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Nintendo sucks - Private Hudson - 17th April 2003
Quote:None of the above are killer-apps. They do not have the name recognition or quality of games like Final Fantasy, MGS, or Zelda, for example. They sold well because of their online modes.
Have you even heard of Madden? It's one of the most popular franchises in the world. And the rest of the games had massive hype behind them.
Or hell, how about Tony Hawk 3 and 4? Because Tony Hawk isn't a popular franchise either, is it?
I won't bring up Final Fantasy, though. It's weighed down by a HDD. And obviously isn't going to increase the PS2's sales. :)
Quote:Nintendo is behind in hardware and software sales, and I was referring to both. If you do not think that the Gamecube would see a sizable increase in hardware sales if Nintendo released some AAA online-enabled games then you are out of touch with the gaming world.
No, it wouldn't see a sizable increase. The games are going to sell about a million by themselves. The people that would buy Mario Kart online are the same people who would buy Mario Kart offline.
Quote:None of those titles you listed are AAA-quality.[/b]
SOCOM (as far as it's online capabilities are concerned) is AAA.
NFL2K3 is the best football game ever
Madden 2003 is a great football game
Twisted Metal: Black is another AAA game (arguably the first on the PS2 - now online)
Tony Hawk 3/4 --> Both AAA titles
Amplitude is an amazing game (though not popular)
Ghost Recon - Although I didn't like it
Mech Assault is, IMO, XBox's best game - certainly AAA
Unreal Championship received a lot of positive reviews as well.
I could keep going on. Admittedly, only Madden and Tony Hawk are really toward the same level of Zelda and Final Fantasy.
[quote](except for Everquest which I've heard has sold relatively poorly)
Well, it's bogged down by a subscription. And because.. why buy it for PS2 if it's on PC. So I really shouldn't have brought it up ;)
Quote:If they were offline-only then I am 100% positive that they wouldn't have sold half the number of copies.
Some games, sure. SOCOM would have sold like shit, because it was made for online play.
But then look at a game like Ghost Recon, which is selling extremely well on both XBox and PS2... and it's not even online in the PS2 version. Tony Hawk and Madden would have sold millions regardless (as Tony Hawk 3 showed - most didn't bother to take it online)
Quote:And Zelda online would kick ass. Just imagine Four Swords in 3-D.
That's true. If done properly, it'd be amazing. :)
Quote:You've done absolutely no research on this, am I right? You simply pulled this information out of your ass. The online adapters for both systems have been selling at a very rapid pace since their release, and X-Box sales in Japan skyrocketed after the launch of X-Box Live.
Sky rocketted? I'm sure Microsoft are basking in the glory of their XBox selling less than the PSOne this week. Despite the XBox being online and the PSOne not ;) And could you get the exact sales figures and dates for when XBox outsold the GCN? I thought the only time it outsold the GCN was alongside Dead or Alive Volleyball (when GCN was in a major slump).
Also, XBL! Launched around the same time as DoA:XVB. Coincidence?
Quote: The X-Box even sold more units than the Cube in Japan for a week or so. The PS2 couldn't have sold more units than its current pace, but in the U.S. X-Box sales have increased since the introduction of X-Box Live.
Now whose the one who hasn't done research? XBox sales increased? Wow.. that wouldn't have anything to do with Christmas would it? What were the sales like after Christmas? XBL! itself has sold relatively well, but with only 350,000 of them sold, do you really think that it's effected the XBox's sales at all? Don't you think that perhaps the 6million XBox owners already might have snapped up the vast majority of those 350,000?
Online capabilities have not effected the hardware sales in any great capacity, nor will they. It's just not a major factor this generation, and it's certainly not necessary for Nintendo to get into gear on the issue. If you're arguing that CASUAL GAMERS why buy the GCN because of online Mario Kart and Zelda and what have you, I would seriously doubt it. They'll all be off playing SOCOM on the PS2 and Halo 2 on XBox. Nintendo games appeal to Nintendo players, online won't change that.
Nintendo sucks - Sacred Jellybean - 17th April 2003
It's a dancing Jellybean, god dammit. Darunia found it and showed it to me.
Nintendo sucks - A Black Falcon - 17th April 2003
How can you not see that online gaming wouldn't help a lot? You sound like no casual gamer will ever like Nintendo again... and that is just false. If Nintendo made a effort to get casual, average gamers they could succeed. They just are not and do not seem to want to start doing that.
I just don't get how you can say that it wouldn't improve sales. Um... yeah... riiiight... you can try to explain away the X-Box sales increase after Live, but you can't, really... "christmas"? Then why did it suddenly jump in sales and suddenly start gaining very rapidly on the Cube? No other explanation I can see...
As for games, X-Box and PS2 each have some good online games, but they aren't Mario Kart or Zelda Online. No way. Mario Kart Online would sell VERY well and would give NGC a jump in sales probably just as big as the Zelda one...and would also raise the Cube's stock DRAMATICALLY among the hardcore non-Nintendo gamers... people who buy lots of games. I'd say that that all of those are great ideas.
The key would be to have a very affordable system for online play that's not too laggy and doesn't require broadband... tough but possible. After all, Dreamcast did it... the online network didn't help it live, sure, but that's not its fault... people gave up on it long before the network was up...
Nintendo sucks - OB1 - 17th April 2003
Quote:Have you even heard of Madden? It's one of the most popular franchises in the world. And the rest of the games had massive hype behind them.
Or hell, how about Tony Hawk 3 and 4? Because Tony Hawk isn't a popular franchise either, is it?
I won't bring up Final Fantasy, though. It's weighed down by a HDD. And obviously isn't going to increase the PS2's sales.
The same people who buy Madden every year buy it over and over again no matter what, and Tony Hawk was online only on the PS2, and it was a very plain online mode.
Quote:No, it wouldn't see a sizable increase. The games are going to sell about a million by themselves. The people that would buy Mario Kart online are the same people who would buy Mario Kart offline.
Correction: Die-hard Nintendo fans will buy Mario Kart no matter what; fence-sitters will be forced to buy a Gamecube with great online games such as Mario Kart and F-Zero.
Quote:Well, it's bogged down by a subscription. And because.. why buy it for PS2 if it's on PC. So I really shouldn't have brought it up
It just doesn't look good enough, I suppose. Not all PS2 owners have PCs, BTW.
Quote:Some games, sure. SOCOM would have sold like shit, because it was made for online play.
But then look at a game like Ghost Recon, which is selling extremely well on both XBox and PS2... and it's not even online in the PS2 version. Tony Hawk and Madden would have sold millions regardless (as Tony Hawk 3 showed - most didn't bother to take it online)
Ghost Recon is selling much better on the X-Box than it is on the PS2, and that's with the PS2's enourmous installed userbase.
Quote:Sky rocketted? I'm sure Microsoft are basking in the glory of their XBox selling less than the PSOne this week. Despite the XBox being online and the PSOne not And could you get the exact sales figures and dates for when XBox outsold the GCN? I thought the only time it outsold the GCN was alongside Dead or Alive Volleyball (when GCN was in a major slump).
Also, XBL! Launched around the same time as DoA:XVB. Coincidence?
The X-Box is extremely unpopular in Japan, but it did get a huge spike in sales when X-Box Live launched (I'm not gonna look for a link now--find it yourself), and X-Box Live start kits sold extremely well.
Quote:Now whose the one who hasn't done research? XBox sales increased? Wow.. that wouldn't have anything to do with Christmas would it? What were the sales like after Christmas? XBL! itself has sold relatively well, but with only 350,000 of them sold, do you really think that it's effected the XBox's sales at all? Don't you think that perhaps the 6million XBox owners already might have snapped up the vast majority of those 350,000?
X-Box Live launched before the Christman buying rush, and you have to take into consideration that a very small percentage of Americans have broadband internet connections, yet X-Box Live sold as much as Metroid Prime in November,
Nintendo sucks - Sacred Jellybean - 17th April 2003
...
Just to throw a random opinion into the mix, I'll say that I'd have a LOT more incentive to buy Mario Kart if it were online. LAN is cool, but the very thought of playing people here online makes me wet. Seriously... especially considering we'll have had a Mario Kart for every Nintendo system since the SNES, I think it's safe to say there's only so many directions to take the gameplay. Now, online play may not add an entire new dimension to basic gameplay, but it would increase replay value ten fold.
Nintendo sucks - A Black Falcon - 17th April 2003
Gamespy will allow online multiplay on systems that are connected to the net via a PC that has Gamespy on it. But Mario Kart on Gamespy might allow just 1v1 games, if it only has a 2-system link... :(
All you'd need is a broadband adapter, a online PC (broad or narrow band) and some other stuff... not sure exactly what. Can someone who knows how it works with Halo explain it better?
Nintendo sucks - Private Hudson - 18th April 2003
To play via Gamespy, don't you need a router? Because it's all running through your computer, so you need to have both your computer and your XBox connected at once. But that's it. :)
Quote:Then why did it suddenly jump in sales and suddenly start gaining very rapidly on the Cube? No other explanation I can see...
What are you talking about? November sales between the GCN and XBox were within a few hundred of eachother (not including Walmart, which is generally a GCN friendly store as far as sales are concerned). The closest the GCN came to outselling the Xbox since launch. And that was after the release of XBL!. It was also when XBL! was selling at it's peak.
Other than that, there has always been a large sales gap between the GCN and XBox, and that margain has not really changed. Well, January's gap increased somewhat. But when you look at recent sales data where XBL! has started selling quite low, and XBox has had some strong performers software wise (yes, including Ghost Recon) then it's perfectly logical.
Though, Zelda has just released and sold EXTREMELY well, so I'd expect the gap to be slightly smaller this week. GCN just doesn't have the staying power, and you're trying to pass it off on it's online plan isn't right. Watch the GCN's sales die down again after this month, as Zelda's impact wears off.
Quote:As for games, X-Box and PS2 each have some good online games, but they aren't Mario Kart or Zelda Online. No way. Mario Kart Online would sell VERY well and would give NGC a jump in sales probably just as big as the Zelda one...and would also raise the Cube's stock DRAMATICALLY among the hardcore non-Nintendo gamers... people who buy lots of games. I'd say that that all of those are great ideas.
Just as everyone thought Mario would give a the GCN a huge jump in sales? Or what about Metroid? Or Resident Evil? Or any number of other GCN games that promised to be the deciding factor in putting the GCN over the XBox. And none of them did. A Mario Kart, online or not, would not change things Perhaps for a month, like all it's other games, sales will be huge and then drop down (again, online or not). Also, I think you're overestimating just how 'huge' Mario Kart (or even Zelda) online would be. What do you all think, it'd go on to sell a good 8 million copies and become the most popular online game ever? No chance in hell... Hell, if it did happen, I'd be willing to bet it would not even be as popular online as some of the games on the rival consoles.
Quote:Originally posted by OB1
Correction: Die-hard Nintendo fans will buy Mario Kart no matter what; fence-sitters will be forced to buy a Gamecube with great online games such as Mario Kart and F-Zero.
Forced to buy a GameCube? Fence sitters will be forced to buy a gamecube for Mario Kart and FZero, online or not. You are all FAR overestimating the impact that the games would have. Of course, it's mere conjecture, and we'll never know. But I just don't understand your reasoning. It would not be some godsend sent from the heavens like everyone thought DreamCast online, or XBox Live! would be, and those systems were majorly hyped with games that sold extremely well on their online, and offline merits.
Madden, SOCOM, Ghost Recon, Mech Assault all have many players online at once, and are very successful.
Quote:Ghost Recon is selling much better on the X-Box than it is on the PS2, and that's with the PS2's enourmous installed userbase.
Actually, Ghost Recon on the PS2 is consistantly outselling the XBox version. Though, the margain isn't that great.
Quote:The X-Box is extremely unpopular in Japan, but it did get a huge spike in sales when X-Box Live launched (I'm not gonna look for a link now--find it yourself), and X-Box Live start kits sold extremely well.
XBL! In Japan sold about 40,000 units. Dead or Alive Volleyball made it to #2 in the console charts (can't be bothered checking exact numbers, though it was much more than XBL). Both were released within a few days of eachother.
Which do you think had the bigger effect on the XBox's sales for that week?
Quote:X-Box Live launched before the Christman buying rush, and you have to take into consideration that a very small percentage of Americans have broadband internet connections, yet X-Box Live sold as much as Metroid Prime in November,
Well XBL was extremely hyped. All the hardcore XBox owners (well, not all, but yunno) were going to buy it. It was practically like Metroid Prime in terms of hype. But then it died down. Now it's selling less than the average game on XBox (at least according to the latest figures). And certainly hasn't sold even half as much as Metroid Prime.
But what you need to note is that the sales of the XBox on average have not increased since it went online. There are obviously a lot of credible reasons for this (such as a lack of availability for example). But all I'm trying to say is that online play will NOT be a deciding factor when it comes to consoles this generation.
Nintendo sucks - A Black Falcon - 18th April 2003
XBL shouldn't be used as a standard for Nintendo Online... for the reason that Nintendo wouldn't limit it to just broadband. That would help a lot...
And how do you know that XBL hasn't made an impact or helped sales or anything? That sounds completely wrong...
Zelda was expected to help the Cube a lot. It did. A online network would do at least that because of what I said -- people avoiding the Cube, or who like Nintendo but not Nintendo's policies, would get one! I don't understand how it could possibly not have a huge impact... MORE PEOPLE WHO DONT HAVE CUBES WOULD BUY ONE FOR ONLINE GAMES THAN NON-ONLINE ONES! How can you possibly dispute that? Do you honesly think Mario Kart Offline and F-Zero Offline will sell as well as possible online versions would? Huh?
And look harder at those all-console games with XBL. You will notice the X-Box one is disproportionately high in almost every case...
Nintendo sucks - Private Hudson - 18th April 2003
Quote:Originally posted by A Black Falcon
XBL shouldn't be used as a standard for Nintendo Online... for the reason that Nintendo wouldn't limit it to just broadband. That would help a lot...
And Dreamcasts was 56k. Which was free, and came included with the system. But point taken.
Quote:And how do you know that XBL hasn't made an impact or helped sales or anything? That sounds completely wrong...
Hasn't helped hardware sales. The people who bought it originally already owned an XBox presumably. And since the first month, it's sales have slowed down quite a lot. Although, it's hard to tell. For all we know, EVERYONE who bought XBL! were just waiting for the XBox to go online before buying one.
Quote:Zelda was expected to help the Cube a lot. It did.
Well, we'll wait for sales figures to see Zelda's impact on the market. I'm guessing you'll see the GCN come close to the XBox (though not overtake it), then for sales to go back to normal. At least in America.
Quote:A online network would do at least that because of what I said -- people avoiding the Cube, or who like Nintendo but not Nintendo's policies, would get one! I don't understand how it could possibly not have a huge impact... MORE PEOPLE WHO DONT HAVE CUBES WOULD BUY ONE FOR ONLINE GAMES THAN NON-ONLINE ONES!
Well again, considering the impact that online to every other console has had (read: A lot less than "huge"), why would the GCN be an exception? Why would Mr. and Mrs. Casual all of a sudden forget about their XBox and PS2, which they may or may not already have online, and buy a GCN? For Mario Kart and FZero?
The majority of people that would end up taking the GCN online would be those who already own it. Just like those who have taken their PS2's online. Just like those who have taken their XBox's online.
Quote:How can you possibly dispute that? Do you honesly think Mario Kart Offline and F-Zero Offline will sell as well as possible online versions would? Huh?
Their impact on the GCN's hardware sales would be minimal. The games will already be selling on their offline mode alone, which again, I would hazard a guess at most people who want to take the games online would also want to play it offline, so it's sales might be somewhat higher - but not in the area of SOCOM: US Navy seals, which was made for online play (not offline) and was hyped as Sony's flagship online title.
F-Zero just needs marketting behind it, online or offline. It deserves to sell much better than it did on the N64.
Quote:And look harder at those all-console games with XBL. You will notice the X-Box one is disproportionately high in almost every case...
Like what? :)
Back to my original point - Online capabilities is not a necessity for Nintendo (or anyone, really) this generation.
Nintendo sucks - A Black Falcon - 18th April 2003
Do you think Nintendo would be better off if they had a online network or if they didn't?
Have you never played online games or something? I can't think of much else that would defend your position...
Quote:Hasn't helped hardware sales. The people who bought it originally already owned an XBox presumably. And since the first month, it's sales have slowed down quite a lot. Although, it's hard to tell. For all we know, EVERYONE who bought XBL! were just waiting for the XBox to go online before buying one.
There was a hardware jump! I don't want to make the effort it'd take to look up sales figures somewhere, but there was one!
Also it can't just be measured by the immediate sales jump. That is NOT the whole story. You also must look at the boost to public opinion and how it'll (eventually) make money on subscription fees... Nintendo is acting like they won't do this because they see no immediate profits.
As I've said a dozen times, looking at it that way is WRONG... and shows they have no clue about online gaming. If they did they wouldn't be discussing how profits seem elusive since THATS NOT THE POINT!
Yet you seem to defend them... I seriously doubt, as a result, you have much online gaming experience... because the amount of stock it gives the company in gamers' eyes, and how much it helps them in future sales of games, CAN'T be qualified that easily!
Quote:Well, we'll wait for sales figures to see Zelda's impact on the market. I'm guessing you'll see the GCN come close to the XBox (though not overtake it), then for sales to go back to normal. At least in America.
Cube sales passed X-Box sales, at least for a while. I remember hearing that.
Quote:The majority of people that would end up taking the GCN online would be those who already own it. Just like those who have taken their PS2's online. Just like those who have taken their XBox's online.
You REALLY think X-Box would be doing as well as it is without Live? Absolutely not! PS2, probably... but not X-Box.
Quote:Their impact on the GCN's hardware sales would be minimal. The games will already be selling on their offline mode alone, which again, I would hazard a guess at most people who want to take the games online would also want to play it offline, so it's sales might be somewhat higher - but not in the area of SOCOM: US Navy seals, which was made for online play (not offline) and was hyped as Sony's flagship online title.
F-Zero just needs marketting behind it, online or offline. It deserves to sell much better than it did on the N64.
Just not true. Um, how can you possibly say that adding online WOULDN'T affect sales of those games? That makes no sense! None! How you can't see that adding online would greatly help sales and give Nintendo a LOT more people who accept their console as a solid all-around platform is bizarre.
Quote:Like what?
Well, what about the 3 we've already mentioned?
Nintendo sucks - Private Hudson - 18th April 2003
Quote:Originally posted by A Black Falcon
Do you think Nintendo would be better off if they had a online network or if they didn't?
Have you never played online games or something? I can't think of much else that would defend your position...
I think they would be a little better off.
But it's not "necessary".
I play Counter-Strike every night.
Quote:There was a hardware jump! I don't want to make the effort it'd take to look up sales figures somewhere, but there was one!
Well you're gonna need to provide links, because I don't see one.
Quote:Also it can't just be measured by the immediate sales jump. That is NOT the whole story. You also must look at the boost to public opinion and how it'll (eventually) make money on subscription fees... Nintendo is acting like they won't do this because they see no immediate profits.
As I've said a dozen times, looking at it that way is WRONG... and shows they have no clue about online gaming. If they did they wouldn't be discussing how profits seem elusive since THATS NOT THE POINT!
Yet you seem to defend them... I seriously doubt, as a result, you have much online gaming experience... because the amount of stock it gives the company in gamers' eyes, and how much it helps them in future sales of games, CAN'T be qualified that easily!
In the long-term, if Nintendo were to launch a major online plan on the level of Sony or Microsoft, they would struggle to reach 1.5 million by the end of the GCN's life-span. Particularly if they were to plan on making money through subscriptions.
Again, I think you're over-estimating just how many people would take the GameCube online. However, you do bring up a good point that if they were to put MAJOR effort into making an online infrastructure with major support, it could be successful (which I never disputed). However, this isn't "necessary", as I still doubt just how many NEW gamers would be attracted specifically by the online plan.
I guess the only way we could really make any sort of 'accurate' guess, would be to analyze and scrutinize Sony's and XBox's online sales.
Quote:Cube sales passed X-Box sales, at least for a while. I remember hearing that.
Hmm.. I think that was only for a week? Not sure.
Quote:You REALLY think X-Box would be doing as well as it is without Live? Absolutely not! PS2, probably... but not X-Box.
XBox would be going exactly the same. It's only sold 350,000 XBL! kits for crying out loud.
Quote:Just not true. Um, how can you possibly say that adding online WOULDN'T affect sales of those games? That makes no sense! None!
I didn't say it wouldn't effect the sales of the games (which isn't even the arguement here), but that it wouldn't effect them as much as you might think.
Quote:Well, what about the 3 we've already mentioned?
Which ones? I see Ghost Recon...?
Nintendo sucks - A Black Falcon - 18th April 2003
Quote:Which ones? I see Ghost Recon...?
Capcom vs SNK 2 and Star Wars Clone Wars.
Quote:I think they would be a little better off.
But it's not "necessary".
I play Counter-Strike every night.
Then how can you POSSIBLY defend Nintnedo????
Quote:Well you're gonna need to provide links, because I don't see one.
Too lazy. :)
Quote:In the long-term, if Nintendo were to launch a major online plan on the level of Sony or Microsoft, they would struggle to reach 1.5 million by the end of the GCN's life-span. Particularly if they were to plan on making money through subscriptions.
Again, I think you're over-estimating just how many people would take the GameCube online. However, you do bring up a good point that if they were to put MAJOR effort into making an online infrastructure with major support, it could be successful (which I never disputed). However, this isn't "necessary", as I still doubt just how many NEW gamers would be attracted specifically by the online plan.
I guess the only way we could really make any sort of 'accurate' guess, would be to analyze and scrutinize Sony's and XBox's online sales.
True, it wouldn't be a massive success and suddenly put Nintendo well ahead in second.
But if Nintendo expects to have any hardcore gamers intrested in their next console, they HAVE TO START TRYING TO ATTRACT PEOPLE! Hardcore gamere aren't many in number, but buy lots of games... Nintendo ignores them at their own peril (because admittedly on consoles online isn't mainstream yet, unlike PC)...
And without online that will never happen, and they'll just continue to drive away the few hardcore fans they have left. Not a good idea.
Oh, online on all 3 consoles is probably the only way to try to push it into the mainstream, as well... and until its in the mainstream it won't be as popular and Nintendo will ignore it. Hmm... not a good circle there, I think...
And Mario Kart Online would do better than you think.
Nintendo sucks - Private Hudson - 18th April 2003
Quote:Originally posted by A Black Falcon
Capcom vs SNK 2 and Star Wars Clone Wars.
Pfft, those games weren't brought up in this thread :p
And where are you getting sales numbers for these games from? I'd be curious to see them. I don't think either sold well enough to make any sort of charts.
Quote:Then how can you POSSIBLY defend Nintnedo????
Well, I'm not really. I'd love to see online play on the GCN.
Quote:True, it wouldn't be a massive success and suddenly put Nintendo well ahead in second.
But if Nintendo expects to have any hardcore gamers intrested in their next console, they HAVE TO START TRYING TO ATTRACT PEOPLE! Hardcore gamere aren't many in number, but buy lots of games... Nintendo ignores them at their own peril (because admittedly on consoles online isn't mainstream yet, unlike PC)...
And without online that will never happen, and they'll just continue to drive away the few hardcore fans they have left. Not a good idea.
Well, perhaps online play on the GCN would be an investment for their next console (ala XBox Live!). Hopefully, they'll be able to include it in their next console and achieve success with it. Despite not having previous experience with it.
But that's basically what Nintendo have said in the article in question. They don't see any profit in it, so don't have any plans for online inclusion with their consoles for the next couple of years before they will reassess their judgment (approximately around the same time as the next generation is released).
Quote:Oh, online on all 3 consoles is probably the only way to try to push it into the mainstream, as well... and until its in the mainstream it won't be as popular and Nintendo will ignore it. Hmm... not a good circle there, I think...
Well, to be mainstream, I think perhaps it (online) would also have to be a couple of things;
1) Included with the console - no addons
2) Not charge a subscription.
Until then it's probably going to be relagated to hardcore gamers only.
Quote:And Mario Kart Online would do better than you think.
Mario Kart Online would sell incredibly well.
Coincidentally Mario Kart offline will sell incredibly well..... :)
Nintendo sucks - OB1 - 18th April 2003
Jesus Christ, I'm gone for a few hours and you guys post like mad. I'm not going to read all of that.
To end this while thing, Hudson is painfully wrong and ABF is right.
Nintendo sucks - A Black Falcon - 18th April 2003
Quote:Pfft, those games weren't brought up in this thread
And where are you getting sales numbers for these games from? I'd be curious to see them. I don't think either sold well enough to make any sort of charts.
No? I thought they were... anyway I know I've mentioned them before as Live games not online on the other consoles...
Quote:And where are you getting sales numbers for these games from? I'd be curious to see them. I don't think either sold well enough to make any sort of charts.
I'm not... don't know where to get sales numbers other than top 10 lists... :(
Quote:Well, I'm not really. I'd love to see online play on the GCN.
Then act like it!
Quote:Well, perhaps online play on the GCN would be an investment for their next console (ala XBox Live!). Hopefully, they'll be able to include it in their next console and achieve success with it. Despite not having previous experience with it.
But that's basically what Nintendo have said in the article in question. They don't see any profit in it, so don't have any plans for online inclusion with their consoles for the next couple of years before they will reassess their judgment (approximately around the same time as the next generation is released).
And that is exactly the formula to get your online system ignored once you finally realize that you should have had one years ago.
Quote:Well, to be mainstream, I think perhaps it (online) would also have to be a couple of things;
1) Included with the console - no addons
2) Not charge a subscription.
Until then it's probably going to be relagated to hardcore gamers only.
1, yes. 2, maybe, but unlikely to happen on any of the next generation of consoles. Unlike PC games which are almost all free...
Quote:Mario Kart Online would sell incredibly well.
Coincidentally Mario Kart offline will sell incredibly well.....
But not as incredibly well... not by a longshot.
Though Gamespy mode will attract a few people, it won't be that many...
Nintendo sucks - OB1 - 18th April 2003
Another thing you are forgetting is that Sony and MS are doing this online thing while Nintendo is just sitting on their asses trying to their own thing again, thinking that they're not actually competing with those other guys. Nintendo has to stay competitive! They have to match every step that Sony and MS make and then take a few leaps of their own. Nintendo cannot afford to be behind them anymore. They will die out if they continue along this path.
Nintendo sucks - Darunia - 18th April 2003
Yea I agree; they need to fucking wake up and stop trying to be so original and creative with everything. Sony's ahead, and god help us even MS is...they need to be serious for once, and get with the fucking program, or they'll become the next Sega.
Nintendo sucks - N_A - 19th April 2003
The guy has somewhat of a point though. If Nintendo were to start an online system, who would pay for it ? Nintendo ? That means all online games will get a price hike. Or us ? Not a whole lot of people like to pay to play. So I guess a happy medium between the 2 is where they need to go. A standard free gaming service, and a subscription premium service or something.
But I can somewhat understand why Nintendo is slow going into the online gaming. They've never done it before. While Sony has subsidiaries that have run online gaming networks, and MS runs their whole Zone.com and such, Nintendo's never done it and they need to figure it out. I'm sure they will, but they need to pick up the speed thats for sure.
On another note... now I see why WW was such a unchallenging game... plain idiots who complain about Mario Sunshine. Hell back in the days of 2D Mario, there were levels that were damned near impossible and that was the whole thrill of it all - the challenge. Nobody complained then, everyone bought Mario and loved it. Mario Sunshine had some pretty challenging parts to it, but still wasn't as a headache compared to some places in 2D Mario games.
Easy games are stupid... well obviously... and now it looks like Nintendo is going to make "gaming for retards" for the next few years. I wonder if they'll take complaints that game are too easy ?
Nintendo sucks - A Black Falcon - 19th April 2003
Yeah, its really stupid of Nintendo to say "people find games too hard! Lets make them easy!" That isn't the solution! Making games hard, but beatable, is... its tough to do but is the best. Because easy games may be fun while they last (IMO anyway...), but in the long run that game that takes you months is just going to be more fun and more memorable... because of the challenge. Beating easy games is fun, but shortlived. Hard games keep you coming back until you finish them... even if it takes a long time (for me, anyway)... like how I'm STILL trying to beat Excitebike 64 and am sure that one of these months I will finally beat the Pro Platinum circuit, and then the next circuit, and then finally unlock Excite 3D. It'll take a while (I just beat Pro Gold last december), but it'll be so satisfying... unlike easy games that are fun for days then you never play again, unless it has a good multiplayer mode. Which I don't play much. Such as Mario Kart 64...
Forgot to mention.. hard is good. Annoying isn't. See: Majora's Mask (I will not discuss this yet again...), or Star Wars Episode 1 Racer (the way that if you fall behind the computers you will NEVER, EVER catch up is infuriating... its SO INCREDIBLY CHEAP! And not fun at ALL on the harder races. Nearly impossible, too... I've still never finished above 9th on Grabvine Gateway and 10th on Abyss...
Nintendo sucks - Darunia - 19th April 2003
Maybe a return to choosing from several skill levels would solve the problem for everybody? That's been lacking in the past few years. In another Mario game, one could take less damage from enemies; get more hints, jump higher on an easier skill maybe...
Nintendo sucks - A Black Falcon - 19th April 2003
Yes, difficulty levels would be great...
Nintendo sucks - Sacred Jellybean - 19th April 2003
I was thinking the same... and was hoping that after I beat WW, I'll get to play again on a new difficulty level, a la Metroid Prime. I'm not holding my breath, though...
Nintendo sucks - OB1 - 19th April 2003
NA: Nintendo does experience with the whole online thing. Not quite p v. p, but they had that whole satellite system which was all about downloading games, among other things. Nintendo's excuse not to enter the online field is not because of a lack of experience.
Nintendo sucks - A Black Falcon - 19th April 2003
Not recent experience though, and as you say not online gaming...
Nintendo sucks - OB1 - 19th April 2003
They certainly have more experience than Sega did when the DC came out.
Nintendo sucks - A Black Falcon - 19th April 2003
True. But that experience is irrelevent when they are so resistant to the idea of "online gaming"...
Nintendo sucks - OB1 - 19th April 2003
I know that; I'm just trying to explain that the reason for Nintendo not going online is not because of a lack of experience.
Nintendo sucks - Darunia - 20th April 2003
So they've gone from the leaders and masters of the industry to casual backseat sunday drivers. Nintendos become the old grandmother of the industry, recalling on past glories, and afraid to try anything new.
Nintendo sucks - A Black Falcon - 20th April 2003
Pretty much, yeah.
Nintendo sucks - Great Rumbler - 20th April 2003
I have a theory as to why Nintendo is so hesitant to make games online.
First of all they would need to build a stable online server to handle all the games. Something which costs money. Then they would have to work that into their games. Nintendo, I think, believes that they must be absolutely certain that making online games would be profitable before they start doing it. Why? They are up against MS and Sony. Two companies which don't even flinch at spending a billion plus dollars on a gamble. Nintendo simply cannot afford to spend that kind of money when they aren't certain of a return. They know that spendind money like that could easily lead to their downfall.
Nintendo sucks - EdenMaster - 20th April 2003
Exactly GR.
In case you hadn't noticed, Sony and Microsoft don't depend on their consoles. If the X-Box and PS2 wre to somehow tragically bomb and not be able to come back, Microsoft nor Sony would be hurting that much. Microsoft is one of the richest companies in the world, and Sony's pretty high up there too. They've got money to burn. Nintendo, on the other hand, has only it's consoles. If they fail, Nintendo fails. If Nintendo spends money on somethig frivolous and it doesn't return, thats a big hit to their coffers. So before you fault Nintendo for not taking risks, I'm sure they'd love to borrow a couple billion dollars off of you to give it a try.
Nintendo sucks - OB1 - 20th April 2003
Nintendo is in third place right now and if they don't stay competitive they well not last long in the console industry. They have to keep up with Sony and MS, which is something that they aren't doing.
Nintendo sucks - Great Rumbler - 20th April 2003
They could go under just as easily trying to be competitive.
Nintendo sucks - EdenMaster - 20th April 2003
But I do agree with you, OB1. Nintendo can't afford to make mistakes, but they especially can't afford not to try. They're sitting back hoping for something phenomenal to happen so they will go to the top again with a minimum of effort. Nintendo hates spending money, they always have, and that's a tough tradition to break. So they're kind of in a Catch-22. If they risk and fail, the company may die. If they don't do anything, it certainly will.
Damned if you, damned if you don't. Nintendo may need luck to survive.
Nintendo sucks - A Black Falcon - 20th April 2003
As you say, if they don't do anything they will surely fall.
If they do do something they may fail but they may succeed.
Why they can't see that the second option is better makes no sense.
Nintendo sucks - OB1 - 20th April 2003
Nintendo won't go bankrupt if they come up with a good Gamecube online plan. This over-cautious stance that Nintendo and so many of their fans take will be their downfall.
Nintendo sucks - EdenMaster - 20th April 2003
You're under this delusion that Nintendo will make billions if they just go online. they have one game thus far, Phantasy Star, and they're not adding online capabilities to games such as Mario Kart, they have nothing to bring it online for now. And there is no guarantee that online gaming will succeed on Nintendo. Sure, I'll buy an adaptor, you will too, but will casual gamers? Will people who prefer single player games? A small percentage of people really like online games, so how do we know if Nintendo will get a return for what they spend.
Nintendo sucks - OB1 - 20th April 2003
I never once suggested that they'd make billions directly from the online model, but they certainly wouldn't lose any.
Nintendo sucks - Great Rumbler - 20th April 2003
Quote:Originally posted by OB1
I never once suggested that they'd make billions directly from the online model, but they certainly wouldn't lose any.
That isn't a certainty. Do we even know if MS or Sony have turned a profit with their online games? Online gaming looks to be doing good for now, but what about down the road when the one year subscriptions run out for Xbox Live? Will a bunch of people jump ship or will they start paying up? Untill these questions are anwered we simply don't know if online console gaming is/can be profitable.
Nintendo sucks - A Black Falcon - 20th April 2003
If I have to say "Profits ARE NOT THE POINT" one more time...
:hammer:
Nintendo sucks - Great Rumbler - 20th April 2003
Maybe not for MS or Sony, but for Nintendo it is. They don't have that much money to lose. Sure they could go for a while losing money, but nowhere near as long as MS or Sony.
Nintendo sucks - OB1 - 20th April 2003
Gah, what's wrong with you?! This is the same exact stance that Nintendo is taking and it's only hurting them.
Nintendo can't just sit on their asses and do nothing while the competition runs right past them! Whether or not Nintendo would turn a profit from the online model itself is not important!! They will sell more consoles if they aggresively push online gaming, and they will sell more games, especially third-party games which sell terribly on the Gamecube. Who the hell is going to want to get Madden for the Gamecube if the X-Box and PS2 versions are online? Believe it or not, Nintendo is directly competiting with Sony and Microsoft, and by refusing to do anything about online gaming is extremely stupid of them. If they do it right then there is no way for them to lose money from this. Only good can come from it, unless they're just completely incompetent.
Nintendo sucks - A Black Falcon - 20th April 2003
Exactly. When I say "money isn't the point" I don't mean "losing money on it isn't that bad". I mean that in the long run, it'd make them far more money than they lose in the early days, if you add up all the factors it affects...
Nintendo sucks - Great Rumbler - 20th April 2003
Quote:Originally posted by OB1
they [b]will sell more games, especially third-party games which sell terribly on the Gamecube. Who the hell is going to want to get Madden for the Gamecube if the X-Box and PS2 versions are online?[/B]
But will they? Why buy the GC version when you can just as easily get the Xbox or PS2? Just because the GC version is online doesn't mean that people still won't buy the other versions, which btw are also online. It certaintly won't hurt sales, but will it really help them that much?
Anyway, I think Nintendo should aggressively pursue online gaming on the GC. I never said otherwise. From my earlier posts it seemed like I was against it. Not really, I just felt like helping the other side a little bit. ;)
I do think online games have the potential to help them. Will they in reality help Nintendo? As there is nothing to compare it to. You might try to show Sony and MS's success as proof that it would help Nintendo. But would it? That's simply a question that cannot be answered.
Nintendo sucks - A Black Falcon - 20th April 2003
At this point its not really about trying to be a huge success... its been too long and the competitors have had way too much of a lead... its about just trying to stay in the place you are! If they don't do this they'll keep bleeding hardcore fans... who but a LOT of games...
Nintendo sucks - OB1 - 20th April 2003
Right.
Nintendo sucks - Darunia - 21st April 2003
What we need is a coup d'état in the Nintendo hierarchy.
Nintendo sucks - Great Rumbler - 21st April 2003
The current president of Nintendo has been running the company only for about a year, maybe a year and a half.
Nintendo sucks - A Black Falcon - 21st April 2003
And look how WELL they're doing!
Nintendo sucks - Darunia - 21st April 2003
A year, maybe a year and a half...so was he the dumb schmuck who gave Rare the pink slip?