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+--- Thread: Nintendo wins. Realistic Zelda + NDS is better then you ever imagined (/showthread.php?tid=1904)
Nintendo wins. Realistic Zelda + NDS is better then you ever imagined - UltraMarioMan - 12th May 2004
I AM SOOOOOOO printing that out and taping it next to my PC!!
Nintendo wins. Realistic Zelda + NDS is better then you ever imagined - Great Rumbler - 12th May 2004
Hahaha! :D
Nintendo wins. Realistic Zelda + NDS is better then you ever imagined - Sacred Jellybean - 12th May 2004
I heart that image!!!~~~
Nintendo wins. Realistic Zelda + NDS is better then you ever imagined - A Black Falcon - 12th May 2004
Tunic and tights was standard attire for a lot of people in the middle ages... :)
Nintendo wins. Realistic Zelda + NDS is better then you ever imagined - Great Rumbler - 12th May 2004
Yeah, that image is awesome.
Nintendo wins. Realistic Zelda + NDS is better then you ever imagined - OB1 - 12th May 2004
New Link looks soooo much better than SW2000 Link, SSB Link, and SC2 Link combined. Come on, don't even suggest otherwise. :nono:
But Shiggy Link detroys all of them! I want a Zelda game with Shiggy Link! Who's with me???!
Nintendo wins. Realistic Zelda + NDS is better then you ever imagined - Sacred Jellybean - 12th May 2004
Me!! I wish there was a Zelda body model in Perfect Dark, so I could stick Miyamoto's head on it.
Nintendo wins. Realistic Zelda + NDS is better then you ever imagined - OB1 - 12th May 2004
Now someone needs to find some good Reggie pictures.
Nintendo wins. Realistic Zelda + NDS is better then you ever imagined - OB1 - 12th May 2004
http://home.comcast.net/~drozmight/reggie/
Nintendo wins. Realistic Zelda + NDS is better then you ever imagined - Dark Jaguar - 12th May 2004
Actually, looking at the boots in SC compaired to his boots in the new game, I think I prefer the new look. The big clunky boots fit the exxagerated features style of Link in OOT for example, but this seems to be more slender and super-tall style, FF8-ish actually.
Nintendo wins. Realistic Zelda + NDS is better then you ever imagined - OB1 - 13th May 2004
Link doesn't look like a girl. :)
Nintendo wins. Realistic Zelda + NDS is better then you ever imagined - A Black Falcon - 13th May 2004
No, he looks like a medieval person.
You know the Romans thought that only barbarians wore pants? :)
Nintendo wins. Realistic Zelda + NDS is better then you ever imagined - Great Rumbler - 13th May 2004
Reggie = Awesomeness.
Nintendo wins. Realistic Zelda + NDS is better then you ever imagined - OB1 - 13th May 2004
ABF, you were replying to me or DJ? Use quotes, dammit.
Nintendo wins. Realistic Zelda + NDS is better then you ever imagined - A Black Falcon - 13th May 2004
Quotes? But those are for... people who want to be understood...
Nintendo wins. Realistic Zelda + NDS is better then you ever imagined - OB1 - 13th May 2004
...
Nintendo wins. Realistic Zelda + NDS is better then you ever imagined - Great Rumbler - 13th May 2004
Nintendo wins. Realistic Zelda + NDS is better then you ever imagined - lazyfatbum - 13th May 2004
At least he's honest.
Nintendo wins. Realistic Zelda + NDS is better then you ever imagined - OB1 - 13th May 2004
So lazy, what do you think of the new Zelda?
Nintendo wins. Realistic Zelda + NDS is better then you ever imagined - big guy - 13th May 2004
i think i like it, but i also think i like big ass boots. you guys are all lame for thinking otherwise!!!! :shakeit:
Nintendo wins. Realistic Zelda + NDS is better then you ever imagined - Great Rumbler - 13th May 2004
From MSN:
Quote:realistic zelda!! gah!!!!!! *faints*
smoke this is exactly what we wanted
Now we get to have super realistic zelda and cel shaded zelda!
I'd say he's somewhat excited. :)
Nintendo wins. Realistic Zelda + NDS is better then you ever imagined - OB1 - 13th May 2004
:)
Nintendo wins. Realistic Zelda + NDS is better then you ever imagined - A Black Falcon - 13th May 2004
... right, OB1 missed our chat, didn't he...
Nintendo wins. Realistic Zelda + NDS is better then you ever imagined - OB1 - 13th May 2004
By that time my wrists hurt so much from typing at work and home all day that I couldn't stand to join a chat.
Nintendo wins. Realistic Zelda + NDS is better then you ever imagined - A Black Falcon - 13th May 2004
It was E3 (well, the day before, but that's the big day for Nintendo announcements...) so a bunch of people were there. :)
Nintendo wins. Realistic Zelda + NDS is better then you ever imagined - OB1 - 13th May 2004
Yeah I know.
Nintendo wins. Realistic Zelda + NDS is better then you ever imagined - -iLluSiON- - 13th May 2004
should have stuck with the overhead 2d view... that's zelda to me :(
Nintendo wins. Realistic Zelda + NDS is better then you ever imagined - Great Rumbler - 13th May 2004
Huh.
Nintendo wins. Realistic Zelda + NDS is better then you ever imagined - OB1 - 13th May 2004
Well there's a new 2D Zelda coming, you know.
Nintendo wins. Realistic Zelda + NDS is better then you ever imagined - Great Rumbler - 14th May 2004
It's The Legend of Zelda: Da Minish Cap!
Nintendo wins. Realistic Zelda + NDS is better then you ever imagined - Smoke - 14th May 2004
It'd be the funniest thing ever if the commercial for this new Zelda game were a remix of the Zelda rap performed by a real rapper. :D
Nintendo wins. Realistic Zelda + NDS is better then you ever imagined - OB1 - 15th May 2004
:D
Nintendo wins. Realistic Zelda + NDS is better then you ever imagined - EdenMaster - 15th May 2004
I'm trying to keep myself from getting too excited about this game. It looks incredible and I want it now...but...my mind keeps saying that the last time we got a new Zelda, we were promised this:
![[Image: zeldacube3.jpg]](http://home.online.no/~jarn-eli/zeldacube3.jpg)
...and we got this:
![[Image: zelda.jpg]](http://archive.gamespy.com/gssked/march16-march22/zelda.jpg)
Nintendo wins. Realistic Zelda + NDS is better then you ever imagined - OB1 - 15th May 2004
I'm very happy that we got Wind Waker, though I do agree that it was a dumb move to show off SW2000 Link and then SW2001 Link.
Nintendo wins. Realistic Zelda + NDS is better then you ever imagined - A Black Falcon - 15th May 2004
WW might not have gotten the reaction it did if in SW2000 they'd just shown cel Link...
Nintendo wins. Realistic Zelda + NDS is better then you ever imagined - Dark Jaguar - 15th May 2004
That was just an FMV in the end, and it ended up just being a small part of a long slide show. That was only saying "Oh, we tossed this together to show a Zelda game will eventually be on our amazing new Gamecube". They never actually PROMISED it would look like that though. This however, from what I can tell, is actually in-game graphics. It doesn't show any elements that make me think "FMV" and seems honestly like it's basically tapping the GCN and the WW engine to it's very limits. I just hope it isn't one of those "magically degrading games" that just sorta looks worse and worse as we get closer and closer to launch date.
Basically what convinces me is that they went on and on about how this game is coming along. Also, it obviously has a lot of work already in it. That first Zelda movie was basically tossed together. Look at that Spaceworld FMV, and you'll see it's really not the greatest quality, even compaired to in-game cinema scenes. It really does look amateur level. This however shows a LOT of work. It's pretty much a promise it'll be keeping this look in the end product. Note that the gameplay could change a million times, but then again we have no idea what the gameplay is like except for a few battle related things.
I sure hope this is set after Wind Waker, using that same Link... I guess I already said that...
Eh, anyway, I wonder what the enemy will be? If it's not Wind Waker's sequel, likely Ganon. If it IS, then it really couldn't be Ganon I suppose. Oh well, The Nightmares, Shadow Link, and Majora all show last bosses can be awesome without being Ganon.
Nintendo wins. Realistic Zelda + NDS is better then you ever imagined - Great Rumbler - 15th May 2004
I really doubt that this Zelda game will magically become something different.
Oh and I wouldn't worry about the graphics becoming less as it comes closer to release, the graphics are good but they're not FMV.
Nintendo wins. Realistic Zelda + NDS is better then you ever imagined - EdenMaster - 15th May 2004
Oh, don't get me wrong. Wind Waker was a great game, a very well done entry into the Zelda series. My only complaint is that we saw beautiful footage at Spaceworld, so that is what we assumed the next game would be, then we got the cel-shaded Wind Waker which, while good, wasn't what fans wanted. They wanted what they saw at Spaceworld.
Nintendo wins. Realistic Zelda + NDS is better then you ever imagined - Dark Jaguar - 15th May 2004
I know it's not FMV, but I'm talking about something like Fable, where as time went on, they kept having to alter the game to get it to work flawlessly on the XBox. Still are doing that. Fortunatly, they seem to have reached exactly the level the XBox can do. While not FMV, I wonder if this is actually running on GCN hardware (making it the best looking game on the system if you ask me), or is just what they have done before actually optimizing it for the GCN.
Nintendo wins. Realistic Zelda + NDS is better then you ever imagined - OB1 - 16th May 2004
When has a Nintendo game ever looked progressively worse as development went on? They always look better. The early Fable stuff wasn't even running off an X-Box, but this Zelda clip was running off a Gamecube.
Nintendo wins. Realistic Zelda + NDS is better then you ever imagined - lazyfatbum - 16th May 2004
It's kinda funny that people bring up WW as an example of bad graphics. It's the best cel shading anyone is going to see this generation and maybe the next. I've heard tech-heads argue that the XBox cant do cel shading to the level that WW did on Gamecube. I mean like it or not, believe it or not, WW is a major accomplishment and uses high-end architecture in hardware and software to create highly advanced graphics and is arguably a showpiece to the abilities of EAD as technical and visual artists.
I can see what's going to happen... Nintendo is going to stray from the WW style like it never existed and focus on the realistic Zelda. Which is fine, I love both styles. But WW is like... it's like retro and brand new at the same time. It feels, looks and plays like the very first 8 bit Zelda in beautiful 3-D.
I really hope the style stays as a series. Did you guys notice that all the 2-D Zelda's from Four Swords on out are using the art style of WW in 2-D? It's so awesome, and plus, every single game except OoT Link is a young boy... not a young man. I mean nothing beats seeing and playing a game that does it's best to look like real life, the new Zelda is at a point where it's photo realistic and manages to have an awesome artistic flare as well. 30% OoT, 10% Lord of the Rings and 10% Wind Waker and 50% stuff we've never seen before. It's going to be awesome.
But i'm going to miss seeing that little Ninja Link that spins his sword so hard he gets dizzy and makes all those funny facial expressions. The Link in WW hard arguably more personality than any other Link.
Nintendo wins. Realistic Zelda + NDS is better then you ever imagined - Dark Jaguar - 16th May 2004
Okay lazy, I have to be a stickler on a few things. First off, Link was a young man in Zelda 2 as well. It says so in the inscruction manuel, and it's also obvious due to him being as tall as the adults in the game, not the children in it. He was also a young man in Link's Awakening, though that couldn't really be shown except in illustrations.
Wind Waker's look is truly amazing actually. The entire art style from the shading to the modelling is obviously, to me anyway, meant to resemble old world drawings back before 3D perspective, but it IS in 3D, so you know, it's cool. I came to this stunning realization however only because of the game's intro, where it was showing a mural of the Ocarina of Time legend using that same art style, and then getting into the game, realizing all the models have that same exxagerated arm length and faces and such, I immediatly liked it. As I'd said, it was never the celshading I didn't like, it was the modelling, but realizing what they were going for changed my mind on that.
lazy, I will say that Wind Waker, while fun, was somewhat incomplete and too easy for my tastes. I think they should revert to the first hint system, well, maybe not the old man, but the occasional owl statue or large tablet with a cryptic clue inscribed on it. Those were the best, because while it did reveal secrets, it did it in a way you had to interpret. So, it'd say like "The answer lies in the stars above.." and you're all like 'What?", and then suddenly it hits you, "OOOOH!! Stars ABOVE!". "Hints" like "HEY! Look at that stalagtite, don't you have something that could knock it down forming a bridge to the other side where you have to lure Armos Statues onto 4 switches in an order I'll tell you when we get there?" are just far too blatent. Give hints, but make them CRYPTIC hints I say. A nice code to break.
Anyway, I don't think Nintendo will stray from it like it never existed. I think they are just going to continue trying all sorts of different artistic styles. One of these days, we'll see something resembling Picasso :D. I know I'd love seeing the people's reaction to "nose above left eye Link"! The artistic style they use I think will ALWAYS be based on what they think best expresses the story and gameplay, as it should be.
About Four Swords, yeah I loved WW's look in FS from day one. I thought it looked amazing. Four Swords Adventures however seems to be using LTTP's art style (which I can't really relate to any real world style at the moment) mixed with a sketchy chalk drawing art style. I love that too.
Here's the thing, I'm fine with whatever artistic direction they decide to take the series in. However, they really need to focus on returning the challenge to the game. I don't want the game constantly bashing me over the head with the answers any more. As I've said, even the items started solving puzzles for you, what with that hook shot's "GRAPPLE HERE YOU MORON!" icon and such. Delaying the game a little longer to add some more dungeons to it is also something I can stand. The delays are only for a few months, but the game is set in stone after that point. Now, I won't pretend the game was as lacking in any sort of real puzzles as Star Fox Adventures was (Seriously, when the game has icons hovering over ALL action points, and the second you try selecting an item it automatically selects the right one from the list, how can you possibly be stumped by ANY puzzles?), but it did cross the line into "too easy" territory. OOT sorta hovered near it, but it still had plenty of stumpers that lacked any hints at all so it was fine. That was the first to stop giving the cryptic hints I loved though... Return those, and let little kids get stuck in the game. I mean, I was a little kid and loved it when a game stumped me, and that's how Zelda and other adventure games that had puzzles got so very popular to start with. Don't take what made it popular to start with away on the hunch it might increase sales even more. You'll alienate the fans at a certain point.
Eh, anyway, rant over, just restating my old opinions for reminder.
Nintendo wins. Realistic Zelda + NDS is better then you ever imagined - A Black Falcon - 16th May 2004
Just one thing: Link, in the artwork, is the same age in LA as he is in LttP. The LttP Link is also older.
As for the rest, I think I've (and everyone else) said enough times now all the various ways I found the game too easy and flawed... good game, but because of difficulty and length (as in, the stupid Triforce hunt is a bad replacement for two dungeons) it is flawed. But the graphics are great. I wouldn't have minded if the next title kept the WW graphics... what I really want is a return to a more challenging game design.
Nintendo wins. Realistic Zelda + NDS is better then you ever imagined - Dark Jaguar - 16th May 2004
Nor would I, though I would expect them to eventually try some new art style. I expect the same after this, eventually. The important thing is that they keep coming up with new ways to express the game visually.
And yes, we both agree that challenging game design is the most important thing. Challenge isn't EVERYTHING mind you, but it IS important.
Nintendo wins. Realistic Zelda + NDS is better then you ever imagined - A Black Falcon - 16th May 2004
WW didn't really do much ELSE wrong, so there's only so many flaws I could be talking about for them to improve... :)
Challenge, more dungeons, and no stupid Triforce hunt...
Nintendo wins. Realistic Zelda + NDS is better then you ever imagined - lazyfatbum - 16th May 2004
Link's version history:
Nintendo wins. Realistic Zelda + NDS is better then you ever imagined - lazyfatbum - 16th May 2004
I made this to show you that Link is usually a young boy.
Link was only an adult once which we saw in Ocarina of Time. This was the first time Link became a man with pubes and esophageal burning.
In Zelda 2: The Adventures of Link, he was still a child, well, a teenager. This is probably why you think he was an adult since he had things such as knees and elbows which he didn't previously have. I would agree that he is slightly older, but still not an adult.
The Link used in Link's Awakening is the same model used in the Oracle series and you can clearly see he is a child, even in the artwork it's showcased that Link isn't an adult - Probably the same age as Zelda 2's Link. In the 12 to 14 range.
Young Link from Ocarina of Time was reused in Majora's Mask. Link is 11 years old as Young Link. Young Link is the character we all know and love from almost every Zelda game. In almost all adventures, it is mentioned that Link is "the age of becoming a man" or puberty. But not passed it.
In Wind Waker, Link is 11-13 years old. So is Zelda.
So there you have it. In every game but one (not counting the yet unnamed GC Zelda), Link is in the range of 11 to 13. In OoT he became 18 years old only because of the Triforce that knew he couldn't defeat Ganondorf as a child.
And... I’m spent. *twiddles thumbs*
Nintendo wins. Realistic Zelda + NDS is better then you ever imagined - Dark Jaguar - 16th May 2004
To quote the instruction booklet for Zelda 2:
Quote:"One day, a strange mark, exactly like the crest of the kingdom, appeared on the back of Link's hand as he approached his 16th birthday."Also, those pics show what I'm talking about. It's not his elbows and knees. Compare him to the sprites of townspeople and then to children. He is as tall as any adult, and twice the height of all children. Compare him to all the adults and then to the children, and there are plenty there to compare to, and you'll see he is easily adult size, and looks like an adult. He's just a bit taller than a number of the townspeople too. Finally, everyone TREATS him like an adult in the game. There is another quote here for you. This from a scroll Link was given when the crest appeared.
Quote:"I have decided to cast a spell on all of Hyrule. A crest will appear on a young man with that character who has been brought up correctly, has gained many kinds of experiences and has reached a certain age.My point here is that the crest was only to appear when he had become old enough.
Another note, in OOT we have no idea how old Link was as an adult. It's never stated that he's 11 at the start of the game, so we couldn't know if he's 18 or not. Considering the whole 18 thing is just our world's deal, I would suspect it could be a couple years younger, maybe older but then his young form wouldn't be that young. All things considering, I'd wager 8-10.
As for LTTP and LA, well the instruction booklet pictures would lead me to believe he's an adult there too. That's obviously drawn in Japan in all the booklets, so it's not just American mistranslation. Of course, I suppose it could be ignored and he could have just been 13 or so. Anyway, my point is that Link was most certainly almost 16 in Zelda 2. That makes him an adult, by most standards of the times this world was sorta modelled after. He's been an adult before OOT, and Zelda 2 was definitly it. Young Link in Zelda 1, adult Link in Zelda 2. Worked out well. Also the booklet for Zelda 2 makes it very clear that the Link in Zelda 2 IS the Link from Zelda 1, only grown up. It's stated in terms that can't be taken any other way.
Here's the thing, Miyamoto has been quoted to say a LOT of conflicting things about Zelda, but in the end I must suffice it all to be a result of bad translation. I can see how a few grammar steps here or there could easily be taken the wrong way by a not so good translator. Anyway, in those first Zelda games, the booklets told much of the story, and while they could be bad translations themselves the illustrations fit it, and they are obviuosly Japanese pictures, because at the time whenever a company decided to change illustrations when translating a game, we'd get something like the Megaman 1 cart art.
Nintendo wins. Realistic Zelda + NDS is better then you ever imagined - A Black Falcon - 17th May 2004
Huh? As DJ says, I'd take that artwork to show that before OoT, Link had never been a young boy. There are really two ages for Link, child and teenager. He's a child only in OoT and WW; in all the rest, he's a teenager. There is no other explanation. Oh, and it's not a mistranslation when what we're basing it on isn't the words but the ingame and manual art!
Sorry, a bit wrong. He's also a child in the two Oracles games. But he's definitely a teenager in LoZ, AoL, LttP, LA, and OoT.
Nintendo wins. Realistic Zelda + NDS is better then you ever imagined - Dark Jaguar - 17th May 2004
No no, the artwork for Zelda 1 clearly shows that he FIRST appeared as a child. Zelda 2's artwork showed him all grown up, and the story did too. Just looking at the illustrations in the Zelda 1 booklet reveals he was CERTAINLY a young boy.
Here's a quote in the Zelda 1 booklet that shows he's certainly considered a boy, not a man, in that game.
Quote:All was not lost, a young <b>lad</b> appeared.
Just goes to show you, you SHOULD "look up the manuel for details". :D
Now, LTTP is a mystery, what with the illustrations saying one thing, and the voice they added to LTTP being young Link's voice saying another (usually that being "uwahaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii"). So, I'd say that LTTP had him in that mid-range that lazy was talking about.