Quote:Each Oracle game is as long as a regular Zelda game and they are very different from each other (aside from graphics and menus). If you don't consider them full Zelda games then you can't consider MM a full Zelda game.

Quote:I didn't say they'd update them. I said they are likely to take the update they already made and put it on there.

Oh, and I thought that about SMB1 too, until they rerereleased Donkey Kong Country on GBA even though it was already rereleased on GBC, just because that one looked and sounded better.

Quote:'very' different? I'd disagree. Yes, worlds, enemies, and items are different... but the gameplay is the same. More similar than any two other Zelda games. They also have a lot of characters in common, and you need to play both games to fight the real final boss! How do you reconcile that with them being completely different games?

Yes, they are different... but still, they have a lot of similarities and are connected in many ways.

Are they more different than any two Pokemon games? Probably... but that's saying next to nothing...

Quote:In any case, first off, the idea of placing most of the Zelda 2 backstory long before OOT is something I think I'll buy. It does make a lot of sense. The backstory never did say for certain that the scroll and 6 jewels had to be put there by the same king as the one long long ago who had the first Zelda as a daughter, those could have (and according to this guy, was) placed there AFTER LTTP.

His Oracle explanation is interesting. I had always just placed them in alternate realities myself, but he found a very interesting way to go about placing them in the real world. On this point however, I think I'll stick with the alternate reality explanation. I'll just stick with the idea of an alternate world with Ganon, Link, Triforce, and some great earlier battle that killed Ganon. I'd place this alternate reality in a time era close to something like OOT, due to the characters there-in. Of course, for this to work, you have to accept that there actually is more than one triforce (unless you decide to link the essence's minds into one mind across all realities, like Mantarok), instead of thinking of the triforce as something SO special it only exists in ONE reality. Besides, I find the whole "inner world of the triforce" idea contrived at best.

With that in mind, I'd say that instead of the triforce being placed in the castle after LTTP, it was split, and THAT king was the one who wrote the scroll saying the third part was the most powerful (after all, he'd be aware that Link was the Juror of courage, since Link was actually there to revive him), and hid it in a far off land. Then, Link went on his journey in case Ganon should return.

From here, I agree again with his telling. He went to the dream world of the Wind Fish, where his memories and the Wind Fish's memories intertwine to create a world with icons from both. However, he missed something that I picked up on. I do believe that all signs point to the Wind Fish being Lord Jabu Jabu (since Oracle's story takes place in another reality in my version, it's easy to think of Jabu Jabu being in a different place here). The first sign is all the OOT-like stuff the wind fish is dreaming about, like the owl. The second is this question. What happened to Jabu Jabu after the freezing of the Zora's place in OOT? In Jabu Jabu's place is a very NOT fish shaped block of ice, that couldn't contain THAT fish's size, so he's not frozen in there okay? I suspect after the corruption of the land by Ganon, he abandoned his people and flew off. In fact, I suspect that in the very act of all this horrible stuff, the nightmares in his mind were created! This would explain WHY the wind fish is having nightmares to start with. The horrible stuff Jabu Jabu saw (and I do believe the title of Jabu Jabu was only given by the Zora, and not his official name) would have damaged his mind. He went into solitude, and fell into sleep. It took eons, but over time during his sleep the horrible images managed to pick away at his mental defenses, and eventually start trying to take over, just about the time that the LTTP Link showed up, and the Wind Fish's power in the real world took shape during his sleep and caused a storm to attack Link's ship, and you know what goes on from there. I like the explanation AND the deep story implications of it all.

With Wind Waker in the picture, the reasons why the sage's decendants are human is made FAR clearer. It would seem races, during periods of extreme calamity or change, can sometimes undergo an extreme metamorphesis under special conditions. These conditions usually involve having some deity to depend on or otherwise having a connection to an incredibly powerful magical being. In the case of the Kokiri, when the land became an ocean, the Deku Tree saw fit to change their form to something more tree like and lightweight so they could use the winds and fly from island to island. Thus, the Koroks. In the case of the flying species who's name I forget, it's clear they come from the Zora. After loosing Jabu Jabu, they seem to have come across another deity, the dragon. During the catastrophe, the dragon must have seen it fit to change the zora into a bird like race, flying through the air as effortlessly as they once swam. Why the dragon thought they would be better off flying when the whole land was converted into a place fit for SWIMMERS is another matter entirely :D. In any case, this game also reveals that the powers are handed down from the elder to the decendant rather directly, even if it must be done by the decendant's ghost, it's always done. So, it's not just something that happens to be passed down in a passive manner. In any case, with that in mind I theorize that the various races all eventually were forced to become human, probably due to the various sages having to follow Link to the new Hyrule. In fact, it's suggested by WW that maybe it's possible to hand down the sage's powers to even one not blood related. They may have eventually had to pick a human. This is merely hinted at as a possibility though, at least in my mind, and may not be the case. In any case it's nice to see Nintendo handling this mystery. They even went as far as to use the spirits of DECENDANTS of the sages rather than those sages themselve's spirits. So, we have a couple new sage names to add at that :D. This maintains Ganon's claim to take revenge on the decendants (even though LTTP would have kept that claim in place anyhow).



Going further back, to Majora's Mask. He stated the four who are there went there after the skull kid got that mask. On that point, he's off. They left to guard the land, and he only started pulling the pranks AFTER they left, in fact BECAUSE they left. Why they left may have been due to them seeing the future, but in any case, that's the reality of it. The skull kid only got that mask a long time later (after going to Hyrule and meeting Link in OOT), in fact, a couple days before Link found himself in Termina, when he stole it from the Mask Salesman.

He also stated he didn't want to go into what the inside of the moon represented. Well, I think I will. I do believe the moon represents the skull kid's mind, fused with Majora's mind. The lone kid by the tree represents his abandonment by his friends, who are all far away playing in a circle without him. The mask on the kid represents, well, the mask, after merging with him and darknening his thoughts even further, towards playing "games" of total catastrophe. The wearing of the Fierce Diety Mask may represent using darkness to defeat darkness. There may be a story involved in that, since I don't think one should ever use darkness, no matter the reason (especially since you can still beat Majora without the power, and it's more satisfying besides). That's about all I'll go into about that, for now.

My new theory on how Ganon got all three pieces rather than just power is easily handled by Wind Waker. My old one WAS in fact trounced utterly. Anyway, it would seem the two other pieces were kept safe in two ways. One as a mere "heirloom" (incomplete at that), the other broken apart and scattered across the sea (though wouldn't they have been safer hidden in complex dungeons? :D). It would seem the entire reason for Wind Waker is to explain plot holes between OOT and LTTP (or at least the entire reason it's set in this era anyway), because once again this does a great job of explaining why on Earth Ganon has the other two pieces. Simple, eventually he managed to escape again, TWICE in face (though honestly I haven't the slightest idea HOW he did, what with everything he had to do to escape in LTTP) and took them himself. He actually had them but only for a very short time. He was defeated by Link though, but rather than simply dying, he was turned to stone. I would assume that, much like actual petrification, he was actually replaced BY the stone as he himself was "washed away" back into the Dark World. What happened to the triforce though? It was left by itself with the king, who most likely died going down with the ship that is Old Hyrule. I submit that, left alone with no master, the Triforce did something it's likely programmed to do. It returned to it's original location. That's right, it placed itself right in the Dark World. Ganon once again claimed it where it stood just like over a century before. This time though, the dark world was closed off, so the pieces could not go to their jurors. Thus, Ganon claimed it all. Sad to think, but the very barrier keeping Ganon inside probably managed to promise him the greatest power of the triforce. As to why the seperate pieces on their own locked away from any possible users didn't return, they weren't complete and thus weren't capable of such an action.

In any case, he stated an interesting though weird theory that when Link was sent back in time by Zelda at the end of OOT, Zelda actually sent him back to experience a "phantom youth" and didn't grow up in the real world, but in fact a false Matrix type world. In other words, everyone he met in that phantom world was just a figment of the spell. Nothing was real. So, meeting Zelda again would just be meeting a "doll", and going to the alternate world of Termina would also be a false existance. I don't like the idea of that myself, though I understand why he would think it needed to explain the plot that way. To be honest, I think the time paradox can be explained thusly. I do believe that Zelda used the power of the triforce of wisdom and the song of time to send Link back, and in fact, restore the entire land of Hyrule to before Ganon corrupted it. I do believe all traces of Ganon's actions, from all the people he killed, to all the damage he did, was undone by this, the power of wisdom. However, the plot hole is revealed that, how did the tale of the imprisoning war get told onwards? I suspect that's easy to explain like this. Behold as I flow straight into the explanation...NOW! She would have used the triforce of wisdom right? Well, she may have undone all the bad elements, but she may have decided to maintain everyone's memory of all that happened. Thusly, the tale could have been passed. For, though the people and the land would have been restored (even backwards through time to when Ganon first claimed the triforce), the memories would remain. However, she could not destroy Ganon himself, or do a thing to the Sacred Realm which was blocked off from even Triforce power, so although what Ganon did was undone in the Light World, back in the new Dark World, he still had possession of the piece of power (time magic won't undo that), and still had all the memories of all that happened to himself. Oh, as a result, those he killed IN the Sacred Realm would still be dead, since Zelda could not restore any lives lost beyond the seal. This ties up everything except Link, who after all was actually physically sent back in time. Well, simple, he lived on a normal life for a boy named Link, going to another world and saving it, that sort of thing, but didn't really change anything Zelda set in place with the triforce of wisdom, until time finally "caught up" and he grew up into that era. The time issues are very hard to comprehend, but there aren't any paradoxes or anything this way. I prefer this to Link growing up in a totally fake world of fake...fakeness.

One other thing of note. Wind Waker, once again playing it's role of "plot hole explain awayer", manages to even explain why Hyrule in OOT looks so much different than Hyrule in LTTP. Simply put, Hyrule is a whole new land altogether! New Hyrule manages to have a few locations with the same name as the old ones though.

Okay, let's skip to when Link from LTTP, in this telling, finally beats the nightmares in the Wind Fish's head and wakes up lost at sea. We have no idea what happened there. He may have eventually got back to Hyrule (I certainly hope so), or some other land. If he made it to Hyrule, he could have started a family (the bloodline must continue), but eventually died himself. Once he died, again we start agreeing. His blood could have been used to restore Ganon. This is actually not too long after LTTP, but he is still VERY weak (the plot device we use), so he rests in Death Mountain for eons, due to his immortal nature he bestowed upon himself with one of his wishes to the triforce (but not invincibility, I guess he didn't wish hard enough, since we know from LTTP that a wish is expressed based on how strongly that wish is desired), yet triforceless. As we both believe, he decides to take back what he thinks is his, and steal the triforce of power once again from a new Zelda, in an era where the legends have apparently been long forgotten (and Death Mountain is off limits). He ravages the land trying to find the hidden wisdom pieces, but a new Link comes to get them first (fighting in a world damaged to the point where few people have survived, and they live in caves), and trounces him. Then, this Link grows to be 16 and gets a crest on his hand. Then, the really old legend of Zelda's name is told, and Link finds the scroll, which isn't nearly as old, but is pretty old anyway, telling where the piece of Courage is. So, Link goes off to find it, but is very careful, for if he dies (as is said in the manual, and is shown WHEN you get a game over), the followers of Ganon shall gather his blood and use it to revive Ganon once again. He gets courage back, and restores the very first princess Zelda. Nothing is said, the ending credits roll, and we are left wondering what AMAZING AND TOTALLY WOW story stuff she could give after all this time.