live, often miserably, or die, depending on the circumstances.
srsly plz someone kill Dr. Phil - Geno - 19th April 2007
It's true, hindsight is 20/20 here. We can criticize others for not seeing the signs and for not doing this or that in order to save lives, but whatever the case, it's too late now. I just hope that something within the realm of reason can be done to prevent something like this from ever happening again. I know school shootings aren't going to go away, but something should be done--better gun control law enforcement, more timely reaction to possible threats, anything at all that doesn't involve stationing a police officer every square foot or something ridiculous along those lines.
srsly plz someone kill Dr. Phil - Dark Jaguar - 19th April 2007
Remember that after Colombine, many "loner" type students, basically people that were too afraid of further bullying to come out of their shell, were suddenly targetted as possible "lose cannons". Many schools had rumors flying around that led to parents threatening all sorts of things unless said students were removed immediatly. It didn't matter that there was no reason to suspect these people based purely on them already being disliked or such tenuous connections, they "couldn't take that chance". Witch hunt, pure and simple.
srsly plz someone kill Dr. Phil - lazyfatbum - 19th April 2007
Yeah it gets stupidly bizarre.
But the thing is, if schools weren't designed as festering prisons to begin with then alot of these issues would be avoided. Of course family life plays a huge role, but my family life was pretty much okay but school life was pure shit, I cant even begin to tell you all the drawn up plans that me and several other people in school came up with, who would die first, where the fires would be started in the most tactical locations, what guns to use (crowd control mostly) and the specific speeches to give during the execution of certain teachers and students.
If I went to school in a post columbine world I would have been kicked out, examined, my family would have been put under a microscope for drug use or some kind of mistreatment to me and it would have been horrible. But what it all came down to was the horrible stresses of the daily life in school. Fitting in, getting beat up, learning how to fight back, trying to cope with physical changes/hormone changes, not to mention work, studying, homework, projects all while just trying to grow up. Hell when I figured out masturbation I told girls they're practically unnecessary except for their cooking, that went over well. How hard can a 13 year old girl kick? Harder than you will ever realize.
But this guy was 8 years old when he came here, threw in to a new country, new rules, new lifestyle. and thrown in public schools. Who knew what he was up against everyday. Even just language barriers, every day must have been a fight for him. Every day an uphill battle. I dont feel sorry for him, but I guess I dont feel sorry for the victims either.
srsly plz someone kill Dr. Phil - Dark Jaguar - 19th April 2007
Prison is exactly the description I use to describe school, only with education. Really, I hear arguments for the social aspect of school about "learning how to deal with society", but I may be alone here (I'm not) but I actually had to UNlearn every single social "rule" I picked up in school.
I didn't go through any planning or revenge plots, I just sort of clammed up and went from class to class. I avoided interaction because that's for the weak. I wandered around school the way an herbavore skitters from bush to bush, only exposed long enough to get that mushroom and then back to relative safety. Gender didn't even matter though. Aside from that, my home life was pretty great. Interesting juxtaposition there.
Even when I intentionally decided to avoid interaction for my own safety, people still seemed to go out of their way to do the bullying thing. Only later did I find out that people who managed to fit in seemed to, by and large, have a HUGE misunderstanding of the "loner". Apparently, and I get this from overhearing conversations about it, the nerds and loners are all "stuck up". Apparently they misinterpret guarded nature and isolation as me thinking I was "too good for them". I get the impression that the very idea that I may have been simply terrified of what might happen to me was completely outside their range of empathy.
Mind you, now I understand that by and large, many of them may have actually wanted to be my friend, but I was simply too afraid of anyone there to really trust anyone. I saw ulterior motives and eventually a lot of them (not that this excuses their actions) would take offense and my prophecy would be self fulfilling.
Then there's that American phenomenon of the "shut in", that odd soul that experienced what I experienced but NEVER opened up, living out their lives basically just shut in their room. Sad but it is their life to live I suppose. The problem is the fear of what these sorts might do, but that's not the sort of attention that's going to help. Screaming "you might murder people" isn't exactly going to get the pearls out of that shell.
srsly plz someone kill Dr. Phil - Sacred Jellybean - 19th April 2007
Quote:Yeah it gets stupidly bizarre.
But the thing is, if schools weren't designed as festering prisons to begin with then alot of these issues would be avoided. Of course family life plays a huge role, but my family life was pretty much okay but school life was pure shit, I cant even begin to tell you all the drawn up plans that me and several other people in school came up with, who would die first, where the fires would be started in the most tactical locations, what guns to use (crowd control mostly) and the specific speeches to give during the execution of certain teachers and students.
If I went to school in a post columbine world I would have been kicked out, examined, my family would have been put under a microscope for drug use or some kind of mistreatment to me and it would have been horrible. But what it all came down to was the horrible stresses of the daily life in school. Fitting in, getting beat up, learning how to fight back, trying to cope with physical changes/hormone changes, not to mention work, studying, homework, projects all while just trying to grow up. Hell when I figured out masturbation I told girls they're practically unnecessary except for their cooking, that went over well. How hard can a 13 year old girl kick? Harder than you will ever realize.
But this guy was 8 years old when he came here, threw in to a new country, new rules, new lifestyle. and thrown in public schools. Who knew what he was up against everyday. Even just language barriers, every day must have been a fight for him. Every day an uphill battle. I dont feel sorry for him, but I guess I dont feel sorry for the victims either.
*golf clap*
Yeah, I got swept up in that sort of shit. Twice: one pre- and one post-Columbine. I was careless with my notebook, so people found it and looked through it. I wasn't too popular, so I drew up a comic series where this little demon-like man (modeled after me) killed all the people who gave me a hard time in gory ways. It was quite harmless, as, you know, I'm not crazy. It allowed me to turn my frustration and despair into something creative and entertaining (even though I did it when I should have been paying attention in class). Anyway, the worst that happened was confiscation and a recommendation of therapy.
Then, 2 years after columbine, a couple friends of mine got hold of my notebook and looked through it, got scared/weirded out by the little angry scribbles I put down when someone was annoying me, and turned it in. I was pulled out of class and set up with an appointment with ol' Rooney (we called him that because he was a strange combination of Jeffrey Jones and a pot-bellied Hitler). My parents were called in and talked to while the school therapist, who was very pandering to this wild young savage, started taking sheet after sheet and having me explain them (which was good, because I could at least attempt, though futile, to dispel their concerns).
Anyway, they wanted to suspend me for 4 fucking weeks for psychiatric examination, which my parents obviously protested. They sent a cop to my house with a search warrant, but coincidentally, a friend of mine went through the same witch hunt, and gave me foreknowledge of this, allowing me to hide my other personal journals. The cop allowed me to sign some sort of document where I could explain my innocence for their records. My parents made a stink about me losing school time, so I was allowed back in after a week, but only after reassurance from an outside shrink that I was not a danger to myself or others.
All in all, I enjoyed the time off.
srsly plz someone kill Dr. Phil - Weltall - 19th April 2007
Quote:I dont feel sorry for him, but I guess I dont feel sorry for the victims either.
That's kind of callous, don't you think? Cho didn't target anyone specifically (except in the first incident). Otherwise you had some sixty people who did this kid no wrong except in his own head and had the misfortune of being in the wrong place at the wrong time. I went through a lot of shit in school, castigated because of my weight and getting through with not much in the way of friends and teachers who mostly didn't give a damn. I was a total loner for the most part, left to myself and whatever I could do to keep myself entertained. I tended to be cold and callous to people I didn't know. I had practically zero social skills. I probably fit the profile of a potential 'loose cannon' to a T. But I never formed any mass-murder plots. Never even thought about it. There were plenty of people I didn't like, and plenty of people who gave me undeserved shit, but not one of them deserved to die because of it. Being a douchebag is not an offense worth the death penalty, and even less deserving are the innocent bystanders who would get caught in the path despite never once involving themselves with me. Those kids and those professors did not deserve to have their lives stolen by some butthole with a general, unfocused grudge against the world at large, not even if every last one of them teased and tormented him.
Also, some of his writing was made public, and all I have to say is that Seung Cho did seem to try his best to appear disturbing. Oh, and Seung Cho sucks at writing. Once you get over how 'extreme' this ten-page play is, you'll probably notice that it's very poorly written and it makes little sense.
srsly plz someone kill Dr. Phil - alien space marine - 19th April 2007
Dark Jaguar Wrote:Remember that after Colombine, many "loner" type students, basically people that were too afraid of further bullying to come out of their shell, were suddenly targetted as possible "lose cannons". Many schools had rumors flying around that led to parents threatening all sorts of things unless said students were removed immediatly. It didn't matter that there was no reason to suspect these people based purely on them already being disliked or such tenuous connections, they "couldn't take that chance". Witch hunt, pure and simple.
One of my old school pals experienced that , A jack ass lied to the police in scheme and said he and couple of other friends had a plan to shoot up the school. The biggest humiliation was when his name was put out on the local radio ,Only for hours later they had to retract the hole story and then vindicate him as a innocent student who was falsely accused by this dick weed who phoned the police making up bullshit ,Motivated over some jealous animosity due to a earlier confrontation between the accuser and my friends group.
Whats interesting was that the kid who pulled the scheme fit the profile of a school shooter more then those he accused did as he was unpopular was much disliked and hated by most of the kids in the school, He was described as obnoxious and confrontational abusive anti social,While the accused were completely the opposite.
srsly plz someone kill Dr. Phil - Dark Jaguar - 19th April 2007
I didn't even notice that line lazy.
Lazy, they did nothing worth killing them over. Further, a large number of them probably never even realized they did anything to offend this guy, many perhaps total strangers who were in the wrong place at the wrong time. Even those who intentionally bullied him did NOT deserve murder.
srsly plz someone kill Dr. Phil - alien space marine - 19th April 2007
Yah I remember drawing pictures just like SJ , I drew the vice principal as a enormous demonic figure who chewed up children if they didn't pay attention . I would make my myself like the dragon Z Goku Super Saiyan and basically rein act the freza VS Goku battle but with the Vice principal playing Freza with a shirt and tie of course you can imagine who wins.
Pretty much did the same as SJ also to those who bullied or tormented me as they would frequently be caricatured in numerous cartoons dieing or being tortured in as many ways as possible.
srsly plz someone kill Dr. Phil - Dark Jaguar - 19th April 2007
I guess people deal with these sorts of things in different ways. For my part I considered even having a memory of those people a further violation so I never dwelled on such things and as such never thought of revenge (gives them too much importance and other after school special morals, but it's true).
srsly plz someone kill Dr. Phil - alien space marine - 19th April 2007
Dark Jaguar Wrote:I guess people deal with these sorts of things in different ways. For my part I considered even having a memory of those people a further violation so I never dwelled on such things and as such never thought of revenge (gives them too much importance and other after school special morals, but it's true).
Some of us got it in greater severity then others , It waisnt something you could avoid thinking of at the time since it was part of the everyday life of your schooling years there were days back then I would pretend to be sick to avoid going for fear that I was going to roughed up again. The middle school I went you could say was the place were all the damn expelled disciplinary rejects from others schools were sent too and those who just so happen to live in that district got stuck in with them like me.
As there was one really disturbed kid named Ben who is a thug as far as I am concerned probably is in *Jail* today no doubt ,waited for me in a corner one day and was planning to jump me with a knife all because I had double crossed him telling the teacher that he had shutoff my computer during class, but I was warned by another kid who tipped me off to what he was planning to do at the end of the day. Basically for such a little incident he ran a hole vendetta on me until the school year was over.
Today I just look at it as history something to chuckle at all the traumas and anxiety experienced ages ago in the lower grades is just irrelevant.
Ben I seriously hope your little white ass is being fucked by other inmates as somebodies little bitch.
I think your right I wont let that turd shit occupy anymore of my memory and time ever for the rest of my life.
srsly plz someone kill Dr. Phil - Dark Jaguar - 19th April 2007
Not really what I meant. Basically avoidance was primary. I'd rat out every single last one of them and avoided school at times, but I guess I'm not creative enough to consider murder a viable option, or even entertain the idea.
srsly plz someone kill Dr. Phil - lazyfatbum - 20th April 2007
No i'm pretty sure the victims deserved it in one way or another.
The plays are actually really awesome, I dunno why you think they're badly written rtan. They remind me of many movies and books i've read where the story is basically a realized fantasy for the main character. Here's how prom SHOULD have gone, here's what i'm going to do to my step dad, or short stories like the dude driving home from work and imagining catching his wife cheating on him and creating this elaborate fantasy where he kills the bad guy, or saves someone, or lets out all the pent up rage and dies a martyr, etc.
He obviously had some issues with engrish (and his emotional state budumpish) but i'd say that McBeef was like a preteen version of Falling Down. Kept me entertained (the fantasy of a 13 year old winning back his mother's attentions) and the ending was cool to boot, good and martyr'd.
But yeah I think they all knew what was coming and why, so I dont really feel sorry for them. George Carlin said people always talk about the 'quiet ones' but let me ask you this, if you're sitting in a bar and there's a guy in the corner reading a book and sipping his beer and there's a guy at the end of the bar banging a machete on the bar saying, 'I'M GOING TO KILL THE NEXT MOTHERFUCKER WHO WALKS THROUGH THAT DOOR!!' which one are you going to be more concerned about?
I love George Carlin.
srsly plz someone kill Dr. Phil - A Black Falcon - 20th April 2007
http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/04/20/shooter.childhood/index.html
Made fun of in high school indeed...
srsly plz someone kill Dr. Phil - Geno - 20th April 2007
Seeing as we're all posters on an internet messageboard, I think it's safe to say that we've all had social problems in middle school. By the time I got into high school, I was just so used to keeping my mouth shut and not saying anything to anybody. People thought I was unfriendly because of it, and I've since learned to talk to people even though I still don't do a whole lot of socializing and "hanging out." (I've made progress though.) In 9th grade, one person even commented that he was freaked out by me. I think this was about a year or so after Columbine. He was afraid that I was going to just randomly shoot people. I may not have been very talkative, but I wasn't a homicidal maniac. Now, I'm 21 (or will be in four days) and in college, where immature people are basically weeded out and everyone's much nicer and less concerned with shit like fashion or wrestling. I feel much more welcome in an environment like this, where I can actually learn and talk to other people who like learning as well. The thought of killing several of my fellow students based on grudges that I hold from middle school is absolutely ludicrous at this point (although as Ryan said, even those who picked on me in middle school don't deserve death; maybe a swift kick in the ass, but that's it). Therefore, I have no sympathy for Cho Seung-Hui. He was cold to people who didn't do anything to him and he killed and injured people who didn't do anything to him. There's no excuse. The victims and their families and friends are in my thoughts and prayers and I've cried for people I've never even met. Cho Seung-Hui, however, can burn in hell for all he's worth to me.
srsly plz someone kill Dr. Phil - lazyfatbum - 20th April 2007
that's a pretty narrow view. You and I (many others) emotionally survived middle school and high school. Some did not, should their mental breakdown really be their fault? Isn't action = reaction?
srsly plz someone kill Dr. Phil - Great Rumbler - 20th April 2007
Quote:No i'm pretty sure the victims deserved it in one way or another.
Please, they were students who were trying to go to school and maybe have a little bit of fun in life. I doubt any of them ever did anything bad to this guy.
Quote:I think it's safe to say that we've all had social problems in middle school.
Not really. I had quite a few close friends and very, very rarely had any problems with teachers/administrators.
Quote:should their mental breakdown really be their fault?
Yes, absolutely. Nobody put the gun in this guy's hand and forced him to kill 32 people, most of whom he'd probably never even met before. Nobody stuck the camera in this guy's face and forced him to make horrifying videos of himself talking about the awful things he was going to do.
Responsibility for one's own actions. If it's not there, then just forget about everything because the whole world is going down the drain.
srsly plz someone kill Dr. Phil - lazyfatbum - 20th April 2007
*GR wins 9 STFU points*
srsly plz someone kill Dr. Phil - Great Rumbler - 20th April 2007
Hooray!
srsly plz someone kill Dr. Phil - Weltall - 20th April 2007
lazyfatbum Wrote:that's a pretty narrow view. You and I (many others) emotionally survived middle school and high school. Some did not, should their mental breakdown really be their fault? Isn't action = reaction?More narrow than the random victims of a mass-murder spree in some way deserved to die?
I'm sorry but I'm having a lot of trouble figuring out how that makes any sense whatsoever.
And while his breakdown is probably due to factors beyond his control, his actions were cold and calculated and executed with plenty of forethought. People lose control all the time. Everyone does at some point, it's unavoidable. But most people don't lose control and slaughter dozens of innocent people. There is no way that is justified or excused.
And the fact that McBeef looked like a 13-year old wrote it is exactly why I think it sucks, because the guy is 23 and an English major. He's a poor writer, and his plays have all the substance of a Grand Theft Auto game.
srsly plz someone kill Dr. Phil - Dark Jaguar - 20th April 2007
Sorry lazy, but there's no excusing this. I give no quarter to this guy, no quarter given, give quarter not, which is to say, and to reiterate, that he and he alone was at fault, and nobody else, for in the end, most people can get through this stuff, and worse, without resorting to mass murder. He was broken.
srsly plz someone kill Dr. Phil - lazyfatbum - 20th April 2007
of course he's broken, i'm not saying he should be looked up to. Not in any way. He should not be admired nor should he be felt sorry for. And honestly, shouldn't the same be said for the victims and their families?
Quote:And the fact that McBeef looked like a 13-year old wrote it is exactly why I think it sucks, because the guy is 23 and an English major. He's a poor writer, and his plays have all the substance of a Grand Theft Auto game.
It's not genius, its not amazing, but its entertaining and with the right directing it could be pretty damn funny. Just because the guy was a homicidal maniac doesn't mean you cant enjoy his plays.
srsly plz someone kill Dr. Phil - Great Rumbler - 20th April 2007
Quote:And honestly, shouldn't the same be said for the victims and their families?
Why?
srsly plz someone kill Dr. Phil - Dark Jaguar - 20th April 2007
Yeah, why lazy? As we've repeatedly tried to remind you, they were for the most part totally random casualties of his rampage. They are blameless. Even those who may have teased him didn't deserve this.
As such, no, they are NOT broken because THEY are not murderers. They are only broken because bullets riddled their bodies. Assuming each and every one simply "must" have wronged him to fit the idea that no one ever targets an innocent person is just as blind and without basis in fact as the assumption that video games must have driven this guy to violence.
srsly plz someone kill Dr. Phil - lazyfatbum - 20th April 2007
I agree with you, but they why is simple: Whether it can be proven to any major validity or not, he was a psycho for many reasons; All of which have to do with what he endured. He was Frankenstein's monster simply put.
What he did was wrong, but it was also unavoidable, or rather it was really the only outcome. His victims were jocks, barbies, people of status. Though i'm sure he got some people just because they were there. But he sought out to dismantle what made him in the ways he was taught how.
srsly plz someone kill Dr. Phil - Great Rumbler - 20th April 2007
And look where his "revenge" got him: He's dead. Good job, guy.
srsly plz someone kill Dr. Phil - alien space marine - 20th April 2007
Pretty much Cho wallowed in self pity steaming with rage and jealousy frustration to the fact it seemed to his narrow perceptions that everyone else was living the good life and had it all perfect and he was somehow denied by the universe or "god" the same blessings and felt disadvantaged.
The term "ax Ishmael" sort of sums up his own analogue as he thought of himself as the begotten child who was unfairly cast aside by his father to safeguard the prize younger Issac "Who was the one to be blessed with greatness" rather then Ishmael who's future was far more bleak.
It seems to me the person he is shouting too on the tapes could be "god" or his parents perhaps both?
Misery loves company as the old saying goes.
srsly plz someone kill Dr. Phil - A Black Falcon - 20th April 2007
'paranoid schizophrenic' is a term I've been hearing used on TV for him... who knows if it's right or not, but it certainly is true that his external and internal personas were quite different. It seems like ever since he was very young he was very quiet and didn't talk much... there's definitely a big contrast between that and how he acted on those videos.
As for being picked on in school, that usually happens because you're 'different' in some way. That's certainly how it was for me... children can tell when you're not "normal", somehow, and children are cruel... even so I liked school because I like learning, but the other students... even through highschool, excepting a couple of people, outside of class I wouldn't be surprised if I had more conversations with the teachers than the students... maybe not, but perhaps.
I never wanted to hurt anyone because of them picking on me, though. Definitely not... my response was usually 'do nothing and hope they leave me alone', pretty much. Fighting wouldn't help anything. My problems are about not understanding others and anxiety, not anger or anything like that... There was one kid (and his friend) in junior high who did shove me against the wall sometimes, but he eventually got caught doing it and got in trouble... no, for me, the 'i was picked on' wasn't that kind of stuff. Oh yes, and I did notice that most people were more grown up in highschool... not to say that everything there was perfect, but junior high was the worst, for sure.
Quote:I agree with you, but they why is simple: Whether it can be proven to any major validity or not, he was a psycho for many reasons; All of which have to do with what he endured. He was Frankenstein's monster simply put.
What he did was wrong, but it was also unavoidable, or rather it was really the only outcome. His victims were jocks, barbies, people of status. Though i'm sure he got some people just because they were there. But he sought out to dismantle what made him in the ways he was taught how.
Perhaps if he had gotten help, but as I've heard all over the media, it's very hard to know when someone is simply troubled and when they are actually dangerous... but if we had a better system for identifying mental illnesses and actually treated them, instead of mostly ignoring them unless someone is hurt, perhaps it could have been avoided... after all, he had been through the system, even if it hadn't succeeded. Part of the blame definitely has to be on the system that is unable to identify which people are greater dangers... not to mention, of course, how he managed to get a gun despite his diagnosis (now it does seem like he shouldn't, but the law was ignored by someone(s)...)... but no, you are wrong. It wasn't unavoidable. Lots of people have mental illnesses or are treated badly in school, but most of them don't go out and kill people... 'well he couldn't take it and did' isn't nearly good enough. While it does go a long way towards explaining why it happened, it doesn't do anything toward saying what you suggest. He was blaming all of society for being against him, after all; so we are all guilty of being against him? No, it was just in his mind... his mind and reality didn't line up, and in the end he acted on his mind, not on what is real. There's no way to defend that.
srsly plz someone kill Dr. Phil - A Black Falcon - 20th April 2007
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/18220228/
Read!