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+--- Thread: Who has the Zelda bonus disc? (/showthread.php?tid=223)
Who has the Zelda bonus disc? - OB1 - 18th February 2003
Well I certainly didn't notice any problems when I played OoT emulated on a PC at a much higher framerate than 30 fps.
Who has the Zelda bonus disc? - Dark Jaguar - 18th February 2003
Well as I said, it was just a theory as to why there may have been a problem.
Who has the Zelda bonus disc? - OB1 - 18th February 2003
But you've played emulated N64 games, right? You know what I'm talking about.
Who has the Zelda bonus disc? - lazyfatbum - 18th February 2003
I think it's as simple as the game's engine was never meant to push 60 fps. On an emulated game running off a PC it could have used tricks since it does everything through the CPU. Such as compensating by not displaying particles in certain effects or other such filters (like the anti-alias filter), and instead just give the illusion of it. Emulators also offer frame-skipping, which is another illusion that gives the impression of the game running at a higher frame rate.
If Link is completely modeled and programmed on the basis of N64 architecture running at 30 fps then I doubt he would look very nice in 60 since he's motion captured and programmed to respond in a 30 fps environment. Games like PD, B~T and Jet Force Gemini have the ability to run at 60, there's no lock. And do you remember Super Mario Sunshine was supposed to run at 60, but because of jitters in the frame rate it was locked down to 30. But Zelda: OoT was NEVER meant to run at 60. So in the end I guess it was decided by NCL to release Master Quest without reprograming all the models to work in a 60 fps environment. Although they could have done so... but then it wouldn't be a free game. :D
I'm still stuck in the second dungeon too.... *is sucking* how are you supposed to light that damn torch anyway?? That reminds me, remember the glitch in OoT where you would smack your Deku Stick against a wall or fence and then fall down while still holding the broken Deku Stick? You would be able to use the broken stick against enemies and it would last forever (and is twice as strong as your sword). Well it would seem that this glitch happens ALOT in Master Quest... not that i'm complaining. :D
Who has the Zelda bonus disc? - Dark Jaguar - 18th February 2003
Haha, it's the power of NATURE! Behold as I cast various spells from the world of nature! Thorns entrap and entangle! Gravity bring forth your strength! Meteors of Heaven, unleash thy fury! Small bundle of deku sticks, smack the enemy around!
Okay, well I do believe lazy is in fact correct there. No OB1, in fact I haven't used an N64 emulator, except once on my dad's machine looking at OOT (it looked quite terrible and Zelda's hair shot straight into heaven for about 2 lightyears). My old machine most assuredly couldn't even begin to do that right, while on my new machine I haven't thought of any reason to do that. Little kids coming over wanting to play games hardly ever want to touch my N64 so I have no reason to use an emulator (that's why I Have them, in case someone wants to play some SNES game while I'm playing some other game). I just kinda gave it up, but now that I think about I'm sure there's plenty of little tricks to be able to fake 60 FPS. Though, from what I understand it seems certain effects are given up to do that. To be honest I wouldn't want to give up a single particle effect just for improved frame rate. As I said, it's nothing noticable.
Who has the Zelda bonus disc? - A Black Falcon - 18th February 2003
I've played N64 roms. While they look sharper than they do on a real N64, for some reason they seem to look better on the real thing... I don't know why, really, but even though the TV is lower resolution and fuzzy it looks nicer on that in general... probably because the games are meant to be low rez and fuzzy. I have no idea what framerate they're running at though... same as the n64, I imagine...
Oh, and DJ... get on MSN within an hour for your chance to play some war3 for the first time with us. :)
Who has the Zelda bonus disc? - OB1 - 18th February 2003
Quote:Games like PD, B~T and Jet Force Gemini have the ability to run at 60, there's no lock. And do you remember Super Mario Sunshine was supposed to run at 60, but because of jitters in the frame rate it was locked down to 30. But Zelda: OoT was NEVER meant to run at 60.
Pardon my ignorance, but how do you know that?
Who has the Zelda bonus disc? - Private Hudson - 18th February 2003
Quote:Originally posted by A Black Falcon
It was a problem in Pikmin, too... annoying...
You had more than enough time in Pikmin to complete the quest within 30 days. Even if you wanted to take a few days off and have fun, and improve your Pikmin army, you still would finish the game with a couple of days left over.
Unless you're a retard. :shake:
And framerate is very important to me. Far more than any other graphical effect. But 30 seconds is adequate, as long as it's fully stable. 60 is preferred (and should be standard).
Who has the Zelda bonus disc? - A Black Falcon - 18th February 2003
I only rented Pikmin, and didn't finish it in 5 days (it bored me when I played it a lot and after 2 or 3 days I mostly stopped playing it...), but still... timed games are annoying. In that one, the problem would be if I ran out of time... I would NOT want to have to start over!
Who has the Zelda bonus disc? - OB1 - 18th February 2003
I didn't have any problem with the time limit in MM since it made things very challenging and interesting, but in Pikmin it was a bit of a pain in the arse because you couldn't really explore much.
Who has the Zelda bonus disc? - lazyfatbum - 18th February 2003
I dont know for a fact, just an educated guess since the N64 isn't designed to show 60 fps when games rely heavily on it's CPU for intensive graphics (such as in OoT). PD, B~T, JFG and others from Rare I do know for a fact since they said so in interviews when confronted about the fabled frame rate issues.
Interestingly enough I was just talking to some PC tech-heads today about creating a "Nintendo 64 card" for a PC. Which would be just that, a graphics card that runs on N64 architecture with increased RAM and more importantly, it's own 2.2 Ghz CPU to boost the N64's custom job, along with some suave C++ skills. The end result should be interesting but the cost makes the experiment seem outlandish. Hopefully we can find a way to get credit for it at school and maybe even get the hardware for free. It would be cool to have though... just pop in any cart and run it at high res with the highest available frame rate... and then play against people online..... :D:D:D:D:D:D *masturbates*
I also found out a few days ago that half the people working at Skywalker Sound are Fullsail Grads. How's that for an ego boost? :D
Who has the Zelda bonus disc? - Laser Link - 18th February 2003
I don't know the intracacies of graphics programming yet OB1, but at leas tI know that fact. I know better than to complain about the lazy developers now. I used to do that all the time, until I found out that it's so much more difficult than you think it is. And I'm sure you think it is hard.
Well, let me explain. using a tool like OpenGL or DirectX it's real easy to make something simple. I recently made a 3D polygonal table and let you rotate the camera aroudn it- that was my first hw project. It sounds hard, but it's really not. But now actually doing something that doesn't look stupid is the fun part.
Nintendo didn't use Maya for OoT, as Maya was not even released until 1998. They did use Maya for the animation in WW (I saw a press release in December), but OoT is a completely different ballgame. For all I know, they programmed each animation in the way I know how to do it (the slow, hard, beginner way) with hardcoded matrix transformations. It wouldn't be too much of a stretch to have different functions called depending on Link's actions, and have those take care of any animation. But it would be an UGLY job to make these transformations, believe me.
I know you probably don't have a clue what I'm talking about there, and you really shouldn't. Nobody without a programming and math background would. Just consider it a small case in point that we don't really know anything about what these guys do. You can't get a job at Nintendo unless you are good and have a lot of experience, unless you went to school specifically for a game degree. In which case, you have experience and a lot of info on how to do this the right way. But the bottom line is that they know what they are doing.
Who has the Zelda bonus disc? - The Former DMiller - 18th February 2003
Hehe, I can't believe everything I've learned in college actually helps me understand what everyone is talking about. Who knew? :) Anyway, I'd chime in, but I always screw up on some mundane detail when talking tech so I won't even try.
Who has the Zelda bonus disc? - OB1 - 18th February 2003
I didn't think that Nintendo used Maya for OoT, but I suggested that lazy would know more about this than the rest of us put together since he actually uses professional 3D animation programs at his school, with Maya being one of them.
Who has the Zelda bonus disc? - Private Hudson - 18th February 2003
Quote:Originally posted by OB1
I didn't have any problem with the time limit in MM since it made things very challenging and interesting, but in Pikmin it was a bit of a pain in the arse because you couldn't really explore much.
There was nothing to explore. Other than finding the bonus items for your ship, which you certainly had enough time to do.
You could basically cover the ENTIRE world (or what the game lets you see of it) within about 25 days. And in hindsight, whenever I opened up a section, I would spend the first day on that section exploring (finding where to go, how to get there, etc. etc.) So you COULD explore, with plenty of time.
What need is there to explore more than that?
And even IF you wanted to, you COULD in the unlockable challenge mode, afterwards.
Who has the Zelda bonus disc? - OB1 - 19th February 2003
Putting a time limit in Pikmin was a bad idea, especially considering how short it is.
Who has the Zelda bonus disc? - Private Hudson - 19th February 2003
Putting a time limit in Pikmin was a great idea.
If it had no time limit, it would have been the easiest game ever created.
And it's not as though the time limit imedes your play at all, as I showed above. Unless of course, you ARE retarded. All it does is stop people from spending their first few days amassing an unbeatable army. And whenever you came up to a boss, just spend a few days building up your troops, etc. You'd finish the game without any hint of trouble at all. This way you had to THINK about what you were doing. Don't just send a couple dozen guys after a boss and see how it goes. Plan, and strategize.
Who has the Zelda bonus disc? - A Black Falcon - 19th February 2003
You seriously think it was a great idea? Really? I can't disagree more... all it does is cause unnecessary frusteration and tension... even worse in some respects than Zelda - MM because in that you'd only have to redo 2 or 3 hours of gameplay, while redoing Pikmin if you run out of time would take quite a while...
Did I like the game during rental? Yeah... it was fun. As I said though, after a few days I got bored... its the kind of game that would take me quite a while to beat if I owned because I'd go through it pretty slowly... it wasn't intresting enough to try to finish in 5 days. The gameplay is repetitive... and the timelimit annoying and causes a lot more tension than really is enjoyable in a game.
What should they have done? Not had a timelimit and actually made the game longer and somewhat tougher... or have temporary timelimits in missions or something, just not one for the whole game, so you would be able to take the game as slowly as you wanted overall... but no timelimit and a longer game would be much, much better. And more fun... though time was hardly the biggest problem I had with Pikmin, it sure didn't help.
Who has the Zelda bonus disc? - The Former DMiller - 19th February 2003
Well, seeing as you didn't play much of Pikmin lends a little less credibility to your arguement. It really was hard to not finish the game given the time limit because you didn't need to collect all 30 parts to beat the game. You probably didn't know that because you don't find that out until later in the game. Personally, I liked the tension that the time limit added to Pikmin. Whenever I entered a new level I would check out the map to see where the parts were and then pick out 2 or 3 I wanted to check out. All you had to do was collect 1 part a day and you would have all 30 parts, which wasn't even necessary to beat the game, and collecting 1 part a day is pretty easy to do even if you want to explore. You can spend half the day exploring and growing Pikmin, and the other half collecting a part.
Who has the Zelda bonus disc? - A Black Falcon - 19th February 2003
Like I said, it wasn't just time that made me not like it... I just found it somewhat uninteresting and inherently boring. Its a decent game, but not what I'd expect from a Nintendo first party title... it wasn't as good or as intresting as most of those, to me.
Oh, and obviously its been a while since I played it, but I do remember that I didn't have as many parts as the number of days that had passed... I was a few behind, I'm pretty sure. Though I probably will never know for sure unless I find the game for really cheap...
Who has the Zelda bonus disc? - OB1 - 19th February 2003
Hey I love Pikmin. I also love Majora's Mask. But I do agree with ABF that Nintendo should have made Pikmin difficult in a different way other than putting a time limit on it. The game is already extremely short so a time limit only makes things worse. If it were a longer game I wouldn't have a problem with the time limit. But since it's not I believe that they should have figured out a different way to make it challenging.
Who has the Zelda bonus disc? - WhiteFleck - 19th February 2003
Pikmin 2 should have a world editor. Granted, they wouldn't be lush environments or anything, but it'd be fun to challenge friends and stuff. Add in triggers and one'd be set.
Who has the Zelda bonus disc? - OB1 - 19th February 2003
And multiplayer! Multiplayer is essential. Online play would be even better, but what are the chances of that happening?
Who has the Zelda bonus disc? - Dark Jaguar - 19th February 2003
I dunno... Split screened strategy games are duller than something incredibly dull. When you can see every single thing the enemy is doing, well, I guess the best comparison (as far as suckiness) is how like in DK64's multiplayer whenever you hurt someone they could way too easily escape and just refill their health.
However, system linked play, THAT is something that would rock. They could do it the exact same way MS does it with the XBox. Simply use the broadband adapter like MS's broadband port to link together the systems via a hub (or using a special hook up cable to reverse the hookup like the XBox's system link cable, in fact that same cable could probably be used here), and then set up the game to support that kind of link up. Boom, and then after that, Gamespy just needs to make some tunnel software for the 'Cube and we get pseudo online play!
Who has the Zelda bonus disc? - A Black Falcon - 19th February 2003
Yes, at the absolute minimum Nintendo REALLY should start including system link... it would be great... I mean the LAN spoofing part, not the actual linking system, which I doubt happens much... :)
Who has the Zelda bonus disc? - WhiteFleck - 19th February 2003
Split-screen Pikmin would blow, being that the pikmin are small enough BEFORE shrinking the screen. However, I like the idea of system-link and internet multiplay. Who's up for an all out pikmin war? I don't think I'd mind having poorly rendered pikmin if I got to see a couple thousand of them swarming each other. It'd be like the intro to LotR:FotR, only without the cool armor and weapons.
Who has the Zelda bonus disc? - Weltall - 19th February 2003
I got it but I haven't had the chance to play it yet.
Who has the Zelda bonus disc? - Sacred Jellybean - 20th February 2003
I started a game on Master Quest... and damn, although I'm a bit rusty, it's still pretty challenging. I died in the Deku Tree, for god's sake! The DEKU TREE!
But it's still very fun, and I'm enjoying it. I may go play more right now...
Who has the Zelda bonus disc? - The Former DMiller - 20th February 2003
Ahaha! You died in the Deku Tree! You suck! Ahaha! Actually, I was pretty close to dying in there too but I made it out. I have yet to die playing Master Quest.
Who has the Zelda bonus disc? - Sacred Jellybean - 20th February 2003
By the by, is the music in the Deku Tree in the Master Quest supposed to be different from that in the Normal Quest? I don't remember it being the same music as that in the little subterranial areas...
Who has the Zelda bonus disc? - Sacred Jellybean - 20th February 2003
stfu :(
Who has the Zelda bonus disc? - The Former DMiller - 20th February 2003
I've heard a lot of people saying they think some of the music in Master Quest is different, but I think that's just because people haven't played the game in so long. The music doesn't sound any different to me.
Who has the Zelda bonus disc? - Dark Jaguar - 20th February 2003
Well, I just beat normal quest, and I can say all the music is exactly the same as before (except the fire temple, the voices were changed to some weird synth instrument). As far as Master Quest, I've only beaten the Deku Tree (though pretty soon I'll start on that mode and get further), but I can say that it's music is the same as well. Try plugging in the N64 one and compairing yourself. Since lazy is a music buff, I'm sure he would have certainly noticed a music difference when he had both games playing at once on his TV (assuming he had both game's audio also playing on it). Hey lazy, do you happen to have a surround sound system yet? I've been hearing all my console games in full rich mono for years on end.
And now, to report on a small glitch at the end of the game. Actually, it's the exact same glitch that happened with Final Fantasy 6's ending. Essentially, the scenes are loading too fast for the music, so during the party you start noticing that the music is slightly askew of the scenes it's supposed to match. It's less noticable than FF6, but it's there and apparent to those who so remember the original.
Anyway, aside from that, some minor skipping of music during what I assume are load times (like when you pause the game), the weird blood color glitch (which only applies to the blood drops by the way, the blood bubbles for underwater things and the blood on all the various textures that have it are unaffected, which is something that could be assumed anyway) which seems quite weird when you see Ganondorf coughing up something more like puke than blood (oh well, it still works, in fact blue blood fits for Jabu Jabu since a lot of sea creatures have copper based blood, which is in fact blue since there's no iron to react with the oxygen and make red, and as for green blood, well it is a glitch after all, what can one expect), and some visible lines and textures looking a little worse due to the higher res, this game runs pretty much perfectly.
Now then, for the next GCN Zelda game to be announced, with it's preorder disk, Majora's Mask (possibly with it's own master quest, and less importantly, 3 save slots since there's no excuse not to have them now).
Who has the Zelda bonus disc? - Dark Jaguar - 20th February 2003
Oh nuts, they removed the little easter egg at the end of the game! The one where your scarecrow's song is played in 5 different instruments. I think it's only a 5 minute wait, I'm sure I waited that long by now.
Oh well, time to post your scarecrow's song!
Mine is A.........down........left.up...down...up...right...A.........
The periods indicate how long I held down each button, with the last being held the duration of the note as a reference. Well, I think it's mysterious in a very made of straw kind of way.
Who has the Zelda bonus disc? - EdenMaster - 20th February 2003
Does...Does Ganondorf still have a mullet like he did in the end of the first OoT?
Who has the Zelda bonus disc? - Dark Lord Neo - 20th February 2003
My stupid little brother kept deleting my origional OOT file so I never actually finished the game, but I've seent he ending, but now he's not alowed to touch my memory card so this game will be safe
Oh and X-Box linked play doesn't require a router, it only requires a ethernet cable when you are hooking together 2 systems. More than 2 though do require a hub or router
Who has the Zelda bonus disc? - OB1 - 20th February 2003
That is correct. I used to link mine and my llittle brother's X-Boxes and play Halo before I sold it.
Who has the Zelda bonus disc? - Dark Jaguar - 20th February 2003
I know it doesn't require a router for just two player gameplay, BUT it does need some special version of the ethernet cable that reverses the signal, at least it does in Halo.
Mullet?
Who has the Zelda bonus disc? - OB1 - 20th February 2003
Nope, all you need is a regular CAT-5 cable.
Who has the Zelda bonus disc? - Dark Jaguar - 20th February 2003
I was using an RJ-45 cable, which is what I use for everything ethernet around here, and it didn't work.
So then, is CAT-5 the same thing or is it a "reversed" cable?
Who has the Zelda bonus disc? - OB1 - 20th February 2003
RJ-45 cables are the standard network cables that you'd find at Best Buy, etc. They're actually just CAT-5 cables with RJ-45 connecters, which is the kind of cable that you connect from a computer to a cable modem. If you're using a hub then you'd want to use straight-thru cables (the same that you'd use to connect a computer to a cable modem), but if you want to connect two computers together you'd have to use a crossover cable. The only difference between the two kinds of cables are the wiring of the connectors; they look identical to each other. I was pretty certain that I simply needed a regular straight-thru cable, but on second though I think it might have been a crossover cable.
Who has the Zelda bonus disc? - Dark Jaguar - 20th February 2003
Which is actually EXACTLY what I meant when I said "reversed" cable.
Who has the Zelda bonus disc? - OB1 - 20th February 2003
Okay.
Who has the Zelda bonus disc? - Private Hudson - 21st February 2003
Quote:Originally posted by OB1
Hey I love Pikmin. I also love Majora's Mask. But I do agree with ABF that Nintendo should have made Pikmin difficult in a different way other than putting a time limit on it. The game is already extremely short so a time limit only makes things worse. If it were a longer game I wouldn't have a problem with the time limit. But since it's not I believe that they should have figured out a different way to make it challenging.
Simply making it tougher would have been plain stupid. It would have been undescribably boring to simply use every second day refilling your army to maximum size and power just to go take on a new ship part/boss.
The game has an unrequited charm to it, which needn't be altered in any way.
Online co-operative play would be sweet sweet candy, though. Or even split screen co-op. Any sort of deathmatch would be ruined by split-screen (although it did work relatively fine in KKn'D on the PSX).
And a world editor??? Oh man, UNLIMITED replay value. Can't wait.
Who has the Zelda bonus disc? - Dark Jaguar - 21st February 2003
PH, you have a good point, split screen co-op is actually good since knowing what the other guy is doing is something you are able to do anyway during coop. So, adding that in just for those who want to use one screen for co-op would be a good thing then.
Who has the Zelda bonus disc? - OB1 - 21st February 2003
Quote:Simply making it tougher would have been plain stupid. It would have been undescribably boring to simply use every second day refilling your army to maximum size and power just to go take on a new ship part/boss.
The game has an unrequited charm to it, which needn't be altered in any way.
It's only stupid in your mind because you have a very limited imagination. There are several different ways that they could have made Pikmin more difficult and take away the time limit while still making it work. But like I said before, the time limit would have been alright if the game were longer or had more replay value. I love the game, but it's just too short.
Who has the Zelda bonus disc? - Private Hudson - 21st February 2003
Quote:Originally posted by OB1
It's only stupid in your mind because you have a very limited imagination. There are several different ways that they could have made Pikmin more difficult and take away the time limit while still making it work. But like I said before, the time limit would have been alright if the game were longer or had more replay value. I love the game, but it's just too short.
Ok..
Name some ways that the game would be more 'difficult', and would not be overcome by simply building up your army of Pikmin for a day, then tackling the difficulty.
Who has the Zelda bonus disc? - Dark Jaguar - 21st February 2003
Hmmm...
I got one! Penelize for having lots of pikmin (WC3 has this sort of thing set up by an upkeep tax system for having large armies), OR you could limit the number of pikmin that could survive to some challenge. Then again, that just killed the fun of controlling a massive army...
Nah, I think the best solution would be to keep the time limit but to make the game longer.
Please note that I'm dead tired right now. *blows a kiss* goodnight everybody!, no relation, and a yackety shmackety
Who has the Zelda bonus disc? - MgL - 21st February 2003
My disc fiinally came in yesterday and I have to say I am impressed. The music in the menu screen is sweet and the movies included within the disc are awesome. It is sweet to look at Zelda:TWW and F-Zero on my TV screen. It is almost as if I was playing them both. This is definetly a step up from the shit promo disc that came out a month or two ago. Btw does anyone know how much 1 file and 15 blocks are? I don't understand this memory system. Anyway I started Master Quest without the ability to save and I can't believe I thought this game looked awesome only 4-5 years ago... Time hasn't been too nice to this game. Oh well...
Who has the Zelda bonus disc? - Dark Jaguar - 21st February 2003
Just plug in a memory card with 15 blocks free and you can save. Okay, the memory system is pretty much as easy to understand as a PC's memory system. A block is the smallest amount of data a file is allowed to take up. A file is a collection of blocks of data. So all files are made of blocks. Nothing hard there at all.
The comparison is this. 59 blocks = 512 KB.