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Bethesda Grabs Fallout - Printable Version +- Tendo City (https://www.tendocity.net) +-- Forum: Tendo City: Metropolitan District (https://www.tendocity.net/forumdisplay.php?fid=4) +--- Forum: Tendo City (https://www.tendocity.net/forumdisplay.php?fid=42) +--- Thread: Bethesda Grabs Fallout (/showthread.php?tid=2038) Pages:
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Bethesda Grabs Fallout - A Black Falcon - 12th July 2004 Good news, mostly. On the good side, Fallout lives. On the bad side, it's not a Black Isle-influenced developer -- it's Bethesda, makers of The Elder Scrolls, not Troika (main developer is the creator of the first Fallout. Makers of Arcanum and The Temple of Elemental Evil.), Obsidian (mostly escapees of Black Isle's other team (IWD, Torment), working on KOTOR II), Bioware, or, maybe, InXile (the founder of Interplay's new company... but not so much BIS people...). So that means that it'll be different... I wonder how much it'll end up playing like Fallout. Great, great RPG... I hope it stays like it is! But, reading this, that's unlikely. I doubt it'll be isometric, for sure, and turn-based combat? I wouldn't bet much on it. But I think that Fallout with realtime combat wouldn't be the same Fallout so I really, really hope that they keep a turnbased combat system. Oh, and being the TES developers they'll have to work on making a coherent and not too long story. Fallout always has had a large open-ended element but it has also had a good main story to follow... TES doesn't exactly match up in that category. Quote:July 12, 2004 - In an move sure to bring sizzling joy to PC gamers everywhere, Bethesda Softworks has just announced that it has obtained the rights to develop and publish Fallout 3, as well as additional games in the Fallout franchise, on the PC and across all consoles. The company obtained the rights from Interplay, the original home of the lauded post-apocalyptic RPG series. Quote:July 12, 2004 - As our readers likely already know, Bethesda Softworks has just announced that it will develop and publish Fallout 3, as well as possible future Fallout titles, finally reinvigorating a PC RPG franchise which had too long remained dormant. Bethesda Grabs Fallout - A Black Falcon - 13th July 2004 Exactly as I expected, the hardcore Fallout fans aren't exactly thrilled. This just came out yesterday and already they are up in arms... http://www.nma-fallout.com Bethesda Grabs Fallout - A Black Falcon - 14th July 2004 I'm sure SOMEONE here cares about this. This sure should help with their fears... ![]() What will upset Fallout fans? Let's see. -Not definitely turn-based (maybe more action-ish combat?). -probably third person, not isometric -Troika or Obsidian didn't win the liscence. -Little use of Black Isle's Fallout 3 assets (from their mostly-finished Fallout 3 project canned early this year). -also coming to consoles, probably. These are all legitimate concerns. Oh, Fallout 3 will probably be a good game, but will it be a good Fallout game or a good TES game with a Fallout skin tossed over it? http://www.gamespot.com/news/2004/07/13/news_6102442.html Quote:Q&A: Fallout 3 executive producer Todd Howard Bethesda Grabs Fallout - Smoke - 21st July 2004 I told you there's a God. Bethesda Grabs Fallout - A Black Falcon - 21st July 2004 I do think that this is good news. But like the hardcore Fallout fans (I'm not really one, but Fallout is a great game), I'm cautious... TES is a great series, but it's quite different from Fallout. I really want it to stay isometric, but that seems quite unlikely because first-person is Bethesda's strength, not isometric... that could be a major issue. How well would Fallout work in first-person? It'd have to have some kind of third-person combat... Fallout with action-style combat like TES would NOT work. It has to be slower and strategic. Turnbased ideally, though a pausable realtime or something like that could work too... but NOT hack and slash! That just isn't Fallout. Bethesda also really needs to work on story and focus for this, TES hasn't been too good with keeping up great storytelling or with any semblance of focus in the game. Yes, Fallout is open-ended, but there's also a clear and compelling main story to be following. I hope they succeed at it. They have some definite issues to work over, but I think they can do it... but it'll never please everyone, of course. And I wouldn't be too surprised if they make some compromises towards what Bethesda does well that don't sit too well with Fallout fans. But either way, this is a lot better than nothing... Bethesda Grabs Fallout - Smoke - 21st July 2004 Somehow I don't think Fallout 3 will be as "mature". Daggerfall was but I think the fact they're planning to put it on consoles will change matters. Still it's better than nothing, right? Bethesda Grabs Fallout - A Black Falcon - 21st July 2004 "Mature"... that's a good question. I don't know. I'd love for it to be like Fallout 1... that has adult content, but in an adult fashion. I know it got everything wrong, but the console Fallout: Brotherhood of Steel is also a great example here. The geniouses who thought that Fallout would make a good action-RPG also thought "mature" meant "let's see how many swear words we can cram into our game"... I don't want it to be mature in THAT sense. But I do wish it'd be M-rated if that means that it would have some of the stuff that they include in the two main Fallout games. It'd be too bad to have it neutered... however, I think most of it could fit in without TOO much change. They are M-rated but not for nudity or huge amounts of swearing so the stuff it does have seems to be stuff that they might get into a T-rated game if they cut some... I think they can get across the essence of Fallout. Though it would be better if they didn't compromise. Consoles. Another great issue. VERY bad idea from a sensible standpoint, but very good one from a cash flow standpoint, so it's inevitable. But... Fallout for consoles? You couldn't do that and have it be like Fallout... you have to console-ize the control scheme. Which can work, as KOTOR and Morrowind prove, but you then, usually, have to make some compromises for the control scheme on PC too. And it goes beyond that... it hints towards a combat system less like Fallout, for sure, and that'd be a real tragedy. Bethesda Grabs Fallout - Great Rumbler - 21st July 2004 Quote:I really want it to stay isometric What's the big deal about hardcore Fallout fans and isometric view points? Bethesda Grabs Fallout - A Black Falcon - 21st July 2004 Not just Fallout. I prefer strategic RPGs to be isometric. Or if you do have a 3d camera, have it far out. I just think that it works far, far better for RPGs. Probably a big part of that is because the first RPG I truly loved was Baldur's Gate (if you don't count Quest for Glory), and that's a isometric, pausable-realtime game. And from the rest of the Infinity Engine games to Fallout 1 and 2, Interplay proved that it was the master of isometric RPGs. Now its spinoffs do the same -- Troika (run by the guy who made Fallout) with Arcanum and Greyhawk: The Temple of Elemental Evil, for instance. Obsidian (from the people behind Torment and Icewind Dale)? They're doing something they are very familiar with by making a game in an engine made by Bioware... :) Okay, that game's more third person behind than isometric. But it's still third person. For a classic example, how about Betrayal at Krondor (a good example that everyone should have played because it's been free since 1997)? First-person in the adventuring, with the party all moving as one like in Might & Magic or Wizardry, but once you get into combat it moves to a third-person view... and makes for better combat than Wizardry had, I'd say. Now... there HAVE been serious RPGs that run all in first-person. See the aforementioned Might & Magic or Wizardry serieses. But the real concern here is that Bethesda's RPGs don't have combat inspired by Wizardry. They have a very fast-paced, simplistic combat system that is pretty much hack and slash. And that'd be a disaster in Fallout. Just like it would be in Baldur's Gate (... okay, Baldur's Gate: Dark Alliance wasn't a disaster, but compared to real BG it doesn't come close to comparing...). How 'bout first-person Final Fantasy where the combat system involves walking up to enemies and hitting the attack button, while casting spells sometime (okay, a simplification of TES combat. But you get the idea.)? On another subject, I was hoping Smoke would show up because he's the only other real PC RPG fan here... :) Bethesda Grabs Fallout - Dark Jaguar - 21st July 2004 <img src="http://www.penny-arcade.com/images/2004/20040714l.jpg"> Bethesda Grabs Fallout - A Black Falcon - 21st July 2004 Not ALL the rights... Interplay can still make that MMORPG-that-will-never-come-out... :D Bethesda Grabs Fallout - OB1 - 22nd July 2004 Why on earth do you weirdos want it to stay isometric? A 3D fallout would be amazing. It wouldn't have to be in first-person, you know. Bethesda Grabs Fallout - A Black Falcon - 22nd July 2004 And you know what? Isometric doesn't preclude the use of 3D, OB1. For evidence of that, see Greyhawk: Temple of Elemental Evil (3D characters, 2d/rendered background maps) or the killed-in-action Black Isle Fallout 3 ("Van Buren"), which had a 3d engine but looked really great and did a fantastic job of looking like classic Fallout. I'm not saying it has to be sprites... I'm saying that it has to be third person, and preferably third person and upwards, not behind the character. For battles at least -- that's what the Betrayal at Krondor example is there for. Bethesda Grabs Fallout - OB1 - 23rd July 2004 If the camera is at an isometric perspective then it has the same limitations of a 2D game, which would be dumb. Playing from a behind-the-character perspective in a game like Fallout where you have this great world that's just begging to be explored changes the game dramatically. Just look at the GTA series. GTA 3 plays pretty much the same as GTAs 1 & 2, but the shift of perspective made the experience completely different. Bethesda Grabs Fallout - A Black Falcon - 23rd July 2004 Fine for the exploration, but it'd have to pull to overhead for combat for the combat to be much like Fallout, I'd expect... unless you're suggesting something like KOTOR? As in KOTOR uses the same basic combat system as Baldur's Gate but moves it to behind-the-character and not isometric so it plays quite differently... still, I think that overhead works much, much better for strategic combat like Fallout has to have to be Fallout. And it really should be turn-based! Realtime (even pausable realtime) Fallout wouldn't be the same... On a related note, I played the Greyhawk: ToEE demo. Very interesting... first turnbased PC D&D game I've played. I know that as a pen and paper game it's turnbased, but BG made it pausable realtime to speed up combat a lot. Getting used to the turnbased system takes time... I keep trying to move weaker characters or injured guys out of the way before the enemy can attack but not being able to because it's their turn... slower and more deliberate than BG, but very good. And quite probably more strategic than BG, because it forces you to deal with movement as a component of attacks ('how far can i move this turn and still attack', the 5-foot step, etc... adds a lot of components of the boardgame back in. BG is faster playing (even if you pause a lot it's still faster), and also very strategic in its combat, but ToEE's system is great. And truer to real D&D... though I think it's good that some games do the realtime combat too. Unlike this, I'm used to it. :) Bethesda Grabs Fallout - OB1 - 23rd July 2004 If you really need to have it pull back for combat then that would be very easy to do. Bethesda Grabs Fallout - A Black Falcon - 23rd July 2004 OB1, I know you've played realtime D20 with KOTOR, but I doubt you've tried it in turnbased... play the ToEE demo. It's intresting and quite a change of pace from Bioware's familiar style of D&D RPG... though not so much that it's unplayable. Just takes a little getting used to. I'd say play a Infinity-engine demo, but none of those games HAVE demos, so a little problem there... :D Same with Fallout, as far as I know. Or Fallout. What I mean is that if you haven't seen what kind of combat this is (and while ToEE isn't a perfect comparison to Fallout (party vs. single character being the biggest difference), it's not that bad... which should be somewhat expected when the same guy was the main person behind both titles...) you can't really judge what mode of displaying it is best. http://www.atarisupport.com/newfaq/dungeonsdragonsthetempleofelementalevil.php?browser=1&pageDisplay=DOWNLOADS Bethesda Grabs Fallout - OB1 - 23rd July 2004 What does that have to do with pulling back a camera during combat. Behind-the-character view for walking around, pull back for combat. Simple. Bethesda Grabs Fallout - A Black Falcon - 23rd July 2004 These are the two BIS Fallout 3 screens that came out after its cancellation. ![]() ![]() Now THAT is doing 3D Fallout great. Dead on. What I'm worrying about is what Bethesda will do. TES' combat is so different from Fallout... so simple and arcadish, compared to the much more complex turn-based system at work in Fallout. I would never want to see Fallout play like that. Graphics... 3d isn't bad if they do it right, but it's got to look like Fallout! For Fallout I think the best choice would be a fixed-camera (maybe some raising/lowering it too) overhead view. Like Fallout 3-BIS had. Or Warcraft III or Conquest in the RTS genre. But this game will not have that. This will have a first or third-person (behind the character) camera. As Bethesda said, they'll do what they're good at... and that is first person. But first person Fallout... it just seems so wrong... and it'll have a high chance of losing some of Fallout's unique character. Of course for that plenty of other things will too... Anyway. In Fallout, when an enemy comes on screen the game pauses. The character with higher initiative gets to go. You can move some and do actions, with a limited number of action points per turn. If it was realtime it'd lose some of the strategy... unless it was a pausable realtime, in which case it'd be close. Faster playing, but close. But that also runs best from isometric... :( I mean, have you ever seen a first-person game with turnbased combat? Me either... Bethesda Grabs Fallout - OB1 - 23rd July 2004 Dude, you have have different cameras for walking and action. Yeesh. Bethesda Grabs Fallout - A Black Falcon - 23rd July 2004 *sigh*... I give up on you, you don't seem to be listening to what I'm saying. Bethesda Grabs Fallout - OB1 - 26th July 2004 I listened, and concluded that you are dumb. Bethesda Grabs Fallout - A Black Falcon - 26th July 2004 You have not shown that you really know what I am talking about... and just repeating yourself won't convince me of that. Have you ever played a (strategic) turnbased PC RPG? A PC Interplay-style RPG (as in other than KOTOR for X-Box)? I haven't heard you say yes to either question. And that lowers your credibility on the issue. Yes, a first-person view camera and a battle mode where you (either as option or as only choice) go to a third-person(-and-above, hopefully) view to control your character could work. It'd be kind of confusing though because I'd expect a first-person view (or a close-behind third person view, same thing) to control with the keyboard (which works far better for such systems) and a third-person turnbased combat system is made for mice... it has the potential to be a hassle if not done really well. Or if combat is too often... make it (relatively) infrequent and it works well, like Betryal at Krondor (you really should play that game, given how it's free and all and works well in DOSBox...). Anyway, it's not that simple. And as I've said many times you also have to consider what Bethesda is good at and what they might do. They are good at first-person. I have yet to hear any way that Fallout could work as a true Fallout RPG in first-person, so I think my concern on the issue is very well founded. Bethesda Grabs Fallout - OB1 - 26th July 2004 Of course I've played Fallout. Not for very long, but I've played it. Pretty twisted game though... And what's with this first-person stuff? I never said it'd have to be FP. Bethesda Grabs Fallout - A Black Falcon - 26th July 2004 BECAUSE WE ARE TALKING ABOUT BETHESDA HERE! B-E-T-H-E-S-D-A. Elder Scrolls. Arena, Daggerfall, Morrowind? Ring a bell? Seriously, have you read even a quarter of what I've written, or have you kind of skimmed over it without much of it sinking in like seems to be usual? Quote:Of course I've played Fallout. Not for very long, but I've played it. Pretty twisted game though... Isn't it awesome? Fantastic game! One of the best RPGs out there... Bethesda Grabs Fallout - OB1 - 27th July 2004 Your logic is so damn weird. Just because Bethesda owns the rights to Fallout now doesn't mean they're going to turn it into Morrowind! Did Rockstar turn Read Dead Revolver into a open-ended crime game when they resumed development from Capcom? No! What stupid logic. Bethesda Grabs Fallout - A Black Falcon - 27th July 2004 "Read" the articles post, idiot. Quote:IGNPC: Can we expect something similar to the work done on Morrowind, in terms of that style of game experience? And you act like my concerns have no foundation. Sure, they say they haven't decided anything yet. But things like that seem to hint at the direction they well might take. I posted those interviews for a reason! Bethesda Grabs Fallout - OB1 - 27th July 2004 Well I didn't read it... Bethesda Grabs Fallout - A Black Falcon - 27th July 2004 You often seem to not read things and then react strangely when I base things upon previous statements... read that whole interview! Both of them! It's why I made this thread, after all. :) This is, I think, the latest thing they've said. Quote:Sure, that was a phone interview and he slightly misquoted me. What I said was, "I don't know if we'd suddenly..." This is a good read. It's long, but worth reading, I'd say. http://www.rpgcodex.com/content.php?id=21 Bethesda Grabs Fallout - OB1 - 27th July 2004 Well the truth is that I don't really care... Bethesda Grabs Fallout - A Black Falcon - 27th July 2004 That's a good article that compares (PC) RPG combat systems -- turn-based, real-time, pausable real-time, and phase-based... Bethesda Grabs Fallout - OB1 - 28th July 2004 zzzzzzz..... :p Bethesda Grabs Fallout - A Black Falcon - 28th July 2004 If you like RPGs you should care. Bethesda Grabs Fallout - OB1 - 28th July 2004 I don't like top-down PC RPGs all that much. The perspective takes away from the immersion and leaves me with little motivation to explore the world. Bethesda Grabs Fallout - A Black Falcon - 28th July 2004 That makes no sense at all. Less immersive? Huh? And 2d top-down SNES games are so much more so? You're just biased... Or do RPGs only become immersive when they have cool 3d first-person graphics? If that's what you mean, then you're superficial. :) Oh yeah, and which of such games have you actually PLAYED? You still haven't answered that question! Bethesda Grabs Fallout - OB1 - 28th July 2004 Of course it's less immersive, you'd be crazy to think otherwise. Do you know what to immerse means? Which GTA game makes you feel like you're actually in Liberty City, GTA1 or GTA3? The third one of course, because you're actually seeing your surroundings in three dimensions, from a perspective close to how you'd see it in real life. A high, distant camera angle is just that: distant. It's more realistic and immersive when you see similarly like you would in real life. It makes a gigantic difference in terms of presentation and feel. And I already told you that I played Fallout. Bethesda Grabs Fallout - A Black Falcon - 28th July 2004 But how about immersion with words? Doesn't that count for anything? There are more things to consider than just graphics... Fallout's got that, defintely. As do plenty of other RPGs. Some more so than others of course... but the point is that dismissing a whole genre because of graphics is incredibly stupid. Quote:And I already told you that I played Fallout. I know. Anything else? Anything else by Interplay, Black Isle, Bioware, Troika... the old SSI games... Origin... etc... Bethesda Grabs Fallout - OB1 - 28th July 2004 Who said I'm dismissing the whole genre? The only reason I played Morrowind was because of how open-ended it was, and because of how immersive the world was. Without the immersiveness the open-endedness wouldn't have mattered to me, so with that game the perspective made all the difference. Same goes for GTA 3. I'll play Zelda or FF because of great gameplay or story, and the Fallout games just don't have enough to keep me interested for very long. Bethesda Grabs Fallout - A Black Falcon - 28th July 2004 "Who says I'm dismissing the whole genre? I'm only dismissing 90% of it!!111!" And you completely ignore my point about literary immersion. Torment wasn't utterly engrossing because of the fantastic graphics (they were good, but nothing I hadn't seen before), you know... Fallout isn't on that level (nothing is, of course), but it also definitely provides a lot of immersion with its great story and world. And I think that you're dodging my question about which other games you have played because you haven't played any for any amount of time that can be counted. It's the only explanation I can think of. Bethesda Grabs Fallout - OB1 - 29th July 2004 *sigh* Talking to you is like talking to... well, ABF. That's the worst example I can think of. Sad, huh? Look up the word "immerse" and come back to me. I've played lots of PC RPGs, the Fallouts, Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Knights. Bethesda Grabs Fallout - A Black Falcon - 29th July 2004 Neverwinter Nights is a textbook case of bad camera design, IMO... you SHOULD NOT have to constantly rotate the camera like that! So annoying... if the camera doesn't work well with no user control, the camera is bad. And irritating, to me... I'd have much rather seen it be like Baldur's Gate. Or, if you want 3d, ToEE... with 3d characters but 2d backgrounds... or even 3d backgrounds, if they could have fixed the camera and improved the graphics. Anyway. You are a fool. Quote:im·merse Audio pronunciation of "immerse" ( P ) Pronunciation Key (-mûrs) Yes, I do believe that "immerse" includes such things as being immersed in a work because of its story and literary brilliance. Bethesda Grabs Fallout - OB1 - 29th July 2004 ABF, you are a fucking moron. To immerse yourself into something means to "to plunge into something that surrounds or covers". Obviously, being surrounding by more than just an x and y axis is by definition more immersive. Being immersed into a story is a metaphorical definition of the world, which is most definitely not what I've been talking about. And BTW, KOTOR showed that the Baldur's Gate style of game works wonderfully in three dimensions. Bethesda Grabs Fallout - A Black Falcon - 29th July 2004 Quote:And BTW, KOTOR showed that the Baldur's Gate style of game works wonderfully in three dimensions. True. But Neverwinter Nights showed what not to do. With the exception of the great multiplayer, that is. :) Quote:ABF, you are a fucking moron. To immerse yourself into something means to "to plunge into something that surrounds or covers". Obviously, being surrounding by more than just an x and y axis is by definition more immersive. Being immersed into a story is a metaphorical definition of the world, which is most definitely not what I've been talking about. Very sorry that the definition of the word included the way I was using it... won't let it happen again... Seriously, are you saying that 3d is the most important factor for immersion? I'd completely disagree there. Story is, no question. Graphics are very important, but definitely secondary... or have you never been immersed into the world of a book? Oh, and so you feel this about all console RPGs too? All the ones before 3d are worse because they don't have cool 3d immersiveness? Umm... I thought you were smarter than that... but I guess not. Bethesda Grabs Fallout - OB1 - 29th July 2004 Quote:Very sorry that the definition of the word included the way I was using it... won't let it happen again... I'm not talking about metaphorical immersion, you dolt. I made that very clear. In the case of a top-down or isometric 2D game, 3D is definitely better, absolutely. If you wanted to you could just pull the camera back and restrict your POV. Bethesda Grabs Fallout - A Black Falcon - 29th July 2004 Metaphor? I wasn't really talking about it that way, no. It's not just a metaphor... it's a form of immersion! Quote:In the case of a top-down or isometric 2D game, 3D is definitely better, absolutely. If you wanted to you could just pull the camera back and restrict your POV. So are you saying you like Neverwinter Nights' camera better than Baldur's Gate? If so... :S ... NWN's character models may be better than BG, but the environments? BG wins hands down (the Infinity engine also easily beats Fallout's and it's tile-based graphics too, imo. There's a reason that it lasted through five titles across five years. It's quite good.). And I vastly prefer the camera in BG, as I said, because of how much of a pain it was in NWN... what about you? Bethesda Grabs Fallout - OB1 - 30th July 2004 Quote:Metaphor? I wasn't really talking about it that way, no. It's not just a metaphor... it's a form of immersion! YES--the metaphorical form of it!!! :screwy: Quote:So are you saying you like Neverwinter Nights' camera better than Baldur's Gate? If so... ... Hey guess what, Einstein? Just because NWN had a crappy camera does not mean that all 3D games have crappy cameras. Look at KOTOR, it has a great camera. Bethesda Grabs Fallout - A Black Falcon - 30th July 2004 Quote:Hey guess what, Einstein? Just because NWN had a crappy camera does not mean that all 3D games have crappy cameras. Look at KOTOR, it has a great camera. As I said, the best thing Bioware did in KOTOR was put in a decent camera... Quote:YES--the metaphorical form of it!!! Not much more metaphorical than 'immersion' based on looking at 2d images pretending to be 3d, I think... :) Bethesda Grabs Fallout - OB1 - 31st July 2004 Quote:As I said, the best thing Bioware did in KOTOR was put in a decent camera... Yes dork, so your point is moot. Quote:Not much more metaphorical than 'immersion' based on looking at 2d images pretending to be 3d, I think... Nothing drawn on a monitor can be "truly" 3D, but if you can't tell the difference between 2D and 3D games then you're pretty damn retarded. Bethesda Grabs Fallout - A Black Falcon - 31st July 2004 Quote:Yes dork, so your point is moot. Which point, exactly is that? That I like isometric views? That I think it works really well? Oh, and KOTOR DOES follow what I say. Its combat isn't isometric but you also don't just fight in the exact same view that you play the game from the rest of the time... Quote:Nothing drawn on a monitor can be "truly" 3D, but if you can't tell the difference between 2D and 3D games then you're pretty damn retarded. My point is that saying that a whole half (two thirds, really, at least) of a genre is bed because of GRAPHICS is incredibly, incredibly stupid, and not something I'd expect from someone like you... Bethesda Grabs Fallout - OB1 - 31st July 2004 Quote:Which point, exactly is that? That I like isometric views? That I think it works really well? Oh, and KOTOR DOES follow what I say. Its combat isn't isometric but you also don't just fight in the exact same view that you play the game from the rest of the time... Your point was that because NWN had a bad camera, all 3D RPGs must have bad cameras. Completely inane comment, but I expect as much from you. Quote:My point is that saying that a whole half (two thirds, really, at least) of a genre is bed because of GRAPHICS is incredibly, incredibly stupid, and not something I'd expect from someone like you... Ok stupid, it's obvious yet again that you do not possess the proper amount of intelligence and comprehension skills to understand what I'm saying, so if you make me repeat myself one more time I'm locking this thread. I never said the genre is bad you twit, I said that it does not interest me because a) the combat itself is not good enough for me and b) the perspective makes exploration uninteresting, and exploration is the main reason I play games of that type. |