27th August 2010, 10:41 AM
27th August 2010, 11:43 AM
Other M? Eh, I don't know, not so much...
27th August 2010, 3:21 PM
To expand, the story sounds bad and the gameplay not too interesting compared to Metroid Prime...
http://g4tv.com/games/wii/61992/Metroid-Other-M/review/
Sounds exactly like the kind of story I most hate. And the gameplay... I don't know, it's just never looked that great. My expectations were never particularly high. Still though, it is disappointing to think that they thought that THAT was the direction they should take the story in... I think the constant sexism in their stories is the thing I dislike most about Nintendo, even above their awful online play. Oh, and the Wiimote-only controls sound needlessly annoying. Just use the nunchuck like Metroid Prime Trilogy! Why in the world did they do it they way they did?
http://g4tv.com/games/wii/61992/Metroid-Other-M/review/
Sounds exactly like the kind of story I most hate. And the gameplay... I don't know, it's just never looked that great. My expectations were never particularly high. Still though, it is disappointing to think that they thought that THAT was the direction they should take the story in... I think the constant sexism in their stories is the thing I dislike most about Nintendo, even above their awful online play. Oh, and the Wiimote-only controls sound needlessly annoying. Just use the nunchuck like Metroid Prime Trilogy! Why in the world did they do it they way they did?
27th August 2010, 7:23 PM
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This video basically just describes her past, exactly as Super Metroid's intro did. It's pretty much what I expected her to sound like. She's not supposed to be completely disattached to everything around her like Master Chief or some other boring character, well at least not in my mind. It's hard to say if the rest of the game keeps that tone. I don't know what you mean yet by Samus being sexist ABF.
On the other hand, the direction of this story has some of the frustrations of Metroid 4 it seems...
http://arstechnica.com/gaming/news/2010/...review.ars
There's some mysterious voice that forbids you to use certain power ups. Yes, that gets the job accomplished at making me mad at the mysterious voice, but at the same time, I thought Samus was INDEPENDENT from Federation control, a volunteer, not a conscript. Yeah, that's annoying. I hope this won't be the standard way things work from here out. What this review didn't touch on is if there's a wide amount of exploration or GR's implication that it's a "tube quest".
This video basically just describes her past, exactly as Super Metroid's intro did. It's pretty much what I expected her to sound like. She's not supposed to be completely disattached to everything around her like Master Chief or some other boring character, well at least not in my mind. It's hard to say if the rest of the game keeps that tone. I don't know what you mean yet by Samus being sexist ABF.
On the other hand, the direction of this story has some of the frustrations of Metroid 4 it seems...
http://arstechnica.com/gaming/news/2010/...review.ars
There's some mysterious voice that forbids you to use certain power ups. Yes, that gets the job accomplished at making me mad at the mysterious voice, but at the same time, I thought Samus was INDEPENDENT from Federation control, a volunteer, not a conscript. Yeah, that's annoying. I hope this won't be the standard way things work from here out. What this review didn't touch on is if there's a wide amount of exploration or GR's implication that it's a "tube quest".
27th August 2010, 8:14 PM
-Lots of cutscenes
-Fairly linear
It's Metroid Fantasy XIII!
-Fairly linear
It's Metroid Fantasy XIII!
27th August 2010, 8:15 PM
Quote:I don't know what you mean yet by Samus being sexist ABF.
Did you read the review I linked?
27th August 2010, 8:56 PM
Nope, but as you know I tend to read few if any reviews on games I'm interested in, as I don't like spoilers. Did they ruin Samus' story or something?
27th August 2010, 9:00 PM
Well, despite the claims in the G4 reviews, a lot of people seem to like it well enough.
27th August 2010, 9:04 PM
The reviews are mostly in the 8's, yes? That's below what Metroid Prime got, so I do think it is getting more criticized than that was... but yes, many people like the gameplay. The story, though, seems to have fewer defenders...
Well that's the problem, how can I say anything without spoiling anything...
Quote:Nope, but as you know I tend to read few if any reviews on games I'm interested in, as I don't like spoilers. Did they ruin Samus' story or something?
Well that's the problem, how can I say anything without spoiling anything...
28th August 2010, 4:42 AM
Good point. At any rate, I'm interested in at least checking it out. Whatever the case, the game's the credit/faul of Team Ninja, so if the story completely destroys Samus as a character, I'm blaming them instead of Nintendo.
28th August 2010, 7:10 AM
Well, you should actually blame/praise Yoshio Sakamoto, the guy behind every Metroid game except Metroid II, since he's the one who directed the whole thing.
28th August 2010, 2:16 PM
I thought the guy behind Metroid 1-3 was dead...
28th August 2010, 3:15 PM
Gunpei Yokoi was involved with Metroid, Metroid II, and Super Metroid, as a producer and/or a designer on each one.
Sakamoto was probably the more important of the two to the actual creation of the games.
Sakamoto was probably the more important of the two to the actual creation of the games.
28th August 2010, 5:07 PM
Basically, the story/cutscenes are pretty terrible, sexism or not.
28th August 2010, 6:14 PM
Samus suddenly becomes incredibly self-doubting and semi-useless and for no good reason obeys the male authority figure? I would call that sexism...
28th August 2010, 6:23 PM
My point is that regardless of whether you view it as sexist or not, the storyline and cutscenes are still terrible. This isn't a case where those aspects are really, really god but, whoops, it happens to be pretty sexist so it's hard to enjoy them. No, it just a bad storyline and bad cutscenes that are also probably sexist too.
Basically a fail cake with a sexist cherry on top.
Basically a fail cake with a sexist cherry on top.
28th August 2010, 7:04 PM
So more like Twilight Princess, then, except without the "some of the best on the system" gameplay?
28th August 2010, 7:10 PM
I still don't get your Twilight Princess hate. The cutscenes with Zelda, except for where at the end where she got captured again and you had to rescue her, well all pretty well done. Also, there's Midna, who is definitely one of the better Zelda universe characters.
Pretty much everything about the TP story was pretty good, except for the ending where it got shoehorned into the "classic formula" and they decided that telling a compelling story wasn't really all that important and elements that could have been elaborated on to great effect were simply left to dangle.
Pretty much everything about the TP story was pretty good, except for the ending where it got shoehorned into the "classic formula" and they decided that telling a compelling story wasn't really all that important and elements that could have been elaborated on to great effect were simply left to dangle.
29th August 2010, 2:18 PM
I know I've said it all before, but why not again. The problem is that while they tried, TP's attempt at having a good storyline failed. Zelda was the most pathetic she's ever been in a 3d Zelda game, the way they dealt with the whole Zelda/Midna and Zant/Ganon things just do not work at all, Link's also pretty pathetic... the characters are not very well done. Midna is the only highlight in the game, and that's not enough.
When I was playing the game, it felt like it was really a game about Zant and Midna, and the main Zelda characters were just shoehorned into it. Supposedly that's not true, and Midna was actually added later on, but it definitely does not feel this way. It feels like it's Link, Zelda, and Ganon who barely have any reason for being in the game.
Link doesn't really seem to care, for whatever reason. It feels much more like he's just doing stuff because Midna wants him to than because he actually cares about anything, besides saving Colin and Ilia maybe... I don't know, I've never gotten this impression from a Link before. This is one of the less interesting Links. (And then you've got stuff like that researcher guy who wants to find the city in the sky and has dedicated himself to finding it. Link finds it, but evidently never tells the guy about it? How cruel... those three people working to save Hyrule were a nice touch to have, but didn't actually do much. Another thing about the game that could have been improved, maybe.)
Zelda... Zelda of course is utterly pathetic, more useless than in any other 3d Zelda. She's supposedly the crown princess, about to be crowned queen before the disaster happened, but she does nothing, pretty much. She sits, locked up in a tower, depressed. I'm sure that if she actually wanted to, she could do something. Link and Midna could get in, are you really saying that there was no way to get her out? Wouldn't she be able to do some good, oh, I don't know, trying to resist Zant and such? She is supposedly the leader. But no, she'd rather sit around in that tower, depressed over that she surrendered. You see her twice before the ending, and think that she's dead for half of the game, not that it makes any impact really on the story. Then suddenly in the end she actually does some stuff... too late, though. Zelda in this game was very disappointing compared to the OoT or WW Zeldas.
Ganon... the whole way that "it's not actually Zant, it's Ganon!" was stupid. It reminded me of the five or six Mega Man games with "it's not actually X, it's Wily!" stories, and it's just as lame here as it is there -- except I think we should have higher expectations for Zelda stories than Mega Man. Some aspects of his story were interesting, like how after OoT Link got back he was executed, and he's understandably pretty angry, so it sort of worked... but really, no. The big reveal being that "It's actually Ganon again!" was really lame.
Midna... mostly she's great, but my one complaint would of course be that she can't do much of anything on her own, she needs Link the great male hero to do most of the stuff for her. That does affect her character, I think. She's cool, but would have been better had she been more independently competent, as I think she is considering her power.
I mean though, the game is fantastic. The gameplay is exceptional, visuals beautiful, scenery and vistas and cutscenes often amazing looking... it's an incredible game. And they did try to put in a story. It's just that it failed, and that had a significant impact on how much I liked the game until I finally managed to mostly look past it.
If I was to complain about other things about it though, it is too bad that while much harder than WW it's still not quite as hard as OoT (only sending you back to the door of the room instead of the start of the dungeon when you die, for instance, has a huge impact), and that was disappointing. Also, the NPCs and other characters, while there were a good number of them, sometimes feel sparse -- Hyrule city's got very little to do in it, Kakariko's almost entirely abandoned and does not get repopulated after you defeat the monsters that were threatening the town, etc. It makes for a cool "ghost town" kind of thing, but not a great actual town in a 3d Zelda game. Also, the part of the game before you can change form between wolf and human at will is annoying, because you keep having to travel around on foot or on horse, keep getting railed from place to place, etc. It didn't fit with the Zelda series well, and it really wasn't until I got the ability to switch forms and the world opened up that I finally began to love the game. Before that point it just doesn't feel right -- and that is a LARGE part of the game, many hours and several dungeons long. Gameplay-wise, this is by far my biggest problem with the game.
Overall though I like the overworld a lot. It's large, but not too large, has a lot of interesting things in it to explore, and once you can go to all of it and warp around, is pretty fun to explore. I like the world, the graphics, the design, the wolf statue things to get more moves... the visuals and area designs are just so impressive, things like the huge bridges are incredibly cool looking. Hidden things like the underground tunnel dungeons (with limited light...) and "shoot 'em up gallery" secret Western ranch are awesome. And many of the dungeons are outstanding designs that both look and play amazing. Despite my many problems with it, it is in my top 5 Gamecube games for sure, and is better than The Wind Waker (or Majora's Mask), though not quite OoT. But it's definitely not perfect, and the flaws are significant. Of course no game is perfect, but still, some stuff about it definitely annoys me. The good points are stronger overall, but the negatives are real.
When I was playing the game, it felt like it was really a game about Zant and Midna, and the main Zelda characters were just shoehorned into it. Supposedly that's not true, and Midna was actually added later on, but it definitely does not feel this way. It feels like it's Link, Zelda, and Ganon who barely have any reason for being in the game.
Link doesn't really seem to care, for whatever reason. It feels much more like he's just doing stuff because Midna wants him to than because he actually cares about anything, besides saving Colin and Ilia maybe... I don't know, I've never gotten this impression from a Link before. This is one of the less interesting Links. (And then you've got stuff like that researcher guy who wants to find the city in the sky and has dedicated himself to finding it. Link finds it, but evidently never tells the guy about it? How cruel... those three people working to save Hyrule were a nice touch to have, but didn't actually do much. Another thing about the game that could have been improved, maybe.)
Zelda... Zelda of course is utterly pathetic, more useless than in any other 3d Zelda. She's supposedly the crown princess, about to be crowned queen before the disaster happened, but she does nothing, pretty much. She sits, locked up in a tower, depressed. I'm sure that if she actually wanted to, she could do something. Link and Midna could get in, are you really saying that there was no way to get her out? Wouldn't she be able to do some good, oh, I don't know, trying to resist Zant and such? She is supposedly the leader. But no, she'd rather sit around in that tower, depressed over that she surrendered. You see her twice before the ending, and think that she's dead for half of the game, not that it makes any impact really on the story. Then suddenly in the end she actually does some stuff... too late, though. Zelda in this game was very disappointing compared to the OoT or WW Zeldas.
Ganon... the whole way that "it's not actually Zant, it's Ganon!" was stupid. It reminded me of the five or six Mega Man games with "it's not actually X, it's Wily!" stories, and it's just as lame here as it is there -- except I think we should have higher expectations for Zelda stories than Mega Man. Some aspects of his story were interesting, like how after OoT Link got back he was executed, and he's understandably pretty angry, so it sort of worked... but really, no. The big reveal being that "It's actually Ganon again!" was really lame.
Midna... mostly she's great, but my one complaint would of course be that she can't do much of anything on her own, she needs Link the great male hero to do most of the stuff for her. That does affect her character, I think. She's cool, but would have been better had she been more independently competent, as I think she is considering her power.
I mean though, the game is fantastic. The gameplay is exceptional, visuals beautiful, scenery and vistas and cutscenes often amazing looking... it's an incredible game. And they did try to put in a story. It's just that it failed, and that had a significant impact on how much I liked the game until I finally managed to mostly look past it.
If I was to complain about other things about it though, it is too bad that while much harder than WW it's still not quite as hard as OoT (only sending you back to the door of the room instead of the start of the dungeon when you die, for instance, has a huge impact), and that was disappointing. Also, the NPCs and other characters, while there were a good number of them, sometimes feel sparse -- Hyrule city's got very little to do in it, Kakariko's almost entirely abandoned and does not get repopulated after you defeat the monsters that were threatening the town, etc. It makes for a cool "ghost town" kind of thing, but not a great actual town in a 3d Zelda game. Also, the part of the game before you can change form between wolf and human at will is annoying, because you keep having to travel around on foot or on horse, keep getting railed from place to place, etc. It didn't fit with the Zelda series well, and it really wasn't until I got the ability to switch forms and the world opened up that I finally began to love the game. Before that point it just doesn't feel right -- and that is a LARGE part of the game, many hours and several dungeons long. Gameplay-wise, this is by far my biggest problem with the game.
Overall though I like the overworld a lot. It's large, but not too large, has a lot of interesting things in it to explore, and once you can go to all of it and warp around, is pretty fun to explore. I like the world, the graphics, the design, the wolf statue things to get more moves... the visuals and area designs are just so impressive, things like the huge bridges are incredibly cool looking. Hidden things like the underground tunnel dungeons (with limited light...) and "shoot 'em up gallery" secret Western ranch are awesome. And many of the dungeons are outstanding designs that both look and play amazing. Despite my many problems with it, it is in my top 5 Gamecube games for sure, and is better than The Wind Waker (or Majora's Mask), though not quite OoT. But it's definitely not perfect, and the flaws are significant. Of course no game is perfect, but still, some stuff about it definitely annoys me. The good points are stronger overall, but the negatives are real.
30th August 2010, 9:28 AM
I've watched the cut scenes on youtube and all of them are beautiful. You start out a punky teenager at 17 working in the military with a commanding officer who wants you to succeed, yet Samus at 17 is a snot nosed brat who thinks she can do anything, then doubts herself and feels powerless when she is shunned. As she progresses and matures she leaves the military to discover her past and gains a newfound respect for her CO and the military. It is a natural progression that feels right.
The only person talking about sexism in this game is some fat chick on G4 who is probably angry at Samus being thin and wearing Chozo armor which are two things the fat G4 chick will never have. She will never be asked or told things like:
"Show me your panties"
"Can you send me nude pictures?"
"This belt is too small on me, will it fit you?"
"You have a nice (insert any body part)"
"You should get that two piece bathing suit"
"You are pretty"
"You made such a good choice on those tattoos"
"I'm jealous of you"
"there's PLENTY of cake left"
I cant believe its even being taken seriously by some people. It's Metroid, the goal (after the whole 'save the universe' thing) is to get her out of her suit and look at her ass and titties in skin-tight bikinis and unitards, that has been the goal since the first game in 1986. In Metroid Fusion/Zero Mission you can even collect still images of Samus Aran at various ages pressing her bubbalicious booty on to the GBA screen so hard that it actually sends you back in time to feudal Japan and you fight a snake demon with a diamond katana. Then the Prime series gives you multiple angled shots of her in her "I'm basically nude" Zero-Suit as rewards for collections and beating the game.
Get the fuck over yourselves and your insipid desire to portray classic characters as immoral because it shows a faux intelligence or a higher understanding - it makes you look like you have emotional problems. No one thinks your smart because you bring up that Superman has a penis and Louis Lane is constantly in need of his help. Nor does anyone nod in agreement that Metroid is sexist you idiot filled balloon of shame. NO ONE bats an eyelash at God of War's mini games to slam a stack of Lesbos or Bayonetta's demonic ass cheeks ritualistically killing devils with nudity. Yunno why? Because its sexy and sometimes funny and interesting which are 3 things ABF can never accomplish which is why he debates Zelda's moral integrity.
Show me the sexist cherry in Metroid: Other M Grumbler. I swear to God if you post something stupid I am going to permaban you.
The only person talking about sexism in this game is some fat chick on G4 who is probably angry at Samus being thin and wearing Chozo armor which are two things the fat G4 chick will never have. She will never be asked or told things like:
"Show me your panties"
"Can you send me nude pictures?"
"This belt is too small on me, will it fit you?"
"You have a nice (insert any body part)"
"You should get that two piece bathing suit"
"You are pretty"
"You made such a good choice on those tattoos"
"I'm jealous of you"
"there's PLENTY of cake left"
I cant believe its even being taken seriously by some people. It's Metroid, the goal (after the whole 'save the universe' thing) is to get her out of her suit and look at her ass and titties in skin-tight bikinis and unitards, that has been the goal since the first game in 1986. In Metroid Fusion/Zero Mission you can even collect still images of Samus Aran at various ages pressing her bubbalicious booty on to the GBA screen so hard that it actually sends you back in time to feudal Japan and you fight a snake demon with a diamond katana. Then the Prime series gives you multiple angled shots of her in her "I'm basically nude" Zero-Suit as rewards for collections and beating the game.
Get the fuck over yourselves and your insipid desire to portray classic characters as immoral because it shows a faux intelligence or a higher understanding - it makes you look like you have emotional problems. No one thinks your smart because you bring up that Superman has a penis and Louis Lane is constantly in need of his help. Nor does anyone nod in agreement that Metroid is sexist you idiot filled balloon of shame. NO ONE bats an eyelash at God of War's mini games to slam a stack of Lesbos or Bayonetta's demonic ass cheeks ritualistically killing devils with nudity. Yunno why? Because its sexy and sometimes funny and interesting which are 3 things ABF can never accomplish which is why he debates Zelda's moral integrity.
Show me the sexist cherry in Metroid: Other M Grumbler. I swear to God if you post something stupid I am going to permaban you.
30th August 2010, 9:46 AM
30th August 2010, 11:35 AM
30th August 2010, 12:33 PM
A Black Falcon Wrote:Why is it "feeling right" to have a storyline where a previously strong female character only gets validated through the approval of her male superior? I mean, considering what you've said about women before I expected you to defend this too, but it's absurd. Remember, though the backstory is set well earlier, the main game in Other M happens after the Metroid Prime trilogy, after Metroids 1 and 2... it's the second-to-last game in the chronology, only Fusion follows it. Considering that, Samus suddenly acting like that is ridiculous.
What male character would be treated that way? Even though the character has been though many games and always been competent and tough, suddenly they're taken apart, made weak and insecure, and more. It's either "cooincidence" or sexism, and I think it's pretty clear which of those it is.
***mild spoilers***
Resident Evil had several instances while playing as a male character you had to be knocked out of the way of something because you were frozen in fear. It makes a lot of sense to me that she has fought something in so many iterations and then meets it again to be confronted by her fear of having another clone of the space pirate general that killed her family right in front of her. In every Metroid when confronted with him it is always portrayed as shocking and jarring. I am going to assume in the context of the game she is remembering her past, focusing on old events, such as the invasion on k12 where her parents were killed. In that frame of mind she is more sensitive to the images that jolt her right back in the mind frame of that 7 year old girl.
Why does it feel right? Because after family was killed she was orphaned and picked up by a mysterious old man who is rumored to be the spirit of the Chozo who helps her and tells her to train. She joins the military at an early age full of piss and vinegar and ready to kill but makes stupid noob mistakes and is banished for, among other things, having no discipline. In Fusion Adam is dead, his cordal data (identity) was used in her ship's computer which sparks memories of him from her military days - she's constantly reminiscent of how different she was back then and how she had no discipline and wonders how Malkovich would see her now, if he would be proud. Why does she want that recognition? Because it was her COMMANDING OFFICER. Doesn't that make a whole hell of a lot of sense? She felt like she had no respect for the federation and that it was her character flaw, wishing she could have done it better yet at the same time indifferent to it all looking back.
On board the bottle ship in Fusion she had to re-learn that discipline, she couldn't be wily about it because this was property and she was also helping the federation. This proved nonsensical by the time she was faced with the final threats from the BSL incident, though. In the events of Other M she is confronted with 'old friends' from her military days on a military vessel, she has to obey orders. This is not the officially uninhabited Zebes or Tallon IV, nor is it Aether's ancient techno-ruins where she's told to do whatever it takes to bring down the dimensional vertices. It's the equivalent of her landing in Iraq and helping out US soldiers - she has to obey the commanding officers otherwise she will be doing more damage than good for the greater goal of assisting the soldiers. Why am I the only person that gets this?
It's a galactic federation just like in Star Trek, a conglomerate of governments from the entire galaxy all working together so of course the rules are strict when working directly with them. Samus has never been a rule breaker, she believes in rules and military precision. What she is, is a loner. She doesn't like having responsibility of other people. No tag-alongs, she doesn't even like the other bounty hunters a side from respecting their position.
Doesn't it make perfect sense?
30th August 2010, 12:45 PM
Lazy, I'll reply to some of that later, but did you read my two spoilered sections, that I added via edits?
1st September 2010, 2:39 AM
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Hey, a real review.
And no ABF i didnt read your spoilers. I even cover my eyes on the vids when its going to show something i dont think i should see. xD
Hey, a real review.
And no ABF i didnt read your spoilers. I even cover my eyes on the vids when its going to show something i dont think i should see. xD
1st September 2010, 10:37 PM
Okay my friend picked up the game and has been playing it. I've heard a lot about the start.
Firstly, the gameplay is actually done pretty well. The world hasn't "opened up" yet but it might. It's hard to say.
Secondly, ABF and the other reviewers are right, it's sexist. It's not even a little sexist, it's blatant. lazy, there's a lot of ways that Samus can be FORCED to work under this guy that wouldn't have been sexist. It could have easily been done in a way that shows just how oppressive it actually is, which would be a good message to get across. That's how Metroid 4 was done. Samus was working for the military, answered to Adam, but it was clear she HATED being forced into that position, and was only doing so out of necessity. Here she willingly turns over her autonomy right from the start for NO discernible reason except "she respects Adam" (the same Adam she'd have a lot more trouble working with in Fusion). I don't know how it goes on from there, and I don't really want to know. However, it's a terrible start and it's very sexist indeed. I blame team ninja. They've got a proven sexist track record, and whatever you may say about Yoshio Sakamoto being the director, he's never done this with Samus before. The track record points to Team Ninja. He may have directed it, but I doubt he wrote the script. Sure he's responsible for allowing it, but I put most of it right on Team Ninja for now.
Now MAYBE it'll turn itself around, but it'll be a hard act to pull off after starting out with Samus' "teen dream journal" as my friend put it, where she LITERALLY utters the line "confession time" before describing her respect for Adam. Ugh... Thanks for ruining a beloved character...
For the record lazy, when Kratos does something horribly sexist, it's acceptable because the entire game is, by design, one big testosterone shove. It flies because it knows what it is. More importantly, Kratos is NOT portrayed as acting like a good person. He's a self destructive enraged insane berserker who hurts everyone he comes across because he doesn't know anything except fighting. It's a tale of his internal chaos manifesting on the rest of the world by his own hands. To say his story is not heroic but "cautionary" is an understatement. He's a human trainwreck with a lot of victims, and he's a blast to play as. That's fine. Samus however is being portrayed in such a way that it suggests this is how she, and by extension ALL female hero types, SHOULD behave. I disagree with ABF on Zelda because she did the best she could given her situation, and she regretted being powerless rather than embrace it as her "role" (plus the moment she got the chance to take an active roll, she always did), and for that matter ALL potential heroes in all Zelda games are rendered nearly powerless by the plot. Darunia really was just as ineffective as Zelda in OOT for example (he did nothing but suck and get captured, Sheik did more than he did). It's a necessity to make Link the one and only heroic figure in the game, but in TW there are still plenty of strong females in it, from that cold hearted girl who escorts you up north to Midna herself (who's cursed, you can't blame her for not doing more when cursed). It's a matter of perspective though. I find Samus' dependence on military order in Metroid 4 acceptable because the story forces it on her, and that's my qualifications in these matters. Mario's different, in that it's a cartoon, so the eternal joke of "princess gets captured" actually becomes part of the charm. Sure I wish there were a few MORE games with something aside from that, but that's about it. I can accept an eternal return to form as part of the ongoing joke, just like I can accept Daffy Duck always ALWAYS getting the eternal shaft if Bugs makes an appearance in one of his cartoons.
Firstly, the gameplay is actually done pretty well. The world hasn't "opened up" yet but it might. It's hard to say.
Secondly, ABF and the other reviewers are right, it's sexist. It's not even a little sexist, it's blatant. lazy, there's a lot of ways that Samus can be FORCED to work under this guy that wouldn't have been sexist. It could have easily been done in a way that shows just how oppressive it actually is, which would be a good message to get across. That's how Metroid 4 was done. Samus was working for the military, answered to Adam, but it was clear she HATED being forced into that position, and was only doing so out of necessity. Here she willingly turns over her autonomy right from the start for NO discernible reason except "she respects Adam" (the same Adam she'd have a lot more trouble working with in Fusion). I don't know how it goes on from there, and I don't really want to know. However, it's a terrible start and it's very sexist indeed. I blame team ninja. They've got a proven sexist track record, and whatever you may say about Yoshio Sakamoto being the director, he's never done this with Samus before. The track record points to Team Ninja. He may have directed it, but I doubt he wrote the script. Sure he's responsible for allowing it, but I put most of it right on Team Ninja for now.
Now MAYBE it'll turn itself around, but it'll be a hard act to pull off after starting out with Samus' "teen dream journal" as my friend put it, where she LITERALLY utters the line "confession time" before describing her respect for Adam. Ugh... Thanks for ruining a beloved character...
For the record lazy, when Kratos does something horribly sexist, it's acceptable because the entire game is, by design, one big testosterone shove. It flies because it knows what it is. More importantly, Kratos is NOT portrayed as acting like a good person. He's a self destructive enraged insane berserker who hurts everyone he comes across because he doesn't know anything except fighting. It's a tale of his internal chaos manifesting on the rest of the world by his own hands. To say his story is not heroic but "cautionary" is an understatement. He's a human trainwreck with a lot of victims, and he's a blast to play as. That's fine. Samus however is being portrayed in such a way that it suggests this is how she, and by extension ALL female hero types, SHOULD behave. I disagree with ABF on Zelda because she did the best she could given her situation, and she regretted being powerless rather than embrace it as her "role" (plus the moment she got the chance to take an active roll, she always did), and for that matter ALL potential heroes in all Zelda games are rendered nearly powerless by the plot. Darunia really was just as ineffective as Zelda in OOT for example (he did nothing but suck and get captured, Sheik did more than he did). It's a necessity to make Link the one and only heroic figure in the game, but in TW there are still plenty of strong females in it, from that cold hearted girl who escorts you up north to Midna herself (who's cursed, you can't blame her for not doing more when cursed). It's a matter of perspective though. I find Samus' dependence on military order in Metroid 4 acceptable because the story forces it on her, and that's my qualifications in these matters. Mario's different, in that it's a cartoon, so the eternal joke of "princess gets captured" actually becomes part of the charm. Sure I wish there were a few MORE games with something aside from that, but that's about it. I can accept an eternal return to form as part of the ongoing joke, just like I can accept Daffy Duck always ALWAYS getting the eternal shaft if Bugs makes an appearance in one of his cartoons.
1st September 2010, 11:16 PM
Quote:Now MAYBE it'll turn itself around, but it'll be a hard act to pull off after starting out with Samus' "teen dream journal" as my friend put it, where she LITERALLY utters the line "confession time" before describing her respect for Adam. Ugh... Thanks for ruining a beloved character...
Sorry, everything I have heard says that it only gets worse as it goes on, not better. :(
The cutscene I linked in one of the spoiler sections is supposedly pretty much the lowlight, and that's not from the beginning of the game, I believe.
Quote:For the record lazy, when Kratos does something horribly sexist, it's acceptable because the entire game is, by design, one big testosterone shove. It flies because it knows what it is. More importantly, Kratos is NOT portrayed as acting like a good person. He's a self destructive enraged insane berserker who hurts everyone he comes across because he doesn't know anything except fighting. It's a tale of his internal chaos manifesting on the rest of the world by his own hands. To say his story is not heroic but "cautionary" is an understatement. He's a human trainwreck with a lot of victims, and he's a blast to play as. That's fine.
I agree -- Kratos is a horrible, horrible person, so him doing awful things is expected. I don't think even "antihero" applies to him, considering how much awful stuff he does in that series...
5th September 2010, 2:36 AM
I thought I'd add something. An introspective Samus with more personality than "silent bounty hunter" isn't necessarily bad. A Samus that actually cares about something other than the mission is fine. I've personally interpreted her through that lense. My Samus (and I think that's a fair word to use, as any personality has to be what we give her) is an effective and nearly fearless bounty hunter, yes, but that's just during fights. Exploring, she's noting just how much damage these ancient ruins have taken, wondering what happened, trying to figure out the history of the people who lived there. She's noting the various life forms on the planet, studying their behavior, and lamenting the fact that the space pirate war has taken such a toll on these various biospheres. Reading logs in Prime noting how much the pirates fear her, maybe she doesn't like that she's become such a nightmare.
The key is you can make her HUMAN without making her a cowering, ineffective, cloying little girl.
The key is you can make her HUMAN without making her a cowering, ineffective, cloying little girl.
5th September 2010, 12:42 PM
I will play it and give my perspectives, until then hearing some people claim its sexist and others saying its not is only fueling my desire to plug this baby in to my brain.
5th September 2010, 12:56 PM
Hopeful retcon: This Samus is a clone, an insecure clone.
5th September 2010, 1:06 PM
haha xD
well, a side from that. The important factor here is that samus has never really had a character, watching her go through changes will make things interesting, even if she was insecure it doesn't change who she became. The story arc in Other M goes from before her zero mission to either directly before or after Fusion. That means all the primes, NES, SNES, GB too. She is a girl after all, so her saying and doing things are girl-like ("confession time...") makes sense to me. Doesn't it remind you of Ripley's consciousness fighting being a woman or a soldier? What about who's she's really based on: Sarah Conner. All the same ideas are there, she wants to be a girl and think of herself as a woman. But her professional duties are essentially stripping her of her ability to be human, she must become that cold and calculated soldier of fortune.
well, a side from that. The important factor here is that samus has never really had a character, watching her go through changes will make things interesting, even if she was insecure it doesn't change who she became. The story arc in Other M goes from before her zero mission to either directly before or after Fusion. That means all the primes, NES, SNES, GB too. She is a girl after all, so her saying and doing things are girl-like ("confession time...") makes sense to me. Doesn't it remind you of Ripley's consciousness fighting being a woman or a soldier? What about who's she's really based on: Sarah Conner. All the same ideas are there, she wants to be a girl and think of herself as a woman. But her professional duties are essentially stripping her of her ability to be human, she must become that cold and calculated soldier of fortune.
5th September 2010, 1:39 PM
No it DOES change who she became. She's insecure in Other M! Not just in the flashbacks! You'll see. You'll be all like "what the HELL Team Ninja?". She literally freezes up numerous times when she sees these little baddies show up, and in so doing many soldiers die around her.
"She is a GIRL after all."
You're sexist lazy. You know as well as I do that she didn't HAVE a normal teenage life. She grew up training to be a hunter among alien birds! She's not GOING to act like a teenage stereotype. (Also, let's not forget not all girls in the real world act that way.
"She is a GIRL after all."
You're sexist lazy. You know as well as I do that she didn't HAVE a normal teenage life. She grew up training to be a hunter among alien birds! She's not GOING to act like a teenage stereotype. (Also, let's not forget not all girls in the real world act that way.