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Gokarts Vs. Expensive foreign cars. Nintendo has done everything right.

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Fanboys a side, the Wii is in trouble. And more so than it already was.

Right now, the 250 dollar Myfirstconsole that is the Wii has hit its ceiling and not in terms of graphics or gameplay. We've yet to see what the system that is "2.5" a Gamecube can do when the Gamecube can still impress with TP, RE4 and etc and I suspect by this time next year Zelda will give us that insight but I can tell you who wont be bringing it.

Any third party.

Why is that you may ask, with all the install base and the ability to cash in on something that brought two ii's in to our collective language.

Rip music, store and stream movies and download full games to its 60gig hard drive off a huge exclusive network, play proscan DVDs, jump in to the world's largest online gameplaying community with the option to actually interact with your friends and enemies and enjoy the best graphics to be seen since... ever and put it all in a package that's 50 bucks more than a Wii. Who are you going to develop for?

Sony said two years ago "oops" in regards to its PS3 and vowed to make it right and push the system back on track (read: not suck). After releasing the PSPGo and intelligently removing the ridiculously useless UMD feature and lining up software for it instead of just hoping that people want a second ipod, Sony unveiled the PS3Slim which amazingly enough is still the size of 4 Dreamcasts yet actually looks like a console now instead of a sunroof from a 89' Toyota.

50 bucks more than a Wii gets you in (80gig hdd), just like 360 and the kick in the pants for PS3 is that their constantly evolving Home network is finally getting off on both its legs, even though it still needs the wheelchair for long trips it's getting better and by this time next year will be a fully fledged contender for XBox's network. Laugh at it's inability to play PS2 games which doesn't matter since you already own a PS2 and raise an eyebrow to its Bluray instead and believe me once people get a look at what a Bluray movie looks like in comparison to old DVD a Bluray player with a built in videogame console will attract even mom and dad. Throw in a handful of exclusives, the same ports from 360 and all the set top box fun of an all-in-one entertainment hub and where do you want to spend your money?

The last fat nail in the coffin is motion control. All 3 contenders have it now. The coming '362', built in Bluray and "Natal" included in box and a PS3Slim with Eye2 and Bluray. Both asking you to spend a monthly bill for its services and both poised to rid your boredom. Mind you, either of those systems with their motion upgrades are going to be more expensive than Wii by at least $100 and probably more for launch supporters, but in a year from launch that wont be the case.

Wii is winning by a good margin and the world proved that it would rather spend 10 minutes playing Mario Kart (ignoring the superior Excitebots) or a quick game of Resort than play anything the PS3 or 360 can muster on its best day. Nintendo proved without a doubt that players want to expand and the market has grown but dont look at demographics or percentages here, there's Wii's in hospitals and not for the cancer patients, its for physical therapy and it works. It's daycares for children and the elderly a like and people that would have never picked up a controller bought Wii Fit in numbers to rival any Zelda release. How many consoles did you see on talk shows, news discussions, etc in a positive light in the last 4 years? Wii. And recently the 360 made its rounds with its motion controller and the PS3 is only mentioned in passing among people who buy gold tooth caps but is finally making some right decisions.

So that's great, Nintendo's 'Fitness machine' has grabbed the heart of millions at the cost of alienating everyone else in gaming. There's only one plausible outcome: The people who purchased Wii will want to expand and if Nintendo doesn't deliver on an expansion beyond that little cube at the end of the Wiimote they're going to upgrade to a 360 or PS3 and play some high def, 7.1 photo realistic archery and tennis while talking to their out of state girlfriend live on cam who's downloading the original Pacman that they'll play online together after the Blueray Watchmen live discussion all on the same damn machine that's only slightly more expensive than the Wii.

Nintendo is about to get their ass handed to them, or so it seems. But there's something to keep in mind: Nintendo knew all of his was coming and they're the reason we even throw around terms like in-game avatars, motion control and (dare i say it), market expansion. When they cleaned up their mess from Gamecube and unleashed shiny white hell on the masses they said upfront "We're going to reinvent the industry." and they did, there's no doubt and that's not with sarcasm. They're killing Ms and Sony with both hands tied behind their back and forcing both companies to blatantly admit defeat and formulate their own brand of Wii for their infinitely more powerful consoles and not only that, but a better version of what's capable on Wii that promises even more interactivity and you dont even need to hold a fucking controller.

This is beyond the typical Nintendo fix; Release a flagship IP. Nintendo can throw down new Zelda and Metroid in the face of 360's and PS3's motion controller, they can drop to $150, cut the Wii mote down to $30 with MotionPlus built in and beyond a few months of salvation and kicking NPD numbers, it will fall in comparison eventually because the absolute best the Wii can do is only a 10th of what either PS3 or 360 can do with its new toys (and its other features). Nintendo can unleash a new Balanceboard game that captures our hearts/wallets and grab those same people who pick up on weight loss fads but again, give it a year and it loses steam. Let's face it: Microsoft and Sony are about to give us everything and more the Wii can do and do so without cutting back on what Nintendo calls 'core' titles which roughly translates to 'actual video games'.

The only thing that makes sense is that Nintendo has stored its nuts these past years as it collects money off DS and Wii and now waits to attack when the others show off their improvements. Unless Nntendo has some forehead slapping genius of something we never expected my prediction is that Nintendo is about to make two playing fields. Further the Wii and then offer the option of WiiPlus. Slowly fading out the Wii as WiiPlus gains momentum.

WiiPlus would have the statement of 'I'm the next step' at a higher price than Wii, but would it be a set top box? Streaming movies, playing DVD's and music? I dont know. Those things are just icing on the cake, a much more powerful HD cake. A cake that is probably poised to be the necessary home accessory to the Facebook and ipod crowd and something that can handle a multi-console release of Resident Evil 6. I think it's going to be an attachment to the Wii at first, I think this attachment will either have a hard drive or a 50gig (or more) flash drive to steady itself for the coming onslaught of digital distro. And I think 2 years down the road, we'll be trading in our upgraded modulated Wii's with its modular upgrades with WiiPlus for the WiiPlusLite.

But all of this culminates in to one ominous question. What will Nintendo have to separate itself from Ms and Sony and warrant a purchase over the two, when each system is going to be available at similar price points and offer the same brand of motion focused gaming?

Right this moment, if this were a horse race, the bets are being taken now for the event that starts in about 6 months to a year from today and the Wii, who's won every event for 3 years, has a broken leg. Neither consumer nor developer is going to bet on it and unless there's a miracle, it's going to be dog food.
People have been writing Nintendo's obituary for years now, but none of it has come true. I don't expect it to be any different now. :)

It is true that Wii sales are slowly dropping, but it's still the top seller, and there are plenty of things Nintendo can do to increase them, like wait for Christmas, release the black Wii, etc. I don't think they have anything to worry about.
Wii took off because Nintendo transformed into the very thing I remember Nintendo die-hards despising most about Sony and Microsoft; a Casual Gaming Factory. Nintendo used to be for the hardcore gamer, weaned on the tit of 8-bit. Now you use your Wii and DS for aerobics, Sudoku and quitting smoking.

Not that I personally find anything wrong with this change of direction, mind you. It is rather hilarious, though, that Nintendo fanboys never raised a fuss about it after decrying the "casual gamers" of the PlayStation and Xbox for god knows how many years.
A Black Falcon Wrote:People have been writing Nintendo's obituary for years now, but none of it has come true. I don't expect it to be any different now. :)

It is true that Wii sales are slowly dropping, but it's still the top seller, and there are plenty of things Nintendo can do to increase them, like wait for Christmas, release the black Wii, etc. I don't think they have anything to worry about.

Go lay down. You either didn't read the points I posted or have no clue to what you speak of.

Weltall you're right but you have it ass backwards. The 'casual' of the Playstation 1 and 2 era were people who wanted to play hardcore games, no figure skating or puppy walking here, it was third person shooters with as much depth as a kiddy pool and they were making the market a shovelware festival. Nintendo fans were quick to point out that the Zelda's, Mario's etc were games with serious depth and could be played for 100's of hours, we didn't want 'gangstas' buying games because 'her ass is hot' or 'yo in this game you get mad pussy'. Those 'casuals' in our eyes were going to ruin the industry which was set to happen before the Wii changed things up. That's not Nintendo propaganda, the industry was in trouble for everyone.

The lack of deep consoles games by 2005 (or more accurately, the huge number of shovelware) was making everything bad, the entire problem came from what the Playstation 1 and 2 had caused, heavy saturation just like the Atari. And because these games were being pumped out so quickly, the quality of everything was way down, people stopped buying and even the holy PS2 was slipping in Japan. GTA 2 was made really well, so every company and their brother made a cheap version of it and tried to cash in with low quality versions of the genre. It got to the point that high quality versions couldn't even sell well.

That's exactly what's happened with Wii. Music games hit a huge buzz that went from a low rumble to everyone's must have. Guitar Hero 2's sequel was raising eyebrows everywhere and nobody knew what Rock Band was. After the launch of Guitar Hero 3 the flood was ridiculous, it was like every developer jumped on to make a music game (including Nintendo) and all of them did mediocre because what was popular had lost its sheen and now that it's over saturated and people moved on to something else buzz worthy. Wii Music was such a disaster I doubt Nintendo will even include a musical instrument in the next 3 Zelda games because of it. I think it did 5 million worldwide but Nintendo was expecting every Wii owner to gobble it up.

But the problem with Wii isn't casual gamers, it's the studios who are quite literally taking cell phone games and porting them to a console that is more powerful than the original XBox. Why are they selling cell phone games? Because data suggests that small games like Wii Sports, Wii Play and etc do extremely well so the bandwagon hit just like it did with the music genre. Now we're flooded and the Wii only falls in to two categories: Crummy mini games or fitness. It's a horror novel out there, and the worst was when Nintendo released the sequel to Excitetrucks - Excitebots.

Excitetrucks did amazingly well, it launched with the system and raked in the dough every month and sells well. It does so well, the game is still 50 bucks almost everywhere. A *launch game* 3 years later at full price. So the hype machine started when the developer for Excitetrucks announced its working on a game, when the first screens of bots hit it was mixed feelings all around. People who followed the story knew it was the spiritual successor to trucks but everyone else looked at the cover art and said 'oh, a mini game' because it's animals and insects approach alienated the racing fans who wanted more trucks or cars. In fact, every message board I went to had people around my age looking for a sequel to Excitetrucks to include multiple vehicles, tanks, ambulances, cop cars, taxis, jet powered buses and the ability to transform in to boats or helicopters when the road changed. Or hitting ( ! ) symbols to create traps, burn bridges (or create them) or make a catapult that would basically cause a truck throw on yourself and no one else to reach shortcuts. etc etc, tons of ideas for a racing game based on real vehicles with arcade physics and loosely based on the Excitebike series.

All of these ideas were thrown away for a more 'family oriented' presentation and what we got was wacky racing. So not only did they alienate the fans, but they turned green consumers away because it looked like another shovelware game. In fact, I saw people buy Excitetrucks and not look twice at Excitebots because "the boxart looks gay." The only commercial I saw for Excitebots had a dad playing with his 3 year old son.

Now, like now now, Nintendo has made itself a cozy grave. There's a hint of Zelda, the updated Super Mario Galaxy and Metroid that showed more footage of FMV's than actual gameplay. From third parties? Let's take a look:

101-in-1 Party Megamix Nintendo Wii Party/Parlor 1 - 4 Oct 27, 2009
8 Ball All Stars Nintendo Wii Simulation TBA
A Boy and His Blob Nintendo Wii Adventure Oct 2009
A New Beginning Nintendo Wii Adventure 1 Year 2009
Academy of Champions Nintendo Wii Sports Nov 2009
Active Life: Extreme Challenge Nintendo Wii Simulation 1 - 2 Aug 2009
All Star Cheer Squad 2 Nintendo Wii Rhythm Year 2009
And Yet It Moves Nintendo Wii Puzzle 1 Q4 2009
Animal Kingdom: Wildlife Expedition Nintendo Wii Q3 2009
Aquatic Tales Nintendo Wii Puzzle TBA
Arc Rise Fantasia Nintendo Wii RPG 1 Year 2010
Astro Boy: The Video Game Nintendo Wii Oct 20, 2009
Bakugan Battle Brawlers Nintendo Wii Action Oct 20, 2009
Band Hero Nintendo Wii Rhythm Q4 2009
Ben 10 Alien Force: Vilgax Attacks Nintendo Wii Action 1 Oct 2009
Big Bang Party Nintendo Wii TBA
Bob Ross: The Joy of Painting Nintendo Wii Simulation TBA
Cabela's Big Game Hunter 2010 Nintendo Wii 1 - 4 Sep 29, 2009
Call of Duty: Modern Warfare Nintendo Wii Shooter Nov 10, 2009
Calling Nintendo Wii Adventure 1 Q2 2010
Cave Story Nintendo Wii Adventure 1 Q3 2009
Chaotic: Shadow Warriors Nintendo Wii Nov 10, 2009
Cloudy with a Chance of Meatballs Nintendo Wii Action 1 - 2 Q3 2009
Colorz Nintendo Wii Puzzle TBA
Crow Nintendo Wii Shooter 1 TBA
Cursed Mountain Nintendo Wii Action 1 Year 2009
Dead Space Extraction Nintendo Wii Shooter 1 - 2 Sep 29, 2009
Deca Sports 2 Nintendo Wii Sports Q4 2009
Defenders of Law, Inc. Nintendo Wii Puzzle 1 TBA
Demae Channel Nintendo Wii TBA
Demonik Nintendo Wii Action 1 Cancelled
Diner Dash Nintendo Wii Strategy Q3 2009
Dirt 2 Nintendo Wii Racing Sep 8, 2009
DJ Hero Nintendo Wii Rhythm Q4 2009
Doc Louis's Punch-Out!! Nintendo Wii Sports 1 Year 2009
Dragon Master Spell Caster Nintendo Wii Adventure 1 - 2 TBA
Dragon Quest X Nintendo Wii RPG TBA
Drawn to Life: The Next Chapter Nintendo Wii Action Q3 2009
EA Sports Active More Workouts Nintendo Wii Sports Q4 2009
Endless Ocean 2 Nintendo Wii Simulation Q1 2010
Eternity's Child Nintendo Wii Action TBA
Family Fun Football Nintendo Wii Sports 1 - 4 Q3 2009
Family Party: 30 Great Games Outdoor Fun Nintendo Wii Party/Parlor 1 - 4 Q4 2009
Fatal Frame 4: Mask of the Lunar Eclipse Nintendo Wii Adventure 1 TBA
Final Fantasy Crystal Chronicles: The Crystal Bearers Nintendo Wii RPG TBA
Final Furlong Nintendo Wii Simulation TBA
Flip's Twisted World Nintendo Wii Action Jan 1, 2010
Food Network: Cook or Be Cooked Nintendo Wii Simulation Year 2009
Fragile: Farewell Ruins of the Moon Nintendo Wii RPG 1 Q4 2009
Furry Legends Nintendo Wii Action Q4 2009
G.I. Joe: The Rise of Cobra Nintendo Wii Action Q3 2009
Geon Nintendo Wii Action Year 2009
Gladiator A.D. Nintendo Wii Fighting 1 - 2 Q1 2010
Gravitronix Nintendo Wii Action 1 - 8 TBA
Grease Nintendo Wii TBA
Grotesque Tactics: Evil Heroes Nintendo Wii Strategy Q4 2009
Guitar Hero 5 Nintendo Wii Rhythm 1 - 4 Nintendo Wi-Fi Connection Q4 2009
Guitar Hero: Van Halen Nintendo Wii Rhythm 1 - 4 Dec 22, 2009
Hajimete no Zapper Nintendo Wii TBA
Harry Potter and the Half-Blood Prince Nintendo Wii Q3 2009
Harvest Moon: Animal Parade Nintendo Wii Simulation Q4 2009
Harvest Moon: Magical Melody Nintendo Wii Simulation 1 Aug 2009
Harvest Moon: My Little Shop Nintendo Wii Adventure Q3 2009
Iron Man 2 Nintendo Wii Action Q2 2010
Jambo! Safari Animal Rescue Nintendo Wii Simulation 1 - 4 Q4 2009
Job Island Nintendo Wii Simulation Year 2009
JU-ON: The Grudge Nintendo Wii Oct 2009
Just Dance Nintendo Wii Rhythm 1 - 4 Q4 2009
Karaoke Revolution Nintendo Wii Rhythm Q4 2009
Kirby Nintendo Wii Action 1 TBA
La-Mulana Nintendo Wii Action TBA
Lead the Meerkats Nintendo Wii Simulation 1 TBA
LEGO Harry Potter: Years 1-4 Nintendo Wii Adventure Q1 2010
LEGO Rock Band Nintendo Wii Rhythm Q4 2009
Line Attack Heroes Nintendo Wii 1 - 4 TBA
Lord of the Rings: Aragorn's Quest Nintendo Wii Adventure 1 - 2 Q3 2009
Mario & Sonic at the Olympic Winter Games Nintendo Wii Sports Oct 13, 2009
Marvel Ultimate Alliance II: Fusion Nintendo Wii Action Year 2009
Medieval Games Nintendo Wii Party/Parlor 1 - 4 Oct 2009
Metroid: Other M Nintendo Wii Action Year 2010
Military Madness: Nectaris Nintendo Wii Strategy Nintendo Wi-Fi Connection Q3 2009
Mini Ninjas Nintendo Wii Action Sep 8, 2009
Monado: Beginning of the World Nintendo Wii Adventure 1 TBA
Monster Hunter Tri Nintendo Wii Adventure Q1 2010
Mr. D Goes to Town Nintendo Wii Party/Parlor 1 - 2 TBA
Muramasa: The Demon Blade Nintendo Wii Action 1 Sep 8, 2009
MySims Agents Nintendo Wii Adventure TBA
NBA 2K10 Nintendo Wii Sports Year 2009
Need For Speed Nitro Nintendo Wii Racing Nov 17, 2009
New Play Control! Chibi-Robo Nintendo Wii 1 TBA
New Play Control! Pikmin 2 Nintendo Wii Strategy 1 - 2 TBA
New Super Mario Bros. Wii Nintendo Wii Action 1 - 4 Q4 2009
No More Heroes 2: Desperate Struggle Nintendo Wii Action 1 Jan 2010
Orb Nintendo Wii Action TBA
Pirateology Nintendo Wii Action TBA
Planet 51 Nintendo Wii Q4 2009
pop'n music Nintendo Wii Rhythm Nintendo Wi-Fi Connection Q4 2009
Pro Evolution Soccer 2010 Nintendo Wii Sports Q4 2009
Project H.A.M.M.E.R. Nintendo Wii Action Cancelled
QJ Nintendo Wii Rhythm TBA
Rabbids Go Home Nintendo Wii Adventure Nov 3, 2009
Red Steel 2 Nintendo Wii Shooter Year 2010
Reel Fishing: Angler's Dream Nintendo Wii Sports Year 2009
Resident Evil: The Darkside Chronicles Nintendo Wii 1 - 2 TBA
Rirakkuma Nintendo Wii Party/Parlor Year 2009
Robocalypse: Beaver Defense Nintendo Wii Action Q3 2009
Sadness Nintendo Wii Adventure TBA
Sakura Wars: So Long, My Love Nintendo Wii Strategy Q3 2009
Sam & Max Season Two Nintendo Wii Adventure 1 Year 2009
Scooby-Doo! First Frights Nintendo Wii Action Sep 2009
SD Gundam REVOLUTION Nintendo Wii Action TBA
Secret Files 2- Puritas Cordis Nintendo Wii Adventure Year 2009
Sengoku Basara 3 Nintendo Wii Action TBA
Shadow Tower Nintendo Wii Adventure 1 TBA
Shaun White Snowboarding: World Stage Nintendo Wii Sports Q4 2009
Shimano Xtreme Fishing Nintendo Wii Action Q3 2009
Shiren the Wanderer Nintendo Wii RPG Q2 2010
Silent Hill: Shattered Memories Nintendo Wii Action 1 Q4 2009
Sin & Punishment 2 Nintendo Wii Shooter Q1 2010
Sled Shred Nintendo Wii Racing Q4 2009
Sonic & SEGA All-Stars Racing Nintendo Wii Racing 1 - 4 Nintendo Wi-Fi Connection Year 2010
Soul Eater Monotone Princess Nintendo Wii Adventure TBA
Span Smasher Nintendo Wii 1 - 2 TBA
Spectrobes: Origins Nintendo Wii Adventure Q4 2009
Spore Nintendo Wii Simulation TBA
Spore Hero Nintendo Wii Adventure Q3 2009
Sports Challenge Nintendo Wii Sports TBA
Spyborgs Nintendo Wii Action 1 - 2 Sep 22, 2009
Star Wars The Clone Wars: Republic Heroes Nintendo Wii Action 1 - 2 Sep 2009
Super Mario Galaxy 2 Nintendo Wii Action Year 2010
Super Meat Boy Nintendo Wii Action 1 - 2 Q1 2010
Super Monkey Ball Step & Roll Nintendo Wii Action TBA
Tales of Graces Nintendo Wii RPG Q4 2009
Tatsunoko vs. Capcom: Ultimate All Stars Nintendo Wii Fighting 1 - 2 Q4 2009
Tecmo Bowl Wii Nintendo Wii Sports Year 2009
Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles: Smash Up Nintendo Wii Fighting 1 - 4 Nintendo Wi-Fi Connection Q4 2009
The Beatles: Rock Band Nintendo Wii Rhythm Sep 9, 2009
The Grinder Nintendo Wii Shooter 1 - 4 Nintendo Wi-Fi Connection Q4 2010
The Legend of Zelda Nintendo Wii Adventure Year 2010
The Secret Saturdays: Beasts of the 5th Sun Nintendo Wii Action 1 Oct 2009
The Sky Crawlers: Innocent Aces Nintendo Wii Action Q4 2009
Thorn Nintendo Wii TBA
Tony Hawk: Ride Nintendo Wii Sports Nov 17, 2009
Tornado Outbreak Nintendo Wii Adventure Sep 2009
Toy Story Mania Nintendo Wii Party/Parlor 1 - 2 Year 2009
Trace Memory 2 Nintendo Wii Adventure Year 2009
TrackMania Nintendo Wii Racing 1 - 4 Nintendo Wi-Fi Connection TBA
Trauma Team Nintendo Wii 1 - 2 Q1 2010
Uno Nintendo Wii Party/Parlor Q3 2009
Valhalla Knights: Eldar Saga Nintendo Wii RPG 1 - 2 Q3 2009
Vektor Tank Nintendo Wii Action 1 - 4 TBA
Wacky World of Sports Nintendo Wii Sports Q4 2009
Walk It Out Nintendo Wii Rhythm TBA
We Cheer 2 Nintendo Wii Rhythm Q4 2009
Wee Curling Nintendo Wii Sports 1 - 4 TBA
Where the Wild Things Are Nintendo Wii Oct 2009
Wii Fit Plus Nintendo Wii Simulation Nintendo Wi-Fi Connection Q4 2009
Wizardology Nintendo Wii Action TBA
Yoga Nintendo Wii Simulation Nov 2009
You, Me & the Cubes

The Grinder, Secret Saturdays and Gladiator A.D. are now up in the air as Conduit is just not doing well in the reviews. People wont put faith in HV's games and no one will buy Conduit because of the bad press it got (its actually really good, but Halo ((any of them)) is better, a lot better, in terms of graphics and presentation). Conduit reminds me a LOT of Goldeneye and PD, but will most people care? Does anyone want to hear that Conduit has great gameplay?

Silent Hill, Monster Hunter, Darkside Chronicles, Red Steel 2, No More Heroes 2, Metroid OtherM, Ju-on, Dead Space Extraction and Cursed Mountain are the only games I'm hearing from people. Then there's New SuperMarioBros. Wii of course and the unofficially announced Zelda, but lets focus on third party. 11 games to support Nintendo over the next year, 9 of them from third parties.

Lord of the Rings: Aragorn's Quest is on my list, but that's only because Kuju is developing the game (Battalion Wars developers, their art style and gameplay design is just awesome). But no one knows what it is, when its coming or what you do in the game. It has cute graphics (like Battalion Wars) so of course, that's going to turn a lot of people off from the game.

Most people dont even know what Ju-on is since it cant be called "The Grudge" because the American title is copyrighted but the game looks brilliant. Darkside Chronicles wont do well, its going to face Deadspace and that game is just plain excellent, "another" RE rail shooter wont be welcomed. 'Cursed Mountain? What's that?" No More Heroes sold like shit, I dont expect NMH2 to do any better. Silent Hill has street cred but there's a lot of 'Wii is gonna fuck it up'. Madworld, Okami, Zack and Wiki shit I could name a dozen games that are great that NO ONE IS BUYING.

After this year, there wont be a third party out there that will say 'yes i'll develop on Wii." There's a huge market, the Wii is holding the whole world, but the only games that sell are fitness games and I use that term loosely, it doesn't need a picture of a woman doing yoga on the front. Fucking Wii Cheer is doing well. WII CHEER???

The Wii needs the developer to customize their shaders and as one developer said in early 2005 'Next gen games wouldn't exist without shaders." So because the Wii has the dev needing to customize their programs to include their own shaders they take the easy route and develop none or re-use PS2 shaders. This is why a console more powerful than XBox that made fuckin Ninja Gaiden Black has graphics that make people snicker. Monster Hunter looks good, but it could be a thousand times better. Same for Darkside and Silent Hill. It's a damn joke. And are the third parties going to push hardware when We Cheer is outselling The Conduit? Punch-Out!! hasn't even broke a million. At this point, the Balance Board has outsold Twilight Princess, Super Smash Bros. Brawl, Super Mario Galaxy, The Conduit, Metroid Prime 3 and Punch-Out!! COMBINED

Think about it for shit's sake, i'm not a Nintendo hater talking shit, I do my homework and i'm usually pretty damn good at predicting this stuff. What i'm seeing is bad. A black Wii is not going to fix it.
Quote:The lack of deep consoles games by 2005 (or more accurately, the huge number of shovelware) was making everything bad, the entire problem came from what the Playstation 1 and 2 had caused, heavy saturation just like the Atari.

Do you remember the NES? I do. Roughly nine out of every ten games released on the NES ranged from 'boring' to 'absolute horse shit'. It happens every time a single console controls the market against weak or nonexistent competition. Every developer out there knows that a flooded market creates opportunities for basically any kind of game, so we have all sorts of crazy, ugly, horrible games that have to sell as few as a thousand copies to turn a profit.

The NES and the original PlayStation, minus the clear difference in technology, were basically the same console with the same premise: tons and tons of games, some of which are good, a few of which are great, and the rest of which weren't worth the black plastic they were made of.

And, though it made finding a good game difficult, there are lots of bad games that sell very large numbers of copies. The problems facing the game industry were less the flood of titles (as the really great ones were continuing to break records) but rather the aging practices of the companies making, selling, licensing and distributing these titles.
True but you have to see the growth as well, you're comparing apples to bath tubs. The NES days of the industry was nothing compared to now. Trends were easy to follow and about everyone was on even playing fields. Huge gaming mags didn't start until the 90's, there was no internet and previews and reviews were one in the same in the mags that did exist, like Nintendo Power that started in 88. The Playstation brand brought a long with it the advent of reaching more consumers, getting more players to the table, it was Majora's moon consuming the world and bringing the industry up by turning it against itself.

The NES had 794 games for it worldwide and mind you that's a large catalog. As of September 30, 2007, a total of 7,918 were released on the PSX. The PS2 has about 1700 I believe which is still climbing. What i'm saying is that on the NES while you had a large number of games to choose from things never got out of hand. When Playstation hit it sought to devour the world and take the industry down with it by flooding everything so much, it was like there was no point. Confusing or alienating the consumer, or confusing and alienating the developer. Then either the consumers stop buying or the developers stop developing while they all fight for a place on the totem pole, which is exactly why everyone jumped ship when PS3 hit, now it sails like a ghost ship.

This is what I see happening with Wii, but as salt to the wound it's been labeled as minigames and fitness. It would be a different story if we could complain about all the fighting games, RPG's, flight sims and arcade shooters, FPS and puzzle games that were hitting the PSX like a machine gun. ;P

So I see your argument and why you find it ironic but honestly it's too different eras and that makes it seriously difficult to match up. It's too much of a gap in what the industry was to what it became.

On a smaller scale though, the Wii is hurting its own fans and developers, it's following fads and while that's all fine and dandy, you better have a real game console underneath all that krap. But I have a feeling this is all controlled chaos, I think Nintendo's blue ocean is about generating a fad to boost bank accounts, but there's no long term sanctuary there, that's also why I said earlier that Nintendo needs a miracle to get out of the bad situation they're in, above and beyond the software dilemma.
Another factor that's kinda interesting is that back in the day, it was so easy to see a cash in - a throw away game. Sometimes there were surprises, like the Disney games that were always decent and sometimes great (Ducktales, Mickey's Mansion, etc) and then you had Cool-Spot (remember him?) that was a decent cash in, but today it's literally about demographics. That started with PSX when developers were trying to get their games noticed in the wall of titles at the store. Instead of people having interesting ideas and passion like the 4, 8 and 16bit days, it was corporations buying and selling other corporations and having their games made by groups of market researchers. And God help some upstart that did have good ideas and passion, he'd be bought out before he could publish the game. Just like the film industry buys scripts so they *dont* get made.

Thankfully that's turning around now with digital distro and user generated content.
lazyfatbum Wrote:True but you have to see the growth as well, you're comparing apples to bath tubs. The NES days of the industry was nothing compared to now. Trends were easy to follow and about everyone was on even playing fields. Huge gaming mags didn't start until the 90's, there was no internet and previews and reviews were one in the same in the mags that did exist, like Nintendo Power that started in 88. The Playstation brand brought a long with it the advent of reaching more consumers, getting more players to the table, it was Majora's moon consuming the world and bringing the industry up by turning it against itself.

No, the NES days weren't like 1995, because Nintendo had the market all to itself. Nintendo was able to dictate the terms of videogaming almost entirely. They basically owned everything, and if you wanted to publish a game, you went along with Nintendo's predatory licensing structure. You had basically no alternative but the Sega Master System and the approximately 35 people who owned one.

Sony did not have any such luxury at first because they did something that no other console developer ever managed to pull off successfully--take on both Sega AND Nintendo at the same time. That's why, in those early days, Sony made a number of wise moves: making the console relatively inexpensive, attractive to developers with easy programming and low licensing fees, and aggressive courting of basically everyone out there who wanted to make a video game. This did result in a flood of garbage, but it had to happen. If Sony played by the established rules, they never would have gotten off the ground.

Quote:The NES had 794 games for it worldwide and mind you that's a large catalog. As of September 30, 2007, a total of 7,918 were released on the PSX. The PS2 has about 1700 I believe which is still climbing. What i'm saying is that on the NES while you had a large number of games to choose from things never got out of hand. When Playstation hit it sought to devour the world and take the industry down with it by flooding everything so much, it was like there was no point. Confusing or alienating the consumer, or confusing and alienating the developer. Then either the consumers stop buying or the developers stop developing while they all fight for a place on the totem pole, which is exactly why everyone jumped ship when PS3 hit, now it sails like a ghost ship.

The NES had far more that 800 games. I downloaded a torrent that had 9000 ROMs. After culling out all duplicates and most variants/homebrews, I had close to 3000. Considering that the PlayStation ended up selling close to three times as many units as the NES, that's a consistent ratio. And, most of those 3000 games were remarkably terrible games.

You also must factor in that the NES and its games, adjusted for inflation, were much more expensive than the PlayStation and its games. That goes perhaps double for today. Adjusted for inflation, the average new NES game would cost about $90 in today's money. Games are simply much cheaper now than they used to be, which also contributes to the flood. A new PlayStation game usually retailed for $40 in 1996, which would have been about $60 in 1986. PlayStation games were not only much cheaper, but the gamers who grew up asking Mom and Dad for NES games as gifts were now getting old enough to buy their own PlayStation games.

The reason the PS3 stumbled so badly was because of the ridiculously high price tag. Developers saw a $600 medium for their games and understandably balked when the cost of development runs into multi-million dollar figures. It was the same fatal error that killed machines like the 3D0: machines that are too expensive, compared to the competition, will kill all the advantages offered by superior technology. 360s were $300-$400 and the Wii was $250. There's no bigger correlation to sales numbers than console price in most cases.


Quote:So I see your argument and why you find it ironic but honestly it's too different eras and that makes it seriously difficult to match up. It's too much of a gap in what the industry was to what it became.

It really isn't that different. The technology is different, yes. Certainly, there are more gamers now than ever before. But, basically, the Wii seems to follow the NES's path to success: Make the console cheap and flood the market with as many games as possible. Of course, the NES competed with nothing until its final years when the Genesis came out and was a superior machine in all regards, technologically.
3000??? I was off but wiki says http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Fam...uter_games

1,057 including the American releases, I think you got a bunch of unlicensed3 games or something.

Hmm, I'm not explaining myself very well but i'll think on it
Both of those lists include games the other does not. If you combined the unique titles in each, you'd get a higher number than 1,057.

My collection also includes Chinese, European and other worldwide games as well. There are a bunch of unlicensed ones in there too, I'm sure . . . but there were lots of those on the PlayStation, as well.
First: the NES had 700-800 US releases or so. Add all the Japanese exclusives, etc, though, and yeah it's in the thousands.

Second...

Weltall Wrote:No, the NES days weren't like 1995, because Nintendo had the market all to itself. Nintendo was able to dictate the terms of videogaming almost entirely. They basically owned everything, and if you wanted to publish a game, you went along with Nintendo's predatory licensing structure. You had basically no alternative but the Sega Master System and the approximately 35 people who owned one.

Sony did not have any such luxury at first because they did something that no other console developer ever managed to pull off successfully--take on both Sega AND Nintendo at the same time. That's why, in those early days, Sony made a number of wise moves: making the console relatively inexpensive, attractive to developers with easy programming and low licensing fees, and aggressive courting of basically everyone out there who wanted to make a video game. This did result in a flood of garbage, but it had to happen. If Sony played by the established rules, they never would have gotten off the ground.

Yeah, exactly. I should have said this in my previous post as well, but i just ignored the whole "shovelware" part because it's really completely irrelevant, as you say. Every successful console gets lots of it. The fact that Wii has it is no news, and means nothing.

The fact that Wii has far too few major third party releases is a good point against it, though. The system has far fewer major third-party titles on it than you would expect consider how successful it is... most of the more successful third-party stuff is borderline shovelware minigame collections, and that's really too bad. Why do most Wii games look like PS2 games at best, looking even worse a lot of the time than your average Gamecube game? How does this make sense? So yeah, I would agree with some criticisms of the Wii... but still, it IS winning, because of its massive success in the casual/nongamer markets, and Nintendo has made games that hit straight at that market. They've been less successful with their other goal of also making things to satisfy the hardcore, last year in particular where they had pretty much nothing after SSBB in the spring, but that's the fault of third parties as well as I said... and this year they announced a good number of games for everyone, including NSMB Wii, Mario Galaxy 2, Zelda (sometime), Metroid, etc. Third parties are not matching that, and it is too bad... but even so Wii is a good console, with a massive game library including a reasonable if somewhat too small number of good to great games.

Of course, a lot of this is because the 360 (and to a lesser degree PS3) have captured the hardcore gamer market, while the NES of course controlled the entire market, so pretty much all games would be on the system, not just ones for a specific market group. But is there any sign of the 360 catching up to and passing the Wii in sales or success? No, I think not. Natal's their effort at that, but I don't think it'll be enough to catch Nintendo, Nintendo is too far ahead... and WILL come up with ways to reverse the slow slide they've been in for some months now. They did some of that already, with their announcements earlier this year... we'll see how things go as the year goes on and we get towards the holiday season, when the most money is made.

Oh, Sony and MS are definitely both pressing them right now, with their price drops. Eventually Nintendo will probably be forced to drop their price as well. Will the Sony and MS price drops just announced be enough to do that? Likely not, but eventually they'll have to do it, and it'll obviously increase sales, as will the black system, etc. But even just as they are they really are in good shape, Sony and MS are cutting prices because they're trying to compete better, but Nintendo's the one they're chasing. As the leader they don't necessarily have to change much until/unless they actually feel threatened, which I think they are not really right now.

I do think that Nintendo would be helped a lot by a price cut this year, though. They might not do it... but they should.
No one's understanding it and I dont know how to explain it and ABF/Weltall do you even have a Wii? Have you gotten frustrated with finding actual games for it? Again it's not just shovelware and again, comparing the NES to Wii just doesn't match up. A side from the dissection of the NES era to the Playstation era comparisons, the Wii has shovelware and no bright spots for actual gamers.

It's not like we can say "Yeah there's a lot of krap, but there's a lot of great games." No, there's a handful of games and it's not enough to keep anyone interested unless they're buying the system for fitness (which is exactly what a lot of third parties are banking on). At the last get together, one of Nintendo's main unveiling was the heart sensor. Now a controller with a built in sensor to measure your BPM and temperature can have thousands of gameplay options but a clip that immobilizes your finger is just backwards thinking for gaming. It's going to be a game of Tetris played with just the Wiimote where you control the speed by keeping your heart rate down and breathing properly, or a Wii fit update for zen centering and controlled breathing.

This is going to entice non gameplayers for sure who will love the novelty and break it out at parties but where does that leave everyone else?

Ryan no matter how much you nitpick the numbers, the PSX unleashed a much larger number of games than the NES and on a much larger scale in a much larger industry (saying much, much to much). The third parties didn't have to kill each other during NES, it was like everyone had equal chance of success on the shelf but with PSX there were so many games so quickly, ramped costs, etc that companies resorted to cannibalism and pushed the market in to a deadzone. Even with everything Wii and 360 have done thus far, that threat of a deadzone still looms because it's been huge road to recovery.

Japan got sick of huge games, "time consuming games" etc so in Japan the more mini and the idea of a 'break' that it gives the better it will sell. But in America we want huge time consuming games so we can get fatter and have more fictional lore to debate. With PS3 playing its cards as well as its doing now and 360 already sailing perfectly with its bad hardware in the past and nothing but blue skies ahead of it, the Wii is going to enjoy phenomenal success with people who will probably buy 4 games for it the entire time they own it (not counting VC). The entire industry is slowly getting off the fence and either fully supporting Wii or abandoning it (or cashing in on something) so you have Capcom release a flagship RE5 on 360 and a rail shooter on Wii, then you have Red Steel 2, TMNT:SU, Silent Hill, etc but what's going to happen when these games see moderate if not mediocre success? With NES, PSX, PS2, soon to be 360 etc, even with a flooded market the good games sold well (considering, though is it no wonder that people today are just finding out about SH1 and 2?), but that wont happen on Wii.

If Silent Hill and JU-ON bomb, Red Steel 2, too then prepare to watch third parties jump ship like the launch of the PS3. Am I the only one that can see the logic there? ABF especially, I dont think you have any clue what i'm talking about. I'm not saying the Wii is dead or krap or not a good system right now, i'm saying it's on track to fail unless Nintendo does something and you can already see that failure unfolding.
Weltall Wrote:Both of those lists include games the other does not. If you combined the unique titles in each, you'd get a higher number than 1,057.

My collection also includes Chinese, European and other worldwide games as well. There are a bunch of unlicensed ones in there too, I'm sure . . . but there were lots of those on the PlayStation, as well.

I looked (briefly) but couldn't find a game on the Famicom list that wasn't also on the NES list using its translated name. Even Battletoads is listed on the Famicom list, is there a place to find a definitive answer to how many games are on the NES, PSX, etc?

Though, since we're both Americans in America and we buy American games and systems (with a few exceptions), I think it's safe to say that the NES had 800 official releases with PSX in the thousands just in America. Let's not bring world wide releases in to it since I dont know enough about the Japanese market during those eras or the impact it had on American gaming. What I do know is that the PSX raped the shit out of everyone with thousands of games and that is not the same as what the NES did with its era. The NES left behind growth and a stronger industry, the PSX didn't, though that's only half right. It was the developers who suffered or became a multimillion dollar overnight success depending on your view and if that's part of what you meant in how the Wii is mirroring the PS2 than I see your worries. If a Balanceboard outsells Zelda and Mario combined, does that mean we're just a year away from no-name companies throwing more gadgets and peripherals at us? Tony Hawk RIDE anyone?
Quote:Ryan no matter how much you nitpick the numbers, the PSX unleashed a much larger number of games than the NES and on a much larger scale in a much larger industry (saying much, much to much). The third parties didn't have to kill each other during NES, it was like everyone had equal chance of success on the shelf but with PSX there were so many games so quickly, ramped costs, etc that companies resorted to cannibalism and pushed the market in to a deadzone.

You're ignoring a lot of the factors, here. It wasn't just that the PlayStation pushed out more games. That was an effect as much as it was a cause, and initially, it wasn't successful. The N64, with its library of approximately 6 games, was able to outsell the PlayStation for the first year, even with it having three or four times as many titles available at cheaper prices. The PSX simply didn't have a marquee game that could compete with Super Mario 64. It wasn't until Final Fantasy VII came out that the PlayStation truly had a flagship title. That game alone sold countless PSX units (mine included), and that's when the flood really began to make a difference. It became something of a poker game with Sony playing every hand and Nintendo holding out only for the biggest. Sony wore Nintendo down by nickle and diming and winning big hits like Resident Evil 2 and Metal Gear at a frequent enough pace that Nintendo's super hits like Ocarina of Time could not, by itself, propel the N64 beyond the PlayStation. The PSXs success fed off of itself, and before long, it wasn't even really much of a contest anymore.

Sony won the battle against N64 as much for Nintendo's mistakes as its own successes. The N64 was a console whose games were more expensive, and relied almost entirely on about a half-dozen terrific games to sell the machines. It didn't work. It was a strategy that essentially hinged on Nintendo trying to sell the N64 on the strength of a few games and a marquee brand name, hoping that Sony would devour itself trying to keep pace.
The PlayStation featured 1,239 NTSC releases.

The numbers tell a dramatically different tale.

US SALES
NES: 34M
PSX: 41M

NUMBER OF GAMES RELEASED IN NORTH AMERICA
NES: 794
PSX: 1,239

RATIO OF AVAILABLE TITLES:CONSOLE SALES
NES: 23:1
PSX: 30:1

The numbers, insofar as 'flooding' is concerned, are quite similar. Factor that the PlayStation faced strong competition and the NES did not, and you have two consoles that 'flooded' at a very comparable rate.

As for your claim that the NES left behind a healthy industry and the PlayStation did not, that's absolutely absurd. The PlayStation left behind a market that was able to support three major successful consoles for over five years. The 16 Bit era (and 32, for that matter) could never support a major third player. The NES left behind a healthier industry than it found at the beginning, though the industry in 1985 was as dead as Tony Randall.

That the smaller third-party developers died or were absorbed is actually indicative of a stronger market. If five hundred companies on a licensed format are able to compete, it means that none of them are doing particularly well and that general sales as a whole are low enough that the risk/reward ratio for making a new game is basically even. A strong market demands either great resource or great risk. The power third-parties of today were all small at some point, but were able to parlay risk into great success and build upon it. The ones that vanished were the ones that failed to do this. It's natural economics. Even on a macro scale, corporations will consolidate as the overall market expands.
That might make for better business but it makes for shittier games! D;
That's debatable. As I said, a vast majority of the NES library was complete garbage, too.

I mean, if a console has 800 games (or 1200), how many of them really have to be legendary? I'm sure as hell not going to buy more than fifty games for any given console anyway. You need those shitty, low-investment/high-return games to grease the wheels of the market. Nintendo seems to have learned that lesson, finally. They were turning profits forever, but Sony pulverized them for ten years in overall marketshare. Nintendo spent almost two decades in a love-hate relationship with any developer that the company itself had no controlling interest in. In the NES years, they dominated developers with forced exclusivity contracts, ridiculously draconian content control and inflated licensing fees. That was why when Sega came out with the Genesis and offered developers a much more relaxed business environment, they were able to keep pace with the Nintendo juggernaut. Finally, they came up against Sony, which took away that key advantage of greater resources, and Nintendo spent a decade at the rear of the pack.
Yeah, Lazy's "more games is bad" attitude here is just bizarre. First, yeah, I don't have a Wii. I've never said I did. But I have been in game stores many times, and looked at the Wii games quite a bit... and yeah, there's lots of junk there. But again, that's the sign of an actual seriously successful platform! It'd been so long since Nintendo had had one that we Nintendo fans had forgotten what it looked like...

... I mean, I do agree at the core to the idea of quantity over quality. And as I said as a 'core' gamer I'm definitely not that happy with Nintendo's casual-first focus; Nintendo is doing better, but I'm seeing probably even fewer Wii games I'm interested in than I did GC ones... not sure about that, but it sure seems that way sometimes! And then the third-party games are all PS2 ports... it is kind of depressing. So I do probably agree that the current situation is good for Nintendo's bottom line, but not so much for core gamers on the platform...

But still, with how successful the Wii is there ARE games for gamers on it. Some people forget this, but it IS true. I know I've seen plenty of Wii games I'd like to get when looking at the shelves... it probably would be best when complimented with another gaming platform (360, PS3, PC), but it's not like EVERYTHING on the system is bad licensed games and minigame collections.

Of course the fact that there are so many games makes it harder to find the good ones, but for someone like me who loves to go to game stores and look through what they have, I don't mind that aspect of it at all. :)
It's not more games are bad, I actually said several times that we need more games. It's too much of the same games that are bad, cashing in on whatever the market eludes to (ie: music, fitness. mini games, etc). I think that's where the confusion is and you're not understanding what I'm attempting to explain.

If the Wii had 1200 games of every genre with shining examples of those genre... I mean if I said name a great and exclusive PSX shooter, RPG, puzzle, fighting, action/adventure, 2-D side scroller, quirky/music, 3rd/1st person shooter/platformer, and realistic or arcade racing, you'd have an answer for each one and they would be must plays for each genre. Do you guys get it yet that the Wii doesn't have that? Like, at all?
http://nintendo-revolution.blogspot.com/


Smooth ride up until now

The Wii needs a price cut fast and here is why. Up until now, Nintendo has had a very smooth ride this generation. They started out with the lowest price proposition by far and the most revolutionary, intuitive and immersive control scheme and biggest fun factor to top it all off. At least, that is what more than 50 million people around the globe think.

Sure, the white box can only deliver 480p as its top resolution. And the rest of its hardware is equally modest, making sure that most graphics-intensive games by third parties get either a toned down version, a completely unique adaptation (some examples are ´Overlord: Dark Legend´, ´Dead Space Extraction´, ´Resident Evil: Darkside Chronicles´) or pass the console by completely. But, all the unquestionable Nintendo goodness aside (´Metroid Prime 3´, ´Zelda: Twilight Princess´, ´Super Mario Galaxy´), hardcore gamers got a few third party gems, too. Particularly in the survival horror genre, Wii boasts more titles than any other console ever offered, I reckon (I have counted 20 already) and some are absolute must-haves. So, Wii sold to new gamers as well as to veterans, who probably own more than one console anyway. And it has been smooth sailing for Nintendo up until now, with Wii selling about as many units as the two competitors put together.

Microsoft seemed to endlessly tweak the SKU variety of their Xbox360 as well as their price. And, leaving the elusive fun factor aside, the 360 has been the best value proposition by far for a long time. But even this circumstance could not change the reality that is each companies' respective market share. Sure, Nintendo has hit dry spells in the past, with other consoles selling more units for a few months in one territory or another. But these dips were usually related to a lighter release calendar. When bigger titles drew nearer, sales rose again.

Software no longer moves hardware

Not anymore, it seems. The news of Wii hardware sales taking a 30 percent dip in the US last month despite the release of ´Wii Sports Resort´ should have Nintendo worried. Very worried, in my opinion. Because the title should move hardware as much as any other Nintendo game. A gigantic marketing campaign in the US should have made sure that the consumers were aware of the release. The fact that it did not move a significant amount of hardware can only really mean one thing: everyone that wanted to buy a Wii in the said territory has bought one. If a title like ´Wii Sports Resort´ cannot invigorate sales, then no title can (at least not of Nintendo's casual variety, which undoubtedly was the backbone of the console's success). The only option available to Nintendo of America may be a price drop. This would surely convince more people to hop on the Wii bandwagon. But software no longer seems to move hardware.

Upcoming games to disappoint

First, a little reality check: Am I being unfair here? Of course, all the other consoles sold badly in July. Well, yes. But the PS3 only took a 25 percent dip and the 360 went down a mere 15 points, only half of the Wii's loss. That is a significant difference. But what about other territories? In Japan, year-to-date year-over-year changes show big losses for the console. Europe may be the Wii's last resort (this is actually a double pun, if you remember an obscure PC game from 1996) but a worldwide downward trend is becoming clearer and clearer, it seems.

But what about other upcoming titles, particularly the third party portfolio, which is still a sore spot for Wii owners? Surely, exclusive titles like ´Monster Hunter Tri´ or ´Red Steel 2´ will sell hardware to the traditional crowd, if the more casual titles now fail to shift consoles. Unfortunately, I have it on good authority that both of these highly anticipated games will not deliver. They may look nice, but both titles are being rushed out of the door. Wii owners will have a few good survival horror titles to mull over. But there is no shortage of those on the platforms. So a ´Dead Space Extraction´, no matter how good it will be, will not become the killer app that a polished ´Monster Hunter Tri´ could have become.

Price cut the only solution

Especially with the PlayStation3's price drop and sleeker re-design, as well as motion control around the corner for both high definition consoles, Nintendo is coming under intense pressure this generation for the very first time. The only way out seems to be a price cut, preferably to be announced around Tokyo Game Show next month (though Nintendo will not exhibit, as always). I do not see any alternative for Nintendo (and I am not alone with this opinion), if they want to maintain the impressive momentum they have exhibited so far. This is the curse of a runaway success: maintaining it. After all, a boom, in economics, is a highly unstable and volatile state. And if they do not re-position the Wii's price point, Nintendo may soon find out the hard way.

http://www.joystiq.com/2009/08/13/july-n...ort-soars/

http://www.joystiq.com/2009/08/14/analys...ce-launch/

imo I dont think the price cut will cut it. Even at 150, Nintendo hasn't proved themselves as a real game console so they'll still lose grasp on the game playing market. Even if they still beat the pants off MS and Sony with fitness and minigame krap, WE lose... except for the promise of a Zelda here or a Metroid there.
In the above article proclaiming that software doesn't move hardware, i'll be very interested in seeing how much the hardware 'doesn't move' when Arkham Asylum is released. It's not that great software wont sell Wii consoles, it's that it's not the software we want.

And a side note, Nintendo testing the hardcore waters? http://kotaku.com/5347591/nintendo-bring...s-nintendo
lazyfatbum Wrote:It's not more games are bad, I actually said several times that we need more games. It's too much of the same games that are bad, cashing in on whatever the market eludes to (ie: music, fitness. mini games, etc). I think that's where the confusion is and you're not understanding what I'm attempting to explain.

If the Wii had 1200 games of every genre with shining examples of those genre... I mean if I said name a great and exclusive PSX shooter, RPG, puzzle, fighting, action/adventure, 2-D side scroller, quirky/music, 3rd/1st person shooter/platformer, and realistic or arcade racing, you'd have an answer for each one and they would be must plays for each genre. Do you guys get it yet that the Wii doesn't have that? Like, at all?

Sure, it is true that the Wii doesn't have enough games. But it's also true that there are plenty of games on the system that don't get much respect... sure, though, that is partially because of their often lower budgets, etc. And yeah, I don't have one, and sure when I look in the store (of play them, in the times that I have played Wii) there are definitely too many bad games and minigame collections. I want Rayman 4, not (Rayman) Raving Rabbids 4... :(

But still, as I said, it actually DOES have games, good ones. Enough? Sure, no. But it has them.
Why yes, yes it does. It has lots of bad games, well now that you agree with the prior 30 posts do you care to comment on what should be done concerning the recent price cuts of the more powerful systems who are tallying a much more productive and interesting library of games?

No?

You want to debate something for no reason and then agree with my original point?

Hold on, leme get some tea started! I'll BRB

*POOPS ON YOUR FAVORITE SHIRT*
But your original post says that you think it's bad that the system has so many bad games. I don't really agree, it's just a sign of the system's success. So sure, it has a lot of bad games... but it's not actually a problem.

And I also said that it does have more decent games than it's often given credit for, I think.

As for price, I always agreed that yes, Nintendo should drop it. I think that it should have been $200 from day one, actually, the $250 price was kind of ridiculous. It worked... but it was ridiculous.
...

Okay, so since i'm the only one who actually understands or cares what's going on i'm going to be compiling information here.

This is from EA banter on the hopes of Dead Space: Extraction sales. For those of you out of the loop DS:E is a rail shooter with a lot of survival horror and adventure elements - based off the survival horror game of the same name for the other consoles.

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“One of the explanations we have is that there’s a lot of double ownership,” said Dr. Jens Uwe Intat, European VP at Electronic Arts. “So people having a Wii and a 360 and/or PS3. They’re really playing different types of games on those two machines, and historically up to now we assume those people will have played the more mature content on the more high-tech machine.Dead Space: Extraction is going to be a very nice test of that hypothesis, because we’re really building a game where the Wii version is very different to the Dead Space game on 360 and PS3, and we’ll actually see whether we can reach more people with a) a great game and b) interesting content.”

---

More and more companies are throwing this at the consumer. Buy the game or we'll stop producing content. It's a warning that stems from the lackluster sales that everyone is receiving across the board on Wii unless you're pushing a fitness or partygame. EA will no doubt not reach the sales numbers they want on Wii with DS:E, so this will push EA to reconsider any 'mature' titles.

These third parties are plain tired of losing money and not only will they will tighten up their mature and core development on Wii, but ANY development on Wii. That means fewer fiscal releases (mostly holiday probably) and more dancing/rthym or mini game shit. I dunno how their sports are doing on Wii, but I hear good numbers, so more investment will be put there and Wii will miss out on any actual games from EA. Remember that interview where Criterion talked about how much fun it would be to use the Wiimote to steer? EA's also got some huge games coming all in the mature and core arena and its no skin off their nose to pass up Wii. My prediction is that Dead Space: Extraction will do some numbers, but nothing that will warrant EA from pulling their 'serious games' from Wii.