+- Tendo City (https://www.tendocity.net)
+-- Forum: Tendo City: Metropolitan District (https://www.tendocity.net/forumdisplay.php?fid=4)
+--- Forum: Ramble City (https://www.tendocity.net/forumdisplay.php?fid=44)
+--- Thread: Good news about Enterprise (/showthread.php?tid=1039)
Good news about Enterprise - A Black Falcon - 7th February 2004
Quote:You have no problem believing in warp speed (though I know the theory is real), but the ability to harness and manipulate light into a saber-form is unacceptable to you. Interesting.
Huh? Of course light speed is seemingly impossible too, and the force, and all the rest... my point really is that each of these universes (SW and ST) has their own rules and own physics that cannot be directly compared.
Good news about Enterprise - Darunia - 7th February 2004
Oh. I'll concur to that.
Good news about Enterprise - Dark Jaguar - 8th February 2004
Yeah, they were shooting the ship. I mean, an arrow nearly killed Picard in one episode so they aren't immune to lasers.
Wouldn't need magic for the light to all meet at one point. Just curve space and the light will follow the curviture. Remember, space has curviture, and thus parallel lines WILL meet with the right curviture.
Perhaps you haven't seen a super borg cube, because those are planet sized.
If this is going to be a list of which universe would win (even though they do obey different physics, Star Trek struggling for realistic physics (though with the rate of change quantum physics is going through, it's tough) and Star Wars not even caring), I'll make a 12 point list on why Star Trek would win.
1. Q
2. Q
3. Q
4. Q
5. Q
6. Q
7. Q
8. Q
9. Q
10. Q
11. Q
12. Q
(If any of them felt like it...)
Good news about Enterprise - Darunia - 8th February 2004
I like Star Trek, but I love Star Wars. We should make a movie where the combined forces of Star Trek meet with a unified Imperial starfleet and Rebel Alliance and just have a 6-hour long super battle.
Good news about Enterprise - A Black Falcon - 8th February 2004
But if Q wasn't in it (because that's just unfair), then it'd be closer... but Star Wars would win. We've been though this before... SW is just on another level. It has a galactic republic, not some little dinky part of a quadrant... ships that can go across the galaxy in weeks (I think) in hyperspace... Jedi... massive fleets... you get the picture. :)
Only the Borg (with Transwarp) could compare with speed, and in Voyager's end they kind of hit some trouble... and can they use transwarp like normal warp or does it require those tunnels... I forget...
Good news about Enterprise - Darunia - 8th February 2004
Why doesn's Star Trek use starfighters like Star Wars...?
Good news about Enterprise - Dark Jaguar - 8th February 2004
Well, remember that Wars has totally different physics like you said, so they couldn't really be mixed. Wars tends to be Neutonian style with a couple stuff from Einstein physics, basically because Lucas is too dumb to get anything beyond that :D. (I KID I KID! Shut up! I know it's to make it relatable to the layman and he just doesnt' care about the physics.) While on the other hand, Trek actually goes about at least TRYING to get the physics working, and as a result, they couldn't really send anyone across the galaxy that fast because it's physically impossible to do that, EVER. In fact, even Warp Drive is physically impossible (derived from a misunderstanding of general reletivity, here's a hint, they actually based it on special relativity and THOUGHT they were working with general). Of course, Trek ends up having to correct their physics so often that any single device has about ten totally conflicting explanations on how it works (which is why I think it would be best if they didn't even bother explaining how the tools work until we actually BUILD one here in our reality).
Now, why on Earth am I debating this technology thing anyway? I dunno... I'm bored really. Trek has transporters, while Wars doesn't at all (I just KNOW someone's going to mention some stupid Wars book where they turn out to have them, and then yell at me for calling the books stupid, when it's clear I'm joking about that), and they also have phasers, while Wars uses lasers (or blasters, I thought those WERE lasers, but either way BOTH of them can be dodged so neither go at light speed). Trek has those awesome shields. Never once saw a shield in Wars until I played KOTOR, so I guess they lost that technology over time or something. Both have these massive ships, though Trek has the whole fleet made of somewhat large ships (they are like what, major city sized? it'd have to be with the millions of windows in the thing), while Wars has really small ships and even bigger ships, like county sized or something. Trek has those Borg cubes though... Wars has been around for thousands of years longer in space than Trek, but they stopped developing ANY advancements in technology after the first hundred or so and are, completely against human nature, completely and utterly stagnent in the technology department.
Eh, they're too different to compare. Wars has one huge republic as opposed to Trek's more Earth-like seperate "space nations" across the whole galaxy, so I'd have to assume Wars due sheerly to numbers, until Q felt like turning all the jedis into bunny rabbits. The Q, so you know, are based on a somewhat... unusual... interpretation of a certain odd quantum hypothesis someone formed a while back. Their idea was that a creature in a certain hyper space (higher dimensional space, like one would need 6d space to contain our 3d universe), like if there were a hyper space with a sufficient number of dimensions (like I think it was 120 or so), then it would be feasible to have a being who could completely manipulate absolutely every aspect of our 3D world in any way they wanted and at any time, existing "outside" as it were, much like an artist manipulating a 2D painting. Of course, that was a rather outlandish theory anyway, forgetting that the very analogy doesn't work out because the painting IS 3D in the scientific sense and exists in the same universe AS the artist. But, as I've noticed, while the writers for Trek TRY to be accurate, they actually only try in the sense that they make sure their idea was spouted out by at least one crackpot before making the show.
Starfighters are small and weak. That's why.
Good news about Enterprise - A Black Falcon - 9th February 2004
Quote:Never once saw a shield in Wars until I played KOTOR, so I guess they lost that technology over time or something.
Star Wars has shields. Always has... well in the shielded ships. Go watch ANH now. They talk about shields in all SW movies and they're in every SW game where there are ships. The TIEs don't have shields, but just about everything else (including rebel fighters) has them.
Light speed is of course impossible but it's equally impossible in Trek and Wars. Each Sci-Fi thing has its own lightspeed and made-up reason it works... Wars has hyperspace which is special and very very fast. Trek has warp speed and it also has very very fast Transwarp...
As for blasters, it depends on who or what you ask for if they're laser beams, 'coherent light beams', or whatever, and how fast they go. I don't know if there's a consistent answer...
Quote:Wars has been around for thousands of years longer in space than Trek, but they stopped developing ANY advancements in technology after the first hundred or so and are, completely against human nature, completely and utterly stagnent in the technology department.
It's a space opera... techno-fantasy if you will. And what's a staple of the fantasy genre? Yup, a complete lack of technological progression!
As for Trek Science, I don't know all those details, but I've read parts of a book on it... they make attempts but frequently break and contradict their rules. Star Wars just makes up its own rules and is not consistent at all in the movies... the books try to frame it better in the real laws of the universe (for instance, saying that there isn't actually sound in space, the ships all have sound generators in them that make the noises), but there are still numerous contradictions as the treatises on such subjects at TheForce.net prove. :)
As for fighters, SW has them because it's based on WW2... the 'fighters and carriers' form of naval warfare. Same reason it has dogfights, ships that last so long (as opposed to nowdays with homing missiles that kill in one hit, shooting from miles as opposed to close-range dogfights like SW, etc). Trek just ignores fighter combat for the big ships... which makes sense since they aren't really doing much warfare and mostly have exploration and stuff by themselves where bigger ships work better. Wars is all settled so carrier-fighter (with, however, carriers that work very well as battleships and fight at close range with heavy firepower all the time) model with fleets -- you don't have to explore the galaxy was mapped a long time ago... and you can warp quickly so you don't spend months getting from place to place...
Good news about Enterprise - Darunia - 9th February 2004
Wars has been around for thousands of years longer in space than Trek, but they stopped developing ANY advancements in technology after the first hundred or so and are, completely against human nature, completely and utterly stagnent in the technology department.
Yea, I've noticed that to...there is virtuallly no technological progression at all. Nothing changes from EP I to EP VI. Technology is at a stand still... they had hyperspace and the same starship technology thousands of years ago. All they do is update the models.
Starfighters are small and weak. That's why.
Really---cuz twice now one or more star fighters have destroyed two consecutive Death Stars.
Bullshit. They serve a very good function in real AND fake life. In the Pacific, they had better speed and altitude; they could go wheere carriers and battleships couldn't. They could take the battle to the enemy without endangering a whole fleet. One dozen fighter-bombers could take out their toll on the enemy many times over. The exact same is true for Star Wars (and Babylon 5,) and it should be for Star Trek. Roddenberry just never thought to implement it, and no one ever has. Small and weak; bleedin' christ.
Good news about Enterprise - A Black Falcon - 9th February 2004
Quote:Yea, I've noticed that to...there is virtuallly no technological progression at all. Nothing changes from EP I to EP VI. Technology is at a stand still... they had hyperspace and the same starship technology thousands of years ago. All they do is update the models.
Militarially there is an explanation. War pushes military tech and when there is no war it stagnates. Now imagine a society where there hasn't been a war in at least a thousand years, maybe two thousand (the Sith War in KOTOR)!
As for fighters, yeah, Roddenberry was just stupid. Fighters can be very helpful in war...
Good news about Enterprise - alien space marine - 9th February 2004
In KOTOR they had the mandellorian wars and then the sith war with Revan and Malak. The Mandellorians were wiped out and scatterd by Revan and his vast space fleet built by the starforge.Then when Revan became a good guy again he finnished off Malak and ended the sith war.Then the Jedi were abled to get rid of all the remaining sith. Then the Republic didnt need its army anymore as all the enemies were eliminated. The Alien species never invented technologies and most simpily acquired it and used for whatever.
Good news about Enterprise - A Black Falcon - 9th February 2004
Yeah, after the Sith War there was no war for millenia... the Republic disbanded the army after that, since it wasn't needed -- all that were needed to keep galactic peace were the few thousand Jedi. No army, no need to get better military technology... and for better or for worse military issues seem to push all technology forward the most.
Good news about Enterprise - Darunia - 9th February 2004
You'd think that the commerical/industrial/private concerns would develop technology though. Like, who wouldn't want to live forever (create life-enhancing/longevity technology), or fast speed, as in for transportation or shipping.
Good news about Enterprise - A Black Falcon - 9th February 2004
Like what kind of technology? Humans lifespan has been extended, for sure... they never directly address the issue, true, but it must be because Pellaeon is pretty old by the latest books... and of course bacta cures all disease and injuries...
Good news about Enterprise - Darunia - 10th February 2004
Nah, people age like regular. Look at Owen Laars, and Obi Wan, and even Vader/Anakin between Episodes II and IV. That's only about 20, 25 years, and they're old and frail.
Good news about Enterprise - A Black Falcon - 10th February 2004
Vader is a special case. Owen Lars and Obi-Wan are older, but not frail...
Good news about Enterprise - Darunia - 10th February 2004
Obi-Wan has indeed aged; and at any rate, they age enough to know that they don't live SIGNIFICANTLY longer. They refer to Obi-Wan as a crazy old man, and aren't even sure if he's still alive. If people live so much longer, why would they doubt his vitality and health (not counting that he lives in the middle of an isolated desert.)
Good news about Enterprise - A Black Falcon - 10th February 2004
Well he's living in the middle of the desert... of course he'll age more than someone in a city in a controlled environment...
(spoilers though)
http://boards.theforce.net/Literature/b10003/14744824/p1/
Arguement, but it seems to be true that Star Wars humans live longer. That's to be expected though since as technology improves so does lifespan. Pellaeon may be 90 by the end of the NJO, but he's still perfectly able to be in command of the Empire... and that's just one example, there are plenty more. People still age, of course, but they just live longer... humans living to 120 or more doesn't seem rare.
Good news about Enterprise - Darunia - 10th February 2004
Another thing I don't get about Star Wars is why they don't use a calendar. Like, they don't have years...they don't use a set time span. Like, ANH took place in 5,303 in the Year of the Force or something. They should implement this.