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+--- Thread: PD Zero!!!!!!!!!!! (/showthread.php?tid=2852)
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PD Zero!!!!!!!!!!! - Paco - 13th May 2005
The models look really good, imo. I don't know about those 1Up screenshots, you can see the characters much better and in motion here:
It's a four minute movie and Perfect Dark Zero takes up about the last minute and a half.
Download
Streamed
Here are pics from the movie:
http://www.gamereactor.dk/media/pdz_11261.jpg
http://www.gamereactor.dk/media/pdz_11262.jpg
http://www.gamereactor.dk/media/pdz_11263.jpg
http://www.gamereactor.dk/media/pdz_11264.jpg
http://www.gamereactor.dk/media/pdz_11265.jpg
http://www.gamereactor.dk/media/pdz_11266.jpg
http://www.gamereactor.dk/media/pdz_11267.jpg
http://www.gamereactor.dk/media/pdz_11268.jpg
http://www.gamereactor.dk/media/pdz_11269.jpg
Other than that, I like how you guys failed to mention that it is running on alpha dev kits. I suppose you missed it in that 1up article in your haste to bash it? Maybe not. *shrugs
PD Zero!!!!!!!!!!! - Smoke - 13th May 2005
You can't blame the alpha dev kit on this one. The other Xbox 360 games don't look anywhere as bad as PDZ. Check out Gears of War the new Unreal Engine 3.0 powered game from Epic Games. Hell even Ghost Recon 3 shits all over PDZ.
I think I know why it looks like so much shit though. It was probably being developed on Xbox for a long time and then all new 1st party games switched to Xbox 360 development. That still doesn't explain Wallguy and his zapper though.
PD Zero!!!!!!!!!!! - Paco - 13th May 2005
Smoke-X Wrote:You can't blame the alpha dev kit on this one. The other Xbox 360 games don't look anywhere as bad as PDZ. Check out Gears of War the new Unreal Engine 3.0 powered game from Epic Games. Hell even Ghost Recon 3 shits all over PDZ.
I think I know why it looks like so much shit though. It was probably being developed on Xbox for a long time and then all new 1st party games switched to Xbox 360 development. That still doesn't explain Wallguy and his zapper though.
You can definitely blame the frame rate on the alpha kit, and perhaps the lack of detail due to place holders (models and textures). Ever watch a "making of" for a video game?
You really need to see it in motion, the character models are without a doubt next gen.
I don't know, I think far too many people are calling it out too quickly. After next week we should have a better idea. Anyone remember seeing Halo at E3 just a few months prior to the launch of Xbox?
...
PD Zero!!!!!!!!!!! - OB1 - 13th May 2005
I saw it in motion. It's shit.
PD Zero!!!!!!!!!!! - OB1 - 13th May 2005
cppcrusader Wrote:You do realize that poly count stopped mattering like 2 or 3 years ago right? When done properly we can achieve the same results that a 10k poly model gets with a 5k poly model. Its all in the modeling and texturing. Regardless they look pretty decent for low poly models, but they certainly don't look next gen. And yes, Joanna's look is rather rad.
No my dear friend, polygons still matter quite a bit. There's a world of difference between Joanna here and say, this:
![[Image: unreal-tournament-2007-20050512030602650.jpg]](http://pcmedia.ign.com/pc/image/article/613/613140/unreal-tournament-2007-20050512030602650.jpg)
PD Zero!!!!!!!!!!! - Paco - 13th May 2005
OB1 Wrote:I saw it in motion. It's shit.I was referring to the character animation from the video feed I posted.
PD Zero!!!!!!!!!!! - OB1 - 13th May 2005
Yeah I saw most of that stuff already. It does not look next-gen.
PD Zero!!!!!!!!!!! - Paco - 13th May 2005
OB1 Wrote:No my dear friend, polygons still matter quite a bit. There's a world of difference between Joanna here and say, this:
http://pcmedia.ign.com/pc/image/article/613/613140/unreal-tournament-2007-20050512030602650.jpg
Heh, please watch the trailer I provided. The models look just as good as that Unreal 2007 one you just posted.
PD Zero!!!!!!!!!!! - Paco - 13th May 2005
OB1 Wrote:Yeah I saw most of that stuff already. It does not look next-gen.Don't say you have seen it all on the MTV special, because you didn't. There are more models and it shows them in motion. They are easily as impressive as any pic you can cough up from pc.ign.
PD Zero!!!!!!!!!!! - OB1 - 13th May 2005
Have you gone completely mad? PD0 doesn't even look as good as Half-Life 2! To compare it with Unreal 3 is purely insane. Even the most die-hard of xbots have expressed their dissapointment with the graphical quality of PD0.
And I saw most of that footage in the MTV special. Your link didn't show a whole lot more Rare stuff. The animations are nice, but certainly not anything special. And the models... good grief, lad.
THIS...
... looks like THIS to you?????
PD Zero!!!!!!!!!!! - A Black Falcon - 13th May 2005
I have to say, there's no comparison.
PD Zero!!!!!!!!!!! - OB1 - 13th May 2005
I think there are more polygons in his ear than in Joanna's entire body.
PD Zero!!!!!!!!!!! - Paco - 13th May 2005
OB1 Wrote:
Have you gone completely mad? PD0 doesn't even look as good as Half-Life 2! To compare it with Unreal 3 is purely insane. Even the most die-hard of xbots have expressed their dissapointment with the graphical quality of PD0.
The character models do, and those 1up shots are not enough to go by. They aren't even offically released shots, how do we know how old they are?
Quote:And I saw most of that footage in the MTV special. Your link didn't show a whole lot more Rare stuff. The animations are nice, but certainly not anything special. And the models... good grief, lad.
Only the MTV special didn't show Joanna in several outfits walking around, and it didn't show the facial expressions of several other characters. I don't remember seeing the corridor in it or seeing one of the characters go from wire modeled -> textured -> armor -> normal mapped armor.
I've seen all the Xbox 360 trailers available and can safely say the animations are as good as anything else that's been shown thus far. The environment is in question, but that's not what I'm discussing here.
PD Zero!!!!!!!!!!! - A Black Falcon - 13th May 2005
Heh... he also has the benefit of much higher resolution textures, clearly.
... so, does the next Unreal game require a liquid-cooled system, or nitrogen?
PD Zero!!!!!!!!!!! - OB1 - 13th May 2005
The XB360 actually has liquid cooling, heh.
PD Zero!!!!!!!!!!! - OB1 - 13th May 2005
Quote:The character models do, and those 1up shots are not enough to go by. They aren't even offically released shots, how do we know how old they are?
What the hell are you talking about? 1UP got the online exclusive on the screenshots! They're from MS!
Quote:Only the MTV special didn't show Joanna in several outfits walking around, and it didn't show the facial expressions of several other characters. I don't remember seeing the corridor in it or seeing one of the characters go from wire modeled -> textured -> armor -> normal mapped armor.
I've seen all the Xbox 360 trailers available and can safely say the animations are as good as anything else that's been shown thus far. The environment is in question, but that's not what I'm discussing here.
I've yet to see anything particularly special about the animation system of PD0. Nothing at all. Nothing bad, but nothing great, either. The models are very low poly. Each one is comprised of about 5,000 polys.... compare that to Leon in RE4's 10,000. Yeah. Now of course, they say that there will be tons of enemies on screen at once, but I've yet to impressed by any videos or screens thus far. Why show off the game if it looks so crappy?
PD Zero!!!!!!!!!!! - A Black Falcon - 13th May 2005
Quote:Only the MTV special didn't show Joanna in several outfits walking around, and it didn't show the facial expressions of several other characters. I don't remember seeing the corridor in it or seeing one of the characters go from wire modeled -> textured -> armor -> normal mapped armor.
I've seen all the Xbox 360 trailers available and can safely say the animations are as good as anything else that's been shown thus far. The environment is in question, but that's not what I'm discussing here.
OB1 isn't talking about animations, though, he's talking about poly count, textures... the graphics themselves. Sure, it may have great animations, but the key issue is the graphics themselves. And PD0 isn't even as good looking as the other X-Box 360 games, much less upcoming PC titles like Unreal 3 (or UT2006)... it wins by poly count AND by textures. Not good, when consoles are supposed to be better than contemporary PCs...
PD Zero!!!!!!!!!!! - Paco - 13th May 2005
![[Image: pdz_11262.jpg]](http://www.gamereactor.dk/media/pdz_11262.jpg)
There is as much detail in his armor as there is in that Unreal characters'.
Then he needs to quit arguing with me as I've only mentioned the animations. The rest is so incomplete it's not even worth discussing. To see the characters moving as they do in the feed I provided...I was impressed, even against everything else I've seen. Take that for what it's worth.
PD Zero!!!!!!!!!!! - A Black Falcon - 13th May 2005
Quote:Then he needs to quit arguing with me as I've only mentioned the animations. The rest is so incomplete it's not even worth discussing. To see the characters moving as they do in the feed I provided...I was impressed, even against everything else I've seen. Take that for what it's worth.
You'd have a much better point if there weren't other, better looking X-Box 360 games out there... there are.
But really, it is striking... traditionally PCs have been been behind graphically for several years after a console comes out. With X-Box 360... that is not necessarially the case. So, there really are only two ways to look at it... either we have passed the point of diminishing returns graphically (which I think we have), or the X-Box 360 isn't as good as it could be (which also seems possibly true, with MS's rush to get it out well before the competition)...
PD Zero!!!!!!!!!!! - Paco - 13th May 2005
A Black Falcon Wrote:You'd have a much better point if there weren't other, better looking X-Box 360 games out there... there are.
But really, it is striking... traditionally PCs have been been behind graphically for several years after a console comes out. With X-Box 360... that is not necessarially the case. So, there really are only two ways to look at it... either we have passed the point of diminishing returns graphically (which I think we have), or the X-Box 360 isn't as good as it could be (which also seems possibly true, with MS's rush to get it out well before the competition)...
We've had these trailers for a whole 24 hours, mind you NOTHING is running on final hardware which means at best these games are running with a 2 core cpu in mind, but already we're predicting the outcome of the Xbox 360? Sorry, I think everyone is jumping the gun.
PD Zero!!!!!!!!!!! - Great Rumbler - 14th May 2005
PD0 looks sub-par, Unreal 3 looks amazing. It's just that simple really.
PD Zero!!!!!!!!!!! - OB1 - 14th May 2005
Again, there's nothing particularly impressive about the game's animation system. Nothing at all, at least, nothing that has been shown yet. Show me an impressive facial animation system that blows away HL2's and then we'll talk. And those models are crap compared to Unreal 3.
PD Zero!!!!!!!!!!! - Paco - 14th May 2005
heh, keep talking ob1. Your complaint is probably going to nullified by this time next week.:)
PD Zero!!!!!!!!!!! - OB1 - 14th May 2005
I honestly hope that's true, because I was really looking forward to this game.
But really, there's absolutely nothing impessive about the animation system of PD0. That has been shown so far.
PD Zero!!!!!!!!!!! - Paco - 14th May 2005
The animation looks superior to anything I've seen of this generation of consoles, and it rivals what I've seen on recent games like Half-Life 2 and Doom 3.
We'll probably have something substantial to discuss after next week, but until then I'm going to leave it as is because I don't feel like running around in circles with you.
PD Zero!!!!!!!!!!! - OB1 - 14th May 2005
Bubba, I'm pretty familiar with what makes for good animation, and there's absolutely nothing impressive in any of those PD0 vids. By all means, explain to me what makes them so impressive!
PD Zero!!!!!!!!!!! - Paco - 14th May 2005
I really don't like repeating myself...
"The animation looks superior to anything I've seen of this generation of consoles, and it rivals what I've seen on recent games like Half-Life 2 and Doom 3."
PD Zero!!!!!!!!!!! - OB1 - 14th May 2005
I said explain why you think that.
PD Zero!!!!!!!!!!! - Paco - 14th May 2005
"The animation looks superior to anything I've seen of this generation of consoles, and it rivals what I've seen on recent games like Half-Life 2 and Doom 3."
The answer is right there, but I'll lay it all out for you. Half-Life 2, Doom 3; nice looking games that showcase at the very least what we should expect from next-gen. The animation in said games impressed me, and the animation I witnessed in the PD0 video, particularly that of Joanna, impressed me just as much.
What makes you qualified to validate whether or not I should be impressed?
PD Zero!!!!!!!!!!! - OB1 - 14th May 2005
If you ask someone why they like a certain movie, you expect them to give you a more detailed response than just "it was good" if the quality of said movie is being used in a debate.
PD Zero!!!!!!!!!!! - Smoke - 14th May 2005
A Black Falcon Wrote:You'd have a much better point if there weren't other, better looking X-Box 360 games out there... there are.Yeah, like this:
![[Image: 786_0001.jpg]](http://media.xboxyde.com/gallery/public/1096/786_0001.jpg)
That's not from Unreal 3. It uses the Unreal Engine 3.0 but it's actually Gears of War for Xbox 360. It's being developed by Epic Games and published by MS. That's why the PDZ shots are so lackluster, the Xbox 360 is capable of this! And no, PDZ does not look this good, nothing else looks this good.
IGN's Gears of War page
PD Zero!!!!!!!!!!! - OB1 - 14th May 2005
That's a shot from Unreal Tournament 2007, Smoke. And those Gears shots are from June 2004.
PD Zero!!!!!!!!!!! - Great Rumbler - 14th May 2005
Yeah, it even SAYS its from Unreal Tournament 2007 in the image URL...
PD Zero!!!!!!!!!!! - Smoke - 14th May 2005
I fixed it. GoW and UT2007 look pretty much the same though.
PD Zero!!!!!!!!!!! - Smoke - 14th May 2005
That monster that Epic showed apparently is from GoW though.
![[Image: cov_146_lres.jpg]](http://www.gameinformer.com/NR/rdonlyres/A96188BB-B636-4711-A85A-5908B655C7C2/6836/cov_146_lres.jpg)
![[Image: new-unreal-engine-3-views-20040624041527026.jpg]](http://pcmedia.ign.com/pc/image/article/526/526179/new-unreal-engine-3-views-20040624041527026.jpg)
PD Zero!!!!!!!!!!! - lazyfatbum - 14th May 2005
Now that fucking looks next gen!
PD Zero!!!!!!!!!!! - Great Rumbler - 14th May 2005
Indeed it does. Now bring on the Revolution and PS3 pics!!
PD Zero!!!!!!!!!!! - OB1 - 14th May 2005
Yes indeed. And that's supposed to be easy to pull off on the XB360. And then the PD0 and DOA4 shots came...
PD Zero!!!!!!!!!!! - Great Rumbler - 14th May 2005
Which makes no sense no matter how you look at it.
PD Zero!!!!!!!!!!! - A Black Falcon - 14th May 2005
Unreal Engine 3.0 seems to be the best engine in the business right now, that's pretty clear.
PD Zero!!!!!!!!!!! - Smoke - 16th May 2005
Well I don't know about PDZ but apparently the DOA4 shots are according to Tecmo "not indicative of the final game". They even threatened Gaming-Age with legal action if they didn't remove the screens from their forum.
PD Zero!!!!!!!!!!! - Great Rumbler - 16th May 2005
Damage Control!!