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+--- Thread: Revolution controller secret revealed? (/showthread.php?tid=3431)
Revolution controller secret revealed? - Smoke - 4th January 2006
Revolution - Featuring Tilt Resistance... ?
Revolution controller secret revealed? - Great Rumbler - 4th January 2006
Hard to say.
Revolution controller secret revealed? - A Black Falcon - 4th January 2006
It'd be cool, but who knows...
Revolution controller secret revealed? - Sacred Jellybean - 4th January 2006
Seems unlikely.
Revolution controller secret revealed? - The Former DMiller - 4th January 2006
It sounds like it would be difficult and/or expensive to implement, but it would be really, really cool.
Revolution controller secret revealed? - Great Rumbler - 4th January 2006
You'd definitely need more than just a few simple gyros to make it work.
Revolution controller secret revealed? - lazyfatbum - 5th January 2006
ITS MY IDEA
ITS MY IDEA AND IT ROCKS
SEE??? SEE??? YOU'RE ALL PIGS!!!!!!!
PIIIIIGGGSS!!!!!
SORSHA!!!!!!!!!!!! SNORT!!!!!! SNORT!!!!!
WILLOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
BELIEVE IN THE WORDS!!!!!!!!!!!!
CONCENTRATE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
***I CANT IM NOT POWERFUL ENOUGH***
AHAHAGAGAGAGAHH!111
Revolution controller secret revealed? - lazyfatbum - 5th January 2006
I've been thinking about this years before the controller was unveiled, that video games need a 3-D controller. Which creates a huge problem, how do you make people feel like they're steering a car or plane, hitting a sword, firing a gun, etc? Rumble doesn't cut it, it never really has. And if you're going to push immersion, you NEED a more in-depth feedback system! Thus guy sums exactly what I imagine:
Quote:it would be directional force-feedback. The further you move away from a point, the greater the force pushing back.
Now incorporate classic rumble as well, like the vibration from a GC controller, and imagine you're playing Metroid Prime 3.
You see an enemy that hasn't noticed you yet, you sneak closer while you start to power up your cannon by holding down the button on the back, it glows in front of you, lighting up the walls and puddles of water rumbling in your hands. The creature sees you, begins to charge, you aim your controller and suddenly you realize that it's extremely hard to aim, your arm immeadiately flys up, you try to center it back down, you can feel it twisting in your hand, if you let go it will fly out of your palm. You get it aimed just right as the creature is a few feet away from you, and when you let go of the back button, your hand flys backwards towards you, like the recoil of a massive gun.
I'M FUCKING WET
Revolution controller secret revealed? - Great Rumbler - 5th January 2006
Let's not all go crazy here!
Revolution controller secret revealed? - The Former DMiller - 5th January 2006
Haha, it would make for some awesome games lazy, but don't get too excited because it's very unlikely that it will be included in the Revolution controller.
Revolution controller secret revealed? - Dark Jaguar - 5th January 2006
Here's the problem lazy. A gyroscope only provides resistance in the sense that if you try to ROTATE the spin, it resists because of the sudden attempt to change the object's state of motion, and the inertia involved is a lot greater than simply moving it side to side. That said, moving it side to side, along the line of the spinning thingy, will provide no resistance. That can only work in a very limited fasion that wouldn't make it worth the cost. Counter balances are interesting, perhaps some sort of weights that snap back and forth to pop it, but that only works for a split second of applied force and then it has to reset. Also, it adds the weight of those weights.
Anything added in this way just won't work too well... In the end, there's only so much force feedback that can be provided without just plain tethering the whole thing to a boon attached to the ground, something that itself could sense all those motions and could react smoothly with the motors programmed to react in various ways. I've seen 3d mice that use similar technology that can be used to "touch" a virtual object with that sort of resistance, reacting differently to tapping wood, mud, and metal. Those will work VERY well though, however I don't think they would sell. They are VERY expensive, require a lot of extra coding, and well, despite how immersive it would be, sort of defeat the entire purpose of having a remote controller.
Revolution controller secret revealed? - lazyfatbum - 5th January 2006
That was just a mouse ball with various degrees of resistance controlled by a brake pad.
It's true that gyroscopes need to have a counter-movement in order for you to feel it, but think of this. You take light weights and cause them to spin very quickly thus creating more weight displacement and use a small motor to adjust the direction of the spin depending on what's happening on-screen, so the motor would have a 180 degree rotation to give the game player the push or pull that is expected from the objects he's interacting with.
It's completely plausible.
Revolution controller secret revealed? - Dark Jaguar - 6th January 2006
No it wasn't a "mouse ball". Not sure what you are thinking about there, but I'm talking about a stylus hooked up to a sort of robot arm that could be moved around in 3D space and the robot arm had several motors and sensors.
Revolution controller secret revealed? - Great Rumbler - 6th January 2006
Quote:It's completely plausible.
And likely very expensive as well.
Revolution controller secret revealed? - Sacred Jellybean - 6th January 2006
Willow is awesome. I need to see that movie again. Ron-Howard-apple-pie-faced-turn-me-homosexual-for-3-seconds goodness.
But the soundtrack is really awesome. Lazy- do you have the entire soundtrack? I'm missing a couple of Krull tracks, too, if you have that. Actually, you were the one who turned me onto these soundtracks, years ago when I still had my Horner innocence. But I digress. Hook a brotha up?
Revolution controller secret revealed? - lazyfatbum - 6th January 2006
That sucks Krull is so hard to find. :/
I'm getting a new pooter soon where i'll be able to get stuff off my old hard drive, until then we're both screwed out of Hornerness.
And yeah, Val Kilmer is a pretty, pretty man. Unless... you speak of when the Brownies fell in love with one another, but that was the result of love dust from which
BREAK IT DOWN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
FIND THE BABY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Sorry DJ, I misread. There was a neat little mouse that basically gave various degrees of torque while dragging but never really caught on. With what you're talking about, was it a self contained device? Did it use gyroscopes to give the feeling of resistance in 3-D space? Post some links on it so we can read up.
Obviously it would be done in a way that's cheap and affortable for consumers. It's quite possible we could be looking at $50+ controllers though. IMO the ceiling for such a controller should never go beyond the 70 to 80 dollar range. That's the same price point of larger 'real' force feedback controllers for PC.
I imagine that when you play a game, the controller will be recieving information from the Rev (or the sensor underneath the TV) to include information of a dead zone. But the gyroid would always be spinning from the moment you turn it on but wouldn't be trying to counter your movements.
So the controller will basically continue to push and pull until you get it in to the dead zone or area of least resistance. Once you're there, moving outside that area would generate the feeling of pushing and pulling by creating higher speeds and angles of the gyro the further you move away from the dead zone.
Now imagine that the Rev can tell the controller that the dead zone is changing. For example you're playing Zelda which is kind of first person and you have the bow equipped, th Revcon will act like the string of the bow; so in the game you will see that holding the revcon where Link's hand is not pulling the string at all but is still grasping it, will give the feeling of no resistance. As you pull back the revcon will slowly gain spin faster at a grading angle that will give you the feeling of resistance - go too far back and the resistance will be so great that the arrow will misfire or the string will break.
Now imagine you're using the master sword, the dead zone becomes straight down or straight up (to run while carrying the sword), any movement outside these two zones will act like the weight of the sword. The faster you strike the sword in any direction, the more force you will feel as the enertia of the sword is displaced through movement. Now let's say you swung your sword and hit a bad guy. For that instance, where you hit him becomes a new dead zone so there's no resistance at all, giving you the feeling of striking something heavy against an object where it can rest. When your sword is taken off the object, it returns back to the two original dead zones.
But let's say after you swung on the enemy, you went for a killing blow, shoving the sword through it. Now it becomes a dead zone just like last time but now the resistance of getting the sword out of the enemy's body will fight your movements as you try to work it out.
Now, i have no idea how this is going to work in a Mario game. If you look at Mario Sunshine you can imagine the revcon simply acting like a virtual Mario, you would feel all the forces of gravity and weight in the revcon as Mario bounces around. The faster you move, the more weight is displaced. But it would be neat if it handled like his body, holding it straight up at a standing position, then tilting the front end forward to make him start running, the more you tilt forward, the faster he runs, the more resistance you feel in trying to turn.
As far as FPS games, just imagine playing any game with an automatic weapon, you aim the gun (slight resistance to give the illusion of weight from the gun) and you fire off your rounds, as you're firing the revcon is moving the dead zone higher and higher making it want to move upwards while you fight for it stay on your target. Firing a semi-auto like a handgun would be easier, you aim and fire and the dead zone would jump to the highest point for a split second. Meaning that when you fire, the revcon will lunge upwards for a second at its highest point of resistance just like the recoil of a gun.
You would have to hold the controller like a real gun, right hand on trigger pushing forward, left hand in front of right pulling back, this will keep your gun steady as it tries to fly off during combat. As you become more skilled at controlling the recoil you can start using one hand to fire
God i seriously hope those Nintendo quotes are true.
Revolution controller secret revealed? - N_A - 6th January 2006
Well whatever the secret is, Nintendo better make it a worthy secret because other companies are already trampling over Nintendo's so called patents and copying them already, as you can see here:
http://www.joystiq.com/2006/01/06/revolution-controller-inspires-3rd-party-ps2-controller/
Revolution controller secret revealed? - Great Rumbler - 6th January 2006
Quote:According to CNET, the DualFX "laser system proved very inconsistent in hands-on tests". We wouldn't be surprised to find that this is a sign of bad engineering and poor integration with the software, rather than of a flawed design.
Aside from the fact that it's a third party controller that games were never designed to use.
Revolution controller secret revealed? - Smoke - 7th January 2006
I think the secret involves an elaborate set of weights and pulleys. That or it's this:
![[Image: gyro.jpg]](http://davidszondy.com/future/war/gyro.jpg)
Revolution controller secret revealed? - Laser Link - 13th January 2006
My school's graphics lab had one of those 3D mouse devices DJ is talking about. I used it a couple times. We had it hooked up to the SGI boxes, so usually students weren't allowed in the lab alone as it contained hundreds of thousands of dollars of equipment. Anyway...
It was pretty cool. It was like a box with a robot arm on it, and you put your finger into the end of the arm. On the screen was a simple rubber ball with an image of a "finger" touching the ball. As you pulled your figner away, the ball stretched and the arm provided resistance that made it harder to pull. It was very simple, but cool to interact with.
I also learned about research being done with advanced force feedback to train medical students. They want to practice virtual surgery by providing the students with a head mounted display of the surgery area and a "knife" (or whatever other tools they would be using) that is really just a controller. As the student cuts through skin, cartillege, blood vessels, bone, etc, the "knife" would respond realistically. I heard about this a couple years ago and at the time it sounded like they were pretty far along with the idea.
So none of that is exactly the same as what we are hoping for, but it does show you that the research has been underway for a while and could be farther along than anyone really thinks.
Revolution controller secret revealed? - Smoke - 15th January 2006
I hope in the next 20 years this will all become moot and they'll be able to stick a big wire in the back of my neck like in The Matrix.
Quote:In 2004, the name "Trinity" was the 48th most common name for baby girls. God help us all.
Woah.
Revolution controller secret revealed? - Sacred Jellybean - 15th January 2006
Yeah... then again, 48th? There's probably a big drop-off after all the Jennifers and Michelles and Rachels and all the other common ones are knocked out of the way.
Revolution controller secret revealed? - lazyfatbum - 15th January 2006
Well it's better than the 506th and 507th most popular first and middle name-combos for girls: Miss Gloria Misterdick and Miss Raqueef Messypussy or the 2067th most popular name for boys Mr. Cornshit S. McTinklepenis (the S stands for 'Strangelove').
But Trinity is a good pagan name to celebrate your Roman history as being depicted as the devil in the bible so that everytime you call your daughter you simultaneously denounce God.