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+--- Thread: The "cool Episode III pics" thread (/showthread.php?tid=1538)
The "cool Episode III pics" thread - Fittisize - 7th March 2004
Quote:I think Darunia's hatred of CG stems from nostalgia more than anything else.
Most likely.
But like, you're too young to be nostalgic towards Star Wars...
The "cool Episode III pics" thread - A Black Falcon - 7th March 2004
Not if he was young when he first saw them and it was before Ep1...
The "cool Episode III pics" thread - Great Rumbler - 7th March 2004
Quote:But like, you're too young to be nostalgic towards Star Wars...
Not true! I'm very nostalgic about the OT, but that doesn't mean I can't like the prequels and think that the CG works for the movies.
Btw, I watched the parts with the clones troopers and I honestly can't that they are CG.
The "cool Episode III pics" thread - A Black Falcon - 7th March 2004
You mean can't tell? :) And yeah they do look very convincing...
The "cool Episode III pics" thread - Great Rumbler - 7th March 2004
There is a certain something about them but if I didn't already know that they were CG I'd probably think that they were actors.
The "cool Episode III pics" thread - A Black Falcon - 7th March 2004
I probably agree. I do think that they don't quite look real (too shiny or something?), but yeah... if I didn't know better I might be able to convince myself that they were real... most of the time anyway.
The "cool Episode III pics" thread - OB1 - 8th March 2004
Actually they're less shiny than the stormtroopers in the OT, although that's mainly because you just see them fight in a dirty, sandy world. Their material is different from the OT stormtroopers in that they look like they could take more of a beating. The OT troopers were made from very cheap plastic.
Cheap plastic:
![[Image: Stormtroopers.jpg]](http://www.episode-x.com/galleries/EpisodeV/Use/Use/Stormtroopers.jpg)
More expensive-looking "plastic":
![[Image: Clone_Jedi_gunship2.jpg]](http://www.azeem2000.com/clonetrooper/images/Clone_Jedi_gunship2.jpg)
The "cool Episode III pics" thread - A Black Falcon - 8th March 2004
They do look very good... as I said almost convincing. Certainly as good as you can get now.
Yoda's clothing is pretty impressive as well...
The "cool Episode III pics" thread - OB1 - 8th March 2004
Let me ask you this: Is any part of that clonetrooper real, and if so then which part? Think about it.
The "cool Episode III pics" thread - Great Rumbler - 8th March 2004
I think I'll refrain from attempting to answer that question on the grounds that doing so would probably only end up in me looking stupid.
The "cool Episode III pics" thread - OB1 - 8th March 2004
No it won't! You really can't tell.
The "cool Episode III pics" thread - Great Rumbler - 8th March 2004
I fixed my post. :D
The "cool Episode III pics" thread - OB1 - 8th March 2004
You just changed your manner of speaking to something more fancy!
The "cool Episode III pics" thread - Great Rumbler - 8th March 2004
Actually it's the same except I changed "ask" to "answer" which is what it was supposed to be. :)
The "cool Episode III pics" thread - OB1 - 8th March 2004
....
It looked different to me...
The "cool Episode III pics" thread - Great Rumbler - 8th March 2004
Nope, it's the same except for that one change. :D
The "cool Episode III pics" thread - OB1 - 8th March 2004
Huh...
The "cool Episode III pics" thread - Great Rumbler - 8th March 2004
Silly, OB1! Drugs are for losers!
The "cool Episode III pics" thread - A Black Falcon - 8th March 2004
I don't know... so I won't guess. Most of the pic is obviously CG but other than the two actors I don't know what part of the clonetroopers is real...
The "cool Episode III pics" thread - Darunia - 8th March 2004
Seriously, they would rather see fake muppets and rubber suits than realistic CG.
Oh there's no bias in that. Muppets are fake, but CG is real. CG is more flexible and you can do more with it, but puppets ARE more lifelike at this point in time. 1979 Yoda wasn't great, but who out there (besides Force zealots like OB1 who swear allegiance to der führer Lucas) can't easily point out how fake the CG Yoda is. He LOOKS like a CG character. His mouth isn't terrible well in sync with his voice.
You know why? Because the Clone Trooper models are perfect.
Perfect, huh. So 50 years from now, CG will not have evolved at all, and your beloved clone troopers will so be "PERFECT". Or perhaps they're just really good for today, and NOT perfect.
You only say they look fake because I told you they were.
Oh jeeze, don't give yourself so much credit. I say they look fake because they DO looke fake. Everyone here in reality agrees with me (i.e. Massachusetts). All my friends and family say that same.
I bet you also would have liked it if Yoda was a muppet in AotC, right? That would have been a great fight scene, having a muppet thrown around!
__________________
The "cool Episode III pics" thread - OB1 - 8th March 2004
Quote:I don't know... so I won't guess. Most of the pic is obviously CG but other than the two actors I don't know what part of the clonetroopers is real...
HA! I thought you'd say that.
Quote:Oh there's no bias in that. Muppets are fake, but CG is real. CG is more flexible and you can do more with it, but puppets ARE more lifelike at this point in time. 1979 Yoda wasn't great, but who out there (besides Force zealots like OB1 who swear allegiance to der führer Lucas) can't easily point out how fake the CG Yoda is. He LOOKS like a CG character. His mouth isn't terrible well in sync with his voice.
Now you're just making false criticisms because your "muppets are teh more real then CGI!!11!" stance is so painfully stupid. His voice is perfectly in sync with his voice, as Frank Oz timed it the same exact way as he's always done. They even gave the model some of the flaws of the muppet in order to make it seem as similar to the original as it could be without looking as fake. Notice how his ears wobble like the original puppet's, and his mouth movements move like a puppet's. Pfft, you're pointing out intentional flaws to make it more like the flawed puppet!
Quote:Perfect, huh. So 50 years from now, CG will not have evolved at all, and your beloved clone troopers will so be "PERFECT". Or perhaps they're just really good for today, and NOT perfect.
They are indistinguishable from the real ones, so they are perfect.
Quote:Oh jeeze, don't give yourself so much credit. I say they look fake because they DO looke fake. Everyone here in reality agrees with me (i.e. Massachusetts). All my friends and family say that same.
Well since they look so fake, please tell me which parts of that clone tropper pic I posted are fake.
The "cool Episode III pics" thread - A Black Falcon - 8th March 2004
Yes, the CG Yoda is far more "real" looking than the puppet. Well okay the CG one does thave that "CG" quality to him, but he makes up for it with flexibility... the puppet didn't exactly seem all that real either you know... and yes they copied his puppet movements pretty well in the CG character.
And OB1 I may not be able to tell which parts of that clonetrooper are real and which aren't, but I can tell that Yoda is a CG model and not a puppet. :)
Oh and he's right that they aren't perfect. They are admittedly nearly indestinguishable, but I am quite sure that there are flaws and that they have not perfected CG. Just look at most any movie out there with it and how most of the time it's pretty obvious when they have CG characters... CG people do NOT look like real people yet. The Troopers deal with that of course by being in armor, but still... I'm sure some people can tell the real thing from the CG...
The "cool Episode III pics" thread - OB1 - 8th March 2004
Quote:And OB1 I may not be able to tell which parts of that clonetrooper are real and which aren't, but I can tell that Yoda is a CG model and not a puppet.
Well of course, organic models at the time of AotC are still not perfect. But it's the best it gets.
Quote:Oh and he's right that they aren't perfect. They are admittedly nearly indestinguishable, but I am quite sure that there are flaws and that they have not perfected CG. Just look at most any movie out there with it and how most of the time it's pretty obvious when they have CG characters... CG people do NOT look like real people yet. The Troopers deal with that of course by being in armor, but still... I'm sure some people can tell the real thing from the CG...
We're not talking about most movies, we're talking about the clone troopers in AotC. They are 99% flawless, and if you put them next to real trooper costumes then you would not be able to tell the difference without extensive examining.
However, ILM has already made near-perfect CGI humans for Episode III. I know these pics are small, but try and tell me which one is real and which one is fake.
The "cool Episode III pics" thread - A Black Falcon - 8th March 2004
I don't see any pictures...
The "cool Episode III pics" thread - OB1 - 8th March 2004
Try again.
The "cool Episode III pics" thread - A Black Falcon - 8th March 2004
The first one (head) is fake. I think. Though it'd be a better comparison if the second was also of a whole head and not just a small part of it...
The "cool Episode III pics" thread - OB1 - 8th March 2004
Well I wanted the two pictures to be comparable in size because the real one is only available in that small size. Here's a brighter version of number two:
The "cool Episode III pics" thread - A Black Falcon - 8th March 2004
I think that you're saying that the second one is fake, then? :)
The "cool Episode III pics" thread - OB1 - 8th March 2004
Pretty damn impressive, huh?
The "cool Episode III pics" thread - A Black Falcon - 8th March 2004
Very, based on that small part of a face.
The "cool Episode III pics" thread - OB1 - 9th March 2004
There are digital doubles for just about every character that has a major action scene, so there's one for Obi-Wan, Anakin, Mace, and some other characters. You won't be able to notice it in the movie however, since it won't be used too much.
The "cool Episode III pics" thread - A Black Falcon - 9th March 2004
I bet with a whole body you could tell, but if they use it like those two CG Obi-Wan scenes in AotC, people won't notice unless they're looking for it at the right moment I bet...
The "cool Episode III pics" thread - OB1 - 9th March 2004
CG Obi-wan scenes?
Dooku had a CG body double in parts of the Yoda fight, could you tell then?
The "cool Episode III pics" thread - Great Rumbler - 9th March 2004
I liked the part of Episode 2 documentary where they had the Yoda puppet that had vampire fangs.
The "cool Episode III pics" thread - OB1 - 9th March 2004
And funny hair.
The "cool Episode III pics" thread - Great Rumbler - 9th March 2004
Christopher Lee: I can't believe you'd do this to me, George.
The "cool Episode III pics" thread - OB1 - 9th March 2004
Hahaha... those were the days.
*sigh*
The "cool Episode III pics" thread - Great Rumbler - 9th March 2004
The "cool Episode III pics" thread - OB1 - 9th March 2004
what...
The "cool Episode III pics" thread - Great Rumbler - 9th March 2004
Huh?
The "cool Episode III pics" thread - A Black Falcon - 9th March 2004
Quote:CG Obi-wan scenes?
The ones they mentioned on the documentary on the disc. :)
Oh and as for CG Dooku now that you mention it I'd heard that but that too you can't tell in the film...
The "cool Episode III pics" thread - OB1 - 9th March 2004
There are no CG Obi-wan scenes in Eppy 2...
I can tell where Dooku was doubled, but only because I analyzed the scene for like, ten bajillion years.
The "cool Episode III pics" thread - A Black Falcon - 9th March 2004
Um I remember something about at least part of him being CG when he's being dragged around in the fight with Jango on the planet where they're making the clones and also where he embraces the CG guy in the diner... :)
The "cool Episode III pics" thread - OB1 - 10th March 2004
Oh right, but that wasn't a full body double, just from the neck down. Yeah that was extremely good CG work.
The "cool Episode III pics" thread - Darunia - 10th March 2004
They are indistinguishable from the real ones, so they are perfect.
Maybe in your twisted, warped dictionary the definition of perfect is, verbatim, "indistinguishable from the real one", but in my dictionary (i.e the proper English one), "perfect" is tantamount to being flawless, and unable to be improved upon. There is always room for improvement---your legions of clonetroopers are NOT an exception.
Well since they look so fake, please tell me which parts of that clone tropper pic I posted are fake.
I'm sure the hand is real; i'm sure the helmet & breast plate are fake (or at least so heavily modified by a computer that they might as well be fake.) if i had to guess, i'd guess that some of the armor was added over a real actor maybe. At any rate, dissecting a quasi-real-CG clonetrooper isn't the point. I said that USING CG CLONETROOPERS was unneccesary and detracted from the realism--I didn't say USING A GUY WITH A CG HELMET was.
The "cool Episode III pics" thread - A Black Falcon - 10th March 2004
I'll bet you that far less of him is real than you think, Darunia. :)
I agree OB1 shouldn't be using 'perfect' for things that are definitely not perfect, but 'really good' is certainly appropriate. And 'you can be fooled into thinking they are real in some cases'.
The "cool Episode III pics" thread - OB1 - 10th March 2004
Quote:Maybe in your twisted, warped dictionary the definition of perfect is, verbatim, "indistinguishable from the real one", but in my dictionary (i.e the proper English one), "perfect" is tantamount to being flawless, and unable to be improved upon. There is always room for improvement---your legions of clonetroopers are NOT an exception.
Yes there is always room for improvement, but there comes a point where it doesn't make any difference to the human eye. You can add ten billion more polygons to a ten billion polygon ball and it would technically be an improvement, but there's no way you'd be able to tell the difference between the ten billion poly ball and the twenty billion poly ball.
Quote:I'm sure the hand is real;Nope!
Quote:i'm sure the helmet & breast plate are fake (or at least so heavily modified by a computer that they might as well be fake.)Real props and costumes don't get heavily modified, as you put it.
Quote: if i had to guess, i'd guess that some of the armor was added over a real actor maybe.
Nope.
Quote:At any rate, dissecting a quasi-real-CG clonetrooper isn't the point. I said that USING CG CLONETROOPERS was unneccesary and detracted from the realism--I didn't say USING A GUY WITH A CG HELMET was.
So it's bad to use CG no matter how realistic it used simply because it's not real? That's got to be the dumbest thing I've heard in ages! Guess what Darunia, most of what you see in movies is fake! You know that city background in Citizen Kane? Fake! Movies are totally fake, and if you saw how they were made you might become disillusioned if you thought that they were authentic. It's all fake! Everything! It's all an illusion of some sort. The clone troopers in AotC are all fake because they look like the real deal, and because 99% of the time they were interacting with fake things on screen, whether that be CGI or good old-fashioned models. If they were real then the scenes would actually look more fake because blending full-sized props with miniatures and CGI models is more difficult to do. So it was all done to make things look more real.
Return of the Jedi still stands as the most impressive practical special effects movie ever, and look how much more realistic AotC looks than that. You even complained about the Battle of Endor! Sure CGI is still mostly not 100% realistic at this point, but it still looks more realistic than most practical effects and allows the director a hundred times more freedom to make his or her imagination become a reality. If more people stopped to think and understand the value of CGI and not just bash it because it's the popular thing to do, they'd realize just how valuable it is.
But yes it's still not perfect in most places, but it's the best solution there is. I hated the CGI character animations in Spiderman but can't really think of how they could of done most of the stuff any other way. I just wish they had the same talent working on it as Lucas has on his movies.
The "cool Episode III pics" thread - A Black Falcon - 10th March 2004
Quote:Yes there is always room for improvement, but there comes a point where it doesn't make any difference to the human eye. You can add ten billion more polygons to a ten billion polygon ball and it would technically be an improvement, but there's no way you'd be able to tell the difference between the ten billion poly ball and the twenty billion poly ball.
And when we get there you will have a point. But we most assuredly are not there yet and even with polys CG things often look more 'sterile' or something... as I said the clone troopers look good because they aren't modelling flesh. Okay, that head is very impressive, but I bet even that full size and you could tell if you were paying attention... we are not perfect yet, OB1, so don't call it that.
Oh and I'm wondering -- is there anything real on those clonetroopers? Just tell us... :)
The "cool Episode III pics" thread - OB1 - 10th March 2004
Quote:And when we get there you will have a point. But we most assuredly are not there yet and even with polys CG things often look more 'sterile' or something... as I said the clone troopers look good because they aren't modelling flesh. Okay, that head is very impressive, but I bet even that full size and you could tell if you were paying attention... we are not perfect yet, OB1, so don't call it that.Adding more polys to that clone trooper would make absolutely ZERO difference. They are perfect models, and the only thing that could be slightly improved upon is lighting and maybe texturing. But in terms of poly count it's as high as it'll ever be. The Spiderman CG model is a perfect replica of Tobey in suit, bump for bump. It looked fake in the movie because of the animation. Animation, texturing, and lighting are what make most CG models look fake. Poly count is not a problem. These aren't video games running in real-time, ABF. The way they do CGI work for movies is very different. You don't have a hundred clone troopers running around in real time with all of that background stuff. It's all "recorded" seperately and put together in one big composited scene.
Quote:Oh and I'm wondering -- is there anything real on those clonetroopers? Just tell us...
You tell me.
The "cool Episode III pics" thread - A Black Falcon - 10th March 2004
I have no idea really but if I was going to guess I'd say that they are all CG.