Tendo City

that's aged like rotten cheese.

GENTLEMEN, allow me a sliver of your time to go on a Rolfean rant about this turd.

I put this game on my list a few weeks ago when I remembered that it existed and is probably available on the newer consoles. Never played it, have seen it praised as having a good soundtrack, seemed to be a generally-agreed-upon classic, yadda yadda.

Alright, I fire it up, not bad, pretty solid Castlevania. First craw-stucking was when I died and the game said GAME OVER LOL, back ye to the title screen Beanjo! Eh, okay? I guess this is what they were doing back in the day. Pretty annoying to have to wait for this game to slowly and deliberately load, as though it were some meaningful ritual and not a waste of my time and child-like impatience.

But it got even more annoying when I realized that my items, exp points, and map progress were all wiped. Well, that's annoying! Save points aren't exactly plentiful, so even if you stop at each one, there's a pretty good chance that something like 15 minutes of progress will be thrown down the toilet*.

But what REALLY bites my nuts is that after the third time or so this happened and left me incensed, I realized that a big part of the problem is that there's no fucking way to get health between save points. I got a turkey... once...? in the two and a half hours that I've played. 20% of which was from wasted progress on an outdated saving system, from cavemen that didn't have the robust imagination that with the powerful technology of PS1 and save cards, it's trivial to move beyond NES limitations and record a bit more information beyond a snapshot in time. We're not confined to passwords anymore here, people!

Not only do turkeys and hot dogs or whatever Alucard eats not drop, you can't even fucking buy them. ??? what ??? You could even do that in Castlevania 64, and that game was hot garbage gobbled down by gremlins and shat into Mordor. But respect to the librarian shyster, 'cause it was pretty funny to watch him say "why gosh Alucard I could NEVER betray the master!" and quietly rub together his thumb and forefinger under the table to tell Alucard to cough up his gold that, for yet-unspecified reasons, is hidden inside candles.

Oh, and by the way, what the bloody flying fuck does Quick Save do? I thought "ooh, here we go, maybe this will smooth things out," but nah it still erases your progress. Not sure how much exactly but enough to make it pointless. I got in a few good rooms but the progress still disappeared, this time immediately, instead of having the courtesy to wait for me to die. BACK YE TO THE TITLE SCREEN. **

Anyway, this game sucks shit but I'll probably suffer it a bit longer because it's maybe just fun enough play.

BUT LET IT BE KNOWN BY THE AUTHORITY GRANTED TO ME BY ME AS A WHINY LITTLE CRUMB-BUM THAT I AM NOT IMPRESSED

* that's how you guys poop right? No flushy, just hurl the feces into the bowl in the hopes that it hits its target and makes its way down the pipes

** Okay after a bit of googling (done through duckduckgo because google is hot steamed sausage links out my ass) it seems that you can use this in the marble rooms as a make shift save spot, otherwise it's kinda pointless. And it's still irritating to disrupt gameplay and, for reasons beyond my limited comprehension of cavemen culture, go back to the title screen any time you have to do this. Verdict is, this game's save system still sucks my smegma.

By your mention of "quick save" I'm assuming you're playing something other than the PS1 version, since that was a feature I THINK was added in the latest modern console ports.

In any case, I think that there may have been a miscommunication here.  This is what the industry has decided to call a "Metroidvania", the first time the Castlevania series went in that direction.  The idea behind it is to have a single massive map full of secrets and obstacles that require finding new powerups to overcome.  All the Metroid games play this way, for example.  You have one life, maintained by finding save points dotted throughout that map.  Healing in SOTN is done through the save points themselves, though yes, limited healing items are also available.  It's a risk/reward setup, wherein you can try to keep pushing forward or make a little progress, then head back to the save point to heal up before heading out again.  Metroid games all do the same, and up until Zero Mission they didn't even do the courtesy of healing at save points, instead having dedicated "healing" and "ammo" rooms that also had to be found.

I'm sorry if this all comes across pretty obvious, it just seems from your review that the sub-genre is rather new to you.

Nah, it's cool. To me, Metroidvania-style games have more been defined by exploration, and getting upgrades to give you new abilities/powers that let you explore further, and defeat more powerful enemies. I could swear that more modern entries to the genre that I've played, like Axiom Verge and Ori and the Blind Forest, at the very least let you keep your map progress, but I might be wrong. For the latter, you can save practically anywhere. So whatever progress I lost might have been so infinitesimal that it didn't stand out to me for more than a moment's frustration.

I did a replay of the first two Metroid Primes last year, and when I died, it was invariably from a boss fight, shortly before which there was a save point. So, funny enough, this is probably more of a staple of the genre than I remember, and it's only far more glaring because I suck at SOTN. From where I sit, Metroidvania has never been about risk/reward and keeping track of save points. Maybe it's been something to suffer in the past, as a vestige of older games, but not something that comes part-and-parcel of the genre.

To give SOTN it's due, it can't be all that terrible, because I've continued to play it for hours. Part of the purpose of this post was having fun with airing petty frustrations, Angry Video Game Nerd style, so I admit, I was playing it up a bit.

I'll also cop to being dumb, because I didn't realize you could drink potions to regain energy, and they are indeed for sale from the sketchy librarian. They're pretty rare for enemies to drop, unfortunately, so you have to bone up on them. On the upside, it seems that enemies drop food more often later on in the game (it might be a matter of leveling up luck points). And re: the save points, there's kind of a rhythm to when they show up. When you arrive at a new area, if you do a "breadth-first search", that is, look through all the adjacent rooms, you can usually find a save room. So that at least made things easier.

To the game's credit, I like how it blends old-school 2D sprites with the occasional 3d object or background. Its soundtrack is better than average, and I can see why it's so popular. I particularly like the Church music. I also like that the triangle button makes you shuffle back. Unfortunately I forgot that it existed most of the time; it's just instinctual to mash on the d-pad in the other direction when you're dodging an enemy.

One thing that got on my nerves is that in order to use any item, namely food or potions, you have to assign it to the square or circle button. It's just a clunky way of doing things. Now that I type it out, I'm thinking the intent was to force the player to use the item during action. During the final boss battle (which, unfortunately, came up far sooner than I was expecting and was easy), it seemed I wasn't able to actually use a potion unless I dodged the Richter Belmont's attacks for long enough. That added challenge makes sense, it's just annoying, because it means you have to pause, swap out your shield and assign the potion, unpause, use it, make sure it takes effect, pause again, re-assign the shield, and continue the game. I think mapping it to a shoulder button might have been better.

There's no denying the controls are a little clunky, and the insistence of whoever's doing the port to swap the default controls every single game isn't helping matters.  It would help if, Dead Space style, there was a button assigned to use healing items.  It would still require that risk/reward of actually using the item in real time, but without having to cut away to the pause menu to reequip every time.

Dead Space really did have the best healing system.  The "heal" button simply uses the best healing item for the situation, meaning if you only need a little top-off, it'll use a low level healing item instead of a full-heal thingy.

Symphony is a classic, but some parts of the gameplay didn't age well. Playing Aria of Sorrow on GBA is basically playing SOTN if they had 7 years and a few attempts to really refine the formula. There are some obvious misses, like how you can only sell specific items designed specifically to be sold, while your inventory bursts with a hundred obsolete weapons and armor. Don't worry, by the endgame, you'll have like six different available means to cheese your way through anything the game can throw at you. The Shield Rod+Alucard Shield combo might be one of the most game-breaking things ever.

I have duel-wind sword thingies (whatever they were called) and that combo results in a basically invincible force field of "wind scar" based death.  Of note is how glitchy getting a full completion map can be, and in my case, I ALWAYS slip-slide right back into the hidden grate at the very start of the game for a few extra percentage points (and then wall smash glitch into the inverted version later on).  It does remind me of the extended "hidden worlds" of NES Metroid, and the crazed people going further and further to unlock all kinds of technically not-map map for higher and higher percentage is pretty fun to look at now and then.

Aria of Sorrow for the GBA and Dawn of Sorrow for the DS are my favorite one-two combo of Castlevania games though.  They really perfected the formula there.

Then we have the AM2R fan remake of Metroid II.  The official Nintendo remake is a good game too, but the fan remake does so much that I simply prefer it.  The link... is around, and fans keep upgrading it "takedown notice" or not.
https://archive.org/details/am-2-r

Then there's the other incredibly fun experience I've grown to enjoy:
https://samus.link/

Honestly, I've never played more than a few minutes of SotN.  I did play and enjoy several of the Nintendo DS Castlevania 'Metroidvania' games, but other than that I haven't really played the other ones.  I have liked a few metroidvanias, including those two and some Metroid games, but in general it's not a genre I play all that often since I prefer knowing where I'm going in a game instead of being expected to wander around until I figure out what to do... so yeah, I've played very few of the massive number of indie 2d Metroidvanias that have released over the last some years now.

As for SotN though, my general assumption has long been that it's probably alright but I'm not sure if I actually want to play it.

So I'm 13 hours and 177% of the way into this game and ready to eat my words. Hard to keep shitting on a game when I've felt compelled to google how to do this or that, and pick up advice on how to progress further into the game. I was disappointed by Richter's battle, not only because it was easy, but because it made the game so short. Which possessed me to complete more of the map for the sake of it, finding out about the catacombs, all that good stuff.

I eventually found that you could see/defeat an orb that's controlling Richter. As an aside, it seems very Japanese for someone to go in swinging at you so they can test your strength and prove you're worthy enough to beat a tougher enemy.

I hadn't expected the upside-down castle to be a full mirror of the existing castle, but I'm glad I can get more hours out of this game. I've just given the short range punch/dagger weapons a chance. I initially wasn't impressed by their lack of range, but since they're faster, it's been a boon to taking down certain tough enemies. It's been pretty rare for me to use a shield, so no great loss there: I just re-equip it when there are projectiles to ward off.

Annoying things: it's frustrating that not only do you need to equip healing items to use them, but that if you want to use more than one and press the button too fast, you'll waste them. omg are you kidding? But whatever, it's a minor inconvenience once you know about it.

And what's with the high potion's description being "heals about half your health" and giving me 100 HP, just one fifth of my total. Is this vampire math? >: (

Quote:There are some obvious misses, like how you can only sell specific items designed specifically to be sold, while your inventory bursts with a hundred obsolete weapons and armor

So much this. At least organize them so I don't have to scroll through a hundred of them to find something. Not to mention that most of the weapons/armor I pick up tend to be weaker than what I'm already wielding. I like the idea of picking up a multitude and varied amount of items, but takes some of the fun away when 95% of them don't make sense to swap out.

I'm a naturally bitchy person so it probably sounds like I'm down on this game, but I am having a lot of fun, otherwise I'd have washed my hands of it after defeating Richter. I'm kind of mixed on the fact that the game is less orderly than your normal metroidvania. Other games of the genre feel more intentional: to get to this area you have to defeat this enemy, which drops this power-up, which unlocks these other areas, rinse and repeat.

SOTN is more of a scattershot of areas and weapons that may or may not be useful. Part of me likes that the exploration is more spontaneous in this sense, and that the game is "subjective" in that you can choose what weapons you like and drift along without the game leading you on. I haven't played all that many Castlevania games, so maybe this is typical for them.

Last I played is Circle of the Moon, which I remember liking, and don't remember being as vexed as I was at the start of this one. Could just be me remembering it fondly, though... as much as I like to complain, I tend to remember enjoying the experience of something more than not.

(4th February 2024, 9:29 AM)A Black Falcon Wrote: [ -> ]Honestly, I've never played more than a few minutes of SotN.  I did play and enjoy several of the Nintendo DS Castlevania 'Metroidvania' games, but other than that I haven't really played the other ones.  I have liked a few metroidvanias, including those two and some Metroid games, but in general it's not a genre I play all that often since I prefer knowing where I'm going in a game instead of being expected to wander around until I figure out what to do... so yeah, I've played very few of the massive number of indie 2d Metroidvanias that have released over the last some years now.

As for SotN though, my general assumption has long been that it's probably alright but I'm not sure if I actually want to play it.

Life's already been figured out after all.  Just DO WHAT YOU'RE TOLD and life is easy!  Why doesn't everyone just do that?  The 50's perfected living and it can't and won't be improved upon.  There is nothing in this world a firm handshake can't get you.  The system's not the problem, YOU ARE!

That was a bit of a diatribe I just went on, sorry there.  But, a lot of Metroidvanias do "sign post" where you should go rather well.  Did you reach a dead end with an obstacle you can't get past?  Congratulations, you went the right way!  Now you know to come back here when you get a certain ability!

GR, I know what you mean.  SOTN is a legendary game, but there's whole sections that don't actually "do" much except provide an alternative but otherwise unnecessary path.  Circle of the Moon has a bit more "intentionality" in the map design, learning some lessons, but then again there's a massive section of the map DOMINATED by nothing more than the game's boss rush mode.  Later games would wisely cordon off the boss rush to a menu option.  Harmony of Dissonance did the reverse castle, but this time flipped left to right instead of upside down.  It's a great game worthy of it's praise, but I think Aria of Sorrow has it beat thanks to it's very flexible combat system.  There's even a chain-sword thingy that you can use if you miss the "whipping" style of combat from traditional Castlevania games.  Dawn of Sorrow takes that and improves upon almost everything... except the art direction.  Where all the games since Symphony have used this very nicely done renaissance painting inspired art style for everyone, Dawn of Sorrow loses that and just goes... "generic anime style".  I mean, whatever your stereotype of what "anime" is, that's what the portraits and FMV look like.  Portrait of Ruin manages to get a distinct identity again, but never quite captured that wonderful art run they had going.  The problem I have with Portrait is how much more linear the design is, with a bunch of different castle "levels" you visit.  Order of Ecclesia is also an amazing game that goes back to the unique ability system using like... back tattoos instead of souls, but also kind of has this broken up nature.

And then, well we have to address this.  The franchise died like literally everything else at Konami.  So, let's mention
https://www.gog.com/en/game/bloodstained..._the_night .
I think this one perfected the formula without actually being Castlevania, but it totally is.  It's basically a sequel to Order of Ecclesia, but with lessons learned, and a return to a singular massive map.

I forgot something very important: This is the box art Konami slapped together when they made the "best seller" release.

Quote:GR

I ain't Grumbler, yo

Quote:

lmao

I was jonesing for more Castlevania and bought the Advance collection and agree with this assessment:
 

Quote:Playing Aria of Sorrow on GBA is basically playing SOTN if they had 7 years and a few attempts to really refine the formula.

That is all. Map says I'm at 50% which is sad because I don't want it to be halfway over (even though the collection has two more games).

I'm liking that you can capture enemies' attacks. It's like gaining Megaman powers in a medieval setting, and they pop up randomly. I usually only stick to a few of them, but none of them feel superfluous, and they're generally fun to experiment with.

I like the soul capturing abilities for two reasons. One, it gives you a reason to try to find and defeat enemies, and two, it gives you a ton of freedom to play the game a bit differently, especially on NG+ when you start the game with most of the souls you collect. I love playing NG+ and using souls as exclusively as I can. Makes the early game a lot of fun!

I definitely recommend Dawn of Sorrow, as well. It's like 90% as good as Aria. Portrait of Ruin is maybe 65% as good, and it has some beautiful environmental art. The Victorian London level is just gorgeous to look at.

The first time through Aria of Sorrow, I used the "sword whip" because it felt most like standard Belmont controls.  In later times, I used all kinds of crazy weapons, including the sword in the stone, and since you are most assuredly the OPPOSITE of King Arthur, that involves swinging the ENTIRE Sword-in-stone setup, which is just hilarious to me.