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+--- Thread: Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion (/showthread.php?tid=3618)
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Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion - A Black Falcon - 28th March 2006
Quote:I meant that if you read what he said, he specifically mentioend Morrowind having that flaw, not Oblivion, and you'll have to ask him why he brought it up.
Not only that, but I specifically said that Oblivion improved on it and moved things closer to the way they were in Arena/Daggerfall -- GR, try actually "reading" what I said next time... (sorry if that's harsh, but to so badly miss my point you can't have read anyting really, and it was only one paragraph...)
Try actually reading this time...
Quote:Uh... yes... in Morrowind you push a button and the sword swings. You don't control its path on the screen -- it just swings when you click. That's a real change... makes it easier to swing more, makes the game simpler, removes an element of uniqueness... Oblivion sounds like they make it more interesting again, thankfully.
I know one goal in Oblivion was to remove the 'randomness factor' that is integral to RPG combat -- that is, you miss attacks not based on your dexterity but based on random chance -- and have more aiming and stuff, and more visual depictions of when you miss, etc... ie, make it even MORE actiony in the combat... maybe it makes it more fun (something even Morrowind fans must admit was weak in that game), but it's just not the right direction for an RPG... but if they must do that, I guess making it more interesting is good... lukewarm praise as that is...
Quote:Why are we talking about Morrowind?
Because you people haven't played Arena or Daggerfall (despite the fact that the parts of both of those games that I have played is free), making discussing those ones hard, and I haven't played Oblivion...
Quote:In Oblivion, that does happen, and it sure makes things interesting. The RPG is almost gone, but that's okay. I have enough RPGs right now and if I want that sort of gameplay, I'll play one of those. I like strafing around my enemy, jumping overhead while firing a lightning bolt, striking the poor thing in the back, running back, and dodging that fireball the thing was prepairing myself. It's great fun. It is fun to find a dear, aim high to make up for gravity's effects, and make a shot from a long distance, getting a nice kill. Then, running up to it, and if a wolf isn't feeding off it (I love this game), I'll strip off some dear meat and have a nice meal of it.
Deer. :)
But yes, they distract you with all kinds of things to do... but in the end I'd still rather play a focused game which puts its effort into interesting situations along a path, perhaps with branching or choice or stuff but with the whole experience focused in and designed. The greatest traditionally designed RPG ever is Baldur's Gate II: Shadows of Amn (Torment is better, but is far from being a traditional RPG to the degree where it's almost in its own category...).
Quote:As far as glitches, I've encountered a few. You can break into someone's house and talk to them and they don't seem to care that you broke in. At the same time, a local police officer will immediatly start looking for you if they notice that the lock on a door has been tampered with.
Daggerfall... one other thing about it I don't think I've mentioned before is that it launched horribly buggy... one of the more infamous games of all time on that regard... Bethesda have done much better since, but on any game of this scale there are bound to be some things that slip through. But that's what patches are for.
Quote:Also, there are no bathrooms. However, I consider that a mercy of sorts. Still, I am reminded of Star Trek. (I'm sure some nerd will comment about how in the future, everyone has a transporter or a wormhole in their arse eliminating the need to expel waste matter.)
You mean how with those jumpsuits going to the bathroom would not be easy? :)
Quote:The most crippling thing I've seen so far is that, for some reason, in a couple conversations I've had, my entire computer locked up. I mean, hard locked, no hope of redemption save the reset button. I'm not sure what's going on. I'll have to check my temp. I may end up turning my computer into a fish tank with a pool pump attached to it (filled with mineral oil).
It's a PC game, such things happen sometimes...
Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion - Great Rumbler - 28th March 2006
Quote:Because you people haven't played Arena or Daggerfall (despite the fact that the parts of both of those games that I have played is free), making discussing those ones hard, and I haven't played Oblivion...
That's like coming into a thread about Super Mario Sunshine and saying that you didn't like Super Mario 64 for various reason. Well, okay, but they're hardly the same game and have some large differences. Same goes for Arena/Daggerfall/Morrowind and Oblivion.
Notwithstanding that we've already gone through everything possible with Arena/Daggerfall/Morrowind long ago...
Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion - Dark Jaguar - 28th March 2006
I went to their web site and Arena is apparently a free download now. I obtained it and am now tweaking it so it works well in Dosbox.
ABF, about the bathroom thing, what I mean is I have never seen a single space toilet in Star Trek.
Oh GR, I'd like to know if clicking the right analog stick does anything.
Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion - A Black Falcon - 28th March 2006
Quote:I went to their web site and Arena is apparently a free download now. I obtained it and am now tweaking it so it works well in Dosbox.
Two years ago, actually, for the 10th anniversary of its release. I know I've mentioned it several times over the years, particularly the last few times we got into a big argument over TES/linearity vs. openness (with OB1 several times, certainly)...
Quote:ABF, about the bathroom thing, what I mean is I have never seen a single space toilet in Star Trek.
Ah. I'm sure they're somewhere though... :)
Quote:That's like coming into a thread about Super Mario Sunshine and saying that you didn't like Super Mario 64 for various reason. Well, okay, but they're hardly the same game and have some large differences. Same goes for Arena/Daggerfall/Morrowind and Oblivion.
Notwithstanding that we've already gone through everything possible with Arena/Daggerfall/Morrowind long ago...
The TES games are each different, but are also each clearly in the same series and designed with the same philosophy... yes, each is different, and part of playing each one of them (or having threads like this one where the latest one is discussed) is learning how exactly they are different (and how they are the same), but the series has a consistent philosophy, like how Mario Sunshine continues the gameplay philosophy of Mario 64...
As for Arena/Daggerfall/Morrowind, we have gone over that before, but only in relation to eachother, and not in relation to Oblivion as well...
Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion - Great Rumbler - 28th March 2006
Quote:Oh GR, I'd like to know if clicking the right analog stick does anything.
Not a thing.
Quote:As for Arena/Daggerfall/Morrowind, we have gone over that before, but only in relation to eachother, and not in relation to Oblivion as well...
Well, Oblivion is many times better than Morrowind in every single way if that tells you anything.
Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion - Dark Jaguar - 28th March 2006
Ah, so the instruction booklet says something like "this button is not used in Oblivion". Well, that may be the case for you :D, but I think I'll be mapping something to it.
Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion - Great Rumbler - 28th March 2006
I came upon a nest of necromancers today. The trick is to get them back into a corner and then wail on them with your fists. They might get you with a few blasts of magic, but they're pretty much done for if they can't run away.
Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion - Dark Jaguar - 28th March 2006
If I was a martial artist, sure, but as a sword wielding leaping freak with healing abilities, I just sort of run around slicing and dicing.
I'm also impressed with the way the enemies lead their shots. It certainly defeats that "run around in circles and they can't hit you" weakness too many adventure games are guilty of.
Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion - lazyfatbum - 28th March 2006
DJ/ upping your computer's hardware doesn't help bad programing, just frame rates and loading times.
i expect the PC version to have problems, but i'm more curious of the console port's issues.
Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion - Dark Jaguar - 29th March 2006
You asked about bad frame rates though. I wasn't suggesting that better hardware would fix game glitches.
Also, I don't expect games to lock up on my PC. Some people treat their PC like some sort of gadget program dumpster, but not me. My games simply don't crash so long as I keep my computer a clean environment and the games aren't glitchy. In this case, the latter is true. There is some sort of glitch in the game that causes it to lock up. Fortunatly, it seems this isn't my configuration and it's acknowledged as an issue by Bethesda, so a patch should be in the works already.
Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion - A Black Falcon - 29th March 2006
Quote:There is some sort of glitch in the game that causes it to lock up.
Um... yes, it's a PC game... they crash sometimes... some more than others, but they crash sometimes. Yes, games that crash often are a pain, but they're far from uncommon...
Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion - Great Rumbler - 29th March 2006
Quote:If I was a martial artist, sure, but as a sword wielding leaping freak with healing abilities, I just sort of run around slicing and dicing.
I thought that was the way to go as well, but once you start in with the hand-to-hand you really can't back to swords.
Quote:but i'm more curious of the console port's issues.
It's locked up on me twice and given me a disc read error once [that's with over 40 hours of play time]. The framerate is pretty good even in outdoor enviroments although it chugs a bit sometimes when loading a new area, but that's really for about no more than a second. It looks great and it runs well.
Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion - Dark Jaguar - 29th March 2006
A Black Falcon Wrote:Um... yes, it's a PC game... they crash sometimes... some more than others, but they crash sometimes. Yes, games that crash often are a pain, but they're far from uncommon...
So you are saying it's to be expected? Warcraft 3 has never crashed on me, nor has Starcraft, or a number of other games I have.
GR, so you are saying the game has actually locked up on you, and a disk read error from a brand new game? Ouch. Well, Metroid Prime locked up on me a couple times too, but for the most part games designed with one specific hardware in mind should not be crashing ever, with like 4000 hours of gameplay even!
Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion - lazyfatbum - 29th March 2006
i figured as much, I just dont understand why. all of their games have issues, PC and console. Why dont they spend an extra month or two to bug fix? or hire more people :D
DJ/ i get disk read error too, but it's actually because of the fan system (for me). I take an old tooth brush and clean the vents and use an air can (the kind you use to clean keyboards) and hit both vents and then the inside. I smoke so it gets alot of build up quickly but I bet if you clean the vents out and use a lens wipe on the GC reader lens you should be good. that's funny though you got a disk read error in MP, i never got one for it.
Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion - A Black Falcon - 29th March 2006
Quote:So you are saying it's to be expected? Warcraft 3 has never crashed on me, nor has Starcraft, or a number of other games I have.
WC3 and SC don't crash often, but yes, they have before.
Quote:i figured as much, I just dont understand why. all of their games have issues, PC and console. Why dont they spend an extra month or two to bug fix? or hire more people
In big games like this it's really hard to find every bug...
Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion - Great Rumbler - 29th March 2006
Quote:but for the most part games designed with one specific hardware in mind should not be crashing ever, with like 4000 hours of gameplay even!
PC games are bad about freezing up, but it happens to console games too sometimes.
Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion - Dark Jaguar - 29th March 2006
lazyfatbum Wrote:i figured as much, I just dont understand why. all of their games have issues, PC and console. Why dont they spend an extra month or two to bug fix? or hire more people :D
DJ/ i get disk read error too, but it's actually because of the fan system (for me). I take an old tooth brush and clean the vents and use an air can (the kind you use to clean keyboards) and hit both vents and then the inside. I smoke so it gets alot of build up quickly but I bet if you clean the vents out and use a lens wipe on the GC reader lens you should be good. that's funny though you got a disk read error in MP, i never got one for it.
I didn't get a disk read error, I got a lockup. In fact, I believe that's exactly what I said. You know, it was that glitch in the first Prime that happened occasionally when a new area was being loaded off the disk. Fortunatly, it only happened a couple of times. Once when I ran through two rooms really fast, and another time when I was on an elevator. Well, I suppose technically that makes it a sort of disk read error, an error in the way it reads from the disk. Anyway, I don't have a smoke problem around here so my laser lenses stay clean. I use a special disk to clean them when they do get dirty though. It has a bunch of little brushes on it so when a certain track is selected, the brushes hit it at a billion RPMs for a few seconds.
ABF, it may just be you have a lot of junk running in the background. A properly run computer won't encounter crashes unless the program itself has a problem. And, well, Starcraft and WC3 have simply not crashed on me as it seems all such bugs have been stomped out.
Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion - A Black Falcon - 29th March 2006
Quote:ABF, it may just be you have a lot of junk running in the background. A properly run computer won't encounter crashes unless the program itself has a problem. And, well, Starcraft and WC3 have simply not crashed on me as it seems all such bugs have been stomped out.
Sometimes programs just crash... I don't think there's always some ulterior motive or external motivation (read: something else running on the system made it crash)... Blizzard may be great, but they aren't perfect. Now, of course, I do have a pretty iffy system here stability-wise, so it doesn't take all that much to bring it down, really, but still... on this computer or previous ones, I've probably had just about everything crash before. Well, probably not EVERY game, some just don't work when my system is already unstable/failing, which is a different question, but you get the point... as long as they don't happen too often, an occasional crash (and by that I mean quite rare) isn't so bad. It becomes a problem when a game crashes regularly, or when you do some repeatable thing (a reproducable crash bug), though... but most games are not that bad, and usually bugs that bad get fixed, for the most part.
Quote:I didn't get a disk read error, I got a lockup. In fact, I believe that's exactly what I said. You know, it was that glitch in the first Prime that happened occasionally when a new area was being loaded off the disk. Fortunatly, it only happened a couple of times. Once when I ran through two rooms really fast, and another time when I was on an elevator. Well, I suppose technically that makes it a sort of disk read error, an error in the way it reads from the disk. Anyway, I don't have a smoke problem around here so my laser lenses stay clean. I use a special disk to clean them when they do get dirty though. It has a bunch of little brushes on it so when a certain track is selected, the brushes hit it at a billion RPMs for a few seconds.
Reads from the disc? Don't most modern PC games just dump everything onto the harddrive and have an absurd HDD space requirement?
Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion - Dark Jaguar - 29th March 2006
Keep up with the conversation ABF. I was talking about Metroid Prime with the disk read thing, which I'm pretty sure is a Gamecube exclusive.
On the system stability thing, I expect my games to be a lot more stable, and as a general rule, they ARE in fact more stable. A computer doesn't "just crash", and it isn't a motive, but there is always a cause. You yourself admit your system is very unstable. It's hard to say how far that goes, but if you have gotten to the point that you simply accept games crashing as par for the course, there's problems that need to be dealt with.
I can use my computer for months on end without a single crash. What happens between those months? I happen. I experiment with my computer a lot, and sometimes I get some... unpleasent results :D.
Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion - Great Rumbler - 29th March 2006
Man, I owned me some necromancers today. I went on the final quest for the mages guild to fight the King of Worms [who was kind of easy]. He was all like "Why don't you join me so that we can rule the world!" and I said "No way, man". I managed to back him into a corner and then I just wailed on him with my fists. The final blow knocked him over into a flaming brazier, which I found to be quite hilarious. I then looted his body for cool items, but I had to leave a few smaller things behind because I ran out of carrying capacity. :(
Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion - Dark Jaguar - 29th March 2006
It is SO easily to accidently steal things in this game, that's the one issue I have. I mean, you have this grab icon hovering over EVERYTHING, and it's hard to tell whether or not that's something the game will get upset at you for taking it, until you take it. Also, I've accidently taken glass things in front of people, in FRONT of them, instead of having a polite conversation. I don't do that in real life. I've never accidently pocketed a laptop instead of ask the guy behind it how much it costs.
Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion - Great Rumbler - 29th March 2006
Doesn't a red hand icon come up if you're hovering over something that, if taken, would be considered theft?
Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion - A Black Falcon - 29th March 2006
Quote:It's hard to say how far that goes, but if you have gotten to the point that you simply accept games crashing as par for the course, there's problems that need to be dealt with.
No, I was talking in general about that part... I've been playing PC games since 1991. Not every game I've ever played has crashed at some point, but a good number have... and a lot of those bugs weren't patched. WCIII? No idea why it crashed a few times, but it did... did system instability help bring it down? Maybe, but who knows... I know it's not perfect (that is I'm not the only person who has ever had it crash)... same with SC... I mean, it seems to me that someone who plays lots of PC games and says "they almost never crash on me" is the exception, not someone like me who says "they do every once in a while"...
System crashes, that's different. I know my computer does that more than most, because it's a 4 1/2 year old computer running WinME that has built up all kinds of stuff over the years. Now, I keep it in as good shape as I can (with an average user, the thing would probably have been considered 'broken junk' a few years back, with some of the problems it's had), and keep spyware/viruses/etc off, but still, yeah, it's not exactly stable to say the least. Oh well, I'm used to how it runs... we understand eachother, I think. :)
Quote:I can use my computer for months on end without a single crash. What happens between those months? I happen. I experiment with my computer a lot, and sometimes I get some... unpleasent results .
Yes, probably the problems I have caused to my computer have been almost as numerous as the random errors or problems that I did nothing to set off... like when I tried to fix my soundcard drivers and ended up deleting them and having to delete and reinstall my soundcard from the system devices... or how I keep hoping NVidia's latest drivers will actually work and not crash my system repeatedly as all of their drivers from the last few years have... and then I have to uninstall them and reinstall good old 41.09... :)