13th July 2010, 11:22 PM
15th July 2010, 9:12 PM
When it's true? Yes, they should mention it.
Here's an example of someone in the Tea Party proving that it is true...
http://politicalcorrection.org/blog/201007140006
http://blog.reidreport.com/2010/07/tea-p...-coloreds/
Here's an example of someone in the Tea Party proving that it is true...
http://politicalcorrection.org/blog/201007140006
http://blog.reidreport.com/2010/07/tea-p...-coloreds/
15th July 2010, 10:59 PM
Wasn't that former Grand Kleagle of the KKK who just died a long-time Democratic senator from West Virginia? :D
16th July 2010, 1:21 AM
Yeah, except he'd quit the KKK in the late '40s, abandoned his racism at some point later on, and in 2008 was an early Obama supporter...
16th July 2010, 8:40 AM
He was wise to choose the Democrats. There's no way anyone could believe that a Republican could be a 'former' KKK officer.
20th July 2010, 11:11 AM
So we're to believe that he had a total changing of heart that had nothing at all to do with shifting political winds? Just like Specter had a changing of political affiliation that had nothing to do with his re-election? Hmm.
The fact of the matter is that there probably are some racists in the Tea Party. The fact of the matter is, there probably are racists in the GOP. And the Democratic party. Just as there are communists in the Democratic Party. That has nothing to do with the party's platform. The Tea Party has nothing to do with racism. It in no way endorses racism. The Party is not bad because some of its members may be racist. To say that if there are any racist elements (at all) in the Tea Party that the Tea Party is therefor racist, is the same as saying that if there are any communists in the Democratic Party, then that is a communist party. It's asinine. Their argument is shameful. They are clearing only pushing this, in an election year, for political gains. The NAACP is so much in the Dems' pocket, it's not even funny.
The fact of the matter is that there probably are some racists in the Tea Party. The fact of the matter is, there probably are racists in the GOP. And the Democratic party. Just as there are communists in the Democratic Party. That has nothing to do with the party's platform. The Tea Party has nothing to do with racism. It in no way endorses racism. The Party is not bad because some of its members may be racist. To say that if there are any racist elements (at all) in the Tea Party that the Tea Party is therefor racist, is the same as saying that if there are any communists in the Democratic Party, then that is a communist party. It's asinine. Their argument is shameful. They are clearing only pushing this, in an election year, for political gains. The NAACP is so much in the Dems' pocket, it's not even funny.
20th July 2010, 2:48 PM
Don't kid yourself Darunia, there are many more racists in the Republican party than the Democratic... or at least, many more anti-black/hispanic racists... simple demographics (that whites dominate the Republican party, while majorities of minorities are Democrats) show that -- and of course that isn't a coincidence, the racism is one reason why there are so few black and, particularly, Hispanic Republicans. I mean, that Republican policies are directly opposed to their interests is another reason, but poor white people often vote Republican, and the Republicans are directly opposed to their interests as well on all economic issues, so yeah.
Oh, and ~80% of Tea Party members are Republican, according to polling. It is a right-wing movement.
Finally, to see an example of a high-up racist in the Tea Party, go look at the links I posted in the second post.
Oh, it took him years. Remember, he was in the Senate for many decades, and people can change over time. He still was racist in the 1960s, if not KKK racist, as we can see with how Byrd opposed some civil rights laws then -- he voted as a Southern Democrat at the time. Over time, though, he changed and admitted his mistakes later in life. I don't think it was just opportunistic, if it was that he'd probably have just left the Democratic party for the Republican one, as so many other Southern Democrats did; he changed his mind on race issues, I think. That he endorsed Obama helps show that.
That he opposed the Iraq War from the start is another positive on his side... very few in the Senate did that.
Oh, and ~80% of Tea Party members are Republican, according to polling. It is a right-wing movement.
Finally, to see an example of a high-up racist in the Tea Party, go look at the links I posted in the second post.
Quote:He was wise to choose the Democrats. There's no way anyone could believe that a Republican could be a 'former' KKK officer.
Oh, it took him years. Remember, he was in the Senate for many decades, and people can change over time. He still was racist in the 1960s, if not KKK racist, as we can see with how Byrd opposed some civil rights laws then -- he voted as a Southern Democrat at the time. Over time, though, he changed and admitted his mistakes later in life. I don't think it was just opportunistic, if it was that he'd probably have just left the Democratic party for the Republican one, as so many other Southern Democrats did; he changed his mind on race issues, I think. That he endorsed Obama helps show that.
That he opposed the Iraq War from the start is another positive on his side... very few in the Senate did that.
20th July 2010, 3:44 PM
What's funny is that 'racist' is an awfully subjective term.
I would classify a racist as someone who legitimately hates a person because of differing skin color.
You would classify a racist as someone who shows the slightest hint of insensitivity towards anyone who isn't white, regardless of any extenuating circumstances.
I firmly believe that the biggest problem regarding racism today is how insanely sensitive we are about it. There are some real racists out there, and some of them are legitimately dangerous, awful people. Context matters, though. Context always matters. You can tell a joke about black men being criminals, for instance. The same joke can be told by two different people who interpret it differently. I don't believe that such a joke is inherently wrong. It can be told ironically, to demonstrate the absurdity behind such a stereotype.
That's just one example, but my point is, the real reason race is such a huge deal is because we really aren't willing to kill it. The right thing to do with honest racists is to marginalize them. Instead, we blow them up into monsters far exceeding their actual importance in the grand scheme of things, leaving the rest of us having to carefully consider every word we speak when such topics come up, because public accusations of racism can destroy a person in today's society.
I recommend reading a novel by Philip Roth called The Human Stain. It is an excellent (albeit fictional) account of a man whose long career as a professor is destroyed by an accusation of racism against a black student, due to an unfortunate choice of words used during a class session (and, because nobody knows that he is, himself, a light-skinned man who is actually black, and gave up all ties to his past to escape being victimized by racists in academia in the 1950s). Before you make any assumptions beforehand, considering who is making this recommendation, know that it is written with a very liberal political slant (the event is paralleled to the Lewinsky affair and subsequent Republican witch hunt).
I would classify a racist as someone who legitimately hates a person because of differing skin color.
You would classify a racist as someone who shows the slightest hint of insensitivity towards anyone who isn't white, regardless of any extenuating circumstances.
I firmly believe that the biggest problem regarding racism today is how insanely sensitive we are about it. There are some real racists out there, and some of them are legitimately dangerous, awful people. Context matters, though. Context always matters. You can tell a joke about black men being criminals, for instance. The same joke can be told by two different people who interpret it differently. I don't believe that such a joke is inherently wrong. It can be told ironically, to demonstrate the absurdity behind such a stereotype.
That's just one example, but my point is, the real reason race is such a huge deal is because we really aren't willing to kill it. The right thing to do with honest racists is to marginalize them. Instead, we blow them up into monsters far exceeding their actual importance in the grand scheme of things, leaving the rest of us having to carefully consider every word we speak when such topics come up, because public accusations of racism can destroy a person in today's society.
I recommend reading a novel by Philip Roth called The Human Stain. It is an excellent (albeit fictional) account of a man whose long career as a professor is destroyed by an accusation of racism against a black student, due to an unfortunate choice of words used during a class session (and, because nobody knows that he is, himself, a light-skinned man who is actually black, and gave up all ties to his past to escape being victimized by racists in academia in the 1950s). Before you make any assumptions beforehand, considering who is making this recommendation, know that it is written with a very liberal political slant (the event is paralleled to the Lewinsky affair and subsequent Republican witch hunt).
21st July 2010, 11:48 AM
Don't kid yourself Darunia, there are many more racists in the Republican party than the Democratic... or at least, many more anti-black/hispanic racists...
Most likely true. Alas, I never claimed otherwise! What's thism in my mo... ahh ... oh... *pitooeie!** stop putting those yucky words in my mouth.
simple demographics (that whites dominate the Republican party, while majorities of minorities are Democrats) show that -- and of course that isn't a coincidence
So if all white people are in one party, that makes them racist. If all black people are in a party, that makes them enlightened.
I mean, that Republican policies are directly opposed to their interests is another reason,
Fallacy detected. Reboot/retry?
but poor white people often vote Republican, and the Republicans are directly opposed to their interests as well on all economic issues, so yeah.
So poor white dumb bible-thumping white folk are just all dumb and just vote GOP because they're all racists? It's not because they are, maybe, conservative on gay marriage, or immigration, or economics, or religion... they're just dumb and racist.
Oh, and ~80% of Tea Party members are Republican, according to polling. It is a right-wing movement.
It sure is a right-wing conservative movement. Nobody said it wasn't as far as I know--I sure didn't. But you are naively assuming that right-wing = racist, which is just fanficul commie hot wind.
Finally, to see an example of a high-up racist in the Tea Party, go look at the links I posted in the second post.
One racist tea party member = tea party is racist? If one Filipino prostitute joins to tea party, is the tea party therefore a party for Filipino prostitutes?
Over time, though, he changed and admitted his mistakes later in life. I don't think it was just opportunistic, if it was that he'd probably have just left the Democratic party for the Republican one, as so many other Southern Democrats did; he changed his mind on race issues, I think. That he endorsed Obama helps show that.
You're so full of it right here that it's coming out your ears. You're blindly defending him because he's a big-name Democrat. I mean, a MAN WAS IN THE KKK, WAS ANTI-DESEGREGATION... the list goes on and on... BUT he's cool, because he's a Dem, and he said he's sorry. On the other hand, THOSE GODDAMNED REDNECK TEA PARTY MOOKS! ONE OF THEM SAID NIGGER OR SOMETHING! GODDAMN THEM ALL THOSE RIGHT-RIGHT NUT JOBS!
You seem to be forgiving of the late Grand Pobbah Byrd, and at the same time, being prejudiced against anything right-wing. If you look hard enough you'll find a racist Tea Party person. And if you look hard enough you'll find a four leaf clover. The differenece is, people are ACTIVELY SEEKING racist tea party people to discredit the party. Surely they'll find some. It's not that hard to figure out the fallacy in this argument.
Most likely true. Alas, I never claimed otherwise! What's thism in my mo... ahh ... oh... *pitooeie!** stop putting those yucky words in my mouth.
simple demographics (that whites dominate the Republican party, while majorities of minorities are Democrats) show that -- and of course that isn't a coincidence
So if all white people are in one party, that makes them racist. If all black people are in a party, that makes them enlightened.
I mean, that Republican policies are directly opposed to their interests is another reason,
Fallacy detected. Reboot/retry?
but poor white people often vote Republican, and the Republicans are directly opposed to their interests as well on all economic issues, so yeah.
So poor white dumb bible-thumping white folk are just all dumb and just vote GOP because they're all racists? It's not because they are, maybe, conservative on gay marriage, or immigration, or economics, or religion... they're just dumb and racist.
Oh, and ~80% of Tea Party members are Republican, according to polling. It is a right-wing movement.
It sure is a right-wing conservative movement. Nobody said it wasn't as far as I know--I sure didn't. But you are naively assuming that right-wing = racist, which is just fanficul commie hot wind.
Finally, to see an example of a high-up racist in the Tea Party, go look at the links I posted in the second post.
One racist tea party member = tea party is racist? If one Filipino prostitute joins to tea party, is the tea party therefore a party for Filipino prostitutes?
Over time, though, he changed and admitted his mistakes later in life. I don't think it was just opportunistic, if it was that he'd probably have just left the Democratic party for the Republican one, as so many other Southern Democrats did; he changed his mind on race issues, I think. That he endorsed Obama helps show that.
You're so full of it right here that it's coming out your ears. You're blindly defending him because he's a big-name Democrat. I mean, a MAN WAS IN THE KKK, WAS ANTI-DESEGREGATION... the list goes on and on... BUT he's cool, because he's a Dem, and he said he's sorry. On the other hand, THOSE GODDAMNED REDNECK TEA PARTY MOOKS! ONE OF THEM SAID NIGGER OR SOMETHING! GODDAMN THEM ALL THOSE RIGHT-RIGHT NUT JOBS!
You seem to be forgiving of the late Grand Pobbah Byrd, and at the same time, being prejudiced against anything right-wing. If you look hard enough you'll find a racist Tea Party person. And if you look hard enough you'll find a four leaf clover. The differenece is, people are ACTIVELY SEEKING racist tea party people to discredit the party. Surely they'll find some. It's not that hard to figure out the fallacy in this argument.
21st July 2010, 3:35 PM
Racism is hating people, yes, but by definition there's a bit more to it than that. Racism is any judgement call about a person someone makes based solely on race. In almost all cases, it's completely illegitimate. There are a few exceptions (black people are, as a matter of fact, less likely to get sun burned, and white people, as a matter of fact, probably get less rickets in far northern climates), but those aren't the assumptions.
Yes yes, "if you met a group of black people wearing colors in the middle of the ghetto would you be afraid", well, you've just asked a loaded question. The important information isn't "black people" but "wearing colors in the middle of the ghetto". That's more of a class assumption than anything, and while it still could be off the mark, there's at least some decent reason for concern, white, black or whatever. A group of black people in business suits outside Wall street are a better example, in which case anyone who's afraid of them is, by definition, making a completely untenable racist assumption. Certain care should be taken with these things. Making a racist joke to expose the insanity of racism can be funny, but a lot of people making those jokes "mean them" more than they let on. The problem is that someone who is in the majority "only" has to deal with the issue of racism "when they feel like it", when they want to talk about it, when they want to debate it, and then they can get back to their completely unhindered (by race) lifestyle at their choosing. Being able to "walk away" from race is an example of privilege. Don't misunderstand. It's a "privilege" everyone would ideally have, but right now it's not the one most people live. To someone who's in a minority, their race is constantly being shoved back in their face from the moment they leave their house to the moment they get back home. There are exceptions, and yes that's a bit of an exaggeration to make a point, but that's the general idea to get across here. So, around someone in that situation, making a "racist joke" just for fun is a bit more hurting than it should be. Think of it like this. Most of us here are nerds. In school, you may have noticed that on average no one really "cared" about whatever annoyances you were dealing with until someone decided to "take up the cause" and bravely be friends with a dork. Suddenly all these smiling faces like they're dragging you out of the mud surround you. What's their game? Most of the time no one cared at all whether you lived or died, but today suddenly they care? One awkward confrontation (aided by your own poor social skills) later, everything's back to normal for you, but come to find out later those people who "tried to help" are convinced they did something that "changed your life", a great favor, completely unaware that for you, it's all the same.
Let's be clear, being a nerd in school isn't nearly on the same scale. The other way, issues of race are FAR better than they were decades ago. No one can argue that things aren't much improved from the days of protesters being hosed down and thrown out of places back in the 50's. That said, it's still there. It's still uncomfortable for those involved, and it's hard to say exactly how to deal with it. One thing's for sure, walking up to someone and telling them not to get mad when you make a racist joke around them isn't helping.
Darunia, selection bias is certainly something to consider in this. Here's the thing. There's been polls that try to eliminate selection bias by interviewing large numbers. There's still a statistically significant number of racists in these groups.
Yes yes, "if you met a group of black people wearing colors in the middle of the ghetto would you be afraid", well, you've just asked a loaded question. The important information isn't "black people" but "wearing colors in the middle of the ghetto". That's more of a class assumption than anything, and while it still could be off the mark, there's at least some decent reason for concern, white, black or whatever. A group of black people in business suits outside Wall street are a better example, in which case anyone who's afraid of them is, by definition, making a completely untenable racist assumption. Certain care should be taken with these things. Making a racist joke to expose the insanity of racism can be funny, but a lot of people making those jokes "mean them" more than they let on. The problem is that someone who is in the majority "only" has to deal with the issue of racism "when they feel like it", when they want to talk about it, when they want to debate it, and then they can get back to their completely unhindered (by race) lifestyle at their choosing. Being able to "walk away" from race is an example of privilege. Don't misunderstand. It's a "privilege" everyone would ideally have, but right now it's not the one most people live. To someone who's in a minority, their race is constantly being shoved back in their face from the moment they leave their house to the moment they get back home. There are exceptions, and yes that's a bit of an exaggeration to make a point, but that's the general idea to get across here. So, around someone in that situation, making a "racist joke" just for fun is a bit more hurting than it should be. Think of it like this. Most of us here are nerds. In school, you may have noticed that on average no one really "cared" about whatever annoyances you were dealing with until someone decided to "take up the cause" and bravely be friends with a dork. Suddenly all these smiling faces like they're dragging you out of the mud surround you. What's their game? Most of the time no one cared at all whether you lived or died, but today suddenly they care? One awkward confrontation (aided by your own poor social skills) later, everything's back to normal for you, but come to find out later those people who "tried to help" are convinced they did something that "changed your life", a great favor, completely unaware that for you, it's all the same.
Let's be clear, being a nerd in school isn't nearly on the same scale. The other way, issues of race are FAR better than they were decades ago. No one can argue that things aren't much improved from the days of protesters being hosed down and thrown out of places back in the 50's. That said, it's still there. It's still uncomfortable for those involved, and it's hard to say exactly how to deal with it. One thing's for sure, walking up to someone and telling them not to get mad when you make a racist joke around them isn't helping.
Darunia, selection bias is certainly something to consider in this. Here's the thing. There's been polls that try to eliminate selection bias by interviewing large numbers. There's still a statistically significant number of racists in these groups.
21st July 2010, 3:54 PM
The thing is, we used skin color as the arbitrary measuring stick for so long that we forget how utterly arbitrary it really is. On a purely fundamental level, discrimination based on skin color is no different than discrimination based on height, eye color, the shape of one's hands, or any number of physical characteristics tied entirely to what numbers you draw in the genetic lottery. Skin color is not special. One color is not different in any manner relevant to independent human function.
It should be society's goal to emphasize this as strongly as possible. Making racism out to be evil is not as important as making it socially irrelevant, leading to a world where, one day, the word 'nigger' is an archaic term with no meaning, and if someone says it, nobody cares because it has no power to impact anyone.
It should be society's goal to emphasize this as strongly as possible. Making racism out to be evil is not as important as making it socially irrelevant, leading to a world where, one day, the word 'nigger' is an archaic term with no meaning, and if someone says it, nobody cares because it has no power to impact anyone.
21st July 2010, 4:18 PM
Darunia, selection bias is certainly something to consider in this. Here's the thing. There's been polls that try to eliminate selection bias by interviewing large numbers. There's still a statistically significant number of racists in these groups.
Let's see them.
Let's see them.