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+--- Thread: Bigfoot isn't real?! (/showthread.php?tid=3475)
Bigfoot isn't real?! - Dark Jaguar - 24th January 2006
Well, some clever soul just took a gif editor and lined up all the shots from that infamous bigfoot siting video I'm sure everyone has seen before so it looks like a still panoramic shot. This is a perfect way to eliminate any wobbling in an image, and it's pretty much impossible to create additional artifacts with this method.
<img src="http://www.bigfootencounters.com/files/mk_davis_pgf.gif">
Just thought this was cute, as it doesn't appear to be moving in any way that a man in a monkey suit couldn't also move in.
Bigfoot isn't real?! - Great Rumbler - 24th January 2006
Hahaha, bigfoot looks like some guy strolling down 5th Avenue. :D
Bigfoot isn't real?! - Dark Jaguar - 25th January 2006
I do notice the image line up method doesn't account for rotational movement of the camera, as there is still a little jittering, but yeah, it's pretty clear here there's no reason to think that is actually a creature. Not evidence that it isn't bigfoot really, who's to say they don't walk like us? However, what's more important is it shows that the evidence some of the footies use to show it can't be human (look at how he walks) has no basis in reality. There's just no reason to believe he exists, which is reason enough to default to not believing in it until proper evidence is presented.
In conclusion, SHOW ME A BAG OF BIG FOOT'S DROPPINGS OR SHUT UP!
Big foot lover: I have a bag of the droppings of someone who says he SAW Big Foot!
DJ: Shut up!
Bigfoot isn't real?! - lazyfatbum - 26th January 2006
There's plausibles in play, Big foot could very well be a North American ape and a gorilla which walks upright. That's not far fetched at all. We already look and act very similar to all great ape hominoids and there were greater apes found in North America (but are thought now to be extinct, and no scientist wants to compare those findings with a 'bigfoot')
In the video, we see an animal that has features of a gorilla. Look at the muscle shapes and design of the layout, where bulkier hair is and where the softer hair is.
Now, if I were going to design a big foot suit, the first thing I would do is look at pictures of our closest relatives and try to make it look like a standing gorilla. I would have the person in the suit watch video of actual apes walking on two legs. The slumped back, the swaying arms, the inquesitive nature to look back at the possible threat and the calm yet brisk walk away. These can all be found in real apes when dealing with people who are taking pictures of them in the wild.
But look at the time it was made, and to make such a thing by hand? As in, someone had to make this suit in their garage, making full body casts of the person who is going to wear it, creating a full helmet etc and using a shit-ton of latex and plaster. Making a full body suit in film takes alot of skill. Well, alot of skill to make it look real. It would take years for one guy to put it together, probably around two years of work. If he had a team of people, you could cut it down to a few months but that's a large operation.
So then you have your actor watch the videos, study the movement and get a good walk going with actions.
Then you find your location, set up your camera and... have the actor pass by in less than 15 seconds?
All that work, and they're going to spend it all on 15 seconds? And then never do it again? if he actually had this suit and went through all the work possible, wouldn't he pop up every few years with more 'proof?' with better videos, etc? But he didn't, in fact the guy who shot the video had just gotten that camera and I believe he was fishing at the time.
It's very possible that he had nothing to do with it, and this suit was made by some people who decided to randomly walk through th forest, looking for people to scare. But again, if this were true, it would have been documented on film again. Some of the men in the forests would have taken shots at it with a gun while hunting and ultimately, whether it's one person or a team of people, someone would have eventually slipped up and revealed it to be a hoax.
Waaaaay to many problems present itself when you take the video as a fake. It's actually more plausible to believe it as real. Someone shot video of an animal in the wild. No one would question it if it were a silver back gorilla because we know them to exist nad documented it, but we find new species all the time and the scientists just scratch their heads and say "Oh, didn't see that before..."
Now, if the animal is real, and we collect all the stories of encounters, we paint a picture of an animal that not acts very ape like but shows more intelligence than most apes. This intelligence might force these apes in to hiding, it could be a common belief among them that humans are extremely dangerous. In no report, document, sighting, etc, did anyone claim to have been bitten. The bigfoot would steal their fish, or would be found sleeping in the barn or other non-aggresive behaviors. If a greater ape were to survive in the forests of America (and other parts of the world outside of Africa) it would develop a diet of mostly greens, nuts, berries and fish. Most forest predators would avoid such a large ape like animal, but in the case of bears or large cats the bigfoot would pobably be able to outsmart it pretty quick in a group. Finding good hiding places, ways to attack from a distance, etc.
In this lifestyle, such an animal would become very much an animal of solitude, at most living in tight family groups and probably avoiding as much confrontation as possible.
To say that such an ape does not exist is stupid, there's nothing to say it doesn't exist and there's pictures and movies showing us that it does. We just have to believe them as credible.
I remember that episode of Futurama it was awesome. But think about it, is it really so far fetched to believe that an animal would use the lakes as a bathroom? Or bury it? or even eat it (like other greater apes)? If I asked you to go through cities, towns, forests, mountains, etc, and asked you to find human droppings, would you find it? of course not, we dont leave that shit laying around, we dispose of it. Other animals do this as well and it makes sense for a large hominid who lives in relatively small forests with possible predators to dispose of it as well.
Bigfoot isn't real?! - Great Rumbler - 26th January 2006
Sorry, I just don't buy it.
Bigfoot isn't real?! - Dark Jaguar - 26th January 2006
lazy! I'm surprised at you! You do realize the flaw in your thinking right? Rather than trying to defend this, perhaps you should show us some good evidence that this creature actually exists? Now, we have good reason to believe there are species we, as yet, have not discovered. The giant squid was once merely rumor. There is a different though. We FOUND giant squid. At first there were only dead bodies, which was evidence enough, but recently a living giant squid was filmed, showing it to move a lot faster than previously thought.
However, there is no evidence to suggest bigfoot exists. In fact, there is good reason to think the creature does not exist. You'd think there would be something, ANYTHING, left behind. A lot of people have found bear claws and confused them for bigfoot hands. Once examined, there is no difference between what they found and a bear's claw. Any and all fur found has been found to be that of existing species, almost always not even from an ape.
What reason do we have to doubt it's existance? The lack of evidence!
lazy, you are falling for all the classic traps. You are making up excuses as to why we haven't found any proper evidence. That's all well and good, it may be the case. Hey, it may be the case that ghosts exist too, but we have no evidence to suggest either do, and making up excuses as to why we haven't found it is pointless.
Again, SHOW ME A BAG OF HIS DROPPINGS OR SHUT UP!
Bigfoot isn't real?! - lazyfatbum - 26th January 2006
Hahaha and we could have be having the same conversation about giant squid the day before it was found, or a conversation about chimpanzees with gorilla-like features the day before they were found, and everyone would dimiss them as science fiction. Even though, atleast in the case of the giant squid, it was written about for thousands of years, depicted in drawings, paintings, maps, mentioned in sailor's songs, etc.
We as a mentality cant stand the thought of finding something as huge as a new animal and we have to see it documented by many people all at once on national television with experts and cross-reference all bombarding us to get in to our heads that we found something new. It's our inability to cope as a human being.
I actually saw a UFO, now you can think what ever you want (as can I) but it was an object that seemed to be extremely high up and was capable of zig zag manuevers, even at one point moving in the opposite direction with no loss in speed. I live in Florida (NASA, air force bases, etc) and I wanted to see if I could find a good comparible. But there are no missles that could move that way, nor are there any craft. Even harrier jets or helicopters have an immense loss in speed as the enertia shifts.
Eventually i came to two conclusions, it was either a meteorite 'glowing' from entry and my percieved zig-zag patterns and its opposite movements with the same speed could have because I was looking at it from such an odd angle as it litteraly fell in to earth. The problem with this theory is that the meteorite never broke apart, it actually traveled from one horizon to the other and by its end, picked up considerable speed and vanished over the horizon. There were also no reports of a meteorite touching down. My second theory is even more simple, an alien or man made craft that was either exploring the area or being tested (respectively).
I know all about the light anomalies and i've documented them all, this one took on a 'ball-lightening' "Foosball" form, however there were no planes around (or other objects creating static electricty).
While I watched it, I called a friend a few miles away and he was able to see it as well, so I knew that it wasn't something floating a few feet above me and my eyes were playing tricks on me. I had him describe its movements as I watched, they matched perfectly.
No matter what I did to study the event or ground it in known reality I came up short. My dad found an article in a news paper about a weather balloon that was released around Miami a few months before I saw the object. Using the principal as the meteorite it was plausible that what I saw was a balloon traveling up that would create crazy looking zig zags and reverse movements with no loss in speed when viewed from the ground (as its moving in 3-D). The theory matched up, so i was content with it being a weather balloon.
But looking at the article, it said that the balloon was now somewhere over the pacific (can you say Chinese spy balloon?) and could travel the air at an incredible rate. It was released 3 months before I saw the object which put it in a time frame where it should have been somewhere around Nevada. not just a couple hundred miles from its launch location (I was in Tampa at the time, a 3 to 4 hour drive to Miami).
So I'm forced back in to the first two major theories. After all, I saw something, there was an actual object in the sky.
Now lets look at bigfoot. People claim to see him, some even say that they were scared and some even called the cops to come out and investigate around their house because a large ape-like animal was outside going through the trash.
Now take a step back for a moment. Let's look at aliens and UFO sightings; They happen everywhere. Whether its a real sighting, an illusion, a classified test or a made up story, the sightings come in from all over the world. There's no 'concentrated' area where people claim to have seen the most UFO. Now, looking at our current mythology such as Champ, Pango-Pango, Loch Ness Monster, Big Foot, Abominable Snowman, La Chupracabre, etc we can see condensed, concentrated sightings. In each of these cases, it happens within a particular area.
There is no doubt that people enjoy lying to have fun. But what about the pictures? the film? Some can be evaluated to be found as hoaxes by top experts. But these top experts cannot dissprove all of them.
What's even more interesting, is that before a picture is taken (hoax or not) before someone grabs a video camera (again, hoax or not), people who claim to have seen it, describe it the same way and sometimes with details that are conducive to real life panic. For example people who claim to have seen bigfoot and give you a fully detailed story is questionable, but the people who ran away only getting glipses of it and painting a picture of what serious fields of study refer to as a North American ape, give a much more realistic picture. The same panic found in campers who are suddenly faced with a bear or large cat, wolves, etc. In some cases, a camper would spot a bear and when he would report it, the preserve would tell him that there ARE NO BEARS in that area, essentially calling him a liar. It would be years later that the park would get more reports of bears and still not find any. The park even has signs that say "Beware bears' with no official bear population because they cant be documented.
We're not only talking about the north west forests of America in to Canada, we're talking about hundreds of thousands of sightings in that area by as many people. To say that each one of these is made up or false is retarded. After all, SOMETHING was there, they saw some kind of ape-like animal.
You say you want proof but there's really no such thing until YOU see it, in front of you. People like you two probably watched the uncovering of the giant squid waiting for it to be a hoax, since in reality, it would be very easy to make something look like a realistic giant dead squid.
The lochness monster, Pango Pango, Champ, these could all be the product of boa-sized sea snakes or eels, marine mammals such as whales or dolphins that found a way in to the lake through underground caverns, perhaps even a new species of whale, like a 'Cave whale'. But the fact remains that SOMETHING is there that resembles at least in part, the descriptions presented by the thousands of witnesses.
This is not a mass of an entire town claiming to see the virgin mary in the sky or anything like that, because these are documented pictures and film over years and years of a time frame Some from normal people on vacation, some from self-touted experts, some even from news crews, helicopter pilots, boat captains, the list goes on and on.
Chupracabre is most likely a dog, coytote, or some similar animal that has been burned or severely wounded making its appearance groteque, but it doesnt change the fact that people witness some kind of monster killing off their chickens and tealing them in the night. Sometimes even being attacked themselves by it.
With bigfoot, this is not a magical animal, it has no special powers, it doesn't act like Harry from the Henderson family (though it could, nothing unproven is factually disproven), we are simply talking about the idea of a type of ape in north western territories that has not been captured or found dead or studied by man. There's nothing unbelievable about that, just as there was nothing unbelievable about the giant squid before it was 'proven' to the doubting Thomas's (you guys) who could stick their hand in its wounds and see it for themselves.
There are apes all over the planet, and witnesses suggest that there is an ape in the north-west forests in America. That's it.
One of my favorite examples of how idiotic people can be is the idea that pigeons do not lay eggs and give live births to an infant that already has the features of an adult pigeon (there is no bird on earth that does this even Nidifugous, while being able to run immeadiately, do not have flight at birth and look like infants). When the rumor became really popular, news reporters went around to local zoologists asking them for pictures of baby pigeons. I remember seeing an interview with a guy who raises pigeons and said "honestly, I watch them break out of the egg and i've seen them as babies, but i have no pictures of it." and had to show the news crew the actual pigeon nests, with the actual eggs, and the actual infant pigeons.
It was probably one of the most stupiderest moments of human history I had the misfortune to witness.
Bigfoot isn't real?! - Dark Jaguar - 26th January 2006
Let me ask you something. Before confirmation of the giant squid, was it really an unreasonable position to go into to disbelief it for the time being?
No.
People once thought the world was flat. They were wrong. People once thought the world was a perfectly spherical shape. They too were wrong. But, if you think that the people who thought the world was a sphere were just as wrong as those thinking the world was flat, you are more wrong than both of them put together.
What I mean to say is this. Sure, Bigfoot MAY exist, and if evidence is presented, I will believe it to be the case. However, I have no reason to believe it exists. To believe in something just because you are afraid you might be wrong is foolish. All we really have to go by in the end is evidence. Believe every single crazy thing you can think of and suddenly you can't form a decision any more. Every functional person to at least some degree has to exibit SOME skepticism to make any choice at all as to what move to make next.
You say you saw a UFO. I suspect if I probed deeper I would discover you've also had a psychic experience in your life, am I right?
I was like that once, I believed every crazy notion because of just how compelling it was, with no evidence to back it up.
You have not yet considered more reasonable explanations for that UFO siting. Now, this I'm pretty sure of. You saw something you could not identify that, relative to SOMETHING, appeared to be moving in a jig jag pattern. Relative to what exactly? Were you staring at it through some trees? Sometimes the branches of trees can sway and give the illusion of very fast movement. Was it really that far away? Was it really that close? You are not even examining the possibility that you properly gauged the distance of the object. Everyone's always seeing strange things moving 'zig zaggy". I'm not impressed. I don't know all the details. I can't tell you what you saw with any level of certainty. What I can say is you have yet to provide anything that says "yes, this MUST be an alien space ship or possibly some government secret craft". There are far too many other possibilities.
Sorry lazy, I'm not sure if you have always been this way in regards to "woo" beliefs, but I have this to say. You are not engaging in rational thought. These are religious claims. Now I'm not going to debate religion with you or anything, but the fact remains the conclusions you are drawing based on these occurances are not founded in scientific method.
You can be very insightful, but I'm getting the impression that you aren't exactly a fan of critical thinking. In fact, if you are like others I've met, you probably find the very concept of critical thinking either an impossibility or an offensive tool that turns people into closed minded clods.
Bigfoot isn't real?! - lazyfatbum - 26th January 2006
Are you insane? That post made absolutely no sense. I dont know what you're 'reading into' but you're way the hell off course.
Try reading the posts before making accusations or assumptions.
Bigfoot isn't real?! - EdenMaster - 26th January 2006
Dark Jaguar Wrote:You say you saw a UFO. I suspect if I probed deeper I would discover you've also had a psychic experience in your life, am I right?
I was like that once, I believed every crazy notion because of just how compelling it was, with no evidence to back it up.
You have not yet considered more reasonable explanations for that UFO siting. Now, this I'm pretty sure of. You saw something you could not identify that, relative to SOMETHING, appeared to be moving in a jig jag pattern. Relative to what exactly? Were you staring at it through some trees? Sometimes the branches of trees can sway and give the illusion of very fast movement. Was it really that far away? Was it really that close? You are not even examining the possibility that you properly gauged the distance of the object. Everyone's always seeing strange things moving 'zig zaggy". I'm not impressed. I don't know all the details. I can't tell you what you saw with any level of certainty. What I can say is you have yet to provide anything that says "yes, this MUST be an alien space ship or possibly some government secret craft". There are far too many other possibilities.
I believe lazy on this one. I don't think it's far-fetched in the least to consider that he did see something he couldn't explain that day. Whether it was man-made or came from afar is neither here nor there, though I would not discount either possibility and I would even go as far as to say those are the two BEST explanations. Do I think there is intelligent life somewhere out in the void, and they've come to visit? I'd bet my life. Do I think there is some top-secret, incredibly advanced technology hidden away in the highest reaches of government classification? Again, I'd bet my life. Either way, I wouldn't doubt for a second what he saw, whatever it was. Besides, he mentioned that he phoned a friend who watched it as well, from another vantage point assumedly, and was able to describe the objects movements to him. The descriptions matched meaning not only he, but another saw the same object acting the same way, and thus it was not simply a matter of how it looked to Sean. That cannot be disputed.
Indeed, I'd say some of the "other possibilites" would be neither more nor less credible than what we're presenting.
Bigfoot isn't real?! - Dark Jaguar - 26th January 2006
It CAN be disputed actually.
Here's the deal. Everything science has seen thus far says there is no way to exceed light speed. It is a physical impossibility, because at light speed anything with a mass greater than zero becomes infinitly massive, and as such requires an infinite amount of energy to accelerate it further. We have yet to find a source of infinite energy.
There is also the possibility that someone is lying or remembering the details incorrectly. These are things that current science says ARE possible.
So no, other explanations are NOT less plausible.
Why is it you believe we have actually been visited by alien life forms? What makes you reach this conclusion? Do you just want it to be so?
And lazy, it's rather clear what I'm saying. I'm saying that if there is no reason to think something is true, then there is no reason to think it is true. I have no reason to believe you actually saw an alien craft OR some super advanced secret flyer. The eye witness accounts of a couple of people simply aren't credible evidence. This has been shown to be the case time and again. Anecdote is not the plural of evidence I'm afraid. I'm just supposed to take your word for it?