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+--- Thread: The Official Celebrate/Cry About Who The Next President Is Thread (/showthread.php?tid=2328)
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The Official Celebrate/Cry About Who The Next President Is Thread - Great Rumbler - 2nd November 2004
Vote early and vote often!
The Official Celebrate/Cry About Who The Next President Is Thread - OB1 - 2nd November 2004
Who else is planning on watching The Daily Show's coverage?
The Official Celebrate/Cry About Who The Next President Is Thread - Great Rumbler - 2nd November 2004
I'd watch it if I had Comedy Central. What I'm thinking about doing is watching Harvery Birdman for 6 hours on CN.
The Official Celebrate/Cry About Who The Next President Is Thread - OB1 - 2nd November 2004
Good plan.
Especially since probably won't really find out who the next president is until March or something.
The Official Celebrate/Cry About Who The Next President Is Thread - A Black Falcon - 2nd November 2004
Aren't they repeating the same episode over and over?
The Official Celebrate/Cry About Who The Next President Is Thread - Great Rumbler - 2nd November 2004
Yes. :D
So far nothing really exciting is happening, most of the states that the parties won last year they're re-winning this year. Still, it's going to be a long night I think.
The Official Celebrate/Cry About Who The Next President Is Thread - EdenMaster - 2nd November 2004
Last I checked, Bush had big lead. I know a lot of people who will be very upset if Bush gets re-elected...I can't think of a single Bush supporter I know.
The Official Celebrate/Cry About Who The Next President Is Thread - OB1 - 3rd November 2004
Well it looks like Bush is going to be re-elected. They'll be a fight over Ohio for a while but unlike last time it looks like Bush actually won fair and square. And he actually has the popular vote.
I just don't know what to say. I can't believe that there are enough misguided people out there to put this incompetent fool back into office, but what can I say. I can only pray that the next four years won't be as bad as the past four years have been.
The Official Celebrate/Cry About Who The Next President Is Thread - The Former DMiller - 3rd November 2004
Well, it's not looking good for Kerry, but there are still a number of states up in the air even if you don't count Ohio. I think it will still be a few days before we get an official winner, but I think we will probably end up with another four years of Bush.
The Official Celebrate/Cry About Who The Next President Is Thread - OB1 - 3rd November 2004
Updated: Bush is in for four more years. It's official now.
The Official Celebrate/Cry About Who The Next President Is Thread - The Former DMiller - 3rd November 2004
My only hope is Bush starts to own up to some of his mistakes and fix some of them now that he doesn't need to worry about reelection. I seriously doubt he will, but he needs to in order to heal this country.
The Official Celebrate/Cry About Who The Next President Is Thread - A Black Falcon - 3rd November 2004
My only thought is that could Bush possibly be worse in a second term? I mean, he did just about every possible bad thing he could humanly do in term one, so I doubt it could get much worse...
And locally the news is better. Kerry won Maine (supposed "battleground" state) 54-45... the horrible 1% property tax cap bill (a copy of that horribly destructive bill passed in California 15 or 20 years ago) failed (65-35!), our two Democratic representatives to the House won... sure, the Republicans might take the State Senate, but the Democrats are holding the House and have the Governorship so that's not so bad...
The Official Celebrate/Cry About Who The Next President Is Thread - OB1 - 3rd November 2004
Yeah but he doesn't actually believe that he did anything wrong... that's what scares me the most.
The Official Celebrate/Cry About Who The Next President Is Thread - A Black Falcon - 3rd November 2004
(I added to my last post)
True. And expect more environmental devastation, idiotic tax cuts, isolation from the world, etc. But I don't think he can start any more wars anytime soon at least...
The Official Celebrate/Cry About Who The Next President Is Thread - A Black Falcon - 3rd November 2004
And I still wish it'd been Dean running for president, not Kerry.
Hmm, what are the early rumors... Giuliani vs. Hillary Clinton in '08?
Or Arnold Swartzenegger (sp), if he can get the laws changed... :)
The Official Celebrate/Cry About Who The Next President Is Thread - OB1 - 3rd November 2004
Well the crappy 90's Stallone flick Demotion Man had Arnold as president after he was able to change that law preventing non US-born citizens from leading the country.
I don't know whether to laugh or cry about that since it is now a possibility.
The early 21st century is so going to be laughed at in the future, I just know it.
The Official Celebrate/Cry About Who The Next President Is Thread - A Black Falcon - 3rd November 2004
... and now it could become reality! He has the ambition, all he needs is a constitutional amendment...
The Official Celebrate/Cry About Who The Next President Is Thread - A Black Falcon - 3rd November 2004
![[Image: usmap.gif?nocache=219902484]](http://i.a.cnn.net/cnn/ELECTION/2004/data/usmap.gif?nocache=219902484)
I'd recommend not going south of Maryland...
If someone wants another comment, how about this. The American people lived up to my expectations of their stupidity. (its not being a pessimist, it's being a realist! :))
The Official Celebrate/Cry About Who The Next President Is Thread - OB1 - 3rd November 2004
Hey it was neck-and-neck in most states, so it's not like the red states were completely red.
Except for Oklahoma. :)
The Official Celebrate/Cry About Who The Next President Is Thread - A Black Falcon - 3rd November 2004
Oklahoma, Kansas, Nebraska, and a few others had over-60% majorities for Bush... I think it was like 65% in Kansas...
*checks*
66% in OK, 62% in Kansas, 67% in Nebraska... also at or over 60% in North and South Dakota. And Texas. ... too many states...
The Official Celebrate/Cry About Who The Next President Is Thread - OB1 - 3rd November 2004
Yeah but that's Kansas... and Oklahoma, well, I understand why GR is a republican. :) When you're brought up a certain way and live your entire life in a place like that, what do you expect? :D
The Official Celebrate/Cry About Who The Next President Is Thread - A Black Falcon - 3rd November 2004
Not just those. I added a few more, and that's not all of them... Alaska, Utah...
Wait, Utah. 71% Bush. Wow... Mormons are conservative...
All across the Midwest and West and South Bush put up impressive, 60-plus percent victories, in short. Not in every state, but in too many of them. It'd be scary if the map hadn't looked exactly the same four years ago...
Well, okay, there was one change. The big glaring red mark in the North was erased, as New Hampshire went for Kerry. But other than that... excepting Iowa and New Mexico, which Gore won but Kerry is now losing (though both races are still too close to call), it's exactly the same as last time.
The Official Celebrate/Cry About Who The Next President Is Thread - The Former DMiller - 3rd November 2004
I think '08 will see McCain against Hillary unless the Democrats actually wise up and pick a candidate who won't polarize a lot of people. I really hope McCain runs because he is one of the few politicians I really respect and I would vote for him in a second.
The Official Celebrate/Cry About Who The Next President Is Thread - A Black Falcon - 3rd November 2004
McCain is definitely better than most Republicans...
The Official Celebrate/Cry About Who The Next President Is Thread - A Black Falcon - 3rd November 2004
Oh, and this is a politics thread, and a electoral one, so how about I bring up a few issues...
1) Washington DC should get senators and congresspeople too, and not be second-class citizens
2)Puerto Rico should be a state (sorry Guam, the US Virgin Islands, and American Samoa, but you just aren't large enough to qualify I belive)
3)We should get rid of the Electoral College and vote purely by popular vote.
The Official Celebrate/Cry About Who The Next President Is Thread - Dark Jaguar - 3rd November 2004
Here's something about electoral colleges, and why they exist. Well actually it's a little about everything regarding election methods. Read this ABF!
http://members.cox.net/mathmistakes/polling.htm
And read the whole thing! The most important stuff is at the bottom!
The Official Celebrate/Cry About Who The Next President Is Thread - A Black Falcon - 3rd November 2004
I know, I know, the Electoral College has advantages, and prime among them is enfranchising the smaller states with a greater say. And there is definitely a good argument to be made for both sides. But I think that we would be better off in the long run with a system where the winner is the one with the most votes...
Quote:# Electoral College vs. Popular Vote - One of the most blatantly obvious reforms that may be discussed would be to replace the "outdated" Electoral College with a popular vote. While a popular vote would be more democratic, there are two major advantages to the electoral college. First, since the popular vote itself was so close, and voter irregularities like Florida's were reported in practically every other state, we would be dealing right now with lawsuits across the country, not just Florida. Second, there is wisdom in letting the individual states decide the next president. A popular vote would federalize the election, taking the election away from the states. The rural states would essentially be disenfranchised by the urban states. The Electoral College system is one of the checks and balances put in to the Constitution to guarantee that the Federal Government will always be dependent on the state legislatures. Madison wrote:
The State governments may be regarded as constituent and essential parts of the federal government; whilst the latter is nowise essential to the operation or organization of the former. Without the intervention of the State legislatures, the President of the United States cannot be elected at all. They must in all cases have a great share in his appointment, and will, perhaps, in most cases, of themselves determine it. (Federalist 45 paragraph 7)
This quote has been getting a lot of attention lately in that it essentially means that the Florida Legislature can indeed vote for electors regardless of the outcome of the lawsuits. But, it also puts a good argument forward in keeping the Electoral College. I would like to see the Electoral College stay but with some changes. Two states, Nebraska and Maine, have a system in place in awarding electors more fairly. The winner of the whole state would get two electoral votes, then the winner in each congressional district would get an additional electoral vote. This reform would not require a Constitutional Amendment to implement, just a law passed in each of the states with more than 3 electoral votes available. And it would be to the States advantage to do so. Candidates do not go to states they have no chance of winning. All 54 electoral votes in California went to Gore, but if this program were in place, 15 or 16 of those votes would have gone to Bush. Gore could have made up the difference in other states like Arizona with 8 votes that went to Bush, but at least two votes would have gone to Gore under this system. Florida would be split 11 for Gore and 14 for Bush. An analysis of this plan using the election returns since 1960 would have sent Nixon instead of Kennedy to the White House in 1960, and would have resulted in a tied electoral count (269 to 269) in the Ford and Carter race in 1976.
The biggest advantage would be the nearly complete elimination of post election lawsuits. Questionable outcomes would be limited for the most part to individual congressional districts, not statewide like we have now or nationwide like we would have under a popular vote scenario. Yes, it would still be mathematically possible to win the popular vote, but lose the electoral vote, but such a reform would ultimately be more decisive.
That would be a good start (or alternative perhaps?). We already have it, more states should do it too...
The Official Celebrate/Cry About Who The Next President Is Thread - Dark Jaguar - 3rd November 2004
Honestly that's the best possible reform of the electoral system, and as this guy points out, each individual state DOES need to have a sense of power. In the lesser states, being completely drowned out means their votes simply don't count, and that'll be the case election after election. With electorals, their votes DO have an effect, even if it's small.
Having the electorals decided district by district within the states however is better than that, for the mathematical reasons this fellow stated. At a time, I had a problem with the electoral college too, but this fellow pretty much points out that, in order for states to keep their power, we have to keep it. Reform it, certainly after what he's said, but a nationwide system with only the overall votes just has too much going against it, as in, total disenfranchisement among a lot of people no matter HOW important an election may be.
I think the best part of this is that presidential candidates would suddenly be forced to consider the needs of a lot more areas rather than ignoring entire states because of standard defaulting to one party that a lot do. It's kinda disenfranchising when you know your whole state is going to counter your vote too, but if it's just your district, hey, that seems managable :D.
But anyway, as this guy said, there is no perfect voting system, but rather, it's whatever people agree on before hand, and to suddenly contest the agreed upon rules (note that places where the rules have actually been violated are another story entirely, and SHOULD be contested) after the fact is being a sore looser, of the kind that says "alright, best two out of three". I'm certainly glad we don't do round robin voting anyway :D.
The Official Celebrate/Cry About Who The Next President Is Thread - A Black Falcon - 3rd November 2004
Colorado had a possible amendment this year to have a electoral split where they were appointed proportionally -- ie if it was 55/45 it'd go 5 for one and 4 for the other, I think, or something like that -- but it lost. That isn't as good an idea really as what Maine and Nebraska have, I believe. It's one solution, but I think that 'by district', at this point in time, is the better choice. Maybe sometime in the future we can do that or just get rid of the Electoral College, but I don't see it happening anytime soon...
So, more states do like Maine and Nebraska! :)
The Official Celebrate/Cry About Who The Next President Is Thread - OB1 - 3rd November 2004
Yeah that colorado amendment wouldn't have been good as it would have dimished our state's importance. But still, my vote didn't count... :(
The Official Celebrate/Cry About Who The Next President Is Thread - Dark Jaguar - 3rd November 2004
Yeah ABF, I agree there, that is a pretty bad system and I'm glad it failed, as it leaves room for that other system to be set in place. (Since you know if it did succeed, it would be many years before the people would be willing to change it yet again.)
The Official Celebrate/Cry About Who The Next President Is Thread - Dark Jaguar - 3rd November 2004
Okay, AGAIN I'll type this. (Guess what happened?)
Now then, there are a couple other reforms that'd be nice. I've talked about how more parties need to be given the time of day enough before, so I won't go into that.
But, the parties themselves I think just don't let enough people vote on their candidates. I belive that not just one state should vote for that, but the whole nation. Now, the parties are NOT government bodies, but rather more like "clubs", so a legal requirement for how they operate, even if their operations determine a whole lot, may not be the best choice. BUT, I should want that the parties themselves would decide to allow the whole nation to vote on their candidates simply out of a sense of... is justice the right word here? Really, isn't it a bit annoying that some other states get to decide who your choices are?
And now I'll END the post with this question. Can ANYONE tell me the shortcut buttons that tell the browser to go back, and WHY they are LETTERS THAT I'M PRESSING? Seriously, even tell me if you DON'T know anything about that so I at LEAST know you are listening to me on this.
The Official Celebrate/Cry About Who The Next President Is Thread - A Black Falcon - 3rd November 2004
I have no idea why it does that, DJ... can't you look up the hotkeys? Or use a better browser. :D Or look at your keyboard and see if the keys are stuck... :)
The Official Celebrate/Cry About Who The Next President Is Thread - Great Rumbler - 3rd November 2004
Quote:Except for Oklahoma.
Yeah, all the counties in Oklahoma but one voted for Bush. One odd thing though about the part of the state I live in is that there are quite a few Democrats.
The Official Celebrate/Cry About Who The Next President Is Thread - OB1 - 3rd November 2004
Man you southerners are weird.
The Official Celebrate/Cry About Who The Next President Is Thread - Great Rumbler - 3rd November 2004
Quote:Man you southerners are weird.
You Coloradorolororans are weird!
The Official Celebrate/Cry About Who The Next President Is Thread - OB1 - 3rd November 2004
Well yes that is pretty true.
THANKFULLY I'M NOT A COLORADOLADOAN!!! HAHA GOTCHA THERE!!!!!
Well, not native, anyways.
The Official Celebrate/Cry About Who The Next President Is Thread - A Black Falcon - 3rd November 2004
But you live there...
The Official Celebrate/Cry About Who The Next President Is Thread - Dark Lord Neo - 3rd November 2004
The Daily Show's coverage was on CTV, wich is the second biggest network in Canada.
We had a "discussion" in our social class today about the election and who we would have voted for if we could, it's suprising that even in Albeta, the conservative heartland of Canada 3/4 of our class said they would have voted for Kerry. I said I would have voted for Nader, so I got to be the loner who had to promote Nader. I really would have voted for him too if I was eligible to vote, unless I lived in a state where the results were predicted to be really close, then I would have voted for Kerry.
The Official Celebrate/Cry About Who The Next President Is Thread - Great Rumbler - 4th November 2004
Quote:We had a "discussion" in our social class today about the election and who we would have voted for if we could, it's suprising that even in Albeta, the conservative heartland of Canada 3/4 of our class said they would have voted for Kerry.
At my highschool we had a mock election and I was one of two people in the whole Senior class [20-something students] to vote for Bush.
The Official Celebrate/Cry About Who The Next President Is Thread - The Former DMiller - 4th November 2004
At the junior high I work at they had a mock election with real ballots and ballot booths (I work in the affluent north shore of Chicago) and the kids voted 68% for Kerry and 12% for Bush with the rest of the votes going to write-in candidates.
The Official Celebrate/Cry About Who The Next President Is Thread - OB1 - 4th November 2004
Hey even super-conservative Oklahomananins are wisening up! Woo!
And boo to you... BOO , GR... boo.
The Official Celebrate/Cry About Who The Next President Is Thread - Great Rumbler - 4th November 2004
Quote:And boo to you... BOO , GR... boo.
GR: *kills OB1* I take my politics seriously. You remember that next time, okay?
OB1's lifeless corpse: ...[he's dead, remember?]
GR: ...yeah.
The Official Celebrate/Cry About Who The Next President Is Thread - Dark Jaguar - 4th November 2004
Oklahoma has plenty of hardcore Democrats, you see all sorts of Kerry bumper stickers. They just aren't in the majority.
The Official Celebrate/Cry About Who The Next President Is Thread - Great Rumbler - 4th November 2004
Yeah, one of the towns near where I live had lots of Kerry/Edwards yard signs.
The Official Celebrate/Cry About Who The Next President Is Thread - Dark Lord Neo - 4th November 2004
We had a mock federal election in grade 6. The NDP, who are the smallest of the major parties won 3/4 of the votes, the Bloq Quebecouis, who are french sepratists won the next most(there were no French kids in that class) the Canadian Alliance won the next most. The Progressive Conservatives and the Liberals, who are the only parties who have ever actually formed the federal government didn't get any votes.
The junior high school near hear had a mock election last year, they used real ballots and ballot booths too(we use only paper ballets in canada, no puch cards or anything). THis was just a normal public school though. All our schools recive funding based ont he number of students, and the funding is spread on a province wide basis, so it doesn't matter if the school is in an affluent area or not.
The Official Celebrate/Cry About Who The Next President Is Thread - A Black Falcon - 4th November 2004
Paper ballots, or optical scan (where you connect the arrow and then put it in the machine which reads the vote)? We've got optical scan here...
The Official Celebrate/Cry About Who The Next President Is Thread - Great Rumbler - 4th November 2004
In Oklahoma we have the optical scan where you connect the arrow. It seems to work well, so why do other places use really complicated methods that mess up all the time?
The Official Celebrate/Cry About Who The Next President Is Thread - A Black Falcon - 4th November 2004
Um... touch screens allow better voting for blind people? Other than that I have no idea...
The Official Celebrate/Cry About Who The Next President Is Thread - OB1 - 4th November 2004
Dark Jaguar Wrote:Oklahoma has plenty of hardcore Democrats, you see all sorts of Kerry bumper stickers. They just aren't in the majority.
Yeah right, I've seen some of the stuff your so-called democratic senator hopeful said and he's as conservative as the republicans over here. And 66%! 66!