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+--- Thread: my two cents: the reviews forum sucks ass (Moved to Ramble) (/showthread.php?tid=2945)
my two cents: the reviews forum sucks ass (Moved to Ramble) - OB1 - 23rd May 2005
or does it?
my two cents: the reviews forum sucks ass (Moved to Ramble) - Great Rumbler - 23rd May 2005
Watch our for Ryan, OB1, he's been heavily involved in the review forum too, I think. :)
my two cents: the reviews forum sucks ass (Moved to Ramble) - OB1 - 23rd May 2005
Well then
my two cents: the reviews forum sucks ass (Moved to Ramble) - The Former DMiller - 23rd May 2005
2 are definitely much better than 1. :)
my two cents: the reviews forum sucks ass (Moved to Ramble) - OB1 - 23rd May 2005
wut
my two cents: the reviews forum sucks ass (Moved to Ramble) - Great Rumbler - 23rd May 2005
Oh Lord...
my two cents: the reviews forum sucks ass (Moved to Ramble) - OB1 - 23rd May 2005
Wha
my two cents: the reviews forum sucks ass (Moved to Ramble) - Great Rumbler - 23rd May 2005
:S
my two cents: the reviews forum sucks ass (Moved to Ramble) - A Black Falcon - 23rd May 2005
I think it's great that they're making an effort to keep this forum from decending to the level the others are at... there is nothing wrong with saying that a forum that exists for reviews should be for reviews. And there's nothing wrong with setting standards that two-line "posts" don't meet.
Really, OB1... you can be stupid in the other fifteen forums. Can't there be at least ONE where we have some standards?
Anyway, you can reply to reviews as long as it's about the game being reviewed... they just need to actually be posts, no two-word jokes.
my two cents: the reviews forum sucks ass (Moved to Ramble) - Great Rumbler - 23rd May 2005
Standards are for fools!
...
But, yes, we probably should have some basic rules in place if we want the review forum to be about reviews only.
my two cents: the reviews forum sucks ass (Moved to Ramble) - A Black Falcon - 23rd May 2005
What, you aren't complaining too? You and OB1 together are responsible for probably 90% of the posts that would, if they were put here, get deleted...
my two cents: the reviews forum sucks ass (Moved to Ramble) - Great Rumbler - 23rd May 2005
Why would I complain?
my two cents: the reviews forum sucks ass (Moved to Ramble) - A Black Falcon - 23rd May 2005
Because of how you and OB1 like to do those long sequences of nonsense posts...
my two cents: the reviews forum sucks ass (Moved to Ramble) - OB1 - 23rd May 2005
...
my two cents: the reviews forum sucks ass (Moved to Ramble) - Great Rumbler - 23rd May 2005
Quote:Because of how you and OB1 like to do those long sequences of nonsense posts...
True, but why would I care if that's not allowed in the review forum?
my two cents: the reviews forum sucks ass (Moved to Ramble) - OB1 - 23rd May 2005
yeah
my two cents: the reviews forum sucks ass (Moved to Ramble) - A Black Falcon - 23rd May 2005
Don't make this another "everyone supports me" thing, OB1. I don't think they do, on this issue... it's a good idea. This forum section is for REVIEWS. One-line posts that say "haha this game is dumb" or whatever are not reviews, and shouldn't be tolerated... this forum has an actual purpose! Let anything in and how would it be any different from the other forums here?
No, rules are definitely needed.
Quote:True, but why would I care if that's not allowed in the review forum?
It's nice to see that you don't. :)
my two cents: the reviews forum sucks ass (Moved to Ramble) - OB1 - 23rd May 2005
I like to make reviews short and to the point!
my two cents: the reviews forum sucks ass (Moved to Ramble) - A Black Falcon - 23rd May 2005
How useful they are isn't the point... the point is that if we don't make the review forum be for reviews, and just reviews, why bother to have a reviews forum at all?
my two cents: the reviews forum sucks ass (Moved to Ramble) - OB1 - 23rd May 2005
Yes
my two cents: the reviews forum sucks ass (Moved to Ramble) - Weltall - 23rd May 2005
Everything EdenMaster's done with the forum has been with my blessings. Including those edit jobs.
So why do I want to actually establish a little quality control? Simple. I didn't open Reviews again so that we have just another extension of Ramble City. There are plenty of other forums in which to have all the fun you want. If you don't want to participate with this, nobody's forcing you to. But if you do want to play the game, be a pal and follow the guidelines.
We decided to allow replies to reviews, so that rule is no longer in effect. But the guidelines to actually writing them stands. Am I setting out to actually accomplish something, or to look important? Of course not. It's just something I'd like to see, that's all. I think I have the right to want it. I enforce practically nothing everywhere else, but this is something I'd like to see turn out somewhat nice and indexed. ANd honestly, a 500 character limit is hardly comparable to slaughtering Jews or anything like that. This post here is likely more than 500 characters.
So again, if you don't like it, or don't find it useful, then just leave it be, please.
my two cents: the reviews forum sucks ass (Moved to Ramble) - OB1 - 23rd May 2005
Quote:ANd honestly, a 500 character limit is hardly comparable to slaughtering Jews or anything like that
or is it?
my two cents: the reviews forum sucks ass (Moved to Ramble) - Weltall - 23rd May 2005
Because I personally love to read reviews, and those that are too short are so unsatisfying.
my two cents: the reviews forum sucks ass (Moved to Ramble) - OB1 - 23rd May 2005
well okay then
my two cents: the reviews forum sucks ass (Moved to Ramble) - Weltall - 23rd May 2005
My SMS review fit the standards I set. It's not a matter of whether I agree with the content of your reviews or not.
my two cents: the reviews forum sucks ass (Moved to Ramble) - OB1 - 23rd May 2005
well then
my two cents: the reviews forum sucks ass (Moved to Ramble) - Weltall - 23rd May 2005
*sigh*
Then don't post any reviews, okay? Jesus.
my two cents: the reviews forum sucks ass (Moved to Ramble) - OB1 - 23rd May 2005
oy
my two cents: the reviews forum sucks ass (Moved to Ramble) - Weltall - 23rd May 2005
I really don't get why you're being so stubborn about it, when you obviously don't care about the reviews anyway. I'm setting rules because this is my pet project, and I want it to appear a certain way.
I mean, honestly. Are you arguing with me just for the sake of argument? You can be so frustrating sometimes.
my two cents: the reviews forum sucks ass (Moved to Ramble) - OB1 - 23rd May 2005
'tis the way of the land
my two cents: the reviews forum sucks ass (Moved to Ramble) - Weltall - 23rd May 2005
Not 500 word. 500 CHARACTER. As in 500 icons representing alphanumeric symbols and punctuation.
my two cents: the reviews forum sucks ass (Moved to Ramble) - OB1 - 23rd May 2005
characters!
my two cents: the reviews forum sucks ass (Moved to Ramble) - Weltall - 23rd May 2005
Spare me. I let people get away with murder at TC. I don't think it's unreasonable to set an extraordinarily generous minimum limit for this one single thing.
my two cents: the reviews forum sucks ass (Moved to Ramble) - OB1 - 23rd May 2005
murder!!
my two cents: the reviews forum sucks ass (Moved to Ramble) - Weltall - 23rd May 2005
And I always tolerate even the worst of it without complaint. But I don't want it here. End of story.
my two cents: the reviews forum sucks ass (Moved to Ramble) - OB1 - 23rd May 2005
ok
my two cents: the reviews forum sucks ass (Moved to Ramble) - Weltall - 23rd May 2005
I didn't start this thread, did I?
my two cents: the reviews forum sucks ass (Moved to Ramble) - OB1 - 23rd May 2005
this is getting weird
my two cents: the reviews forum sucks ass (Moved to Ramble) - Weltall - 23rd May 2005
Okay, then let me make this nice and clear for you.
I want the limits. I think the limits are very generous, 500 characters is 100 five-letter words. You may not have ever realized it, since you never did a review until now, but these limits have always been in place. It's not a new concept. And no one has ever voiced a single complaint about it before. The simple fact is, the limits will stay because I want them to. I'm sorry you disagree, but they will stay regardless. I think you're raising a gigantic fuss for no good reason at all, other than to further ventilate your insatiable appetite for conflict with whoever happens to be nearby. I've heard what you have to say, but I disagree and I will not change it. I don't want six hundred reviews that total 2000 words.
Oh, by the way, 'getting away with murder' is a colloquialism. I know you know this, and you're just using it as another point to argue, but I'm telling you anyway.
my two cents: the reviews forum sucks ass (Moved to Ramble) - OB1 - 23rd May 2005
and long-winded
my two cents: the reviews forum sucks ass (Moved to Ramble) - Weltall - 23rd May 2005
What in the bleeding hell? I actually impose rules on ONE SECTION OF THE FORUM, and now suddenly I'm both ice-9 and Hitler. I'm absolutely amazed. If I were ice-9, I would have banned you years ago and deleted about 90% of the posts you make, because in case you don't remember, his rules were astronomically more stringent than any I've ever come up with. No one else thinks I'm ruining Tendo City by imposing a restriction in one of its three dozen forums, and certainly no one else has compared me to ice for doing it. Now who's being a drama queen, hmm?
The rest of Tendo City is and has always been without rules. I have never moderated it and I have no intention of starting now. This part of it, however, has always had rules. And you can argue with me all you want, that's not going to change. So stop complaining about it. I'm not going to bend.
Again, if you don't like it, tough. No one's making you post a review, and if you really want to bad enough, you can follow the rules, just like every other person here who has ever posted a review.
Now please stop acting so childish.
my two cents: the reviews forum sucks ass (Moved to Ramble) - OB1 - 23rd May 2005
I wonder how long it will go on for...
my two cents: the reviews forum sucks ass (Moved to Ramble) - Weltall - 23rd May 2005
I gave a perfectly good explanation for them. And so far, to a person, everyone else agrees with them. It's only you that has an issue with this. With ONE single rule.
I think you're doing this just because no one else is around to argue with right now. You're taking one little thing and completely blowing it out of proportion. I see you do it all the time with other people. Until now, I've never been on the recieving end of it. I have to say I don't like it at all. I don't remember you always being so terribly abrasive and argumentative about every single stupid thing you can think of. I wish you were like you were when I originally gave you the admin job. I think the power's gone to your head, personally.
my two cents: the reviews forum sucks ass (Moved to Ramble) - Dark Jaguar - 23rd May 2005
OB1, I must agree fully with Weltall on this.
He has made his intentions clear, not only in this thread but in the reviews forum itself in the rules thread.
Basically what he's saying is he just wants a review forum, and for it to really look the way he wants, no matter how important it may be or the limited readers, he basically just wants a clear and concise review to be given. I had some problems with one of the rules, yes, but it was just a minor complaint over something, and I would have just let it go if Weltall pressed the issue. Not important at all to me it is, yeess.
A 500 word limit is basically just him saying "try to make it long and give some detail on what formed your opinion and some details on the game itself". I'm sure he'd cut some slack if it managed to be just 450 words. He's just making sure you think things out so it's not full of something saying "Halo SUCKS! Haha!" like you might find at GameFAQs. It is censorship, but it's very reasonable and I for one agree with it. There would be no point to the forum otherwise.
You may bring up that you don't believe there is any good reason for the forum. Perhaps not, except that Weltall wants one. I for one would like an easy to find library of the general opinions of the various peoples of Tendo City on all manner of games. It's a handy thing that lets me avoid just asking them directly. To me the reviews are just a way to find out more about the people here, namely what they think of specific games and why they think it.
Sure it's no big deal, but he's only asking a very small thing here. This isn't some slippery slope here. We'll know when things get "out of hand", trust me. As he said, this forum didn't even exist beforehand. He's not changing anything that's already here. He's creating a new place and I think applying some rules to it is just fine.
You accuse Weltall of making a big deal out of nothing. However, it is clear that it is you that is blowing things out of proportion. You accuse him of letting his "power" get to his head. I believe that this might more accuratly describe you.
Finally, you really do Weltall a great disservice. First off, to say Weltall is "refusing" any outside help is untrue to say the least. Not only is he VERY willing to accept donations, he has actually requested them before. He has only stated that he doesn't want to really ask for them, not that he won't accept them if offered. To bring that up as some argument about his worth is odd, as though you are trying to suggest that Weltall's worth here is nill and we could do better without him. I'm sorry, but Weltall has done a fine job and I don't think it's very much for him to ask us to obey a few rules here and there. He even explained it fully. Truthfully, he doesn't even owe us an explanation. It's merely good manners to do so. In fact, you agree with that. You yourself have stated to me on a previous incident when you altered some threads that you didn't owe me an explanation at all.
Last, I must say that ice-9, at least when I was there, was never really THAT strict. I kept going to TC not because I felt I could do whatever I want (though I must admit that is a nice perk in the new version) but because of the people. The people more than anything else make the place. If the rules killed it, I wouldn't have kept coming back to TC so often. Also, they didn't have anything to do with me leaving for half a year.
At any rate, I think you really need to take some time to sit down and really think about the situation here OB1. I believe once you have calmed down you will see that this is not a big deal at all. And, don't lie to us. Clearly you are having some level of emotion over this. It may be pride or something other than anger, but emotion is clouding your rational thought at the moment, and it's too clear for you to deny it. Please, calm down, and think.
Secondly, I AM aware that I said "lastly" or something similar like 3 times up there.... Sorry, I trail off...
my two cents: the reviews forum sucks ass (Moved to Ramble) - EdenMaster - 23rd May 2005
OB1, I'm sorry you're not happy with the way I've run the forums but don't accuse me of abusing my power. As Ryan said, all the most important decisions, the rules, editing, deleting, all were decided by both of us. There have been no unilateral decisions made with this forum, in a way, it's a project that Ryan and I are sharing responsibility for seeing to fruition.
That being said, I think it's really time to step down and just admit you're taking this too far. Ryan and I want a seperate place for the reviews to be, and for there to be reviews only there. Why do I want it, because I love writing the reviews and hope the sway somebody's opinion. Why does Ryan want it? It doesn't matter, because HE PAYS THE BILL. Without him, there is no tcforums.com. Frankly, we owe him a debt of gratitude for all he does for us, and tiny rules in a small section of the forum is not going to kill you. There are no rules ANYWHERE else in the forum, you can do and say whatever you please, but in this small area of the forums, we simply want some order. If you're not one to be part of that, then just don't post there. That's all.
Now come, stop this foolishness and let's get back to the normal insanity :)
my two cents: the reviews forum sucks ass (Moved to Ramble) - A Black Falcon - 23rd May 2005
Quote:What in the bleeding hell? I actually impose rules on ONE SECTION OF THE FORUM, and now suddenly I'm both ice-9 and Hitler. I'm absolutely amazed. If I were ice-9, I would have banned you years ago and deleted about 90% of the posts you make, because in case you don't remember, his rules were astronomically more stringent than any I've ever come up with. No one else thinks I'm ruining Tendo City by imposing a restriction in one of its three dozen forums, and certainly no one else has compared me to ice for doing it. Now who's being a drama queen, hmm?
The rest of Tendo City is and has always been without rules. I have never moderated it and I have no intention of starting now. This part of it, however, has always had rules. And you can argue with me all you want, that's not going to change. So stop complaining about it. I'm not going to bend.
Again, if you don't like it, tough. No one's making you post a review, and if you really want to bad enough, you can follow the rules, just like every other person here who has ever posted a review.
Now please stop acting so childish.
Just remember, it's only one member complaining (insert standard valid list of complaints about OB1 here). Everyone else thinks the rules are a good idea.
OB1: Seriously, we have to tolerate all those garbage posts you love to make in all the other forums... it's nice that they aren't allowed somewhere. I mean, sure, I know you do it to amuse yourself... but it gets so annoying at times... and your stuff in this forum is a textbook case of that, OB1. I'm pretty sure that you're the only one who thinks its funny, or appropriate.
Oh yeah, I actually would support even more standards... you know, such as a standard review system (yes "it's hard to score games", but every gaming site gives scores. And 95% of them have standardized systems... I think it's better. Try to come to an agreement on some system everyone can accept and use it...
Some sites with user-submitted reviews
http://www.gamefaqs.com -- too simple -- text and a 1-10 score, no decimals.
http://www.dmgice.com - nice, standardized format, broken into categories... when i said 'some review system' i was thinking of some kind of template like they have. Maybe not that complex, but something along those lines. http://www.dmgice.com/reviews/info/ (the submission templates)
my two cents: the reviews forum sucks ass (Moved to Ramble) - EdenMaster - 23rd May 2005
We're trying to set our own standards, that's why we've placed the rules. We're not going to start censoring the whole forum, just one little corner of the forum that can avoid the nonsense that is so prevalent and tolerated would be good.
We have also bent on the scorig thing. Scoring, while preferred, is no longer mandatory. If you can't bring yourself to rate the game, it won't kill the review. We're being so damn lenient that it boggles my mind how such simple, basic guidelines can have such a profound affect on him.
my two cents: the reviews forum sucks ass (Moved to Ramble) - Dark Jaguar - 23rd May 2005
Now, as far as scoring my opinion is basically just that assigning a number is too arbitrary to be worthwhile. I would have if forced, though I may not put much thought into the numbers, which is what is important. Whatever I think of it, I would do it if I couldn't talk them out of it, and really that's as far as I was willing to go, making my side clear and seeing if they agreed or not.
However, scoring aside, the rest of their requirements are very logical. Needing a minimum length, requiring sections discussing specific game aspects like story (where applicable, I am of the understanding such a thing would not need be discussed in a game like Tetris, or maybe even Mario), gameplay, general art direction, controls, and so on.
my two cents: the reviews forum sucks ass (Moved to Ramble) - A Black Falcon - 23rd May 2005
Quote:We're trying to set our own standards, that's why we've placed the rules. We're not going to start censoring the whole forum, just one little corner of the forum that can avoid the nonsense that is so prevalent and tolerated would be good.
Yes, we should set our own standards, but I'd say they're too weak right now... how much good is it when all of your reviewers are reviewing based on different systems? Sure, no one will ever agree compeltely on every aspect of what the perfect review system is, but I think some kind of agreement is better than nothing.
Quote:Now, as far as scoring my opinion is basically just that assigning a number is too arbitrary to be worthwhile. I would have if forced, though I may not put much thought into the numbers, which is what is important. Whatever I think of it, I would do it if I couldn't talk them out of it, and really that's as far as I was willing to go, making my side clear and seeing if they agreed or not.
However, scoring aside, the rest of their requirements are very logical. Needing a minimum length, requiring sections discussing specific game aspects like story (where applicable, I am of the understanding such a thing would not need be discussed in a game like Tetris, or maybe even Mario), gameplay, general art direction, controls, and so on.
The text of the review is definitely more important than the score. The goal of a review is to discuss the game and help the reader make the decision if they should play the game or not, I think. Yes, the reviewer's personal opinion will make an indelible impression on that score, but the good review also tries its best to be objective and not score it purely on their own biases but on their best effort to look at the game objectively.
But even so, numbers are an important aspect of that review. It adds simple clarity of, in general, what you think of the game and various aspects of the game (each site has its own subcategories... if we want a standard, we should discuss which ones we think we should use.) Now, there is the danger of people looking only at the numbers and not at the text, but still, I think it's an effective tool to sum up the review and should definitely be a part of the system.
I'd rather have a detailed, well-done review with no final number than a short one with scores in twenty categories, though. :)
my two cents: the reviews forum sucks ass (Moved to Ramble) - Dark Jaguar - 23rd May 2005
My "beef" with the numeric system can really be summed up this way. If it was possible to enumerate opinions, then I would agree that it would be an effective tool. It's not so much a matter of whether or not one can be objective, I do believe that is important for the actual text. It's really a matter, to me, of the fact that numbers are really intended for very concrete things that actually exist and can have some math applied to them, and really I can see no way in which a numerical value can really be assigned to such fuzzy concepts as game satisfaction. It's really more along the lines of a philosophical and logical issue, and I only stick to it because I can adhere to the rather unusual scrupples I develop pretty fastidiously. I'm not so stuck on that that I would start a war over it. I'd give a numberical value if I had to (though I likely wouldn't put much thought into it, maybe giving things a "I liked it/10" rating or something as a joke now and again, to remind people of my stance). I just thought I'd bring it up. They went ahead and slackened on that, which I appreciate, but again, it was nothing worth starting a war over, just something I felt worth pointing out for a moment to see what they'd say.
I don't believe any issue is black and white, not in the sense of "right and wrong". What I mean is that there are LEVELS of the amount of care people can have. There ARE stages between "I don't care at all" and "JIHAAAAAD!".