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+--- Thread: Five Hour ROTK: EE? (/showthread.php?tid=1421)
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Five Hour ROTK: EE? - A Black Falcon - 24th December 2003
http://www.theonering.net/staticnews/1072200980.html
Erm... that would be quite something...
Five Hour ROTK: EE? - OB1 - 25th December 2003
This could be bad though... http://www.thedigitalbits.com/rumormill.html
Five Hour ROTK: EE? - Great Rumbler - 25th December 2003
1st rumor: That's interesting and would make for a VERY long movie.
2nd rumor: I think it's pretty unlikely that New Line would pull something like that given the insane amount of money that these movies have already made.
Five Hour ROTK: EE? - Dark Jaguar - 25th December 2003
Five Hour ROTK: EE? - Laser Link - 27th December 2003
I would love to see them make the DVD version 5 hours. That would be awesome! And I'm one of the stupid idiots who bought each special edition along the way. :) I considered waiting for the complete set I knew would come, but decided I'd rather watch them now.
And I could actually see some VP somewhere in Corporateville thinking that it would be worth it to hire some other company to do cheap CG instead of WETA. That's what scares me. They should know not to mess with a very good thing, but that sort of logic usually doesn't work on suits...
Five Hour ROTK: EE? - A Black Falcon - 29th December 2003
Quote:Well, can't wait for that extended REturn of the King DVD. Because, shortly after that, they'll release the collector's edition with all 3 extended editions in one neat little package, costing less than the 3 seperatly, then I'll get THAT and LAUGH at the idiots who bought each and every itteration along the way! (No offence to the idiots who bought it each and every itteration along the way.)
And they'll laugh at you for waiting years to watch the EE's...
Quote:In any case, I certainly want those scenes. Personally, I'd rather they have put in some of those story building scenes and cut out parts of those battles. Sure the battles were cool, but they could have cut out variuos parts of it and still given one the gist of things (and add THAT back in for the extended DVD), while on the other hand those other scenes had actual story. Still, I see why they went with what they did. The audience likes action.
You are looking at it from the wrong angle. When looking at a theatrical release, you've got to keep the movie moving... listen to most any director's commentary tracks on DVDs (I know it's mentioned on LOTR FOTR EE, and Lucas talks a LOT about how he does his stories on the Ep1 and Ep2 DVDs... and plenty of others...)... you can't have all the story you want. As they say, they frequently end up cutting the great slow story-exposition scenes in favor of moving the story along because in a theater you want to keep the audience's intrest... too much talking without anything going on and you will lose it. So in the theater you cut the talking scene, not the action one. It's just a reality of moviemaking. What DVDs do is let the directors put back in some of those slow, story-exposition scenes...
Five Hour ROTK: EE? - Undertow - 29th December 2003
Quote:Originally posted by OB1
This could be bad though... http://www.thedigitalbits.com/rumormill.html
WOW, THEY GOT THEIR INFO FROM AIN'T IT COOL NEWS, HOW RELIABLE!
No.
Five Hour ROTK: EE? - Dark Jaguar - 29th December 2003
Um, you did read my last sentence right? The one where I summerize that whole post you made explaining that I understand why they went that way?
Oh, and I hate buying the same thing twice when it's easy to avoid with mere patience. Why would I buy it when I could just read it any time I want and wait for the extended trilogy package? It's inefficient, illogical, and against my religion :D.
Five Hour ROTK: EE? - Laser Link - 29th December 2003
Well, I don't have to buy it twice, I just have to buy it piece by piece and maybe pay a little more. But will they really pack in all 12 discs?
Five Hour ROTK: EE? - A Black Falcon - 29th December 2003
The relevant question is, when they release all three together will it just be the three EEs or will they add stuff... if it's just the three EEs then it'd be really dumb to wait because getting the films years earlier is worth a few bucks. And I expect that that's what it'll be.
Oh, I see no point in getting the theatrical versions. The EEs come out within six months or so and are so much better that it's just a waste of money...
Quote: Um, you did read my last sentence right? The one where I summerize that whole post you made explaining that I understand why they went that way?
So why complain? I mean... when you know why it is that way and when you know that that is the only way they could have done it (remember, hardcore LOTR fans are NOT the target audience for the theatrical film! Normal people get bored...), why complain? Sure it'd be nice to see more story, but for a theater movie this is about as good as you could possibly hope for.
And as for the thing with Gollum driving off Sam, they added it into the series for the film so why would they remove it for the DVD? I agree that it makes Gollum more decidedly evil than in the books, but they clearly added it for a reason... you can say that you'd rather it wasn't there, but the way you state it it... I don't know, but I just think that if they put it in they clearly wanted it there.
And as for the thing about the SFX house... I agree. It would be incredibly dumb, but just like a Hollywood studio, to dump the film on some substandard (or below WETA quality) house just to finish it for cheaper. Ridiculous, when you consider the absurd amounts of money this film has made... but it'd be just like Hollywood...
Five Hour ROTK: EE? - Great Rumbler - 29th December 2003
I doubt they'd take anything out of the theatrical release when it comes out on DVD.
Five Hour ROTK: EE? - Dark Jaguar - 29th December 2003
What, just because I understand someone's reasons it means I can't disagree? I still disagree regardless of their good and valid reasons!
Also, I'm saying while I WISH they'd change it, I know they won't. Why can't I want something just because it most likely won't happen? (I know they wanted it there, but why shoud I care about that again?)
Oh, and finally, I had assumed people here had been buying both the unextended AND the extended, as in twice over buying. I know some people who do that. That's what I'm talking about. Plus, yes I'm waiting JUST IN CASE they end up adding some extra stuff to the collector's set.
Five Hour ROTK: EE? - OB1 - 29th December 2003
I only bought the EE's.
Five Hour ROTK: EE? - Dark Jaguar - 29th December 2003
That's smart of you. But, as teachers tend to say to kids who get defensive in class "If you didn't do it I wasn't talking to you.".
Five Hour ROTK: EE? - OB1 - 29th December 2003
Five Hour ROTK: EE? - A Black Falcon - 29th December 2003
Did anyone other than LL buy both versions of the films?
Quote:What, just because I understand someone's reasons it means I can't disagree? I still disagree regardless of their good and valid reasons!
As I said, the way you said it was strange... seemed like a long alternate scenario for something you know would not change. But whatever. You are of course allowed to disagree with the director... as for me, I'm not sure. It definitely increased the tension in the film, and in that way it was good, but it definitely did seal Gollum's evil side as having won sooner than in the book.
Five Hour ROTK: EE? - OB1 - 29th December 2003
I was actually pretty dissapointed with Gollum. After seeing TTT I was expecting to see a greater internal struggle and perhaps even some redemption at the end of RotK, but that didn't happen.
Five Hour ROTK: EE? - Dark Jaguar - 29th December 2003
Read the book (I guess we aren't doing spoiler tags anymore?) and you'll be much more attached to Gollum at the end. Same fate, but you really hate that it happens in the end, and that's a good thing.
Sacrificing depth for tension sucks. Depth is 10000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 times more important than action and tension combined. That's why movies about the human condition are better than action movies. The best are the ones than speak of the human condition VIA every other film genre there is, like LOTR does.
Five Hour ROTK: EE? - A Black Falcon - 29th December 2003
Action vs suspense, a classic dilemma...
Five Hour ROTK: EE? - OB1 - 29th December 2003
DJ: You say that like it's fact. I mean yeah story is always good, but film serves more purposes than just deep storytelling. Comedy, action, excitement, music etc. And sometimes story does get in the way, much like it can in video games. That having been said, my favorite movie of all-time is Akira Kurosawa's "Seven Samurai", probably the strongest study of the human condition ever put on film. Another Kurosawa movie I'd reccomend is "Read Beard". And "Ikiru". Hell, just see all of his movies while you're at it. And Ozu's.
Five Hour ROTK: EE? - A Black Falcon - 29th December 2003
Quote: DJ: You say that like it's fact.
Okay... it's not hard... why can't you just say "I disagree, and my opinion is"?
And as for story vs action, I don't know... I definitely like action in movies, but story is important too... I guess it depends. Some things work better with a much bigger focus on story and some on action...
Five Hour ROTK: EE? - OB1 - 29th December 2003
Right, it works better for different movies. Sure you can prefer one type of movie over another, but be sure to make it clear that it's just your opinion.
Five Hour ROTK: EE? - A Black Falcon - 29th December 2003
A story-focused version of The Rock (the movie, not the stupid wrestling guy), for example, would be awful...
Five Hour ROTK: EE? - OB1 - 29th December 2003
I didn't like that movie, but yeah I know what you mean.
Five Hour ROTK: EE? - Dark Jaguar - 29th December 2003
"film" is an annoying term for the movie industry. I say this because film as a medium is outdated and must be BURNED. The small credit card sized blocks of thousands of tiny adjustable mirrors is a far superior system for instance. It would work digitally, and would provide a sharp image on a gigatic screen with no artifacts, and NO BREAKING JUST WHEN THE MOVIE REACHES THE END. I hate the term film because I hate the medium of film. Arbitrary and stupid yes, but I like it too :D.
Five Hour ROTK: EE? - Great Rumbler - 29th December 2003
Five Hour ROTK: EE? - OB1 - 29th December 2003
Dj is nuts.
Five Hour ROTK: EE? - Dark Jaguar - 29th December 2003
Didn't The Rock suck too though? And THe Mummy, and Equilibrium? And every other action movie that starts out "in a world, one man... must stand apart, when everything one man knows is threatened, by some British villian"
Five Hour ROTK: EE? - OB1 - 29th December 2003
If they do action well and the story doesn't get in the way of the movie, then it is successful. Of course it's not quite as simple as that, but that's basically how it is.
It's just like video games. You can't deny that a complex game like Alpha Centauri offers a deep, rich experience and that Grim Fandango is great because of it's story and puzzles, but we need more than that! We need mindless fun like Pong and Gradius. We play different genres to excite our various tastes. And just because Bubsy 3D is simple and bad doesn't mean that all games of that type are bad. 3D platformers may be simple to play, but that does not make them any less difficult to develop and make fun than any other genre. We are complex creatures and have a large variety of emotions and interests, so we require variety in our lives, which applies to movies, games, music, etc.
Five Hour ROTK: EE? - Dark Jaguar - 29th December 2003
Yeah, but for me games are different, because you play them. Personally, it can have all the action and such in the world, but if the story sucks then I hate the movie. Action and catchy one-liners to me are like graphics and sound in games, that is to say fluff to add to the main point of movies, books, and TV. I can enjoy a good action scene, but if the movie is nothing but action like too many are, they should just drop the pretext of story they add in to defend themselves and show it like someone would show a circus act. I can enjoy those just fine. It's the pathetic attempt to defend themselves and claim it's a "cinematic event" that I take offense to. Likely it's just me. Perhaps most people do just see them as circus acts of sorts. I tend not to care too much about fighting unless there's story expressed via it, and that's tough. For instance, all that a fight scene like I see in Jackie Chan movies tells me is "that guy is strong, that guy isn't". But in a movie like Crouching Tiger, it can help to express the essence of fighting alone with no rest. Too often it's just blind fighting without any real expression of anything but skill. As I said, it's impressive for that reason, but not being that much of a spectator of sports, it's not enough to glue me to my seat. I need substance. In a game, I'm actually doing the fighting. Much more fun. It's the same reason I completely hate all survival horror movies, but find myself loving that same genre in the game world. I dunno, I guess it's down to personal opinion. I suppose lots of people do watch it for the individual details of the fights, analysing that part and the art of it on it's own merits, perhaps with statements like "Did you see that guy kick the other guy INTO the 3rd guy? That was awesome" (no, I don't mean to insult in this way, don't take it that way, I quoted for comedic affect is all). It's just not something I enjoy as anything other than a tool for getting on with more story. Of course, there is such a thing as too much story, or maybe more accuratly, too much cheesy story with way too many unnecesary and illogical plot twists. It's called a soap opera. They are watched by people who don't like fantasy and "unrealistic" stuff, ironically enough.
Five Hour ROTK: EE? - OB1 - 29th December 2003
As a martial arts practitioner I watch martial arts movies for the fights, and to be entertained. If the fights aren't good enough (as in the Matrix movies and Crouching Tiger), then they should just drop the fights and stick to soley the story. Of course, a good story can make an action movie even better in certain cases, like Jet Li's Once Upon a Time in China movies. That movie had a solid story and good fights, but the only drawback was that there weren't as many fights as you would see in a MA movie that had less story. So there's no perfect balance.
I can understand if a person doesn't like martial arts for the sake of the art itself and needs an emotional hook to suck them into the movie. For me, a well-done martial arts scene is all I need, as watching people perform so well is quite magnificent.
And by the way, it's not about "Did you see that guy kick the other guy INTO the 3rd guy? That was awesome" as you go ignorantly put it (no offence). It's about form and execution.
Also, it seems that you have a difficult time being immersed into a movie. Yes with video games you control the action, but a good movie can be just as gripping as any game if you appreciate the medium enough. You can become the characters, and sort of feel whatever they feel. You can feel their sadness, their happiness, or you can feel like you're them when they're fighting.
Five Hour ROTK: EE? - Dark Jaguar - 29th December 2003
I have a hard time relating to characters with personalities that just can't exist. I can only get sucked in if the characters are believable, even if they aren't human. For instance, I could never enjoy or get sucked into "Blade", because the characters are barely alive. However, I can get drawn into almost each and every character in Lord of the Rings.
Five Hour ROTK: EE? - A Black Falcon - 30th December 2003
Quote:Also, it seems that you have a difficult time being immersed into a movie.
Definitely seems to be the case.
Quote:For instance, I could never enjoy or get sucked into "Blade", because the characters are barely alive.
But it's a movie... not reality... so they're dead. How is that so different from alien races in scifi or elves, dwarves, etc?
And DJ, okay, so you don't like action movies... but as I said, don't say all movies would be better with stories like that -- many just would not.
And The Mummy was good, in a 'turn your brain off' kind of way...
Five Hour ROTK: EE? - OB1 - 30th December 2003
Quote:I have a hard time relating to characters with personalities that just can't exist. I can only get sucked in if the characters are believable, even if they aren't human. For instance, I could never enjoy or get sucked into "Blade", because the characters are barely alive. However, I can get drawn into almost each and every character in Lord of the Rings.
It's funny you say that because one of my few complaints about the Rings movies was that all of the characters seemed distant to me, and I really didn't feel their struggles. Perhaps I'd feel differently if I had read the books, but I've only seen the movies.
Five Hour ROTK: EE? - A Black Falcon - 30th December 2003
Yeah, the books have more depth. I thought the movies did a very good job of doing what they can, but there's only so much you can do, even in three and a half hour movies, especially for a series this complex...
Five Hour ROTK: EE? - Dark Jaguar - 30th December 2003
Haha, just realized the bad wording I used considering the nature of Blade :D. I mean they have barely any soul or personality to them.
Ah, and I suppose I can see where you're coming from OB1. Though, to be honest I found the characters in the movies to be very expressive and full of emotion. Though yes that could just be due to reading the book.
Five Hour ROTK: EE? - OB1 - 30th December 2003
They were certainly full of emotion, but I just didn't care about them or what they were doing.
Five Hour ROTK: EE? - Dark Jaguar - 30th December 2003
Hmm, yeah I'd recommend the book whole heartedly.
Five Hour ROTK: EE? - Great Rumbler - 30th December 2003
Quote:Didn't The Rock suck too though? And THe Mummy, AND EQUILIBRIUM?
*thread becomes a black hole from the shear amount of wrongness within that statement*
Five Hour ROTK: EE? - Dark Jaguar - 30th December 2003
Sorry, wasn't aware you liked movies that pretend to have depth but just spout adolescent "wouldn't it be cool if"plots that they write in the margins of notebooks when the teacher isn't looking :D. Eh, I can't really have "turn your brain off" fun ABF. I can't enjoy the guy killing everyone in site when I'm too busy thinking "oh in the name of everything that is holy that's a TERRIBLE plot device!", or "Yeesh could you come to some deep realization or something? I've been watching the SAME boring "to the extreeeme" personality the entire time!". I get into movies just fine, but only with good stories. They have to DRAW me in.
Five Hour ROTK: EE? - A Black Falcon - 30th December 2003
In action movies like The Rock and The Mummy the "story" is just an excuse for the next action scene... it doesn't always make sense and is often illogical, but no one cares because you'd never expect that from that kind of movie. You just can't think too much about the plot holes... I like action movies (as well as slower ones), and I think that's a pretty normal thing for people in my age/gender group... :)
Five Hour ROTK: EE? - Great Rumbler - 30th December 2003
I was talking specifically about Equilibrium, which is an awesome MOVIE, and not a game!!, and whoever says it isn't is a nerd who needs to be spanked with moonrocks.
Quote:but only with good stories.
Good stories are one important in making a great movie, but that doesn't mean I that I can't enjoy movies for the action and comedy. I can watch a very serious and very philosophical movie and then turn right around and watch guns-blazing explosion fest and then go onto watch something insanely funny.
Five Hour ROTK: EE? - OB1 - 30th December 2003
I think DJ is afraid that people will call her stupid if she watches something like The Mummy.
Five Hour ROTK: EE? - Dark Jaguar - 30th December 2003
Never played the Equilibrium game myself.
Also, I enjoy comedy a lot. Forgot to mention that comedy stands on it's own as well to me.
Finally, sheesh OB1, do you really think no one has free will except you? You tend to insult people a lot and assume that everyone's personal opinions but your own simply MUST be due to peer pressure in some form or another.
Five Hour ROTK: EE? - Great Rumbler - 30th December 2003
Quote:Never played the Equilibrium game myself.
What?
Five Hour ROTK: EE? - OB1 - 30th December 2003
Quote:Finally, sheesh OB1, do you really think no one has free will except you? You tend to insult people a lot and assume that everyone's personal opinions but your own simply MUST be due to peer pressure in some form or another.
Your hypocrisy knows no bounds, it seems. You just insulted GR for liking action movies, and you do things like that on a constant basis.
Quote:What?
You called it a game by accident. :D
Five Hour ROTK: EE? - Dark Jaguar - 30th December 2003
Touchy aren't we?
Ugh, this is so annoying. END!
Five Hour ROTK: EE? - OB1 - 30th December 2003
Ugh, you behavior is soo annoying, DJ. First you get insulted because of something that I said, then I point out how insulting you are, and then you call me touchy?? What is wrong with you, girl??!
Five Hour ROTK: EE? - Great Rumbler - 30th December 2003
No not end! Equilibrium is awesome movie! There! Now we can end it!
Five Hour ROTK: EE? - Dark Jaguar - 30th December 2003
Sure, why not? I've made my opinion clear, in somewhat harsh terms at times, and in a rather "that's just what I think" tone the rest of the time, like at first for instance. Apparently OB1 has been in arguments about this before, because he immediatly went on the war path, then I got defensive instead of the smart thing, the thing that ALL GOOD PEOPLE KNOW IS THE RIGHT THING TO DO, which was just stepping back.
Oh well, later!