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+--- Thread: Person sues Nasa (/showthread.php?tid=3044)
Person sues Nasa - Dark Jaguar - 7th July 2005
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/4649987.stm
Quote:"This impact could have altered the orbit of the comet, so now there is a chance that the Tempel may well destroy the Earth some day!"
This is the argument they are making. The fact that if it was never ever going to cross Earth's orbit and such an impact would make it an earth crosser, it could be undone in much the same way and we would have a massive lead time (say, perhaps a few million years) escapes her. Apparently, a risk is a risk, no matter how low the probabilities are.
Oh yeah, you all saw that impact right? It was pretty impressive and revealed a lot of data about that comet.
Also, keep in mind this was an astrologist, not an astronomer...
The NASA guys pointed out the effect of the object was about as relevant as slamming a mosquito into an airliner. Certainly, I wouldn't even mind being IN the plane, with loved ones, when something like that occured. It just wouldn't matter.
Also note that the risk of it slamming into the planet isn't the only thing she's saying. As an astrologer, she believes ANY alterations in the orbit at all have had strong effects on her future, and as such NASA owes her compensation for affecting her fate without her permission. She calls it a "moral trauma".
Person sues Nasa - Great Rumbler - 7th July 2005
What a looney.
Person sues Nasa - Dark Jaguar - 7th July 2005
Please note I did my best to represent her in the most accurate light possible, without attempting to portray her in a bad light. Being fair doesn't really mean representing all ideas with equal validity. It only means representing them all accuratly and using all available data to analyze which is most likely. In this case, the data basically states that this is a frivilous lawsuit brought on by someone who doesn't have proper training in skeptical analysis of various beliefs.
I think I'll quote the bottom of the article regarding another claim the lawyers involved in the lawsuit are making.
Quote:"The impact changed the magnetic properties of the comet, and this could have affected mobile telephony here on Earth. If your phone went down this morning, ask yourself Why? and then get in touch with us," says Mr Molokhov.
Basically the argument is the magnetic properties have been changed in the comet and that this may have a strong effect on Earth's telecommunications. Well, since that's pretty much exactly what they said, me paraphrasing it wasn't really needed, but if I got it wrong my interpretation is right there for criticism.
I'll start with what I see as a logical problem in how they are gathering claimants.
Namely, they are saying if you had problems with your cell phone when the impact occured, ask yourself why, and get ahold of them. What they are suggesting, rather strongly, without just plain saying it, is simply that cell phone problems are such a rarity that only this could have accounted for it. The only reason to gather that number is to simply impress the courts with the large number of cell phone issues that occured that day. The obvious question from any skeptic is simple. How does this compare with the number of cell phone problems on any previous day, on average? If it's a significant number, and it would need to be very large to not be accounted for by a mere fluctuation, then it's worth looking into. Otherwise, from what we know about magnetism, it's not even worth looking into the possibility that, while other days they occur aat the same rate, this day they were all caused by this specifically.
Now here's the thing. That thing they slammed into the comet was mainly copper. Magnetism affects are definitily possible. The question is could it affect Earth?
From what I've seen of magnetism and how it can affect us, no. The sun is the strongest magnetic source we have. On occasion, a massive burst of energy can be launched at Earth which can and has had a strong enough effect that it has shorted out large areas of our electrical networks (actually, Quebec's). This is caused by the sun's magnetism, but is not the magnetism itself. It's actually a huge burst of solar "wind", normally carried safely in large bands of magnetism, but sometimes is launched en masse in some random direction when one of those magnetic lines is stressed to the point of snapping apart. The actual magnetism itself doesn't affect us.
The earth is a large object with a magnetic field weaker than a refrigerator magnet. The evidence for this can be found by just holding a fridge magnet up to a compass. Repeat as many times as needed to confirm it wasn't just a random anomaly.
This comet has a much much weaker magnetic field, and this copper thing slammed into it would likely have such a small effect that it couldn't even be noticed by strong magnetic detectors. I doubt that the field can even be detected at all. If the field has any effect, then by definition, it can be detected, if at least by the effect itself. With what we have learned about magnetism, strong magnetic fields that do have effects on electronic equipment can easily be detected by instruments designed to do so.
What I'm saying is, from what I've gathered, this specific claim as well as the rest seems unfounded.
Person sues Nasa - A Black Falcon - 7th July 2005
Just a random nutcase...
Person sues Nasa - N-Man - 7th July 2005
Probably figures any publicity is better than no publicity.
Person sues Nasa - Dark Jaguar - 7th July 2005
Well, from my own experience (not that that is sufficient evidence mind you), I would wager that more likely than not, this person may be wrong, but at least honestly believes what she is saying. The lawyers are another issue :D.
Person sues Nasa - Darunia - 8th July 2005
Looniest. Fucking. Looney. Ever. For even listening to that case, the US Court should be ashamed.
Person sues Nasa - Dark Jaguar - 8th July 2005
Read the article. It's not the US court.
It's the Russian court.
There's a matter I didn't even bother bringing up myself, but it's worth asking the question.
Could any court order from a foreign government really hold any power at all over an American citizen and/or institution? The very most they could get out of us is that our own courts would look into the matter and make their own verdict.
But, just so you know, yes, our courts have made some very horrible errors in logical thinking before.
For example, the AMAZING Randi has been privy to a case against a psychic on charges of fraud (I am shocked these cases aren't tried more often) in which the judge stated at the very start that the existance of psychic powers is an established fact and any prosecution can't call the existance of psychic powers itself into question, just whether or not this person actually had them. That pretty much killed the entire prosecuting case right there as you can imagine... When a judge has decided that scientific process and the ability to correct data (in this case, the total refusal to consider reviewing any evidence that psychic powers didn't exist, because they simply "did"), the entire process of law has been thrown out the window.
Person sues Nasa - Great Rumbler - 8th July 2005
It's hard enough to successfully sue a branch of the American goverment in an American court, much less a RUSSIAN court. But, she'd actually have to win the lawsuit, which is unlikely.
Person sues Nasa - Darunia - 8th July 2005
Astrologers... how can anyone even believe in that malarky? A bunch of random tidbits that anyone can misinterpret and make come true. And a Russian on top of it all... Russia already has an image as being more backwards and less advanced than the rest of the Western World. These things aren't helping.
Person sues Nasa - Smoke - 10th July 2005
So if a star goes nova does that mess up her fate as well? Also that star went nova long, long ago and the predictions she's been making are based on a star that's not even there anymore. What then?
Person sues Nasa - Dark Jaguar - 10th July 2005
That's a great point, the fact that the speed of light is LIMITED, but here's another!
The fact is, due to where the Earth is compaired to where it was back when astrology was first thought up, all the star signs are roughly a month off.
Person sues Nasa - A Black Falcon - 10th July 2005
Quote:... Russia already has an image as being more backwards and less advanced than the rest of the Western World. These things aren't helping.
An "image"? More like a recognized fact... :)
And not just because of this.
Person sues Nasa - Dark Jaguar - 10th July 2005
There are logical people in Russia though. This isn't one of them, and there are people in positions of authority who certainly aren't. I wouldn't label the entire nation as "backwards hicks", because, well, I know how offensive such stigma can be.
On another note, the Tulsa Zoo recently was going to agree on a project presenting Creationism on equal footing with evolution. At any rate, thanks to a lot of protests and a vote 2:1 (the 1 going to the fine mayor of Tulsa) against, they changed their minds and have decided not to go through with such an endorsement at what is otherwise a model zoo. (It really is a nice zoo besides this fiasco, no small outdoor caged areas with one side lined with stale disgusting water or anythings. Most of the big animals have massive ranges and stuff to roam around in, the downside being you have a somewhat small chance of getting to see a lot of them and if you do, it's from a great distance peering into holes put in a very VERY tall fence. Plus, lots of science exibits all over the place, I BELIEVE the most recent one is a microclimate built to reproduce jungle conditions in a massive area with netting for walls which holds a lot of interesting flora and also jaguars. So, yeah it's a nice zoo besides this.)
Person sues Nasa - Great Rumbler - 10th July 2005
The stars and planets are in different positions depending on what planet you're on. So how does that work?
Person sues Nasa - Dark Jaguar - 10th July 2005
It's probably a more absolute positioning to ask them. Problem is, there is no absolute frame of reference (ether just doesn't exist, thanks Einstein!).
Now, this in mind, I wonder how many lawsuits from astrologers I could aquire by BLOWING UP MERCURY. That would be fun :D.