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Halo PC - A Black Falcon - 8th October 2003
Well maybe I did notice something in co-op, but no way did it make the game unplayable, or any less fun...
And saying that a game is BAD because it has more options is just one of the most bizarre things imaginable... 'GE has better level design' at least makes sense... even if I think its wrong... but 'it has more options so its bad'? Huh??? For one, the game plays almost exactly the same as GE! More complex? Barely! In gameplay depth its got nothing on many PC FPSes... and its got the great detail of multiplayer options... and bots! GE lacking bots makes its multiplayer nowhere near as good, no question... it just adds so, so much to the game to have bots! GE multi needed people to play with... which just isn't that great a requirement for a FPS.
Halo PC - The Former DMiller - 8th October 2003
Something can be bad if it has more options and those options aren't organized efficiently. I think that was part of the problem. The pre-set games just didn't seem too much fun and it took forever to go through all those menus to set up your own game. I really can't explain too well why just about everyone I know liked GE better than PD. Maybe it can be attributed to nostalgia, but I just know that we gave Perfect Dark a lot of play before we finally went back to Goldeneye.
Halo PC - Dark Jaguar - 8th October 2003
I thought the options WERE organized very effiectively, as best as can be expected when you aren't using a mouse to change them at any rate. It CERTAINLY is a much better alteration than Halo or TS2 though. Having to go back to the main menu just to adjust your own game, rather than PD's ability to customize even the premade games RIGHT there at that menu, just gets annoying. Yes I understand how having lots of options badly organized can be frustrating, but as I said, I thought they were well organized. All the things you could want to adjust are on one simple menu. It's actually like an expanded GE menu really. It's got level select, character select, and all the other options. You didn't have to move all over all sorts of different menus or anything. If it was weapon selection, the one thing I can actually imagine taking a while, use one of the premade weapon setups. There's plenty enough and you can select them as quickly as in GE.
Sorry, I still don't see the problem. The only way that menu could have been more organized is if it was mouse driven, which it won't be.
Oh, and lest I forget, I loved how the character you picked had more than just size to it. Bigger meant faster and smaller meant slower, so you couldn't just be the shortest character and have full advantage ala GE. You would have the bad point of moving slower as well. I tended to pick a medium size character (like my body/head combo that looks very much like James Bond), but some, such as lazy for instance, always picked Mr. Blonde since he was the fastest character.
Halo PC - OB1 - 8th October 2003
Quote:Well maybe I did notice something in co-op, but no way did it make the game unplayable, or any less fun...
It didn't make it unplayable, but it definitely made it less fun. When you're trying to shoot a guy in the head (I don't like to use auto-aim, remember) but you can't because of the damn framerate, it certainly does make things less fun.
Halo PC - Dark Jaguar - 8th October 2003
Auto-aim doesn't even help you get head shots though. It only helps you get one kind of shot, the chest shot. The second you aim for yourself, auto-aim is disabled until the aim button is released.
Halo PC - OB1 - 8th October 2003
Right, but I always like to get headshots which is pretty difficult in co-op or four player split screen. With auto-aim things would probably be less of a pain since it's so much easier to aim, but I don't like using auto-aim.
Halo PC - Dark Jaguar - 8th October 2003
It's not easier since auto-aim only helps you when you aren't using the controlled aim button, like when you run through a room spraying it with bullets or something to keep them behind something while you grab that rocket, spin around, use controlled aim to shoot at their feet and watch the boom.
However, if you happen to have a weapon that kills even in a chest shot, like a charged mauler, then auto-aim is VERY convenient. However, some find it cheap. Since anyone who wants to can use it, plus those who depend too much on auto aim never develop real aiming skills, which are needed the REST of the time, I find it's perfectly acceptable to use it. Generally, I tend to go back and forth depending on the type of match. If I keep it on when I really am going for head shots then auto-aim can throw me off often enough to be annoying. If I am in a match with maulers, or perhaps shotguns, then I'll turn it on.
Halo PC - OB1 - 8th October 2003
I never use the aim button unless I'm using a sniper scope, so what you said doesn't apply to me. I aim very well without auto-aim in PD when the framerate is decent.
Halo PC - A Black Falcon - 8th October 2003
The aim button in PD? Needed in some cases, but the auto-aim deals with most of the issues of gamepads as well as is possible.
If you aren't using auto-aim, OB1, and complain about a problem that is a direct result of not using it, why are you complaining?
Halo PC - OB1 - 8th October 2003
Because I really hate using auto-aim in all FPS's, and in PD it's alright most of the time.
Halo PC - A Black Falcon - 8th October 2003
I really don't want to start this again... but analog sticks are just way too imprecise for aiming in a FPS for me to be able to turn off the auto-aim in console games. On PC of course I wouldn't have it on.
Halo PC - Private Hudson - 8th October 2003
I think both Perfect Dark and Goldeneye had their strengths and weaknesses.
Playing a 4-player deathmatch, I think Goldeneye definately came out on top, IMO. If you only had one other friend, then I would certainly pick Perfect Dark.
Both single player games were comparable in quality, albeit offering a somewhat different experience.
And PD's co-op had too much slowdown for me to handle, so I didn't bother with it.
Oh, and both are better than Halo.
:)
Halo PC - Dark Jaguar - 9th October 2003
Whether you liked co-op or not, you can't possibly count it being bad as a point for GE in any way shape or form because PD HAD the feature at least and GE did NOT have it. PD wins no matter HOW much co-op may have sucked in one's opinion by default in this matter. Same with bots. One may complain about them slowing it down, but you can't make that a point for GE at all because GE doesn't even have them, but PD does! You might say they suck so bad they are equal, but you can't possibly say an added optional feature makes a game worse for having it. (Well, unless that feature is the "destroy the universe" button...)
What's wrong with PD in 4P mode as opposed to 2P mode? I have yet to play any FPS game where it doesn't get supremely better with more players. The sheer chaos of PD with 4 players is just great. If I could find one fault in PD that GE doesn't have, it's this. 2 of the mine types have mine detectors built into them. While you can still use remote mines, and that's still fun, without the detector, I must say it's rather annoying to know I can't play a game with proxy mines without knowing they can detect them using that very item. That pretty much means I have to hide them VERY well or distract them enough that they can't use detect or kill them before they get a detector. Well, there are plenty of ways around it, plus the added element of strategy there. It just would have been nice to have proxies without sensors. Still, that being the only fault I can find where GE does better, I do believe PD wins completely.
Keep this in mind. I still love GE, but after PD totally schooled it I barely ever even touch it any more.
Halo PC - A Black Falcon - 9th October 2003
DJ, nostalgia almost always wins against more features... we've all guilty of it with some games...
Halo PC - Private Hudson - 9th October 2003
Quote:Originally posted by Dark Jaguar
Same with bots. One may complain about them slowing it down, but you can't make that a point for GE at all because GE doesn't even have them, but PD does!
Bots were the thing that made PD's 2-player death match better than GE's.
Quote:You might say they suck so bad they are equal, but you can't possibly say an added optional feature makes a game worse for having it.
Who said PD was worse for having it? I merely pointed out that PD having a co-op mode was of no advantage over GE, as I didn't bother playing it.
Quote:What's wrong with PD in 4P mode as opposed to 2P mode?
I didn't say there was anything wrong with 4player PD (until now, it slowed to a crawl..), just that 4player GE was much more fun.
Quote:Keep this in mind. I still love GE, but after PD totally schooled it I barely ever even touch it any more.
I don't touch either of them!!
Halo PC - OB1 - 9th October 2003
Quote:What's wrong with PD in 4P mode as opposed to 2P mode? I have yet to play any FPS game where it doesn't get supremely better with more players. The sheer chaos of PD with 4 players is just great. If I could find one fault in PD that GE doesn't have, it's this...
PD in four-player mode with more than maybe one bot makes it very slow, and overall the game runs slower than GE. Still, I definitely prefer PD.
Quote:I really don't want to start this again... but analog sticks are just way too imprecise for aiming in a FPS for me to be able to turn off the auto-aim in console games. On PC of course I wouldn't have it on.
So this is how it is: You really suck with a console controller but I do not, so I don't need auto-aim. See how simple that is?
Halo PC - A Black Falcon - 9th October 2003
Nope. I'm just bad as FPSes... :)
Halo PC - OB1 - 9th October 2003
Especially with a dual analog controller.
Halo PC - A Black Falcon - 9th October 2003
Dual analog? Uhh... I've played a couple hours (at most) of Halo multiplayer and maybe five minuites of Red Faction on PS2... that's it for dual-analog FPSes. And on N64, I just have PD... and have played Goldeneye. Not in a few years, of course, but I have played it.
In PC FPSes I can cope with the single-player modes, generally in easy difficulty, but multi? I am really, really bad, and they don't intrest me anywhere near enough to make me want to get good. Just not too interesting for me... and as for GE and PD I've played them a little in multiplayer, but not much. When I do play multiplayer console games there are just so many games I'd rather play...
Halo PC - OB1 - 9th October 2003
Dual or single analog, I meant.
Halo PC - Dark Jaguar - 9th October 2003
I'd say GE slowed down the same amount as PD at 4 player, possibly more (until you added sims, but you can't count that against PD because GE couldn't do 4p with sims at all).
In any case, we'll have to agree to disagree. I personally found PD more fun than GE at any player number.
Halo PC - OB1 - 9th October 2003
I forgot how slow GE's four-player mode was, but its single player was smoother. But yeah, I definitely prefer PD in single and multiplayer.
Halo PC - Private Hudson - 10th October 2003
Quote:Originally posted by Dark Jaguar
I'd say GE slowed down the same amount as PD at 4 player, possibly more (until you added sims, but you can't count that against PD because GE couldn't do 4p with sims at all).
In any case, we'll have to agree to disagree. I personally found PD more fun than GE at any player number.
Without Sims, GE's 4-player mode was better than PD's.
With sims, PD's 4-player mode was nigh on unbearable. S'why I prefer GE for 4 player mode.
Anyhoo, when you have 3 friends over for deathmatch, it's more fun without sims.
Halo PC - Dark Jaguar - 10th October 2003
Um, so you prefer GE because of some sim related issue? As I said, you can't use that as an argument because YOU CAN PLAY PD WITHOUT SIMS and GE DOESN'T HAVE THEM TO BEGIN WITH. You know, little things like that which show FRICKIN' LOGIC (to copy the PA post style of saying words). Or, maybe your point was that GE had better frame rate without the sims or something... To be honest from what I played I have to totally disagree. Then again, it's back to arguing about frame rates again, so I'll just step out.
Halo PC - A Black Falcon - 10th October 2003
He says that PD's 4-player with bots mode is too slow... but gives no reason for why the 4-player no bots mode is bad. Just 'its better' I guess...
Halo PC - Private Hudson - 10th October 2003
Ok, it's not soley framerate related.
When I have 3 friends over to play some 4 player deathmatch, there is enough of us so that bots are not warrented in any way at all. In fact, I think they only hinder the fun. Thus, I rarely bothered to play it's 4 player deathmatch with bots. And thus, the fact that it has bots is irrelevant to my comparing my levels of enjoyment with playing the game in 4player mode to my playing Goldeneye with 4 players.
Without bots, I simply found Goldeneyes deathmatch to be more enjoyable. For a number of reasons.
Unless of course there was only 2 people involved, in which case any sort of deathmatch is going to be a snoosefest without bots to liven things up. Humans vs. Sims in a variety of different scenarios would be our usual choice.
Halo PC - A Black Falcon - 10th October 2003
...
Uh, so WHY is GE better than PD? You haven't explained that yet...
Halo PC - Dark Jaguar - 10th October 2003
Yeah, I'd like a list of those reasons. You only state they exist.
Halo PC - Private Hudson - 10th October 2003
Why does it matter? Fact is whenever we had 4 friends together, our game of choice was Goldeneye, not Perfect Dark.
Actually, it was usually Quake 2 on PSX. Don't ask me why, but we loved playing that game in deathmatch.
Halo PC - Dark Jaguar - 10th October 2003
Ah, well that explains it. 'Nuff said I suppose.
Halo PC - Private Hudson - 10th October 2003
I was going to say that one of the main reasons we preferred GE over PD was that it had a realistic motif.
But then I added the part about Quake 2, and could really only include one point without looking hypocritical!
...I guess the simplistic arcade style of Q2 just won us over.
Halo PC - Dark Jaguar - 10th October 2003
All I can say about that point you were going to make but didn't is this...
Anyone who ends up liking one FPS more than another just because it's more realistic has some serious mental issues they need to work out, and I want them to stay away from me and bell towers.
Halo PC - Private Hudson - 10th October 2003
It was only one reason.
I suppose I could have just fallen back on level design..
Halo PC - Dark Jaguar - 10th October 2003
There's a preference thing, but that tends to be the major reason people complain about PD. Personally, I loved those levels. Area 52 and such, most great (well, I personally can't stand playing the garage level..., just too easy to get majorly lost plus it has a very boring feel to it). They added 3 of the better levels from GE as well (though to be honest I wish they also brought in the caverns, and left the doors on the bathrooms stalls of Felicity, yeesh anyone could just see you..., and oh yes the biggest GE level, the library/stacks combo, or whatever that's called that combines two huge areas, which I think I played more than the rest on GE). Oh yes, and my fave has to be "the grid". That level is small yet open yet seperated out :D. I love it! I suppose what really locked that as my personal fave was how I turned on smart slow mo and started it out with a bunch of sims in suits, and I happened to spawn in that one room with the door to nowhere, the pillars, and the elevator at the other end. I swear it was like that scene in The Matrix. You know the one, and if you don't, play some more PD.