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So apparently psych is a pseudoscience... - Printable Version

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So apparently psych is a pseudoscience... - Dark Jaguar - 24th June 2005

No not psychic powers, that's certainly that.

Tom Cruise has apparently been quoted as calling all psychiatry pseudoscience (or antiscience if you prefer).

Now if you are wondering why I would even bring up a celebrity quote like that, well, it's more about the science claim.

Basically I think Tom just didn't do enough research. A more accurate statement would be "the public image of what psychiatry is and the "psychiatry shows" are pseudoscience. You know, guys like Dr. Phil or the image we all have of psychiatrists basically just talking things out with you on a couch and uncovering subconcious stuff, that's pseudoscience. The reality is psychiatry is a lot less magical than that... Basically the real psychiatrists, the ones who don't have late night radio shows, are just figuring out basic programatic methods of brain operation and how specially measured out combinations of chemicals in the brain can effect these reactions. Some of that bleeds into the common view of it, but it's not all that. In general, that crazy german guy we all know the name of was wrong on a lot of counts, specifically the idea that things like hypnosis are any more real than demon posession states or the idea of a real subconcious or the idea that crack is a good medicinal aid.


So apparently psych is a pseudoscience... - Great Rumbler - 24th June 2005

It doesn't have anything to do with lack of research, which probably wouldn't make any difference to him, he's a Scientologist and they believe that all medicine for mental illness is bad. And a bunch of other crazy stuff.


So apparently psych is a pseudoscience... - alien space marine - 24th June 2005

No thanks to L'Ron Hobble

who's hatred of psyciatry can be seen non scientology books who wrote like battlefeild earth alien race the "Psyclos" invade earth.

Its true psychiatry has a had a dark history no thanks to religous superstituous influiences , Pseudoscience , Its true in the 19th century common treatment for mental ilness was smacking the individual on the temple with like a Shizzle intrument , Circumcision or genital mutilation to due arciac sectarian dark age beleifs that human sexuality caused insanity thanks to the church, Freakish labotomies.

But if you go back in the same timeline regular medical treatment waisnt to good either, You had bloodletting and alot of unsafe and dangerous practices, More Pseudoscience type treatments with snakeoils or rituals.

Psyciatry no longer is like anymore , Thanks to science and secularism.

Psyciatry today if its good and well grounded usually doesnt do any kind of forced drugin or brutalizing right off the bat , The usually evaluate the patient and though couciling and psycology sessions for threapy , In same cases the person could be Halucinating and traumatized by psycotic images causing them great distress that medication might be needed to remedy the situation if my uncle missed his medication for to long he would start to do odd and bizzare things losing himself in his own world even risking injury to himself,Depression is proven scientifically to be caused by a chemical imbalance in the brain causing mood problems chronic anxeity iritability, Anti Depressants work well combined with regular exercise both have been proven to combat the effects of depression.

scientology is a complete delusion and mass control cult made to make lots of green and feed hungry egos who love power and control.


So apparently psych is a pseudoscience... - A Black Falcon - 24th June 2005

Tom Cruise is ... um, as GR said, can we just say 'he's a Scientologist' and let that stand for itsself? :)

The difference between psychiatrists and psychologists, I'm pretty sure I've learned, is that psychiatrists can proscribe medicine, while psychologists just talk to you... so those TV people are mainly trying to be psychologists, not psychiatrists. :)

... so does that mean that scientologists just have a problem with psychiatrists, not psychologists? Of course finding problems with either is stupid, because they are quite definitely proven to work... I should know... (well, not the medicine part, as I don't want to use any, but the therapist (psychologist I guess) part anyway...)

Other than that... what made you bring this up? I mean, I doubt that anyone here is going to agree with whose silly accusations Cruise made or anything... so what's the point?

Quote:In general, that crazy german guy we all know the name of was wrong on a lot of counts, specifically the idea that things like hypnosis are any more real than demon posession states or the idea of a real subconcious or the idea that crack is a good medicinal aid.

His theories are funny to read about, though... :) (but yeah, very little accuracy)


So apparently psych is a pseudoscience... - Dark Jaguar - 24th June 2005

Now that I didn't know. I only got a brief description of a few things he said on the news.

But if he's a scientologist, that's "enough" for the most part. The fact is, people are going to listen to this guy because he's famous. That insane cult seems to be spreading just a little too much. They haven't become militant, a good move on their part as far as their continued survival goes, but yeesh... Has this guy ever actually tried to find any of these super powered people that insane religion says are out there proving it right?

And oh yes, I've mentioned it before but it's odd how they actually call it scientology, as though it's actually based on science. Did I say odd? I meant "specifically engineered to get a certain response".

Thanks to their lovely policy that says if you tell anyone higher tenets of the faith their head will explode (that's only a slight exxageration, they pretty much do say just that), basically the average person who (justifiably) doesn't look into that garbage, seems a lot of people see that whole cult as a legitimate harmless religion.

Oh well... All things considered, I'll just ignore the guy. It's a shame the crazies are starting to use a word that skeptics invented though!

asm, once again I had to skim past your post due to the lack of things like proper punctuation. I'm sure you have a lot of good points, but you need to convey them in a way that isn't painful to read.


So apparently psych is a pseudoscience... - A Black Falcon - 24th June 2005

Quote:And oh yes, I've mentioned it before but it's odd how they actually call it scientology, as though it's actually based on science. Did I say odd? I meant "specifically engineered to get a certain response".

I think the ... ah, what's their official name... 'Church of Christ, Scientist' or something like that? The Christian Science religion. So, SO odd... you know, the people who don't believe in modern medicine?

Yeah, I don't know how they go around with "science' in their religion name either...


So apparently psych is a pseudoscience... - N-Man - 25th June 2005

Scientologists have a bone to pick with psychiatry and psychology in general. This is in all likelihood because any psychologist worth his salt called/would call L. Ron a nutjob, which he was (and still is, in spirit). I suggest you take a look at www.xenu.net and observe the growth and spread of scientology as well as the threat it represents to free society. DJ, you love when quacks' delusions are exposed, you'll love that site.


So apparently psych is a pseudoscience... - A Black Falcon - 25th June 2005

I'd say "how can you argue against something as well proven to be successful as that" if I didn't know that humans don't exactly always need logic to operate...


So apparently psych is a pseudoscience... - Dark Lord Neo - 25th June 2005

Scientologists scare me


So apparently psych is a pseudoscience... - Sacred Jellybean - 25th June 2005

[Image: crazytomcruise.gif]

Later, when I have a little more time, I'll post my thoughts on psychology as a "pseudo-science". In the mean time, that gif is hilarious. :D


So apparently psych is a pseudoscience... - A Black Falcon - 25th June 2005

Awesome... :)


So apparently psych is a pseudoscience... - A Black Falcon - 25th June 2005

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/8343367/page/2/

(interview text where Cruise talks about this)

He's nuts...


So apparently psych is a pseudoscience... - Dark Lord Neo - 25th June 2005

The difference between psychologists and psychatrists is that psychatrists are medical docters who practice psychology and therefore can perscribe medication.

The main reason that scientology dislikes psycholog is not simply because psychologists think their founder was crazy, it is also that most of the money they bring into their "church" is a result of people paying for the church's form of psychological help


So apparently psych is a pseudoscience... - Dark Jaguar - 25th June 2005

N-Man, to be fair if reproducible peer reviewed scientific evidence was to prove that the scientologists could in fact use magic powers to fly, shoot lightning, and whatnot, I'd be the first to sign up for a lesson :D. I don't think that's going to be happening though, to put it mildly.


So apparently psych is a pseudoscience... - A Black Falcon - 25th June 2005

Quote:The difference between psychologists and psychatrists is that psychatrists are medical docters who practice psychology and therefore can perscribe medication.

Yeah, that's what I thought.

Quote:The main reason that scientology dislikes psycholog is not simply because psychologists think their founder was crazy, it is also that most of the money they bring into their "church" is a result of people paying for the church's form of psychological help

Right, because scientology will change your life and make you a better person... ... Erm


So apparently psych is a pseudoscience... - Dark Jaguar - 25th June 2005

The real danger here is the standard stuff, celebrities spouting nonsense and people believing it. However, normally it's people who are only famous because of their nonsense. This time there are people idolized for acting ability or whatever who are just now revealing their insane beliefs in a cult. There's some danger there. I mean, the danger is there anyway, but I think there's a bit more to it now....


So apparently psych is a pseudoscience... - Great Rumbler - 25th June 2005

I find that I care very little about what famous actors/actress have to say, particularly on subjects that have nothing to do with acting or movies.


So apparently psych is a pseudoscience... - Dark Jaguar - 25th June 2005

A very good philosophy, but too many people don't. It's one thing to say "well who cares what they think?" but that's exactly the complacent attitude that has resulted in the situation we are in today, with actual legal lawsuits because some people just don't like reality (sueing over scientific fact). It's what has caused government officials, who really should be trained in science as part of the requirements of office, to deny such FACTS as global warming.

So what I'm saying is that, believe it or not, an overwhelming mass of illogical people might actually have a negative effect on society.

There's also the fact that I bring this up because my mother did, asking "what's scientology?" She was under the impression I knew about it because the name of it has science in it. Well, I did know about it, but not because it has anything to do with science. At any rate I ended up giving her a large number of links, some to news reports about Tommy boy, some to official scientology web sites, most to sites explaining the reality of that crazy cult.

So anyway, not everyone has a DJ to help find info on this, so that means a large number of people, some of which may have an effect on us, could be listening to Tom and taking him seriously.


So apparently psych is a pseudoscience... - A Black Falcon - 25th June 2005

I think most people know Tom Cruise is nuts... after all, how many people really take scientology seriously? That really helps in working against him, I think. :)


So apparently psych is a pseudoscience... - Dark Jaguar - 25th June 2005

How many people even know what scientology is?


So apparently psych is a pseudoscience... - Smoke - 26th June 2005

Quote:In the late 1940s, pulp writer L. Ron Hubbard declared:[indent] "Writing for a penny a word is ridiculous. If a man really wants to make a million dollars, the best way would be to start his own religion" [/indent] Hubbard later created the Church of Scientology...
GAF explains Scientology:

FnordChan Wrote:http://www.xenu.net/archive/leaflet/Xenu.jpg

Short version: L. Ron Hubbard invented (read: freely made up) the science of Dianetics, in order to help folks unlock their full human potential...for a price. This sparked Scientology, a religion Hubbard discovered (read: freely made up) that allowed folks to discover their amazing superpowers...for a much higher price. Cue cult activities and brutally milking folks of their cash. You can learn the gorey details by reading through xenu.net, the Hubbard biography Barefaced Messiah (available to read for free online), or the expose A Piece of Blue Sky: Scientology, Dianetcs, and L. Ron Hubbard exposed by Jon Atack. It all makes for fascinating, if somewhat disturbing, reading.

Basically, you want to stay the hell away from Scientology.

FnordChan, OT3
Justin Bailey Wrote:They believe an alien named xenu caused a nuclear explosion several billion years ago to solve the overpopulation problem in the universe. The problem was, people souls (referred to as "body thetans") still were able to be blown around by the nuclear winds. Xenu then captured the thetans and placed them into cinemas where they watched movies on how they are supposed to live life and the concept of God, Satan, and Christ. After the movies were over the thetans flew around and inhabited people and still do to this day. The only way to become a free spirit is to rid yourself of these evil body thetans. This is Scientology's goal.

No, I did not make any of that up.

[Image: so.jpg]
Quote: In 1968 Ethics was introduced in Sea Org. Crew were put into a chain-locker as punishment. A chain-locker is "a dark hole where the anchor chains are stored; cold, wet and rats," to quote one ex-Sea Org officer. A crew member that was put on ethics could spend up to two weeks in the tiny hole. Former Scientologists who served as crew together with Hubbard in the early years remember a five years old deaf and mute child being locked up in the chain-locker. Hubbard said she was not to leave the chain locker until she completed the formula by writing her name. Another witness claims that a three-year-old was once put in the locker.

What is Scientology?
Quote:The Church of Scientology is a vicious and dangerous cult that masquerades as a religion. Its purpose is to make money. It practices a variety of mind-control techniques on people lured into its midst to gain control over their money and their lives. Its aim is to take from them every penny that they have and can ever borrow and to also enslave them to further its wicked ends.

It was started in the 1950s by a science fiction writer named L. Ron Hubbard in fulfilment to his declared aim to start a religion to make money. It is an offshoot to a method of psychotherapy he concocted from various sources which he named "Dianetics". Dianetics is a form of regression therapy. It was then further expanded to appear more like a religion in order to enjoy tax benefits. He called it "Scientology". Scientology is a confused concoction of crackpot, dangerously applied psychotherapy, oversimplified, idiotic and inapplicable rules and ideas and science-fiction drivel that is presented to its members (at the "advanced" levels) as profound spiritual truth.
Quote:On the surface the Church of Scientology seems reasonable. The insane content of it is only revealed to a person when the early stuff has done its work and made them more susceptible. After a short while a person "believes" that Scientology is doing them good. They are then persuaded to help their new-found group further by donating money and/or working for the organisation for almost no money. Many people do exactly that.

"Ethics" is used to good effect to trap a person. A person’s natural tendency to do good is worked upon. Yes - they want to be more ethical, but what is ethical? This is where a clever trick is pulled! "Ethics" is redefined by Scientology in such a way that to be ethical is to be a better Scientologist and obey the "church". Young people, not yet made cynical through the machinations of life and politics, are very keen to contribute to the world and to be ethical. So the "ethics" trick works easily into persuading them to join the "church". Many of them join an elite group called the "Sea Org" where they become brainwashed slaves. There they work a hundred hour week for almost no pay. There they are subject to every cruel whim of their masters. It is a living hell that they endure because of the conditioning they have received and this now perverted sense of ethics that they have accepted. The "Sea Org" is the ultimate in brainwashed slavery. They are expected to work harder and harder to achieve ever higher targets of production. If they fail to meet their targets there are various penalties. One of them is to be put onto a diet of beans and rice and to miss sleep. Another is to be sentenced to a period on the RPF (Rehabilitation Project Force). This is the equivalent to "hard labour". Such is the extent of their brainwashing that they actually write "success stories" when they complete their sentences.
Xenu.net has a Time article from 1991 titled
The Thriving Cult of Greed and Power

Excerpts:
Quote: According to the Cult Awareness Network, whose 23 chapters monitor more than 200 "mind control" cults, no group prompts more telephone pleas for help than does Scientology. Says Cynthia Kisser, the network's Chicago-based executive director: "Scientology is quite likely the most ruthless, the most classically terroristic, the most litigious and the most lucrative cult the country has ever seen. No cult extracts more money from its members." Agrees Vicki Aznaran, who was one of Scientology's six key leaders until she bolted from the church in 1987: "This is a criminal organization, day in and day out. It makes Jim and Tammy [Bakker] look like kindergarten."
Quote:The founder of this enterprise was part storyteller, part flimflam man. Born In Nebraska in 1911, Hubbard served in the Navy during World War II and soon afterward complained to the Veterans Administration about his "suicidal inclinations" and his "seriously affected" mind. Nevertheless, Hubbard was a moderately successful writer of pulp science fiction. Years later, church brochures described him falsely as an "extensively decorated" World War II hero who was crippled and blinded in action, twice pronounced dead and miraculously cured through Scientology. Hubbard's "doctorate" from "Sequoia University" was a fake mall-order degree. In a I984 case in which the church sued a Hubbard biographical researcher, a California judge concluded that its founder was "a pathological liar." Hubbard wrote one of Scientology's sacred texts, Dianetics: The Modern Science of Mental Health, in 1950. In it he introduced a crude psychotherapeutic technique he called "auditing." He also created a simplified lie detector (called an "E-meter") that was designed to measure electrical changes In the skin while subjects discussed intimate details of their past. Hubbard argued that unhappiness sprang from mental aberrations (or "engrams") caused by early traumas. Counseling sessions with the E-meter, he claimed, could knock out the engrams, cure blindness and even improve a person's intelligence and appearance.

Hubbard kept adding steps, each more costly, for his followers to climb. In the 1960s the guru decreed that humans are made of clusters of spirits (or "thetans") who were banished to earth some 75 million years ago by a cruel galactic ruler named Xenu. Naturally, those thetans had to be audited.

An Internal Revenue Service ruling in 1967 stripped Scientology's mother church of its tax-exempt status. A federal court ruled in 1971 that Hubbard's medical claims were bogus and that E-meter auditing could no longer be called a scientific treatment. Hubbard responded by going fully religious, seeking First Amendment protection for Scien- tology's strange rites. His counselors started sporting clerical collars. Chapels were built, franchises became "missions," fees became "fixed donations," and Hubbard's comic-book cosmology became "sacred scriptures.'

During the early 1970s, the IRS conducted its own auditing sessions and proved that Hubbard was skimming millions of dollars from the church, laundering the money through dummy corporations in Panama and stashing it in Swiss bank accounts. Moreover, church members stole IRS documents, filed false tax returns and harassed the agency's employees. By late 1985, with high-level defectors accusing Hubbard of having stolen as much as S200 million from the church, the IRS was seeking an indictment of Hubbard for tax fraud. Scientology members "worked day and night" shredding documents the IRS sought, according to defector Aznaran, who took part in the scheme. Hubbard, who had been in hiding for five years, died before the criminal case could be prosecuted.

Today the church invents costly new services with all the zeal of its founder. Scientology doctrine warns that even adherents who are "cleared" of engrams face grave spiritual dangers unless they are pushed to higher and more expensive levels. According to the church's latest price list, recruits -- "raw meat," as Hubbard called them -- take auditing sessions that cost as much as $1,000 an hour, or $12,500 for a 12 1/2-hour "intensive."

Psychiatrists say these sessions can produce a drugged-like, mind-controlled euphoria that keeps customers coming back for more. To pay their fees, newcomers can earn commissions by recruiting new mem- bers, become auditors themselves (Miscavige did so at age 12), or join the church staff and receive free counseling in exchange for what their written contracts describe as a "billion years" of labor. "Make sure that lots of bodies move through the shop," implored Hubbard in one of his bulletins to officials. "Make money. Make more money. Make others produce so as to make money . . . However you get them in or why, just do it."
They're in the schools:
Quote:One front, the Way to Happiness Foundation, has distributed to children in thousands of the nation's public schools more than 3.5 million copies of a booklet Hubbard wrote on morality. The church calls the scheme "the largest dissemination project in Scientology history." Applied Scholastics is the name of still another front, which is attempting to install a Hubbard tutorial program in public schools, primarily those populated by minorities. The group also plans a 1,000 acre campus, where it will train educators to teach various Hubbard methods. The disingenuously named Citizens Commission on Human Rights is a Scientology group at war with psychiatry, its primary competitor. The commission typically issues reports aimed at discrediting particular psychiatrists and the field in general. The CCHR is also behind an all-out war against Eli Lilly, the maker of Prozac, the nation's top-selling antidepression drug. Despite scant evidence, the group's members -- who call themselves "psychbusters" -- claim that Prozac drives people to murder or suicide. Through mass mailings, appearances on talk shows and heavy lobbying, CCHR has hurt drug sales and helped spark dozens of lawsuits against Lilly.
You don't want to cross them:
Quote: Scientology devotes vast resources to squelching its critics. Since 1986 Hubbard and his church have been the subject of four unfriendly books, all released by small yet courageous publishers. In each case, the writers have been badgered and heavily sued. One of Hubbard's policies was that all perceived enemies are "fair game" and subject to being "tricked, sued or lied to or destroyed." Those who criticize the church journalists, doctors, lawyers and even judges often find themselves engulfed in litigation, stalked by private eyes, framed for fictional crimes, beaten up or threatened with death. Psychologist Margaret Singer, 69, an outspoken Scientology critic and professor at the University of California, Berkeley, now travels regularly under an assumed name to avoid harassment.
Quote: The IRS and FBI have been debriefing Scientology defectors for the past three years, in part to gain evidence for a major racketeering case that appears to have stalled last summer. Federal agents complain that the Justice Department is unwilling to spend the money needed to endure a drawn-out war with Scientology or to fend off the cult's notorious jihads against individual agents. "In my opinion the church has one of the most effective intelligence operations in the U.S., rivaling even that of the FBI," says Ted Gunderson, a former head of the FBI's Los Angeles office.
You REALLY don't want to cross them:
Quote: Strange things seem to happen to people who write about Scientology. Journalist Paulette Cooper wrote a critical book on the cult in 1971. This led to a Scientology plot (called Operation Freak-Out) whose goal, according to church documents, was "to get P.C. incarcerated in a mental institution or jail." It almost worked: by impersonating Cooper, Scientologists got her indicted in 1973 for threatening to bomb the church. Cooper, who also endured 19 lawsuits by the church, was finally exonerated in 1977 after FBI raids on the church offices in Los Angeles and Washington uncovered documents from the bomb scheme. No Scientologists were ever tried in the matter.
The "Church" of Scientology isn't so much a church as it is a criminal organization that could give the mafia a run for it's money.

Here are the different levels of Scientology and what they'll cost you

By pushing Scientology Tom Cruise is potentially harming people. I'm sure they treat him fine but the rank and file Scientologist can expect to be bilked out of their money at best, turned into a slave and killed at worst.

List of those killed by Scientology


So apparently psych is a pseudoscience... - Great Rumbler - 26th June 2005

"The only thing I know about Scientology is they take you out to the desert to a big ship and make sign a huge check and if you don't they kill you."


So apparently psych is a pseudoscience... - Dark Jaguar - 26th June 2005

Scientology is pretty frickin' scary...

"I started thinking, and I got carried away"

Here's a little page with someone giving a testamony regarding their time spent in the cult.

http://www.skepticreport.com/mystics/dangarvin.htm


So apparently psych is a pseudoscience... - A Black Falcon - 26th June 2005

And I bet L. Ron Hubbard never believed a word of his "religion"... :) Well, maybe he believed in dianetics, but the garbage about aliens and all that? He was a scifi author... it's not hard for me to guess where he got it from. :D


So apparently psych is a pseudoscience... - Undertow - 27th June 2005

I'm going to form a religion called Bullshitology where I don't bother to make stuff up, and my followers just cut to the chase and just send me money. I think it saves everyone the time it takes to read the small print when they sell their souls, and spares them the psuedointellectual ranting of books like Dianetics.


So apparently psych is a pseudoscience... - alien space marine - 27th June 2005

Science Fictology.

Infidel guy may still have that free radio show with that former top scientology guy, Who revealed that the cults claims of "millions of followers" is total bull shit since he was part of their statistics departments counting all the heads ,They are pretty well 100,000 steady, The deception is that they count those who study with them breifly or take their charity work are counted as members which they are usually not.

It would be like saying all of indonesia is now american for acception aid money.


So apparently psych is a pseudoscience... - Dark Jaguar - 10th July 2005

Update: I found a site with a transcript of that interview. It has funny pictures too, but never mind that.

http://youcantmakeitup.blogspot.com/2005/06/cruise-uncontrollable.html

Anyone notice a certain... familiar tone?


So apparently psych is a pseudoscience... - Great Rumbler - 10th July 2005

What a looney.


So apparently psych is a pseudoscience... - Dark Jaguar - 10th July 2005

Isn't that like a Canadian 2 dollar coin?

Oh and, for the record, that guy doing the interview wasn't entirely right in saying "well they said it worked for them" meant it was good medicine. Now, that medicine does work, but someone saying "hey I feel better" after taking medicine isn't really proper evidence.

Now let me explain that, because I know that at first glance it seems stupid to say something like that. I say it's not scientific proof because there are two things you don't know with just one thing like that. One, how long after they took the medication did it take for them to get better? I mean, if you will credit the medication or treatment for someone getting better without taking into account the time frame, well, consider the possibility that they just got better on their own. Now, let's say years pass when someone is on homeopathic remedy alpha, and one month their cancer goes into remission. How can you say with any certainty that it was the medicine? Sure, they were taking it, and eventually at some point they got better in that one case, but are the two connected? Humans have a pretty good knack for finding connections, whether they exist or not, because it's a pretty good "rough" strategy for finding things out, but it's not precise, and in science, you need precise. In medicine, there's too many variables for it to be counted on at all besides. So, you need to test over and over again across a LOT of cases confirming a lot of things, and THEN you have some evidence. Always collect more, since there's the chance it's something else you just weren't able to think of in the previous experiments though. The second thing is whether they even had the condition to begin with. Lots of testing needs to be done just to find a reliable method of diagnosing a symptom, so misdiagnosis happens sometimes. Placebo effect is a very simple thing, it's when you just don't notice the symptoms you previously paid a lot of attention to (in some cases placebo just won't cut it, like when you get shot, mind isn't really over matter so much as not really noticing the matter as much, and if it's just a mild headache that does the trick a lot of the time).

But, aside from taking a little issue to that, the reporter really handled that pretty well. Not sure I know of too many people who could be confronted with THAT and not just snap or walk off. Well, not that he was in a position where he could DO that :D.


So apparently psych is a pseudoscience... - Great Rumbler - 10th July 2005

Quote:Isn't that like a Canadian 2 dollar coin

It's also British for someone who's crazy.


So apparently psych is a pseudoscience... - Dark Jaguar - 10th July 2005

I know... Well, I didn't realize it was British slang too but it's certainly American slang.


So apparently psych is a pseudoscience... - Great Rumbler - 10th July 2005

Where do you think America got it from?


So apparently psych is a pseudoscience... - Dark Jaguar - 10th July 2005

The same place it got the REST of the English language? What's your point?


So apparently psych is a pseudoscience... - Great Rumbler - 11th July 2005

There ya go!


So apparently psych is a pseudoscience... - Dark Jaguar - 11th July 2005

There I go WHAT? You called it British slang, which would suggest it's ONLY from there. I said it's used in America all the time too, so it's not exclusive. Where we got it from is irrelevent.


So apparently psych is a pseudoscience... - Great Rumbler - 11th July 2005

Yes, you do hear it here sometimes, but not usually as noun.


So apparently psych is a pseudoscience... - Smoke - 11th July 2005

Let's see if we can draw this out into 5 pages of fighting at the end of which nobody will remember what they're arguing about anymore. :D


So apparently psych is a pseudoscience... - Great Rumbler - 11th July 2005

It must be done!


So apparently psych is a pseudoscience... - Dark Jaguar - 11th July 2005

No let's not.


So apparently psych is a pseudoscience... - Darunia - 12th July 2005

Can anyone explain to me just what Scientology is in a paragraph or two? I looked it up, but it really didn't define it well.... not even the official scientology website could do it.


So apparently psych is a pseudoscience... - Great Rumbler - 12th July 2005

From Wikipedia:

Quote:Scientology is a system of beliefs, teachings and rituals, originally established as a secular philosophy in 1952 by science-fiction author L. Ron Hubbard, then recharacterized by him in 1953 as an "applied religious philosophy."

Scientology is officially represented by the controversial Church of Scientology. The Church presents itself as a non-profit religious organization dedicated to encouraging development of the human spirit. Providing counseling and rehabilitation programs, the Church offers itself as an alternative to psychiatry, which Scientologists believe to be a barbaric and corrupt profession. [1] Church spokespeople attest that Hubbard's teaching (called "technology" or "tech") has freed them from drug and alcohol addictions, depression, learning disabilities, mental disorders and other problems. Scientology, however, has been the object of many allegations that sharply contradict the Church's self-description. Critics—including officials of several governments—have characterized the Church of Scientology as an unscrupulous commercial organization; it has often been described as a cult that harasses its critics and exploits its members. Many of the Church's most controversial actions are, critics argue, a direct reflection of Hubbard's Scientology teachings.

Despite the similarity of names, there is no historical, doctrinal, or organizational connection between Scientology and the Church of Christ, Scientist, better known as "Christian Science".

And if that's too much for you it's a quasi-religious cult created by L. Ron Hubbard to make a lot of money by using it as a tax shelter and charging people a lot of money to be a member.


So apparently psych is a pseudoscience... - Dark Jaguar - 12th July 2005

Wikipedia is a great resource but the thing to keep in mind is all the headings are done by submission. It would seem they have high standards (their Halo 2 heading doesn't consist of "it sucks"), but in the end they are submission based, so as with any info source, be skeptical.

In other words, a rather high light they cast on it. No details on what this "tech" involves (gotta love those nice sounding words they use to sound legit), and it's all basically put as though the accusations are all false because it's from "outsiders". No mention that a number of the "outsiders" providing the info are people that have actually been in the cult for a number of years and eventually "woke up".

But, it's okay. As good a source as Wiki can be, it's not perfect, and so long as that's understood there's no problems.

Though, it does pay to submit addendums or corrections when needed there.


So apparently psych is a pseudoscience... - A Black Falcon - 12th July 2005

Quote:Despite the similarity of names, there is no historical, doctrinal, or organizational connection between Scientology and the Church of Christ, Scientist, better known as "Christian Science".

They're similarly nutty, though... :)


So apparently psych is a pseudoscience... - Great Rumbler - 12th July 2005

I find Wikipedia to be fairly accurate and honest for the most part, although some of the more controversial issue, figures, and groups sometimes have problems. They have a pretty good system to keep things in balance though.


So apparently psych is a pseudoscience... - Dark Jaguar - 12th July 2005

In some of the "deeper" parts of the south, Christian schools actually teach geocentrism...

Now, let's be fair here. Ptolomy (that's how it's spelled right? I still don't know how it's pronounced as I've only read the name...) did come up with a model that accuratly explained what he managed to see at the time when he came up with that old geocentric model. It was hardly "wrong" based on the data he had available at the time. The thing about science is it always updates itself as new data comes around. Today's currently held theories may become tomorrow's outdated ones, but that hardly makes them stupid. Ptolomy did create a stepping stone that later fellows like Copernicus would build on using better observations. Keep in mind sometimes building requires tearing down some things :D.

So, geocentrism does have it's place in that it was a good mathematical model to explain the phenomenons they had observed at the time. However, later stuff showed that the only way to hold on to geocentrism was via extremely convoluted mathematical models. Later still, we would actually be able to go there, and as such the only way to hold onto it with that new perspective and the data from that is to assume very extreme and farfetched things, such as odd space/time warps occuring in space that don't occur on Earth that make light change paths. In the end though, you have to go with the most plausible model that works. It's too messy to go the convoluted route. Heck, someone long ago was of the mind that the universe was actually inside out, with the Earth curved the OTHER way, us INSIDE the sphere, with the sun at the center of the Earth and so on. Various mathematical models of all shapes and sizes were thought up and worked out to explain all manner of observations that might otherwise suggest a simpler model where outer space was on the outside and so were we, and they WORKED (to a degree, with such complicated models a lot can go wrong, and it did), but ya gotta go with the more plausible. After his death, lots of observations were made that really put the nails in that revised coffin, what with no one adding on more mathematical models to make all those observations work in an inside out universe. It's just best to go with the simpler explanation as the prefered one. THAT'S why occam's razor is an important guideline to keep in the back of your mind. Just remember, an explanation that could actually work is that our universe is a digital world maintained by computers in a "real" world above experimenting with virtual reality (where humans AREN'T some perpetual motion machine like in the Matrix), but is that all that plausible? Isn't that a bit much when our world being at the top is just a smarter way to go until we get evidence otherwise?

And there's the problem with those messed up schools trying to prove that geocentrism (or various other stuff) is better than "conventional" science. Sure you can struggle all over and actually make it work sometimes, but isn't it better to go with what seems a lot more likely, plausible, or simpler? If the universe seems to be telling us that (and this goes beyond heliocentrism, itself eventually being proven wrong, since as it turns out the sun isn't the center of the universe either) no frame of reference is absolute, and calculations done from any will yield correct answers, then why not just accept it until evidence shows something else to be a more accurate representation of reality?

So yeah, those schools are nuts...


So apparently psych is a pseudoscience... - nickdaddyg - 26th July 2005

Dark Jaguar Wrote:or the idea of a real subconcious or the idea that crack is a good medicinal aid.

Crack would be awesome, yo! Cool


So apparently psych is a pseudoscience... - Great Rumbler - 26th July 2005

No.