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+--- Thread: nintendo DS revealed! (/showthread.php?tid=1908)
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nintendo DS revealed! - N_A - 14th May 2004
Not competing graphically with the PSP in the sense that it has already lost that aspect of the competition, not that it is not a factor into who retains dominance, and dominance of the handheld market is still Nintendo's only existing springboard with which to provide financial assets to regain console market dominance. Hence, as Mr. Yamauchi said, if Nintendo looses with the DS, Nintendo is out of the scene.
I continue to see it as a big problem because Sony can exploit the same marketing and 3rd party strategy that it did with the PSX against the N64. You and I know very well that good games don't require FMV and all those snazzy graphics. However, thats not what Sony's market dominance is about. Sony's market dominance has been about graphics, fanservice, and putting down other consoles by ridiculing them and paying off other companies to slander Nintendo as kiddy and work with Sony exclusively. Sony's market dominance is not about promoting innovative gameplay and neither is its following very interested in innovative gameplay either, otherwise they wouldn't be buying Sony products.
Because the PSP is graphic intensive, Sony can exploit the fact that its got more space in its campaign against Nintendo. What is different about the handheld market is that the power of handhelds tends to be lower, and you just don't get the same experience as you do with a console. Simply said, while Nintendo has innovative stuff on the DS, the Sony can use its existing popularity and momentum to grab the intiative off of Nintendo's hands and redefine the handheld console market as literally a current generation PORTABLE CONSOLE MARKET - in otherwords, the PSP is now a portable PS2, and in contrast, the DS is not a portable GC, its just an N64, despite the extra screen. On intitial evaluation by the average console gamer (who today is quite obviously a PS2 gamer) its quirky and its not down to earth and it doesn't have what they've been impressed with on the PS2, which are seemingly non-kiddy games, good looking up to date graphics, movies, and all the franchises of the PS2, etc. The average console gamer who until now has only been offered the GBA or refused to even get into the console market because it just wasn't impressive enough, have all now been offered something they've been looking for, a real full on console, thats portable. Sony will definitely push this aspect of the PSP with developers and setting the tone of the handheld market. The DS, because of its technology, while in the same category of competition with the PSP, cannot directly compete against it given the new market setting and the evolution of the target audience.
While the DS is initially impressive and over the top with innovation compared to the PSP, all Sony has to do once it enters the market, is push the market in a different direction of down to earth, storage space and technology intensive gaming and the DS won't be able to match that. If you ask me, what Sony is doing is more immediately appealing, and is a simple plan that will sell.
What Nintendo really needs in this time might not be an experiment such as the DS. What they need is a more down to earth, practical solution, which is a next generation Gameboy which can do what the Gamecube does and more to compete directly with and defeat the PSP - not something thats completely off in lala land. Unfortunately, unless Nintendo has that secretly in the works, they might just loose the handheld market initiave to the PSP if they release the next Gameboy later than the PSP does.
As much as Nintendo is a traditional art of war corporation, they're forgetting one of many things Sun Tzu emphasized... simple plans work, complex ones backfire.
nintendo DS revealed! - alien space marine - 14th May 2004
What will happen to nintendo if they lose the Portable market they have dominated for more then a decade.
Nintendo could still fight with the GBA, It has a pretty large libary of games and thats what there gonna need to fight the PSP,Sure the GBA is inferior so was the Psx vs the n64.
Quote:Its like this, just because some fundamentalist Christians believe the Sun revolves around the Earth doesn't mean that it does that because they ignore modern science.
I find that hard to believe, But it has absolutely nothing to do with the bible ,this belief is all Church Jargen made by the Pope.
nintendo DS revealed! - Great Rumbler - 14th May 2004
Actually it was lack of games that killed the N64, it had virtually nothing for the first YEAR besides Mario 64.
Quote:Wha?
Did you just diss ICO?
-10,000 cool points for GR.
*tsk tsk tsk*
And I had such high hopes for you...
Actually I was making the girl's inability to run away from the stupid shadow things [and my frustration of it] into a joke. ICO's a cool game!!
nintendo DS revealed! - OB1 - 14th May 2004
I know, I know, I too laughed at PA's strip. But they voted it as one of best games of the year, or the best, I forgot.
*returns cool points to GR... for now*
nintendo DS revealed! - Great Rumbler - 14th May 2004
Quote:*returns cool points to GR... for now*
That's right!
nintendo DS revealed! - N_A - 14th May 2004
Lack of games was one of the N64's killing points, but that lack of games was contributed to the fact that developers were simply lured over to the PSX for reasons that have been discussed above.
As I am trying to say, Sony's similar strategy can applied and exploited against the DS, in the end slandering the system as a gimmick thats just a child's toy that can't handle the games that mainstream gamers want. In reality it might not be, just like the N64 might have been a great system with games that were a whole step above anything on the PSX except on terms of FMV, but it can still be perceived and effectively destroyed by the same kind of methods discussed.
Several conditions do not bode well for this system:
- its not down to earth, not in touch with the average gamer
- its not capable of direct competition with the PSP
- its image can be exploited as gimmicky, incapable of a real game experience, whether or not that is a reality
- Sony will most definite pull much power from spill over userbase from its console, something Nintendo does not have in comparison
- a good deal of Gameboy users will switch over to the PSP since they were on the average, exclusively Sony console fans - given the choice now, they will choose Sony. The PSP's simple entrance invariably means loss of marketshare for Nintendo.
- games might be complex in one fashion on the DS with its screen features, but the PSP will have its own complexities with higher tech power and storage space
And developers will buy into that kind of stuff because they still do. Once the developers prefer a system its kind of over for the other ones. Then it spirals because everyone jumps on the bandwagon.
Alien Space Marine, in backwards areas of the US and the rest of the world where people don't get any science or science is ignored due to Judeo-Christian cultural reasons, there are unbelievably, some people who believe the Sun revolves around the earth still.
nintendo DS revealed! - alien space marine - 14th May 2004
Quote: Alien Space Marine, in backwards areas of the US and the rest of the world where people don't get any science or science is ignored due to Judeo-Christian cultural reasons, there are unbelievably, some people who believe the Sun revolves around the earth still.
I heard some Mormons believe that the Dinosaurs are a hoax or some kind of conspiracy.
The churches have opend up to science , I know the Vatican owns a telescope observatory, Some Priests are also part time astrophysicists.
I think Modern science glorifies God and the Bible doesnt say anything about how the Sun and the earth and solar system works,But it was the first to say the earth was Round in the book of Isiah. I think these fundementalist are holding on too old middle aged traditions that are not truly Christian.
Id call it Middle aged theology.
nintendo DS revealed! - N_A - 14th May 2004
(a rather off topic, but modern science and Christian theology have fundamentally incompatible philosophy - ie the way of thinking is oppositional. Whereas science is strictly based on observation of the material world to derive truth of how the world works, Christian theology is by and large based on faith with already given supernatural answers to how the world works. Quite the opposite on all fields. Some scientists may believe in God, but science itself does not, because he cannot be observed, and the events that transpired in the Bible are in direct contradiction to history, archeology, biology, physics, astronomy, etc. Sociologically speaking, for this reason, the scientific revolution has gradually, surely, but slowly displacing Christianity in the developed western world. Unfortunately, it has some drawbacks. Morality has been tightly tied with Christianity in the west. With that being displaced by cold science, morality has no doubt slipped in the recent centuries in the west - especially since there is no secular or philosophical moral code as there is in the East, say Buddhism or Confucianism for example. Anyways, as to why the Sun is said to revolve around the Earth, its because the Church has always interpreted that when God held the Sun for some hours in the Bible for a battle to be swayed. Do remember that the Church punished Galeleo and many others for believing this to be false. This is in a time period where most other advanced cultures had already figured it out otherwise. What you say is true, some churches "open up to science." However, you must be aware that this is an evolution of changing intepretations of a Bible that is already vague on almost everything like Nostradomus. Fundamentalists are a different group of people who do not believe in evolving the intepretations. What is said is said, and said quite literally to them. They stick to what is traditionally the original interpretations, in otherwords, what the writers of the Bible meant the context of their teachings to be when they actually wrote them and passed on those beliefs in successive generations. So they believe they are in sync with what God really meant because of that. Again, what you view them to be incorrect as not truly Christian, to them you are the same. Its an arbitrary evaluation for both parties. Therefore, you must pardon the scientist comment in me, that this is pretty ridiculous, and allow me to paraphrase Einstein in his comment that Buddhism is the only religion he's seen that is compatible with science and fulfills the moral and spiritual gap that modern science has created in society.)
nintendo DS revealed! - alien space marine - 14th May 2004
If God made the Sun stand still , Then maybe it was the earth that was kept still and in that effect the Sun never moved in the sky. I think the Bible can not be taken literaly , for instance in Revelations they say Stars will fall from the sky to the earth in armegedon, But if someone had taken it literaly then they would think a literal star will fall from the sky, But really what the Apostle John was writing was solestrial bodies like meteorites, Ancient people believed that comets and meteorites were the stars scene in the sky falling down to earth, So we have to interperupt what their describing knowing well of there limited knowledge of the universe at the time.
Atleast the church finally apologized to Galeleo in 1980 for what their predecessors had done in the middle ages. The Church made up its own doctrine of the universe which was total shit that was outside the bible teachings nothing that Galeleo said contradicted the bible and it was not anti christian, The Church clergy was corrupt and still is.
nintendo DS revealed! - Great Rumbler - 14th May 2004
Take your religious debate elsewhere!!!
Let's take a look at things here:
PSP:
-Techincal power [always a plus for the average gamers]
-Large media
-MP3 player
DS:
-Dual screens [whether that's a plus or minus to the average consumer...]
-Wifi internet gaming [a HUGE plus for the DS]
-Voice/text communication
-Low sticker price [remeber these are handhelds not consoles, price is going to be a much bigger factor I think]
-Long battery life
As you can see both have their advantages, it just depends on what people are looking for. I have no doubt that the PSP is going to sell, but I think you give it a bit too much credit.
nintendo DS revealed! - Dark Jaguar - 14th May 2004
Here's my worry about the media. Skipping and disk damage. Sony seems to have solved the disk scratching issues with the disk caddy (bringing back memories of the earliest CD-ROMs). However, I'm still very concerned about the fact that a portable system is going to be jostled and realigned a LOT during play. Considering how faulty every single disk drive that has claimed to be capable of standing vertically has been in the past (what with gravity and all), I worry about how quickly the laser could misalign itself with all the off-angles people could be holding this in. Perhaps they have found a way to combat the whole issue; maybe the caddies will be holding the disk firmly enough in place so that gravity won't misalign it when held at an off-angle. I'll have to see it for myself to believe it though. Until then, I say carts may just be the better solution for portable gaming. Might be wrong, that's just what my experience has told me.
MP3 playback is something likely to be added later anyway. The GBA already has an MP3 player add-on. It IS an add-on though. Still, I really don't think many people seem to care about that. That feature certainly didn't seem to help the N-Gage, but then again that system had not a single exclusive game, and still doesn't I think, so I don't think even a cure for cancer built into it would have saved it.
Technical power, this could be a real sticking point, COULD be anyway. Depends on a few things. Certainly, if the DS is powerful enough over the N64, the programmers could really take enough advantage of the hardware that one might not notice, at first, until PSP developers take full advantage of that. Anyway, I think price is the thing. I haven't heard the set price of the PSP yet, but if it's more expensive than the DS, then I suspect the offset price would make up for it in the eyes of the commoner. Eh, I dunno...
Anyway, the innovative stuff certainly has my interest more than anything.
As for the medium, well it's likely not actually an SD card simply due to price I imagine. I just wasn't aware how different the format was. If it was JUST shape and memory storage format, and nothing technically different as far as hardware features, I'd still think using actual SD cards would be the better solution. As for your statements ABF, well first off, all you said was "why would they do that?", not "they wouldn't do that BECAUSE", and when it's JUST a question, even next to something else that's a problem, it basically just tells me you didn't even bother reading my reason why they would. It's not an all consuming reason to do so, but it is A reason.
Anyway, the format would be easy enough, IF IT WASN'T FOR STUPID SOFTWARE THIEFS. Otherwise, it would have to be some nonaccessible file. Ugh, honestly it's just sickening about this, and you claim it doesn't hurt anyone when pirates do that. Well, it hurt ME PERSONALLY. Besides that, one could take those cards and just download the data from kiosks in stores to them for cheaper than buying a brand new card with the game on it. It would be just like the olden days of the floppy disks and the Famicom Disk System add-on. I still think it would be cool if they did that, but oh well. Honestly, I am not Nintendo's accountant, I just want to have fun, so I don't care about their own personal risk in this.
No matter, as of now, it's still good enough that I want it.
nintendo DS revealed! - Smoke - 14th May 2004
I think DS can compete for now but Nintendo better hurry up with GBA2 with GameCube level graphics.
nintendo DS revealed! - A Black Falcon - 14th May 2004
Nintendo would have trouble winning if they just did equal consoles. Look at the Cube and the PS2. They think that they need to innovate to get an edge... and I can't say that they're really wrong. I think that the DS is by far a better move for Nintendo at this point than just a console that tries to match the PSP. That'd be a tough battle to win, even with the GB name, while this... they have a better chance, I think. People will be interested by the uniqueness and that will draw customers. Supposedly the DS has gone over very well with the people at E3, for instance.
"The DS is off in lala land"? You seriously think that? After this announcement, you insult it like that? With thinking like that no wonder you seemingly think the PSP will crush it! But most people would disagree, I'd say...
Quote:Several conditions do not bode well for this system:
- its not down to earth, not in touch with the average gamer
And the MORE EXPENSIVE PSP will be? The same PSP that seems to be less popular than the DS at E3? Umm... what in the world does this mean?
Quote:- its not capable of direct competition with the PSP
You underestimate the power of uniqueness that is well used (aka as opposed to connectivity or something like that).
Quote:- its image can be exploited as gimmicky, incapable of a real game experience, whether or not that is a reality
They could try, but who says that they'd succeed?
Quote:- Sony will most definite pull much power from spill over userbase from its console, something Nintendo does not have in comparison
True. Which is probably the biggest reason that the PSP will do well.
Quote:- a good deal of Gameboy users will switch over to the PSP since they were on the average, exclusively Sony console fans - given the choice now, they will choose Sony. The PSP's simple entrance invariably means loss of marketshare for Nintendo.
This I doubt. Oh, some will, but a large number? That depends on games. First, many will continue to get some GBA games because so many great ones are still coming out. And second, the DS is aiming closer to the market the PSP is than the main GBA market, which is younger. And they don't expect everyone with a GBA to go out and get one, or plan to stop making GBA games -- everyone seems to be forgetting that "third pillar" stuff. Oh, sure, it sounds strange, but I really do think that they mean to support all three at once...
As for the inevitable 'GBA doesn't compare to PSP', of course not. But it has a HUGE market and is a great platform for some kinds of games, and will continue to do well on those strengths for some time.
Quote:- games might be complex in one fashion on the DS with its screen features, but the PSP will have its own complexities with higher tech power and storage space
I usually disagree, but here Nintendo is right. You really can't compare the two. Oh, you can in a marketing standpoint, because in many ways they are aiming at similar markets, but games-wise? A Nintendo said, any game type done on PSP can be done on DS. That is not true in reverse.
Quote:And developers will buy into that kind of stuff because they still do. Once the developers prefer a system its kind of over for the other ones. Then it spirals because everyone jumps on the bandwagon.
The rumors I've heard say that developers like the DS because of its uniqueness...
And yes, price, battery life, and Wi-Fi are all more things the GBA has going for it. I believe the PSP will have wireless multiplayer like the DS, but it won't have internet as far as I know... N_A, if you just look past the graphics and space there are many things the DS does that make it a perfectly good competitor. And I thought I was pessimistic...
nintendo DS revealed! - A Black Falcon - 14th May 2004
Quote:Anyway, the format would be easy enough, IF IT WASN'T FOR STUPID SOFTWARE THIEFS. Otherwise, it would have to be some nonaccessible file. Ugh, honestly it's just sickening about this, and you claim it doesn't hurt anyone when pirates do that. Well, it hurt ME PERSONALLY. Besides that, one could take those cards and just download the data from kiosks in stores to them for cheaper than buying a brand new card with the game on it. It would be just like the olden days of the floppy disks and the Famicom Disk System add-on. I still think it would be cool if they did that, but oh well. Honestly, I am not Nintendo's accountant, I just want to have fun, so I don't care about their own personal risk in this.
No, I disagree. It's not just about piracy. It's also about money. Let's think about it. As N_A says, these cards get expensive as they get big. Like with carts most companies want to save money. So, how many companies are going to get a card size much larger than they need just to leave a big block of space for downloading stuff? Because it'd have to be big, or it'd get very frusterating.
Right, that list has one name on it: Nintendo. No one else would, I bet. Or wouldn't do it more than once... honestly, if you want this (and I still see very little use for it), use either what Nintendo mentioned -- that is, Wi-Fi connections to a PC -- or some connectivity to Gamecube and there to a SD card, somehow. Either of those are much more realistic and much more likely to actually get any support from anyone.
nintendo DS revealed! - OB1 - 14th May 2004
The PSP will have wifi internet support. And you forgot to mention that it plays movies, GR.
nintendo DS revealed! - Dark Jaguar - 14th May 2004
Ya know, I really don't think Nintendo is ever going to actually produce that SD card adapter, so I really don't think that'll ever be an option. Anyway, I was under the impression that these carts were essentially alternate format devices, as I said earlier, and hence why I think they should just go all the way, since cost would already be the same. If it's just a large cart that really is cheaper to make like a GBA cart, then honestly I don't understand why they are being compaired to SD cards anyway. Lastly, yes I hadn't thought of that, wi-fi WOULD allow the same thing I'm thinking of.
nintendo DS revealed! - A Black Falcon - 14th May 2004
DJ, the SD adaptor was released in Japan and works with one version of Animal Crossing...
And yes, the wifi connecting to a PC does seem like an easier system, definitely.
OB1, okay, so they're equal on the wifi. But as for movies, it's obviously more likely on the PSP but didn't Nintendo say that the DS maybe could as well?
nintendo DS revealed! - Dark Jaguar - 14th May 2004
The Advance already is, though it's like short 15 minute Spongebob episodes... :D
Ah, I didn't know the SD adapter was FINALLY released. Here's the thing. The next Nintendo system should either use SD cards straight out of the box, or not at all. Not much point in an add-on to use an accesory (as the GBASP headphone adapter's stellar sales reveal).
One other thing, what did you mean by PSO opening a piracy backdoor anyway? I can't imagine Phantasy Star Online actually making it easier to pirate things. I mean, the game can't be pulled out through the online adapter or anything. That just sends some very small amounts of data.
nintendo DS revealed! - Smoke - 14th May 2004
I found this on Nintendo's press site. The username/password I posted elsewhere still work BTW.
Quote:Microphone: An available microphone port means that in the future, players might need only to tell their games what to do. DS software could identify everything from voice commands to hand-clapping. Players might be able to move their characters simply by telling them which way to go. The voice capabilities also could allow gamers to chat with one another over the Internet while playing.
nintendo DS revealed! - A Black Falcon - 14th May 2004
It's been mentioned here before. Before PSO no one could play pirated games on the Cube. But with it, there is a program that can connect the Cube, running PSO, to a PC and then get it to run a ISO... I don't know how, but PSO was the key. It was the first game to use the network and obviously they left a hole for something like this.
nintendo DS revealed! - OB1 - 15th May 2004
I know, the mic thing is so damn awesome, Smoke.
nintendo DS revealed! - A Black Falcon - 15th May 2004
My post was a response to DJ's, obviously.
And yes, that could be great, definitely... chat while playing multiplayer games on the DS...
nintendo DS revealed! - Great Rumbler - 15th May 2004
Or you could just use it to start a chat with some of your friends.
nintendo DS revealed! - Dark Jaguar - 15th May 2004
I'm fairly certain that it won't be long after the device is released before voice chat is implemented in DS games. XBox Live games NEED to have it due to MS's REALLY strict guidelines for anyone who decides to use Live. The PS2, though there's no requirements because Sony just has a "let it alone" attitude towards online play (which seems to work for Sony simply because they at least advertise that they CAN go online), still has some games support voice. I figure if a developer wants to, they'll do that with this as well. It's only a matter of lag...
nintendo DS revealed! - A Black Falcon - 22nd May 2004
http://gameboy.ign.com/articles/517/517932p1.html
No answers on if it'll play GB/C games, but it doesn't have a link port at this point for multiplayer GBA or below games...
Oh, and there's a picture of the card. :)
nintendo DS revealed! - alien space marine - 22nd May 2004
To bad the PSP doesnt have GBA backwards capability :evilha:
nintendo DS revealed! - Great Rumbler - 23rd May 2004
Too bad the PSP isn't backwards compatible with PS1.
nintendo DS revealed! - lazyfatbum - 23rd May 2004
Hmm... half the sales of the PS2 come it's backwards compatibility to PSX games... and yet the PSP has it's own system for storing games... so that Sony can get a little cut of every game made for it... and in the process will piss off every playstation owner in the process...
Excellent job, Sony Computer Entertainment. You are at the peak of your game, on the ball, ready for anything and capable of making huge, profitable choices in global business.
(for me to poop on)
If the PSP takes off, i'll be surprised. The GB has eaten the souls of every single hand held ever released. I think the GBA will even eat the DS. But time will tell.
nintendo DS revealed! - lazyfatbum - 23rd May 2004
Of course, you do realize that the PSP will have ports of classic PSX and PS2 games and sell them for full price on the PSP. Not unlike Nintendo's ports of classic games, Although Nintendo's ports of classic games on the GBA are more than 10 years old, sometimes 20 YEARS old and most kid/teen gameplayers today never played them simply because the NES and SNES can only be found on EBAY or in Pawn Shops. It'll have a totally different taste when you have to pay 30 to 40 bucks for a Playstation game that's only a few years old when you can find it in a bargain bin for 5 bucks for a system that's still being marketed and available in retail. But it could work.