Apparently, it's unofficially announced. Nintendo Power might announce it in the next issue. Based on what was said previously from Nintendo:
"I think it wasn't as lucrative a venture to give third parties the responsibilities of our franchises in some cases. (Starfox, F-Zero)"
...that this next installment of the rail-shooter saga will come straight from Nintendo. My thoughts on it are that it's going to be multiplayer savvy and this might be the title that showcases Wiispeak and possibly a smoother online experience, which may mean this game will be branded with a T for teen especially if Krystal shows up and starts bouncing those furry ears of hers.
I also have a sneaky suspicion that on-foot krap will make an appearance but judging by the Landmaster appearance in SSB:B I think we'll see a lot of updates to older levels. Starfox 64 is, to this day, the best out of all of them and is the highest selling. So hopefully that shows Nintendo exactly where they need to focus.
If I find any blurbs or news i'll post it here, otherwise regard this as rumor.
They were right there about Starfox, but completely wrong about F-Zero, Sega's F-Zero game is maybe the best F-Zero game ever...
As for Starfox though, it's not like Nintendo's most recent in-house effort is that great either. I mean, Star Fox Command for the DS... okay game, but not great. It's no Star Fox 64 for sure.
I've played very little of Starfox Command and I guess the thing that turned me off of it was having to use the stylus with my left hand. I'm right-handed. Granted, any game that makes simultaneous use of the buttons and the stylus is going to require left-handed stylus use, while any game that uses the stylus and the control pad simultaneously would require right-handed stylus use.
I actually liked Starfox Adventures, but it felt more like a half-baked Zelda game than a Starfox game. Still, Zelda games are awesome, half-baked or otherwise. Starfox Assault was pretty good, but too short. I like the constant switching between vehicles and on-foot combat. It wasn't the best Starfox game, for sure, but it was innovative.
Still, Starfox 64 stands as the greatest Starfox game of all time and should definitely be the model for future Starfox games to follow.
Star Fox Command wasn't done in-house at Nintendo, it was developed by Q-Game, a smalltime developer founded by former Argonauts [developer of the original Star Fox] employees.
Star Fox 64 is almost certainly better than every other Star Fox game all combined, though. So while that's better than Namco or Rare's efforts, it's still no Star Fox 64.
The original Star Fox was decent as well, though Starfox 64 is a vastly superior remake, so I guess one could say that Star Fox for the SNES was a prototype to a better game. There hasn't been as good a Starfox game since then.
My main problem with Starfox Adventures is that it feels rushed. It could've been longer, had a bigger world, not repeated dungeons, had a final battle with General Scales instead of a deus ex machina followed by a pointless battle with Andross, who had nothing to do with the game's story, and had a better battle system.
Fox had very few moves he could do with his staff, other than magic-consuming moves, which you'd usually feel compelled not to use if you don't have to. Look at Link: he can slash in several different ways, he can jump side to side and backflip and roll, and it's all easy to maneuver. With Fox, you just whack A over and over and he does the same pattern of moves with his staff.
Also, the game's "point of no return" where all you can do is fight the final battle sucked. Not to mention you get the last two Krazoa Spirits both at once right at the end of the game, further adding to my argument that the game felt rushed. The ending was also short and underwhelming.
Overall, a good effort, but more time should've been spent on it. It tried to be Zelda and failed.
That game was the result of Rare being sold. Remember they more or less pushed it out the door the moment Nintendo sealed the deal with MS. If they'd been able to complete it, I'm sure it would have been great. As you said, it felt like two entire dungeons got scrapped when they just handed you two spirits. The last boss fight just... didn't happen at all, and instead you fight Andross who really does feel tossed in at the last second. Further, the space battles aren't nearly as refined as Star Fox 64. That's understandable considering it was not really supposed to be a space battle game, but then they shouldn't have made that the final boss.
What really irked me was the puzzles though. When your inventory system automatically switches to EXACTLY the item you need, and everything in the game has a holographic icon saying "DO THING AT HERE NOW!", it's really hard to put decent puzzles in the game. I only actually got stuck once, when there were some hidden switches I had missed in one of the dungeons.
However, it is still one of the best looking games on the Gamecube, and better looking than a lot on the Wii for that matter. Further, the battle system showed a lot of promise, and there were some unique items to be had. The dinosaur prince thing was underrealized, but also showed promise. The boss fights, aside from the rather silly last one, were also pretty well done.
All in all, it's a game that is a testament to what happens when you sell a company when it's making something for you. I have no doubt Rare WANTED to finish it, but when the talks were finalized I'm sure word came down from MS that they wanted Rare to get started on projects for them as soon as possible, and so they more or less had to push it out the door against the typical Rare "when it's done" time frame.
Graphically, it was a very beautiful game, as you said. I certainly felt that it had plenty of material to be a longer game: four SpellStones plus seven Krazoa Spirits? Each should've had its own dungeon, or at least each of the Krazoa Spirits should have, for a total of seven dungeons. But yeah, seeing as it was Rare's sole game for the Gamecube, I can imagine Microsoft had something to do with them rushing it along so that they could begin development for the XBox. It's a shame because it had so much potential.
Graphically the game was beautiful, sure. But the actual gameplay was mind-numbingly boring, the story was TERRIBLE and really made no sense, some of the ways it had been cut back from Dinosaur Planet obvious and sad, the combat unbelievably dull, and more. DK64 didn't do it, I still like that one, but somehow this one finally convinced me, Rare really did like collecting too much.
I know I've said it before, but really a big part of the problem was how linear it was. I mean, in a DK64 or something you usually have several things you could be doing. But in this one you just need to collect everything in order, and you're collecting like three different sets of random items. It all seems so pointless, particularly with such stupidly easy puzzles and combat... and it's not fun either. (The bosses are fun sometimes, but that's not enough to save the game.) I quit playing partway through the game and don't think I'll ever finish it.
I don't know if it's actually a BAD game, though. I might just consider it average... just one of the most boring, tedious examples of average ever.
I definitely think Dinosaur Planet on the N64 was looking much more interesting. Nintendo shouldn't have forced Star Fox on the game. But yes, I definitely agree that the rest of the problem was because of how the game had been rushed because of the sale of Rare, etc. They just wanted to be done with it...
I was convinced that Rare loved collecting even before SFA. Probably the biggest thing I disliked about Banjo-Kazooie and DK64 (which weren't bad games on the whole, but certainly not favorites of mine) was the necessity of collecting. I'd search for hours, going through the same corridors of the same area, over and over again, looking for that one stone that I left unturned, just to find that last Jingo or banana or whatever. It wasn't what I would call fun. There were aspects to both games that were fun, but that wasn't one of them. I will hand it to Rare, though: their games have always been very inventive, and the puzzles and mini-games are all unique and fun. However, the collecting gets to be way too tedious. Conker's Bad Fur Day didn't suffer as much from this problem. I actually preferred SFA's system of straightforward collecting too.
As far as Rare is concerned, I'd have to say that their best platformers came out during the 2D era on the SNES. Collecting existed in the DKC games (or at least the latter two), but it was still possible to enjoy the game without collecting absolutely everything, plus I felt more compelled to collect everything in those games than I did in Rare's N64 platformers.
It's certainly an interesting discussion. I think SFA was the first Rare game I could honestly say I found disappointing. Some got annoyed with Banjo, and others with DK64. I remember a number annoyed with the last minute "Oh yeah, find EVERY SINGLE TEDDY BEAR" quest in Jet Force Gemini.
I can see that, though personally I'm a collection freak myself.
<img src="http://penny-arcade.smugmug.com/photos/215185867_9NNwj-L-2.jpg">
(Side note: I personally don't like the new look of Penny Arcade's site. The old one had character, this one looks like every other site out there.)
Anyway, as they started making games for MS for some reason they never really quite got up to where they were. I liked PD0, but to be totally honest I haven't played that game nearly as much as I ever played the first PD, or GE for that matter (both completely demolished in terms of pretty much every danged thing to complete there is). Viva Pinata is pretty good though. I found it addictive enough, though Rare is as guilty as so many others of really pathetic "DC". Banjo Nuts and Bolts is the first game in a while that really drew out that "gotta do absolutely everything in this game" feeling.
I can't really say anything about Rare's post-SFA games as I've never owned an XBox or an XBox 360. I would like to own a 360 someday, though, and when and if I do, I'll give some of those games a shot.
Poor Fox is little more than an errand boy. :)
SFA was retarded, it's only saving grace was the feeling of playing something breathtakingly beautiful such as the depth of field during battles, the bump mapping and fur, all next gen and all beautiful. But like Banjo was Rare's take on Mario SFA was their attempt at a Zelda but I think whoever said that once the MS deals were in question a lot of quality slipped. Banjo~Kazooie held a deeper and more meaningful story construction than SFA. I believe that if the story maintained its original ideas, it would have been a huge success.
As far as Andross at the end, I could buy that because this is Rare we're talking about. Look at the end boss of Conker's BFD, though in all fairness Conker's is a tragic/comedy with SFA trying to be a serious take on a lighthearted fantasy and role playing game. So instead of a plot twist, it just felt like a plot gap. And no newgame+ to play as Krystal with a harder difficulty setting? Come on Rare.
There is a strong rumor of Killer Instinct being redone for 360, there's also PD this Christmas for download and a whisper of an original Blast Corps redux on XBL soon. All of which are equally welcomed. VP was ingenious but it lacked anything for us old, crusty hardcore types who just want to kill things. MS said its going to be focusing on bringing Rare up and putting them more in the spotlight. This, with info of Bungie quitting the Halo series, could mean that the test of PDZ being a replacement for Halo with PD2 hitting sometime next year could put Rare in top form as the new FPS multiplayer go-to. All of that depends on whether or not Rare will step up and address why the quality of games have slipped and what's being done to fix it.
Quote:That game was the result of Rare being sold. Remember they more or less pushed it out the door the moment Nintendo sealed the deal with MS.
More accurately, it was pushed out the door the moment the Stamper brothers sealed the deal with MS.
Nintendo sold their stake, but it was only a 49%, non-majority stake. Ownership had already been transferred from the Stampers to MS.
That's true, it probably had more to do with the new direction than the actual changing of ownership. After all Conker's BFD was released on N64 at the end of its life and it did not suffer in quality nor was it rushed.
I think there is something to say though when you look at Rare and the release of SFA in comparison to what they brought to Ms. Grabbed by the Ghoulies, PDZ and Kameo all met with mixed results, the new Banjo didn't exactly break any million seller lists and Rare looks in bad shape compared to their golden days.
There was a recent interview where Rare even said they're kinda missing out... I wonder if we might see a Rare game on Wii someday. I mean, if Square can come back...
I read rumors that Rare was thinking about making a 2D Donkey Kong Country 4 for WiiWare, but I'm having doubts. Nevertheless, that would be pretty cool seeing as we haven't had a DK platformer in ten years. I just hope it features Donkey Kong as a playable character, even though the tradition in the DKC trilogy was for the sidekick of the last installment to become the central character with his or her own new sidekick. I can't imagine an unpopular character like Kiddy Kong getting his own game though. I hope other aspects of the old DKCs such as the animal buddies and the interactivity with the rest of the Kong family are kept should such a game see the light of day.
Quote:I wonder if we might see a Rare game on Wii someday.
Only if Microsoft dumps them and they somehow manage to survive the process.
I dunno, there's Rare games on GBA that were made after the switch. Did they do a DS game yet?
A new DKC would be the bees knees. A smaller version of DKC 64 with more old skool gameplay and 2.5-D levels would be perfect.
Great Rumbler Wrote:Only if Microsoft dumps them and they somehow manage to survive the process.
Microsoft's been dumping most of its other development teams, so there's a chance... only the British ones (Rare, Lionhead) seem to have really survived so far.
A Black Falcon Wrote:Microsoft's been dumping most of its other development teams, so there's a chance... only the British ones (Rare, Lionhead) seem to have really survived so far.
They're not really being dumped though. They're just being closed up and forgotten.
Quote:I dunno, there's Rare games on GBA that were made after the switch. Did they do a DS game yet?
They did some GBA and DS games because the Xbox360 isn't really competing against Nintendo's handhelds. No way does Microsoft allow them to make a game for the Wii, it just won't happen.
That's what I meant, 'getting rid of'. That includes closure or leaving Microsoft (as with Bungie).
Hmm, IGN says Nintendo is going to drop a game soon that's "come out of nowhere and similar to Metroid Trilogy". I'm putting in my two cents as Starfox Trilogy. How is that possible? Starfox 1, the unreleased Starfox 2 (also SNES) and Starfox 64, all updated graphics and using the Wiimote/Nunchuck with motion controls similar to the Air Sports portion of Wii Sports Resort.
I just realized though, the developer on Starfox 1 (and 2 possibly?) was R&D1 (Nintendo) and Argonaught Software, the latter who I believe is gone. This might create problems for re-release or updating the game (it's not on the VC either).
A Starfox release without any truly new content (I believe Starfox 2 was unreleased though mostly finished) would be an excellent primer (hurr) for releasing an original game. Just like Metroid Prime Trilogy to Metroid OtherM. Alternatively, this could simply be a brand new Starfox sans the Fox's of olden yore. After all, updating a SFX-chip based SNES game to something of the graphics seen in Mario Galaxy would mean a lot of development. The SNES games had little to no background, empty fields and the only props were walls, enemies, though asteroids, trees and whatnot were found in certain levels. It would be a mighty effort to update those old games to current gen status.
Of course, it may not be a Starfox game at all. We could end up with F-Zero which is also welcomed with open arms. F-Zero has less of a chance of being a Trilogy release though since the original and F-ZX are on the VC. So i'd imagine it would be an original game or bust. New F-Zero only comes to mind because we're 3 years plus in to the Wii and there hasn't been a single F-Zero game.
And finally, a new Pikmin which is said to have been in development since before the Revolution was even announced.
Watch it turn out to be all the 2-D Mario games updated with the New Super Mario Bros. Wii graphics engine.
Nintendo's current "strategy" seems to be announce major games a month before they come out, not advertise them, and then just hope they sell... see Excitebots for instance... so yeah, whenever they announce something, I wonder when it'll be coming out.
But anyway, we need something, for sure... F-Zero or Star Fox would both be amazing, they're missing and sorely missed this generation. But yeah, I don't exactly have my hopes up yet...
lazy, I think it's more likely we'll see Starfox 64, Starfox Adventures, and Starfox Assault in there. Starfox SNES will most likely be on the VC, if it's not already, and I'd wager we will never see the cancelled Starfox 2.
Think of it this way. Earthbound has yet to be released at all, and the same goes for fully completed and translated games like Terranigma and Mother 1. If they aren't willing to put THOSE up, considering there would be NO work involved, do you think they'd be willing to get people coding in outdated versions of languages for outdated "virtualized" hardware just to finish a game they cancelled because they didn't think it would sell then?
Plus, it's not going to be very easy to try and sell people a package of two SNES games and one N64 game. They'd have nothing BUT screen shots of the N64 game on the back of it, for one. Secondly, it'll be very hard to convince people to purchase a full priced game for those old games.
Dark Jaguar Wrote:lazy, I think it's more likely we'll see Starfox 64, Starfox Adventures, and Starfox Assault in there. Starfox SNES will most likely be on the VC, if it's not already, and I'd wager we will never see the cancelled Starfox 2.
Starfox 64 is on the VC (SNES Starfox is not) SFA is Rare - Rare cant re-release the game because of its Nintendo characters and Nintendo cant re-release because its Rare's game, on top of that depressing note is the idea that SFA simply wouldn't sell that well, as it didnt do very well on Gamecube either. Starfox on Gamecube sold horribly and Nintendo already mentioned they were disappointed with the game and had to re-think their strategy of outsourcing IP, I think this was on the heels of its DS Starfox release as well. Starfox 2 for SNES was mentioned in a Nintendo Power issue where Miyamoto (signed on as producer I believe) said that "Maybe we could release the game as a promotional item or a giveaway for a contest, but for now there are no plans to do anything." the same line he gave about Ura Zelda. Given that Nintendo loves fan service (releasing Mario's and Zelda's Japan-only releases here) the possibility that the game is done and sitting on a hard drive is high.
EDIT - Wikipedia says the Japanese version of the game is completely done
That could mean the original SNES game could be released on VC as a special treat, but to be released as a Wii game package there would have to be more content in the form of current-gen. A Starfox (SNES) and Starfox 64 with updated graphics and control on Wii would be great to introduce an unreleased SNES game as an unlockable bonus. Beat original updated Starfox on the hardest path and whoosh - Starfox 2 is now available from the main menu.
Remember, the reason I attempted to build the idea of a trilogy is because of Matt's comment from an IGN podcast. But a Nintendo release of anything from Mario Party to Kid Icarus (or just finally showing the new Zelda trailer) is possible. But I know a LOT of people are looking for F-Zero and Starfox and that's with absolutely no word from Nintendo. I think the basis of the lack o these games is this:
How do we offer F-Zero with a fresh approach? Excitetruck and Bots: Trick Racing did a good job of giving us fast paced racing with lots of jumps and air with a sideways Wiimote but F-Zero is a subtle integration of racing simulator with arcade racing. Then you have MotionPlus - A new F-Zero game will probably be controlled with Wiimote and Nunchuck with turning on the Wiimote (held normally pointing towards the screen) and drifting with the control stick or vice versa. Even with MotionPlus a Wiimote-only version of the control setup would not only be less satisfying but counter-intuitive to the series, not to mention that Mario Kart, Excitetruck and Bots already covered that base.
Wiimote only:
D-Pad up = boost
D-Pad down = Hold while thrusting left or right to knock opponents
D-Pad left or right = shift weight
1: accelerate
2: brake
Shake wiimote to initiate a 360
Tilt wiimote during flight to alter center of grav and change direction/trajectory.
Now the problem with this setup a side from offering nothing new to he series or to Wii-owners is that with all of our control in the wiimote means:
A.) D-pad too cluttered for responsive controls during intense gaming, accidental button presses, etc (this can be countered by moving some of the functions to the Plus and Minus buttons, but which would require the player to awkwardly position their hands or reposition the wiimote in orientation, accidentally steering, or having to remove their thumb from the gas).
B.) The execution of a 360 dring gameplay would mean that by shaking the wiimote you are possibly interfering with the control of your car's direction, but placing the 360 execution as a button would simply remove the player from the experience.
C.) A side from nuances in gameplay, it would 'feel' the same as previously released games. You would have to change so much of F-Zero's core gameplay mechanics to make it feel original that it would barely resemble an F-Zero game. This might prove more lucrative since the F-Zero series has become more tired since the release of GX - after all, taking the core gameplay, what more can you do with the game? Let's say F-Zero Wii boasts 200 cars on screen, more intense speed (for fun, let's say it's another 300 years in the future), actual flight (not gliding, actual propelled flight, even to the point to have courses with little to no solid ground) and more mechanics that involve causing opponents to crash without resorting to weapons or items. Even with all of this going on, it would still feel like a sequel to Excitetruck or Bots.
So I can understand Nintendo's dilemma, they want it released fresh and offering something new even down to how its played. Starfix will face all the same issues - how to make it new. We've done the asteroid level on several different consoles and is somewhat a staple to the franchise so how do you make that brand new? Gamecube brought its graphics to offer a ton of content on-screen and the DS brought its touch controls. Elevated GC graphics with transposed DS controls isn't enough to vault the series in to a new stand alone product as a flagship release - if it were just an updated though previously reeased game its understandable. Metroid Prime Trilogy is a good example as with any other New Play Control budget release. But a brand new installment means a new experience.
I wouldn't put it past Nintendo to look in to Balanceboard integration for F-Zero (if Raving Rabbids can use your butt to play minigames, why cant your butt control your shifting in F-Zero?). The new games have to fit in to Nintendo's mantra; It has to look exciting without even seeing what's on the screen and it has to be balanced enough with enough of an offsetting edge to make a casual and pro alike feel like its something's new as to even the playing field.
Quote:Think of it this way. Earthbound has yet to be released at all, and the same goes for fully completed and translated games like Terranigma and Mother 1. If they aren't willing to put THOSE up, considering there would be NO work involved, do you think they'd be willing to get people coding in outdated versions of languages for outdated "virtualized" hardware just to finish a game they cancelled because they didn't think it would sell then?
Well, Starfox will sell more than Earthbound. That's what Nintendo believes, but you have to remember that Starfox 2 wasn't canceled because of worries that it wont sell. Nintendo was looking down the barrel of the new console release with Project Reality and the affairs with Argonaught Software weren't exactly cut and dry (a western company). As you probably know, Starfox 64 uses a lot of Starfox 2's ideas. The Landmaster tank, All-Range mode, boss 'arenas' as apposed to constantly moving forward, dogfights with AI, Star Wolf Team, IPB Missiles etc are all based on Starfox 2, oh not to mention multiplayer. But Starfox 2 had transforming Arwings that went from flight to ground patrol, a hummingbird type of gameplay mechanic during space battles was also added so that you essentially stop in space and each character has his or her own style of ship with its own stats, ie: Peppy was better in a tank than flying, Falco was better in flying than on the ground, Fox was balanced in all modes, etc.
Nintendo knew Starfox 2 would sell, in fact I believe the Japanese version of the game was completely done. It was just the N64's looming presence that took its torch. Also, Starfox on the DS is probably a spiritual successor as its also made by Argonaught and uses many of the Starfox 2 elements, but unfortunately I only got to play it for like 5 minutes while in a store... I wonder if I can find a copy.
Quote:Plus, it's not going to be very easy to try and sell people a package of two SNES games and one N64 game. They'd have nothing BUT screen shots of the N64 game on the back of it, for one. Secondly, it'll be very hard to convince people to purchase a full priced game for those old games.
...that's why I said the games would have to be updated to current gen graphics and the issues that it would bring up. But as I said previously, a SNES as-is ROM is fine in a game compilation with current gen content.
lazyfatbum Wrote:A Starfox release without any truly new content (I believe Starfox 2 was unreleased though mostly finished) would be an excellent primer (hurr) for releasing an original game. Just like Metroid Prime Trilogy to Metroid OtherM. Alternatively, this could simply be a brand new Starfox sans the Fox's of olden yore. After all, updating a SFX-chip based SNES game to something of the graphics seen in Mario Galaxy would mean a lot of development. The SNES games had little to no background, empty fields and the only props were walls, enemies, though asteroids, trees and whatnot were found in certain levels. It would be a mighty effort to update those old games to current gen status.