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+--- Thread: Constructing an artificial human brain. (/showthread.php?tid=3471)
Constructing an artificial human brain. - Dark Jaguar - 23rd January 2006
http://www.newscientist.com/article.ns?id=dn7470
This is several months old, but it's the first I've heard of it. Seems a group, after painstakingly gathering data via experimentation, is now prepairing to create an artificial brain modelled via computer.
Now, the details on how feasible this even IS with current computer technology aside, there's a nagging moral question.
Would it be right to turn this thing off?
Constructing an artificial human brain. - N-Man - 23rd January 2006
Mmm, the ethical minefield of bioengineering. Smells like bacon. I think I'm gonna become a Luddite and live in darkness all my life, I'm thoroughly uninterested in broaching these questions.
Constructing an artificial human brain. - Great Rumbler - 23rd January 2006
Only one man can turn it off.
![[Image: BLA_0002.gif]](http://dandalf.com/dandalf/BLA_0002.gif)
Constructing an artificial human brain. - Dark Jaguar - 23rd January 2006
This isn't bioengineering really, it's a truly artifical brain, created totally via computer programming and some SUPER smart computer.
Don't think about it now, but soon we WILL have to deal with concia, or "ghosts" perhaps, dwelling in an artificial, almost shell-like structure.
Who's in that pic?
http://www.newscientist.com/article.ns?id=mg18925354.000
Here's a link to more stuff. More questsions, regarding altering our brains to further cognitive abilities. With drugs to actually enhance things or inhibit other things, we are getting closer to a lot of the sci-fi moral issues you might otherwise only see in Star Trek.
I for one would love to upgrade my brain, but yes long term testing of these drugs is important. However, I have to draw the line at actually forcing people to modify their minds to get a job. There's a lot of bad that could happen, but there's also too much good to ignore.
Then there's the hypothesis that after we first link up to the internet with our conciousness, we'll all never want to leave, and slowly our minds will be as one. Resistance is futile...
But hey, we'd have a fun uber quest, perfection.
Constructing an artificial human brain. - Great Rumbler - 23rd January 2006
Quote:Who's in that pic?
Rick Deckard's the characters, Harrison Ford's the actor. From Blade Runner.
Constructing an artificial human brain. - Sacred Jellybean - 23rd January 2006
Quote:Would it be right to turn this thing off?
I'm leaning towards "yes". Arrogant as it may sound, the robot's existence relied solely on the humans. It would about be the equivalent of a male lion killing its own cubs. Cruel, but... in the mind of the more advanced and superior (in the Darwinian sense) creature, it's a threat. Is Darwinianism wrong? Well... it got us to where we are today, didn't it?
I must say, though, it's about time someone began doing this. I'd have done it last year if I weren't too preoccupied with school.
Joking aside, I'm glad to see this get taken on in a contemporary form. I've felt for a while now that the human mind, however irrational it can potentially be, can still be abstracted and mapped out in a rational way. Yeah, even with emotions. Once you learn enough about emotional behavior, you can come to expect certain things. And with enough studying, trends will emerge. Don't mean to go on a rant, but if psychology is such a soft science, then why have people had such trouble making artificial intelligence? Technology alone? Neurology? One of the founders of Psychology (god bless him but I learned his name years ago and he ain't as culturally-combatible as Sigmund Freud) tried to map out the human mind, but he failed.
I guess we'll find out. I'll be interested to see how accurate they can make it.
Quote:Here's a link to more stuff. More questsions, regarding altering our brains to further cognitive abilities. With drugs to actually enhance things or inhibit other things, we are getting closer to a lot of the sci-fi moral issues you might otherwise only see in Star Trek.
I for one would love to upgrade my brain, but yes long term testing of these drugs is important. However, I have to draw the line at actually forcing people to modify their minds to get a job. There's a lot of bad that could happen, but there's also too much good to ignore.
Good points. In my opinion, a person's own body is sacred. He should be allowed to do with it whatever he pleases, as long as he understands and accepts the consequences to his actions.
Quote:Then there's the hypothesis that after we first link up to the internet with our conciousness, we'll all never want to leave, and slowly our minds will be as one. Resistance is futile...
Not me! THEY'LL HAVE TO TEAR MY REAL LIFE HANDS FROM MY COLD DEAD HANDS!!
Quote:But hey, we'd have a fun uber quest, perfection.
"Perfection" is subjective to each person. What I would hope is that we get off this planet, explore others, find plenty of places to live, and allow people to be fruitful and multiply upon them. Why?
Well, once we can't find peaceful ways to resolve our moral differences, we can do two things: A) Kill a whole bunch of people, or B) Find a way to co-exist. If we find enough land to live in, we can at least HOPE for co-existence over something as subjective as morals.
And this musn't happen within the regions of earth! Everyone join me in being a cool sci fi geek and lobbying for space exploration.
Constructing an artificial human brain. - Dark Jaguar - 23rd January 2006
http://content.ytmnd.com/content/f/0/f046ea11182b99402d6cd63d1c8853e9.wav
Constructing an artificial human brain. - Sacred Jellybean - 23rd January 2006
What's that supposed to be? I opened it in Winamp and it just came out a weird, jumbled sound.
Constructing an artificial human brain. - Great Rumbler - 23rd January 2006
Sounds like a song from an NES game.
Constructing an artificial human brain. - Dark Jaguar - 23rd January 2006
That's called "how the heck am I supposed to save that file in their HTML to my hard disk, oh I know!".
Constructing an artificial human brain. - Dark Jaguar - 27th January 2006
I think I should explain that this isn't just building a sophisticated program pretending to be human.
It's a physics simulation of the activity that goes on in a human brain as we currently understand it. The idea is to test current understanding of brain physiology to see if it can create an intelligence. If this works, then from there we can start examining it to see how it works. It's reverse engineering basically, rather than actually knowing how a human intelligence works and creating the program, it's knowing the physics behind it and creating a program simulating it to see how the intelligence operates.
That said, if this is succesful, it should have all the capabilities of a human being. It's not an android, it's a realian.
Constructing an artificial human brain. - Sacred Jellybean - 27th January 2006
Sorry, I misread. I was stoned.
I'll post more thoughts later when I have TIME for you nerds.
:)
Constructing an artificial human brain. - Weltall - 27th January 2006
I pose this question:
Why are we attempting to construct an artificial brain when we understand so little of those we're born with?
Constructing an artificial human brain. - EdenMaster - 27th January 2006
Ryan Wrote:Why are we attempting to construct an artificial brain when we understand so little of those we're born with?
Perhaps they're hoping that studying how the artificial brain operates will provide insight as to some of the complex workings of our own gray matter.
Constructing an artificial human brain. - Weltall - 28th January 2006
EdenMaster Wrote:Perhaps they're hoping that studying how the artificial brain operates will provide insight as to some of the complex workings of our own gray matter.
Maybe.
To me though, it sounds like writing a book when you barely know how to read.
Constructing an artificial human brain. - lazyfatbum - 29th January 2006
More is known than you realize, unfortunately it's all debated. You have the realist views in combat with the 'magical' views (who say its 'too complicated' to understand) and then you have factual evidence which is very thin but proves many of the theorized workings of all brain structures.
The biggest problem is trying to figure out the odd portion of the human brain that for all accounts looks very weak in comparison to the rest of the brain but this is that fabled '10%' you hear about. Other hominids (and to an extent some marine mammals) have this layer but not in proportions that we do, it's almost like a budding portion portion of th brain found in higher mammals (like us) that never fully forms. Current theory is that it's a transitional period in to what will eventually come a full-fledged new layer of the brain, other theories suggest its simply there to help the animal work in an advanced social structure while operating independently (unlike other advanced social animals like ants which rely on a master or primary member to conduct the group). I'm leaning more towards the latter, too bad the rest of human civilization still thinks there has to be one given leader in order function.
But this malformed layer has nothing to do with puzzle solving or decision making or the often claimed "ability to reason" which all living things have. Instead this portion of the brain seems to act like a buffer for thinking out of the box, it's in this portion of the brain in higher mammals where 'imagination' happens, when people first aqcuired this layer somewhere between erectus and sapien we started inventing ideas of afterlife and increasing 'luck' by sacrificing or begging to higher powers than what is known. So basically, once this layer of brain formed, we started advanced imagination and creating new realities either for purposes of religion, story telling or even applied to practical thinking as in how to hunt much larger or dangerous animals, how to keep hidden and how to stay in one place and keep the society functioning without everything falling a part.
It's litteraly the mushy buffer for rational logical thought, it thinks illogically to allow for new paradigms of thought and it's what we use (just as an example) when viewing art.
But as far as simple brain functions or brain functions of lower animals we have a pretty good knowledge base to justify the creation of a digital one and like was previously said it will give us clues in to how the higher brain functions work and allow us the opportunity to see a physically working brain to give us more insight in to how to raise our children and function in society on an even more advanced level (less violent, more prosperous, better ideals of goals, less confusing, etc)
Constructing an artificial human brain. - Dark Jaguar - 29th January 2006
Yes Weltall, you are right. They are attempting to construct a brain without knowing how it works. It's called reverse engineering. It is actually done pretty often in other fields of science. For example, particle accelerators do the same things. If they actually knew what the results of those reactions would be, there would be no point in engaging in the experiment. Rather, they attempt to recreate certain situations based on their current predictions, measure the results, and see what they have learned. If the results support the observations they made before on how the universe works, they have succesfully made a model of something. Otherwise, they adjust and try again with a new experiment.
It's the same here. We have an understanding of the chemical reactions that take place in the brain, but want to know a lot more about the actual programming of the brain. Create a brain, study it, and you get some answers. For example, you can get an answer as to whether or not the understanding of the physical nature of the brain is accurate. An experiment may not reach the hypothesized result, but you still learn something, so it is always of value.
The real question is simply this. How feasible is it to actually do what they intend to do?