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+--- Thread: nintendo DS revealed! (/showthread.php?tid=1908)
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nintendo DS revealed! - alien space marine - 11th May 2004
http://cube.gamespy.com/articles/513/513341p1.html
nintendo DS revealed! - geoboy - 11th May 2004
Well it doesn't have the motion sensing some of us were hoping for or predicting, but I must say, the DS is getting me excited for some reason. Sure, it's only a little more powerful than the N64, but the DS is mainly everything we loved about the GBA plus improvements. I like Nintendo's approach to competing with the PSP - Keep it simple. It won't have the flashiest graphics in comparison, and it won't be an iPod killer, but it will be friggin' AWESOME when it comes to playing some cool new portable games. :D
nintendo DS revealed! - OB1 - 11th May 2004
Keep it simple? It's got two screens and a stylus!
nintendo DS revealed! - geoboy - 11th May 2004
That's a lot more simple than what Sony is trying to do IMO.
nintendo DS revealed! - Great Rumbler - 11th May 2004
Forget the PSP, it's the DS, baby!
nintendo DS revealed! - OB1 - 11th May 2004
In terms of their game functions, the DS is far more complex than the PSP.
nintendo DS revealed! - Great Rumbler - 11th May 2004
Because Nintendo is cool and Sony is not.
nintendo DS revealed! - A Black Falcon - 11th May 2004
Not in the eyes of the majority of the public...
nintendo DS revealed! - alien space marine - 12th May 2004
I may get a Gameboy advance sp, For the sake of having nintendo gear in my house.
nintendo DS revealed! - Great Rumbler - 12th May 2004
I'll get either the DS and the PSP, but likely not both.
nintendo DS revealed! - OB1 - 12th May 2004
I'll get DS at launch, and the PSP eventually. Gotta have my GT4 and Metal Gear on the go. :)
nintendo DS revealed! - A Black Falcon - 12th May 2004
I might eventually get a DS... don't know, depends on if I can afford it. Given how many games there still are for the GBA, I doubt it'll be soon...
nintendo DS revealed! - OB1 - 12th May 2004
Here are some nice pics from the show, courtesy of gcadvanced.com:
![[Image: NintendoDSb.jpg]](http://gcadvanced.com/images/games/NintendoDSb.jpg)
Nice, I hope the actual game boxes look like those. No more crappy cardboard display boxes!
![[Image: DSTop.jpg]](http://gcadvanced.com/images/games/DSTop.jpg)
I'm certainly not going to be able to fit that into my pocket. :)
![[Image: DSFloor.jpg]](http://gcadvanced.com/images/games/DSFloor.jpg)
![[Image: DSBox.jpg]](http://gcadvanced.com/images/games/DSBox.jpg)
nintendo DS revealed! - Dark Jaguar - 12th May 2004
Indeed, we all saw it as a VB at first, but that's Nintendo's way. Release JUST enough information about something to make us think it sucks because we don't know anything that would make us think otherwise, then BLAST us with about a million awesomenesses that change our mind instantly and against our will. Those psychological rapists are geniuses!
I see now exactly why it actually had to be two screens. They had to put the touch screen down low where our fingers could easily reach it. They also had to put the view screen high and totally intended on keeping the folding design. It all makes sense now, not gimicky at all but actually the only good engineering solution for the problem.
nintendo DS revealed! - OB1 - 12th May 2004
Yup.
nintendo DS revealed! - Great Rumbler - 12th May 2004
Those little DS cartridges look cool.
nintendo DS revealed! - OB1 - 12th May 2004
Indeed.
nintendo DS revealed! - Dark Jaguar - 12th May 2004
Ya know, I think the carts should actually just BE SD cards. That'd mean games would be able to use pictures and sounds you transfered to it from your PC. Imagine a future Mario Paint with some sort of 3D animation studio using textures you find online!
nintendo DS revealed! - big guy - 12th May 2004
kinda like mario artist but with the ability to download textures intstead of just using GB camera shots?
nintendo DS revealed! - Great Rumbler - 12th May 2004
The DS cartridges look kind of like SD cards, but I haven't heard anything about that.
nintendo DS revealed! - OB1 - 12th May 2004
Great sig, ASM. :D
nintendo DS revealed! - Great Rumbler - 12th May 2004
Darunia won't like it. :)
nintendo DS revealed! - big guy - 12th May 2004
darunia's a fascist
nintendo DS revealed! - A Black Falcon - 12th May 2004
Uh, DJ, what would be the point of them being SD cards? Given that those are the games, it's not like you could usually swap them out or something... and piracy issues would make them never want to have the things on an open media system!
nintendo DS revealed! - OB1 - 12th May 2004
Yeah that's a good point.
nintendo DS revealed! - alien space marine - 13th May 2004
PSP so far has the best games.
nintendo DS revealed! - EdenMaster - 13th May 2004
That looks almost exactly like one of the dual-screen Game & Watch units. It's a bit large, but it looks cool and I can't wait to get one of my own!
nintendo DS revealed! - Dark Jaguar - 13th May 2004
Exactly Big Guy! And ABF, if you had read my ENTIRE post, which was NOT very long, you would SEE exactly what the point would be! I mean, big guy gets it, so why not you?
Besides, they could use some special encription. I honestly will KILL EVERYONE I KNOW THAT PIRATES SOFTWARE PERSONALLY WITH MY BARE HANDS if I find out they won't do that AMAZING THING THAT COULD REALLY EXPAND MY GAMEPLAY just because of frkcin' THIEFS!
Edenmaster, never saw one of the game & watch units that wasn't actually a wrist watch myself, but looking it up, yeah it does look like that. It's not that large, it's basically putting the system back to GBA size again. Anyway, it's still neato. The PSP has some interesting games, but honestly, most of the games I'm interested in are on the DS. I guess it's all due to my developing designer's view point. That pac-pix game just sounds so delicious!
nintendo DS revealed! - A Black Falcon - 13th May 2004
Um, DJ, my post refuses ANY reason that they'd make the cards SD cards.
And anyway, I just don't see much point... very few games would use it. It just doesn't seem like something that would add much to the thing and the negatives are greater.
Like, how would it work? A portion of the game card would be writable for stuff from a PC? It sounds confusing and as I said, that's a GAPING security hole that would be next to impossible to fully deal with. Gamecube piracy only became possible once PSO hooked it up to the internet...
Oh, and I have a Game & Watch and yeah, it isn't that big. Thinner than a GBA and probably of a similar size. This is bigger than that, and quite a bit thicker... though I don't really know how this compares to a GBA. I want to see a comparison image. :)
And yes, the DS has the best games. :)
nintendo DS revealed! - alien space marine - 13th May 2004
Which is cooler looking?
nintendo DS revealed! - Great Rumbler - 13th May 2004
The DS's dual-screens automatically render it the coolest looking and, yes, it does have the best games.
PSP = Teh suck.
nintendo DS revealed! - OB1 - 13th May 2004
GT4, Wipeout, and Metal Gear do not = Teh suck. :)
nintendo DS revealed! - A Black Falcon - 13th May 2004
... I want Wipeout...
nintendo DS revealed! - alien space marine - 13th May 2004
PSP can be a MP3 player,Thats doesnt = teh suck.
Wow two screens! "Virtual boy"! Cough! cough!
nintendo DS revealed! - Great Rumbler - 13th May 2004
Quote:GT4, Wipeout, and Metal Gear do not
I didn't say that they did...well I'm not so sure about that Metal Gear game.
Quote:Wow two screens! "Virtual boy"! Cough! cough!
Umm....No.
Quote:PSP can be a MP3 player,Thats doesnt = teh suck.
PSP = Teh suck. Deal with it.
nintendo DS revealed! - OB1 - 13th May 2004
The DS looks great, but you can't say that the PSP looks teh suck... unless you are kidding... which I think you are...
nintendo DS revealed! - Great Rumbler - 13th May 2004
I'm saying it because I don't like Sony...which in effect means, yes, I am kidding.
nintendo DS revealed! - OB1 - 13th May 2004
They make some great games. ICO, Gran Turismo, Mark of Kri... and... and that's it.
nintendo DS revealed! - big guy - 13th May 2004
dj, i think it would make more sense to maybe have a mario artist game where the cartridge was specially designed to have sd cards hook up to it for importing textures and/or saving your wonderful artistic creations for the reason other members stated. though i do agree that it would be cool to be able to take images from my computer and put them into a mario artist style thing...and really the DS is the perfect sytem to make a mario artist game for because you could draw on the bottom screen. RIGHT ON IT! that's f'n wild.
nintendo DS revealed! - Great Rumbler - 13th May 2004
Quote:They make some great games. ICO, Gran Turismo, Mark of Kri... and... and that's it.
Yeah, they don't make that many good ones. But they have done pretty good lately.
That and the fact that I'm still a Nintendo fanboy at heart. :)
nintendo DS revealed! - OB1 - 13th May 2004
The good ones they've made have been superb though. ICO is probably my favorite current-gen game after Metroid Prime.
nintendo DS revealed! - A Black Falcon - 13th May 2004
Or how about accessing the Gamecube's SD card adaptor through the inevitable GC-to-DS connector? That actually could work... unlike making the game cards themselves SD cards.
nintendo DS revealed! - Great Rumbler - 13th May 2004
Quote:The good ones they've made have been superb though. ICO is probably my favorite current-gen game after Metroid Prime.
Okay, so I'm supposed to move this box, right? *hears screams in the distance* Alright, I'll be there in a second! So...now I'm supposed to push this lever and ride on the cart...*more screams* I said hold on!! Wow, this cart is fast! *girl is drug into dark pit by monsters* Oh that is just great! You just couldn't run fast enough to get away from the stupid monsters that are so slow they probably couldn't even catch a sick old lady! Well that's just great! *Game Over* I didn't save my game either!!!
nintendo DS revealed! - OB1 - 13th May 2004
Wha?
Did you just diss ICO?
-10,000 cool points for GR.
*tsk tsk tsk*
And I had such high hopes for you...
nintendo DS revealed! - N_A - 13th May 2004
You know, I realize everyone is excited about the DS, and I would like to as well, but for some reason, theres a nagging issue about the game media. The SD card technology if you are aware is quite small, and quite expensive. You're looking at an SD card that weighs in 256 MB of data which can range up to $50. The FlashROM tech is fast, BUT it might end up being an unfortunate Achilles Heel for the DS.
Look at the PSP, Sony is using the minidisk system, and that gives it a disk size thats even bigger than the Gamecube's disk. Nintendo might have used the same reasoning in the past that the portable games of this generation might not be able to use all of that space and the system might not have that power. This might be true for portables, but it might be proven wrong given time and creativity. We have seen that the N64 reasoning was that CDs might not have been fully exploitable in that generation. That was however, proved completely wrong.
Expensive or not, that doesn't seem to be an issue for most buyers when buying consoles. Its another few months of savings vs. buying a system they might feel is inferior. Sony is going to be weighing on its already superior fanbase to carry over to its PSP market. Yet again, I'm afraid this is bad for Nintendo because up until now, casual gamers have had no other choice than Gameboy, and given the opportunity, the mast majority of them would likely associate the PSP with a superior gameplay experience. In addition to that, preferences and console/company loyalties will play a big role despite any of the unrealistic arguments that say they don't... speaking on an economic understanding that people do have limited disposable income combined with personal preferences.
Unfortunately, I can't help but feel this is a grave mistake for Nintendo to use ROM technology yet once again and might end up just handing the handheld market over to Sony on that aspect.
nintendo DS revealed! - A Black Falcon - 13th May 2004
256MB is $50? But this is a 1Gb card, or like ~120MB... cheaper I'm sure. And is the UMD so cheap as you suggest? I doubt it... aren't PSP games supposed to retail for like $35-40? More than GBC games! I'd bet that DS games will be the same at most, and likely GBA-level.
nintendo DS revealed! - N_A - 13th May 2004
I'm pretty sure the Sony minidisk is cheaper, and its definitely cheaper per megabyte give its storage size already. If the DS and PSP games sell for the same price, well, that just means the DS is shitted out of gamesize for the same price. Thats what... a $35 game with 120 MB size vs a $35 game of 1.8 gig size ?
The bottom line is still the same. Its a question of storage, and I don't think 120 MB cards will do the job enough to compete with the PSP at all. Its something thats giving me alot of dismay over the system. I mean like it has a lot of great stuff, but storage is the Achilles Heel and I can't help but feel its PSX vs. N64 all over again, and whats worst is that this was Nintendo's last area of dominance.
Needless to say, the entrace of the PSP into the handheld market alone is bad news because instead of Nintendo having 95%+ market share, now even if they still dominate, they'll loose money because market share will mostly likely drop, and it will be worst if this does indeed prove to be the Achilles Heel.
nintendo DS revealed! - A Black Falcon - 13th May 2004
Nintendo isn't trying to compete in storage space! You might as well complain just as bitterly that the PSP is PS2 power while DS is N64. Sure, it's a generation back. But it was designed that way, because the touchscreen is the primary feature, not modern-gen power. Why is that so hard to understand?
Oh, and that 'N64' thing is part of the answer to your question. Yes, PSX games often did go hundreds of megs. But they are simply not as large as current games. Same here, due to the technology used. So the thing just does not NEED as large a media size.
nintendo DS revealed! - N_A - 13th May 2004
Whether or not Nintendo is consciously competing over disk space is a moot point because whether or not it decide to compete over that factor doesn't exempt it from the fact that there is competition on ALL FACTORS. It is like saying that Gamecube was not competing over the PS2 and Xbox over issues of DVD player and internet gameplay as a console, yet Nintendo's mistake of stonewalling that and pretending that its not going to compete over that factor. Unfortunately, the reality is that competition is over ALL FACTORS whether or not you choose to participate consciously. Quite obviously, even if Nintendo tried to make the GC a pure game console, the reality is that people didn't care, in terms of games, Nintendo still didn't deliver successfully because the PS2 and Xbox still had more games for systems that weren't pure game consoles. Not to mention for being a pure game console, Nintendo failed in not being creative enough to design a good business model around an Internet gaming system, of which they consistently blame on their lack of ability to brainstorm a successful business model for it.
In effect, the Gamecube is perceived in the market to be less of a game console than other consoles which weren't designed to be pure consoles.
Likewise, the DS is going down the same path. Its a handheld, and thats what it is. Its got great features with the double touch screen and stylus, chat, and various possibilities. The question is, will this in the end be hindered by the fact that it won't have the space to make top notch games to make it handheld the market will like ? Or will developers figure they would simply prefer to just use the PSP and make big projects and bring the handheld market to the level of literally "portable consoles" in gaming size, scope, and graphics.
Its like this, just because some fundamentalist Christians believe the Sun revolves around the Earth doesn't mean that it does that because they ignore modern science. Nintendo can't decide it wants to ignore the PSP's tech and storage level as competing factors just because it wants to create something different. To be competitive, it needs to be better than the PSP in all factors. As said, the storage is just one of them, and again, it could be a minor looking, yet Achilles Heel kind of deal.
Now can you understand that aspect of business competition ?
And your 2nd statement only made half sense, because its implicitly half contradictory. You say that the DS is N64 tech and doesn't require the space., while the PSP of PS2 tech requires the 1.8 gig, yet the PSX used a couple hundred megs... you do realize the PSX was inferior technology to the N64 ?
So whats your point ? Based on your reasoning, the N64 should have used even larger disk space, and likewise the DS should be the same.
nintendo DS revealed! - A Black Falcon - 13th May 2004
120. With compression, you could fit a CD worth on there. Okay, it's smaller. It's not a system-killing flaw. It was price, not size, that killed the N64, I'd say... yes, size had an impact, but I think price was the bigger problem. And here the price is not nearly that much of an issue.
Oh, and suggesting that developers need more space to make better games is stupid. They have twice as much as they ever had on the nearly equal N64, after all... and graphically the DS is obviously not competing with the PSP. That's a fact. We've known that since the beginning. And as I've said many times, I just don't care much. N64 graphics are good. Sure, PSP will look better and many people will buy it because of that. And if the DS had nothing else, it'd be a tough sell. But it does, and that 'else' will attract people. This is on a much different level than the NGC! That one didn't have anything that distinguished it, really, in the positive side. This has that strongly. What more could you need?
Sure, I think that Nintendo's statements that the DS isn't competing with the PSP to be about as sensible as their statements that the GC didn't compete with the PSP. They clearly are in many ways. But unlike the GC Nintendo has a position of strength in this industry and has innovation on its side. Sony's graphics and popularity will draw people, but I'd put low priority on the size of the cards. For what the DS is, it's more than enough.
Oh, and the PSX was in some ways inferior to the N64, sure. I'd expect that from a system a year older! But your point is? Oh, and it did have some advantages -- like it could push more polys, actually... Anyway, PSX games got big mostly through low compression, voice, CD music, and video. So the DS will have highly compressed video, lower quality sound, and high compression. With those it should be able to do just about anything anyone could want it to, you know. I just don't get why you see this as such a big problem...
Heck, even some GBA games have good amounts of voice and those things are on 16 or maybe 32MB carts!
And of course your statement of the PSP's superiority ignores the DS's truly innovative qualitites. Nintendo's focus on innovation tires when that innovation doesn't seem to truly exist, or to not be very benificial (like connectivity), but when they pull something like this I see why they try to do that...
Oh, and most people don't really care about how many megs the game takes up, they care about things like how it looks, how it plays, how much it costs... and what the selection is.
Oh yeah, and Nintendo seems serious in keeping the GBA around until the next Game Boy comes out. Which the DS, of course, is not. Despite its cart slot.