Tendo City - Huge gold and Iron deposits found in afghanistan

link

maybe they could pay us back for rebuilding their country?

And lithium.

And we're never EVER going to get access to it.

I'd heard that Afghanistan probably had large, untapped mineral deposits, and this proves it... but yeah, getting access to them is going to be extremely difficult to say the least.

What they don't mention in Star Trek is that Earth is a paradise, except for Afghanistan, which they just surrounded in a force field and have decided to ignore.

Hah... perhaps, wouldn't surprise me... :)

The year is 25XX, borg invade earth, assimilating everything, except this odd goat herding wasteland. "Not worth expenditure of forces" says borg queen.

Okay, but that just supports that we'll never have access to their resources.

Dark Jaguar Wrote:The year is 25XX, borg invade earth, assimilating everything, except this odd goat herding wasteland. "Not worth expenditure of forces" says borg queen.

The Borg queens ignores the Afghan People, stating that they aren't worthy of assimilation.

If only we had Teddy Roosevelt in the White House. Then, we'd take the resources. Because we're American, goddamnit.

etoven Wrote:The Borg queens ignores the Afghan People, stating that they aren't worthy of assimilation.

Thank you Ted that was the joke.

Darunia Wrote:If only we had Teddy Roosevelt in the White House. Then, we'd take the resources. Because we're American, goddamnit.

Invading countries just for resources is a little... World War 2 and earlier isn't it? People don't do that any more Darunia, because we're trying to have a society here.

Dark Jaguar Wrote:Invading countries just for resources is a little... World War 2 and earlier isn't it? People don't do that any more Darunia, because we're trying to have a society here.

What if clean drinking water became as precious and valuable a commodity as oil? Would you steal to survive at others expense?

Hey, we did it in Iraq, partially, you know. Didn't that go well?

Whatever else you may say about that war, I really don't think it was ever about oil, considering oil never once came up. I really just don't think Bush or any of his lackeys were SMART enough to think of that. No, I'm pretty sure they were all convinced they were doing something "just".

alien space marine Wrote:What if clean drinking water became as precious and valuable a commodity as oil? Would you steal to survive at others expense?

Yes, because Afghans have LOTS of water. Sorry, I'm just not interested in "dark and gritty" stuff, including ridiculous hypothetical "us or them" scenarios.

Dark Jaguar Wrote:Yes, because Afghans have LOTS of water. Sorry, I'm just not interested in "dark and gritty" stuff, including ridiculous hypothetical "us or them" scenarios.

My would ya would ya question was not about Afghanistan.

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Saw is an idiotic series. Let me spell it out for you. Killing an innocent person to save your own skin is the very definition of cowardice.

Edit: On a side note, if you are getting your morality from the KILLER in a slasher franchise, you're an idiot.

Invading countries just for resources is a little... World War 2 and earlier isn't it? People don't do that any more Darunia, because we're trying to have a society here.

Really? Pre WWII? Like... maybe into the Teddy Roosevelt White House? My tongue-in-cheek satire bounced right off of yer forehead there, friend.

That's because I'm not much of a conspiracy theorist.

Dark Jaguar Wrote:Edit: On a side note, if you are getting your morality from the KILLER in a slasher franchise, you're an idiot.

Daft Jaguar, Your responses are nothing but straw man attacks.

My error, Was in posting my query as if it was a directed solely at you , When it was intended as a general discussion for all.

I wouldn't take a innocent life to prolong my wretched existence... If you should know

besides even if I thought that way, Saw is no worse a source of moral instruction then what billions already follow.

I
I
I
V
[Image: hellfire.jpg?w=510&h=382]

This is what will happen if you picked Jesus instead of Allah or Vice Versa, Then again both dessert cults are hung up on the issue of predestined fatalism and wither or not free will even exists.

"Those who has disbelieved - their wealth and their children will never benefit them anything with Allah. And those are the ones who are the fuel of Hellfire."
[ali'-Imran, 3: 10]

"O you who believe, save yourselves and your families from a fire whose fuel is men and stones, over which are appointed angels, stern and severe, who do not disobey Allah in what He orders them and who do precisely what they are commanded."
[al-Tahreem, 66: 6]

"Verily, Allah has cursed the disbelievers and prepared for them a Blazing Fire. Dwelling therein forever, and they will find no protector or helper."
[al-Ahzab, 33: 64-65]

"Those who have disbelieved in Our signs - We will burn them in fire. As often as their skins are roasted through, We will exchange them for other skins so that they may taste the punishment. Indeed, Allah is Exalted in Power, Wise."
[Surah an-Nisa, 4: 56]

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Some fun atheists cartoons for Darunia and friends...

Heheh cute stuff ASM thanks for sharing.

The dumbest 9/11 truther conspiracy theory I've heard was when a girl at a party told me she heard the government orchestrated the collapse of the twin towers because... ready for it? There was GOLD underneath them. No joke, she told it to me with complete conviction.

I told her how ridiculous that was, and her response was, "Well, they did it for SOMETHING under there." Uh... that wasn't quite the point. She wasn't even that drunk.

In regards to your trying to debunk crackpot 9-11 theories:

"Trying to disprove something impossible to disprove... is it really worth the effort, when you cannot succeed?"

I dare you to disprove there wasn't gold under the WTC and the gov't didn't plan the collapse for it!

I think the real scare is all those minerals being looked at by Al-Qaeda and them being like fuck opium I'm going to sell all this lithium to energizer in exchange for 900 guns. Or maybe 900 pounds of silver to mob in exchange for a army of thugs.

Sacred Jellybean Wrote:The dumbest 9/11 truther conspiracy theory I've heard was when a girl at a party told me she heard the government orchestrated the collapse of the twin towers because... ready for it? There was GOLD underneath them. No joke, she told it to me with complete conviction.

I told her how ridiculous that was, and her response was, "Well, they did it for SOMETHING under there." Uh... that wasn't quite the point. She wasn't even that drunk.

I've heard that before. The idea is that in one of the collapsed buildings (not the main two WTC towers, but one of the other ones that "suspiciously" fell) there was supposedly a large amount of gold in some bank vault or depository or something, and in the confusion after the towers fell some group(in the government who had of course set bombs in the buildings to make them come down) took off with the gold.

I don't believe it either, but I do know people who believe some of the "Truther" stuff, conspiracy theorists and such on the left mostly...

alien space marine Wrote:Daft Jaguar, Your responses are nothing but straw man attacks.

My error, Was in posting my query as if it was a directed solely at you , When it was intended as a general discussion for all.

I wouldn't take a innocent life to prolong my wretched existence... If you should know

besides even if I thought that way, Saw is no worse a source of moral instruction then what billions already follow.

Fair enough, just another example of your inability to make yourself clear.

Yeah I'd put the whole "the pres did it for oil" thing right up there. Yes I think the war was stupid, and there's clearly been some deception, but it's giving them too much credit with zero reason to think it's the case to suppose they did it secretly for oil. If only! At least THEN I could consider it an evil genius plot. The reality is a lot more mundane, and depressing.

WTC fell because they put Black Thirteen in a subway locker underneath one of the towers. Real talk.

Is that anything like Ice 9?

Dark Jaguar Wrote:Saw is an idiotic series. Let me spell it out for you. Killing an innocent person to save your own skin is the very definition of cowardice.

Edit: On a side note, if you are getting your morality from the KILLER in a slasher franchise, you're an idiot.

Dark Jaguar Wrote:Yeah I'd put the whole "the pres did it for oil" thing right up there. Yes I think the war was stupid, and there's clearly been some deception, but it's giving them too much credit with zero reason to think it's the case to suppose they did it secretly for oil. If only! At least THEN I could consider it an evil genius plot. The reality is a lot more mundane, and depressing.

Oil was certainly one of the central factors behind why we invaded Iraq. We do not usually attack countries that we do not have some economic interest in; see how we ignored Afghanistan for many years despite their radically anti-American government, until we couldn't after 9/11, mostly because we thought the country had no real resources. Also remember that Cheney, the real power behind the throne, WAS AN OIL COMPANY CEO! And Bush's father had been in oil for a long time as well (think of Bush I's long, close relationship with the Saudi royal family). They knew the business. This is not some crazy theory, to imagine that he would want to secure oil! And the right had been saying for years that they wanted a friendly country in the Middle East, and why do we care so much about the Middle East? Because of the oil of course.

It wasn't the ONLY reason, though. Revenge for Bush I's "failure" to take down Sadaam in 1990 was another part of it; Bush I was criticized for not doing so at the time, and Bush II wanted to make up for it by doing what his father hadn't. Wolfowitz for instance had co-authored a paper in the early '90s saying how big of a mistake not taking out the Iraqi government in 1990-91 was. The neocons had been thinking about doing what they did for many years. They were just waiting for the opportunity. There were a few other reasons as well, of course, but those are the most important ones I think. Looking for chemical and biological weapons was just the excuse used to do the invasion, not something any of them actually cared about; they thought that that reason would be the one most likely to actually hold up... little did they know that the sanctions had actually worked and Sadaam had no chemical or biological weapons. Of course had they allowed the search teams to finish their work we probably would have learned that without a massive war and lots of people getting killed, but that would have required waiting, and maybe being shown that Sadaam had nothing, and they really wanted a war, so they couldn't have that... so before the teams were finished looking Bush and his cronies forced them to leave and invaded.

It's funny that despite all that their plan for how to follow up the invasion was so delusionally bad... you'd think that in all that time they'd have had the time to come up with sane ideas. But no.

Remember though, America has a long history of going to war and conquering things for economic reasons. We conquered Hawaii because the sugar companies wanted it, we invaded various Caribbean nations because the banana companies wanted it, etc, etc... why should it be so hard to believe that oil companies had a big say in our invading Iraq, particularly when you consider who was in the White House?

It's not that it's "hard to believe". You can point to motive all you want, but without evidence, it's all circumstantial. The simpler answer is that the people in charge are all idiots invading based on misguided ideology.

But they weren't idiots. Wolfowitz, Rumsfeld, and Cheney -- the neocon core of the administration -- are pretty intelligent men, actually. Horrible people, and with big blind spots in their vision, but very intelligent. Bush? Yeah, he's not too bright. But he was not usually the main leader in his own administration. The neocons had a plan, and carried it out. They did not go in haphazardly or for no good reason.

Again though, it's all just conjecture without proof. There's plenty of evidence for more than enough unsavory acts to condemn them. The oil conspiracy idea just seems in the same vein as any other nutty conspiracy theory. It's probably closer to concerns about oil companies destroying cars that "ran on WATER maaan".

Hippy: But it did, and it worked better.

Me: Better... how?

Hippy: Better through nature, water is nature's oil!

Me: No, oil is nature's oil.

Hippy: Oil lover!

Me: Actually I think oil is both harmful and in the long run doomed to run out, I just don't care about labels like "natural".

Hippy: Woah... how heavy is your head?

... Why do you insist that major corporate interests do not have an effect on American foreign policy, when it has been proven over and over again that they do? Saying that Cheney profited directly from the Iraq War due to his Halliburton ties is not a conspiracy theory, and nor is pointing out how the neocons had been planning for the war for many years, and clearly didn't really care whether there was a real justification or not...

I'm actually against the silly amounts of money from big lobbies that get tossed around too.

That said, you can't fling around accusations without some evidence to back them up. That's all. All that's been listed so far is pure circumstantial.

If you want a "why", it's all about the evidence. I'm not married to the idea they didn't do it "for oil". I just need evidence. If you're willing to abandon evidence in favor of sheer circumstance, you end up being able to convict anyone of anything. Until shown otherwise, there's more than enough already demonstrated reasons for him to have invaded (not good ones mind you) that one doesn't need to posit extras without proof. It's just Occam's razor.

...I thought this was already known. They've been talking about the untapped resources in that area for decades. I thought that was one of the main bottom lines for our push. They dont have the ability to mine it but once we make a secure area we can let companies begin, the nation gets a cut of the profits.

This has been and I guess more obviously now, about resources. It's the only reason we're over there.

Actually this mine's been known about for about 3 years now already, it's only really hit the news just now though. Not sure why, but the big news groups are traditionally horrible at science reporting, learning in "news school" that unless it has a human narrative it's apparently boring.

Most likely, but on the first subject other than that particular mine from 3 years, there's a bevy of resources in question that have been under the scrutiny of American and European markets. It's been a topic of discussion since the first gulf war.

That's very true, which ends up going back to the discussion of the fact that as long as that country is the hell it currently is, the modern world's just not ever getting access to any of it.

Ok--what's with the vintage 1900 McKinley-Roosevelt stuff?