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+--- Thread: The pope is dead. (/showthread.php?tid=2715)
The pope is dead. - A Black Falcon - 6th April 2005
If you get more money to support a cause that needs it, then it's a good thing to do...
The pope is dead. - Weltall - 6th April 2005
A Black Falcon Wrote:If you get more money to support a cause that needs it, then it's a good thing to do...
Yeah, but it doesn't make you a hero. There's no comparison to that and to actually solving the problem with your own sweat and tears.
The pope is dead. - A Black Falcon - 6th April 2005
If those people don't have the money to be able to do anything, though, they aren't of much use... you need both.
The pope is dead. - Weltall - 6th April 2005
Mother Teresa lived in the same conditions as the people she helped.
The pope is dead. - Smoke - 7th April 2005
Money's not the only way to solve problems. You've got hands, use them. (That's not directed at anyone specifically just in general)
The pope is dead. - alien space marine - 7th April 2005
Ryan Wrote:Mother Teresa lived in the same conditions as the people she helped.
Not entirely correct , While I conquere she was not a media graber and was probaily a very sincere person. She did take monitary donations and she did have her church and high favor with the now late Pope John Paul II to back her infact at one point she was the most famous catholic in the world besides the Pope himself, Probaily also got asistance from the indian goverment as well.
I know of a Indian social worker who even became a minister of public affairs at one point who immigrated and retired out of india to canada he has a docterate and is highly educated, But not super rich he is just middle class man living in a modest a regualar average sized home , He used his own money and finances to open schools for the poor homeless children in india , He taught there as well running it almost full time with his wife untill he retired and passed it over to his Son who was a qualified teacher,He even had to provide food and lunch for many of them, Aparently he even met mother Terresa once, Though he is a atheist but still admits admiration for Mahandis Ghandi. Nobody here knows who he is except those he meets in person and the people and children who he fought to bring reforms to save from poverty and even child slavery are the only ones who know him Docter Abu Sadiq.
I understand the skepticism of celebs and rich pricks doing sopposed charity work , I agree view each one with a grain of salt , If britney spears or Lindsey Lohan went all preachy I wouldnt buy it.
I am more disturbed by Billionaire CEO who are willing to blow millions getting such useless shit like golden toilets or blowing millions for just one single extravagent private dinner party for all their buddies , Milliondollaire designer suites, 50 luxury classic sports cars such Dodge vipers,Hummers ect.. When its time to help the poor and be generious its peanut brittle.
Its like a mega oil company drilling in a 3rd world country in africa, They make 80-300 billion dollars revenue every year from that one country , The best charity they can give is a measily 24 million dollars! The average price of the company board members one of many cottages , homes and Estates.
50% of doesnt even have running water or acess to school and medicine , 24 million dollars I have seen that exact amount spent on just one single city hall.
I dont think Lady Diana ever called herself a hero, Personally in my opinion I saw more sincerity in her efforts then her ex husbands or childrens put ons, Its the public that saintified her when she died they did a incredible mass gushing and high exalting just like the Pope right now so maybe it was blown out of perportions. I dont think these celebrities desserve higher credit then those who make the same efforts with so much less to work with, I agree there.
I think your wrong about Bono , Maybe I am a U2 fan afterall , But knowing the lyrics of all their albums over the years I think he is plan out sincere, He didnt have to do shit but he does his music for the longtest time refferences all those things he talks about like the isreali/Palestinian conflict for example in the last album in one tract , Weither he does this or not he is gonna sell albums.
Bono being a Irish men growing up with the bull shit amosity and conflict there , Waisnt raised a spoilt little bitch. He was a muscian unlike the bubble gum pop preprocessed artificial shit Pop is now , There was a time it was the rocker who spoke out and spread awareness and his music was the anti status quo.
Just becuase you have money or become famous doesnt mean your not allowed to care anymore , Its doesnt automatically make you a hypocrite or a put on.
The pope is dead. - Geno - 19th April 2005
In other news, a new pope has been selected. A German man who will now be going by the name Pope Benedict the XVI is now the man right below God in the Catholic faith.
The pope is dead. - Great Rumbler - 19th April 2005
They should have picked an American as the next pope.
The pope is dead. - A Black Falcon - 19th April 2005
Joy, they managed to find one of the few people even MORE conservative than John Paul II...
The pope is dead. - Great Rumbler - 19th April 2005
Well, there's certainly nothing wrong with that.
The pope is dead. - A Black Falcon - 19th April 2005
Yes, there is.
The pope is dead. - Weltall - 19th April 2005
As I understand, he doesn't like America very much.
But there isn't anything wrong with being conservative.
The pope is dead. - A Black Falcon - 19th April 2005
American catholics are slightly more liberal than he is overall, though... the majority are in favor of contraception, at least, I'm sure (think I've seen polls saying that).
The pope is dead. - Great Rumbler - 19th April 2005
The church cannot, by it's very definition, be progressive. Well, I suppose it can to an extent, but this isn't a democracy we're talking about here and the Bible is most certainly not a living document to be interpreted as we se fit. Just saying is all.
The pope is dead. - OB1 - 19th April 2005
The new Pope looks like Palpatine!
![[Image: Card.%20Joseph%20Ratzinger-2.jpg]](http://www.vaticanphoto.li/images/Card.%20Joseph%20Ratzinger-2.jpg)
The pope is dead. - Great Rumbler - 19th April 2005
...
The pope is dead. - alien space marine - 19th April 2005
Ryan Wrote:As I understand, he doesn't like America very much.
But there isn't anything wrong with being conservative.
Personally I wouldnt care what the church did with itself and its members, But stay out of our politics and our goverment. History shows time and time again that religion and politics dont mix, Even science and politics dont even work together that well either.
I dont have a problem with light moderate conservatism , Nothing wrong with being willing to hear both sides of the story and work out a deal. Then just a iron fisted closed shut up dont ask questions or else will punnish you mentality.
Your political parties really suck , I guess I can say the same in my countries case as well. But yours have a knife to each others throats and truth is only matter who you listen too.
What happend in canada and why we suddenly turned away from conservatism back in early 90's had alot to do with the failed dishonnored adminstration of Brian Malroney , He was the guy that totaly went tax crazy and lied and broke his word on everything he said that he would and wouldnt do when he was elected,The free trade agreement he made then was a very unpopular decision as well.
When I went shoping in new york a few days ago I was astonished that you guys dont have to pay sales tax on quite alot of things,Even with your gas as high as it is you still pay less then we do on a good day.
The pope is dead. - Geno - 19th April 2005
The new pope was once a Nazi. Nothing wrong with being that conservative, is there? :)
But yeah, as ASM is suggesting, we need better bridge builders between parties. There are too many people blindly taking sides. Everyone's ideas should be heard and accepted. George Washington, in particular, was against political parties. He felt they formed alliances, and we don't need opposing alliances in our country. We should all be one big alliance. Anyway, I'm drifting away from the point. There are too many people who blindly vote straight ticket for whatever party they're sold their souls to, completely ignorant of the issues at hand. What's sad is that a lot of them try to defend their guy or their party even though they don't know what's going on, then they criticize people for seeing things differently, regardless of whether or not the person they criticize knows a few things about the issues.
Yeah... around here (meaning in Alabama), there's too much crap being spewed from people's mouths about politics when they don't even know what they're talking about. Admittingly, I'm no political expert myself, but even I can smell bullshit when it's clearly presented.
The pope is dead. - Weltall - 19th April 2005
I actually think that having political parties is helpful. People are going to disagree, it's healthier for orderly debate if that disagreement was amplified in two main directions, as opposed to fifty seperate, equally-strong directions. Having too many differing points of view makes compromise incredibly difficult.
The pope is dead. - A Black Falcon - 19th April 2005
If you think this Pope's level of conservatism is fine, then you're fine with no contraception and a subordinate role for women in society (remember, women cannot become priests. This pope almost certainly won't change that.)?
The pope is dead. - OB1 - 19th April 2005
"Are you trying to threaten me, Master Jedi?"
The pope is dead. - alien space marine - 20th April 2005
The Hole thing with Contraceptions with the catholic church , Is really about trying to prevent women from ever gaining equality and equal footing with men or even just being treated as a human beings and a distinct individual , To the Church a womens purpose ends after child birth and house duty.
The Church wants women tied down with endless child birth and child rearing it keeps them in line and in the home were they belong, Thats happend to my grand mother, You should see they kind of huge sized families they had on average in the 50's and 60's in staunch catholic households before the pill was invented it was because of church pressure, The idea also for this was to increase church members seriously! It was strategy to try to gain majority population in many countries, The Popes influeintial hold on a country is alot stronger the higher the percentage of catholics in it.
The pope is dead. - N-Man - 20th April 2005
The new Pope wasn't a Nazi, he was drafted into the Hitler Youth (just like all the other teenagers in Germany at that time) and got out of it by studying to be a priest, then he was drafted into the army and deserted.
ASM, remember that to Catholics, there is no greater duty than to augment the numbers and the glory of the Church. It's not because you see the situation of Catholic women as problematic that this is so in the eyes of the Church; why should women have lowly secular ambitions when they can instead do God's bidding and give Him more children to spread His word? I'm not saying this is right, just remember to consider the religious perspective in the argument. The clergy doesn't go around saying "oh yeah we'll keep them down, those damn women", you know. If you're a believer, their perspective certainly makes sense.
Also, Mulroney shmulroney. This time around the Liberals f'ed up with the whole sponsorship thing, and the Conservatives have a chance to take the gov't once again. In Canada we don't elect governments based on opinions; we just elect one party, wait till it does something so stupid we can't vote it in again, then elect the other, rinse and repeat.
The pope is dead. - alien space marine - 22nd April 2005
I get church logic, No contraceptives lots of babys and then thanks to no protective sex they all die off painfully.
In actually they church can say whatever they want but its exactly what I was saying , Thats why their also agiast planed parenthood because that would also give time for women as well to do other things.
If we had just gone through the bubonic plague maybe, But right now overpopulation is a plague its causing shortages in everything such as Land and food if you live in packed in countries!
The reason for the amazon forrest destruction is an out of control birth rate of south america thanks to yours truly the catholic church!
The same group that once said the world was flat ,Soap and Jews all heathens caused the black death.
The church is anti women , Its alot softer then say during the witch hunt or before secularization but still silently anti women.
Why total celebacy amongst the priesthood? The apostles had wives! The bible never comands absolute celebacy it was never a strict requirement.
Now you get overly sexual repressed priest taking it out on little kids or picking up prostitutes.
The pope is dead. - N-Man - 22nd April 2005
No man, I don't think you get it. From a religious standpoint the Church isn't anti-women, in fact they're so pro-women that they give them the greatest duty of bringing new Catholics into the world. The Church has always opposed secular ambition both in the case of men AND women - for someone who seeks to attain Heaven, wealth is superfluous, and should therefore remain in the hands of the Church who will use it for the glory of God (this is why our churches always have way better interior decoration than Protestant churches). The idea that succeeding in life is a good thing, ala the American Dream, is a very Protestant idea that has only recently spread to the Catholic world, in the last 50 years or so, and has always accompanied the secularization of society at large. It's possible that the Church has changed its viewpoint to a certain degree to try and reconcile the secularized ex-Catholics, which I think is a stupid idea - and apparently so does the new Pope - because you're either Catholic or you're not. The modern ideals of life are so far removed from Jesus's original teachings that it's simply idiotic to try and reconcile them like so many people want to - either you're willing to live your life in poverty and prayer, as Jesus did, until you finally die and go to Heaven, or you just fuck off from the Church, period (as I did btw).
Now I realize you couldn't just pick up and leave 50 years ago in the middle of Duplessis's reign, but the fact is that with the arrival of the new secular way of life you *can* pick and choose, so there's no reason for reform within the Church.
As for the Bible not commanding celibacy, that is irrelevant. Once again the idea that the Bible's is God's word is a Protestant tenet and has nothing to do with Catholicism. In Catholicism, the Bible is simply a collection of divinely inspired literature which is left to be interpreted by the Church. If the Church interprets the Bible in a way that makes them think priests ought to remain celibate, then priests will remain celibate.
Also blaming the destruction of the Amazon Forest on the Catholic Church is pretty weak. How about we start with the lumber industry and take it from there?
The pope is dead. - A Black Falcon - 22nd April 2005
The Catholic church is in favor of keeping things as they always were. Change is no in their lexicon. Women? Stay at home... women priests is a crazy idea to people like that. Same with allowing contraception. These are things that modern society realizes are important things to have. And that's not even going anywhere current civil rights issues like homosexuality...
No, they are not in favor of women in a modern sense. Only in a out-of-date one that denigrates and insults them.
The pope is dead. - Great Rumbler - 22nd April 2005
I may not agree with some of the things that the Catholic church does, but I do agree that changing church doctorine to suit the times is generally not a good thing.
The pope is dead. - A Black Falcon - 22nd April 2005
So it's better to keep it patently unfair and cruel?
The pope is dead. - Great Rumbler - 22nd April 2005
I didn't say that it was without exception, such as if they're doing something that goes against what the Bible says then they should change. I don't think their church works that way though.
The pope is dead. - OB1 - 22nd April 2005
What The Bible says and how people have interpreted it over the centuries are not one and the same.
The earth is the center of the universe, right? Eh?
The pope is dead. - Geno - 22nd April 2005
Of course if it is, and if you suggest otherwise, we will kill you for being an abomination.
The pope is dead. - Great Rumbler - 22nd April 2005
Quote:The earth is the center of the universe, right? Eh?
I don't remember that part in the Bible...
The pope is dead. - OB1 - 22nd April 2005
Neither do I, yet that's what the church held to until the 20th century. Just saying is all!
The pope is dead. - A Black Falcon - 22nd April 2005
The Bible is easily interpreted to defend almost anything, so you can't "use the bible" as your law even if you want to. You can use your idea of what you think the Bible means -- but this is a very different thing from what the actual, contradictory, Bible says. :)
The pope is dead. - OB1 - 22nd April 2005
That's you interpreting it to be contradictory as well. You're doing the same thing you accuse others of.
The pope is dead. - A Black Falcon - 22nd April 2005
It's impossible to interpret it any other way, if you look at everything that's in the thing...
The pope is dead. - OB1 - 22nd April 2005
Tell that to the innumerable sects of Christianity. If you think that you have figured out the true meaning of The Bible then your ego is even greater than I imagined. Most of the stuff in The Bible is allegory, so of course it's going to sound contradictory if you read it literally. Don't be silly.
The pope is dead. - A Black Falcon - 22nd April 2005
It's written by people, many people, so of course it's contradictory... it'd be impossible for it to be any other way... and I don't quite get what you're talking about... saying 'the Bible has no one true meaning (in the way that lots of christian sects take it to)' doesn't mean that I know the true meaning of the Bible...
Of course the Bible does have some basic things it can agree on, like wanting people to follow God... oh wait, in the Old Testament that only applies to Jews. They didn't exactly prostelitize (sp?)... :)
The pope is dead. - OB1 - 22nd April 2005
Again, what you're saying is that you, mighty ABF, understand The Bible totally and completely and that you have empirically proven that your mighty interpretation of it is absolute and that the book is contradictory.
Amazing.
Everyone, I suggest we start following ABF from now on. Truly, he has the answers.
Seriously though, you have every right to interpret the Bible however you want, but to suggest that your interpretation is correct and that everyone else's is wrong is utterly ridiculous. Even for you.
The pope is dead. - A Black Falcon - 23rd April 2005
What in the world are you talking about, OB1? Really, you're making no sense... and oh yeah, just saying "you're stupid" isn't an answer.
The pope is dead. - OB1 - 23rd April 2005
You said:
Quote:You can use your idea of what you think the Bible means -- but this is a very different thing from what the actual, contradictory, Bible says.
Quote:It's impossible to interpret it any other way,
WHAT ARE YOU TRYING TO SAY??
The pope is dead. - A Black Falcon - 23rd April 2005
I'm not doing some deep interpretation of the Bible, OB1... :) I couldn't, I'm not exactly the most versed person on the Bible. It's not like in the church I went to we had to memorize the thing... we just read a few bits.
The pope is dead. - OB1 - 23rd April 2005
You just stated that you know what the Bible says, and that it is definitely contradictory. You stated it as a fact.
The pope is dead. - A Black Falcon - 23rd April 2005
You are reading far, far more into that statement than I ever meant... something most people would have understood, but not you, either because of your desperate need to find things in my posts to argue with or your problems understanding what people mean that you won't acknowledge.
The pope is dead. - OB1 - 23rd April 2005
The last thing I want to do is argue about the Bible. But your posts were very clear. You stated, as a fact, that the Bible is contradictory, going so far as to suggest that it's impossible for it not to be. Even though you haven't read it!
The pope is dead. - A Black Falcon - 23rd April 2005
I've read enough to know it contradicts itsself... it does within a couple pages of the start, I'm pretty sure...
The pope is dead. - OB1 - 23rd April 2005
The great Bible scholar, ABF.
The pope is dead. - A Black Falcon - 23rd April 2005
Never said I was. :)
The pope is dead. - OB1 - 23rd April 2005
Actually, making that definitive statement suggested that you do think you are.
The pope is dead. - A Black Falcon - 23rd April 2005