Tendo City

Dawkins is cool, I wonder what it would have been like to have him as a teacher?

In the beginning, we were all fish. Swimming around in the water. And then one day a couple of fish had a retard baby, and the retard baby was different, so it got to live. So Retard Fish goes on to make more retard babies, and then one day, a retard baby fish crawled out of the ocean with its mutant fish hands... and it had butt sex with a squirrel or something and made this retard frog-sqirrel, and then *that* had a retard baby which was a... monkey-fish-frog... And then this monkey-fish-frog had butt sex with that monkey, and that monkey had a mutant retard baby that screwed another monkey... and that made you! So there you go! You're the retarded offspring of five monkeys having butt sex with a fish-squirrel! Congratulations!

'Pregnant Man' Gives Birth To Second Child

Quote:"LOS ANGELES, Calif. -- Thomas Beatie, the so-called "pregnant man," gave birth to his second child on Tuesday, ABC News reported. The child, a boy, joins sister Susan Juliette.
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Thomas, formerly Tracy, decided to keep his female reproductive organs before undergoing a sex change operation and made headlines last year when he was photographed with a beard and a baby bump.

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His wife, Nancy, will reportedly nurse the boy, as she did with Susan. The couple has not yet decided on a name.

The pair announced Thomas' second pregnancy in an interview with Barbara Walters last November.

The baby boy arrived right on schedule - he was due on June 12. "

They should call the baby "Eric Cartman", Since his father was also his mother.

I wonder what effect all those male hormones "Tracy/Tom" took will have on the baby?

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How's he gonna push a baby out his penis? (Yeah, I know, C-section.)

Geno Wrote:How's he gonna push a baby out his penis? (Yeah, I know, C-section.)

Probably out his ass like Arnold Schwarzenegger .

This Tom beatie freako still has a vagina and a uterus, Had her boobs removed before she suddenly realized that she still wanted to squeeze one out before she pays the doctor to make her a penis.

I'm sick of hearing about the "pregnant man". A woman who gets a sex change is, physiologically, still a woman.

So a very dedicated transsexual woman had a baby. Why is this international news?

So you don't think that transexuals are real or something, and they should always be considered their physical gender even if their mental gender is different? That's wrong...

I mean yeah, he is a physical woman with some surgery, so sure it makes sense. But it is a story for sure. For one thing, I'm not sure how often people who go that far with surgery would actually want to have a child themselves, instead of using a surrogate... isn't it reminding you of the gender you don't want to be or something? That is a little strange. But beyond that... no, not so much.

EdenMaster Wrote:I'm sick of hearing about the "pregnant man". A woman who gets a sex change is, physiologically, still a woman.

So a very dedicated transsexual woman had a baby. Why is this international news?

Seriously, it's just a woman posing as a man. Whether a trannie or just a simple tomboy, a woman is a woman and a woman getting pregnant is normal. If there actually was a pregnant man, then that'd be interesting news, but that isn't the case here. This story is about a pregnant woman who, on a completely unrelated note, feels and acts like a man and wants to be a man.

It's what we call the news! (Thank you, JibJab.com.)

Quote:This story is about a pregnant woman who, on a completely unrelated note, feels and acts like a man and wants to be a man.

It's not unrelated, though. Gender isn't a purely binary thing...

A Black Falcon Wrote:So you don't think that transexuals are real or something, and they should always be considered their physical gender even if their mental gender is different? That's wrong...

I agree. I think it's a pretty significant point of contention that many transsexuals struggle with, the fact that many people see gender as only being physical when in reality it extends much deeper than that. It reminds me of the "argument" between homosexuality being a choice or something you really can't control, which is probably why the LGBT community tends to be so tight knit. People are unwilling to accept others for who they are, opting instead to label them by what they think they are. Whatever. "Pregnant man"? Fine, go ahead and be pregnant, man.

ABF, this isn't really about that. The issue is this isn't some huge scientific discovery. It's all using the plumbing that person, whatever you want to call it, already has. There's nothing amazing about it and it doesn't deserve to be international news. Whatever this means to that person as an individual, it's extremely misleading to say "man has a baby" in the way they are sensationalizing it to be.

I'm all for the freedom of someone wanting to do such and such to their body, and the fact is it does blur the lines in some ways, but our medical ability is extremely limited when it comes to a sex change. Until research into nanotechnology allows us to more or less reboot the growth process and alter it with hormones, all doctors are really doing is mutilating one gender's genetals to superfically resemble the other's. They are free to do that, but many important biological functions will be lacking, or in this case, will still be very much there and present. If "shim" wants to have a baby, go for it, if he wants to be a man, even say he wans to be called a man, that's his right, but the fact remains he's got a womb and ovaries and is pregnant. There's a lot of possible blurred lines, but this is not a "man having a baby" in the sense of some artificial womb being implanted. Yeesh does anyone here really have to defend against some claim of closed mindedness?

They can mentally be seeing themselves as a man, but that doesn't mean that them having a baby is some medical miracle.

But those who have surgery to do this is just the tip of the iceberg. What about the true transgenders? The ones that are born with genetalia that never developed in either direction? They're the ones that society has the biggest problem with, they're the ones that don't even "fit" in either convention. There's a full range of that sort of thing, and some of them are sadly the unhealthy kinds of disfigurments.

I guess what I'm saying is when a person very much born on the "man" side of the spectrum gets such an effective and true sex change that they get a fully funcitoning set of ovaries and a womb and THAT person gets pregnant, THEN you have a true astounding science thingamajigger. Someone born with a womb ending up using that womb? Not news. Now tell me the story about the dog that bit that man.

I agree with DJ: As much as this neo-man wishes to be accepted as a man socially, he just had his biology refute him.

Now, I agree that biology isn't entirely binary. Clearly, this is a woman who, mentally, does not want to be a woman. He made the choice to be a he, and is apparently happy with that choice. Society should accept that. However, as stated above, he still retains the legacy of his original gender, so it is disingenuous to state that a 'man' is having a baby. Despite wishes and outward appearance, this is a case of a biological woman bearing a child, and no amount of social tolerance and acceptance can change this.

How did the issue of tolerance come into this anyway? I'm not intolerant of this person's desire to be another gender. If that's what makes him happy, who am I to judge? This goes back to biology. No matter how deeply he feels that he should be a man, he is still physically a woman, so this issue is not about a "pregnant man" as if this is some startling new scientific discovery, that men can get pregnant. Though he is mentally a man, he is still biologically a woman. This issue is about a pregnant woman who doesn't want to be a woman at all, who doesn't feel he is a woman or that he should be a woman, but no matter how strongly he feels about the situation, he will always lack a Y chromosome and the sexual reproductive characteristics of a man.

The best he can do is have plastic surgery to shape his vagina into something resembling a penis, and beyond being able to urinate from said penis, he is unable to function as a man any further than that. He still has ovaries and a womb. That's something every transsexual should be aware of before having a sex change. Though it may not be the case with this person, some people don't seem to be aware that sex change operations are just cosmetic and do not biologically change one's gender. Mental gender? That's a whole other issue.

A Black Falcon Wrote:So you don't think that transexuals are real or something, and they should always be considered their physical gender even if their mental gender is different? That's wrong...

I mean yeah, he is a physical woman with some surgery, so sure it makes sense. But it is a story for sure. For one thing, I'm not sure how often people who go that far with surgery would actually want to have a child themselves, instead of using a surrogate... isn't it reminding you of the gender you don't want to be or something? That is a little strange. But beyond that... no, not so much.

You misread me, I have nothing against transsexuals, gays, etc. People can do what they like with their lives.

My point is that regardless of all the surgery this person gets, SHE is still a woman biologically, if not mentally. A woman having a baby is not newsworthy.

A Transsexual whose outward appearance is now very much male looking, Having a baby is news worthy at least for tabloid news anyway.

Tabloids have always made up phony stories about "pregnant men", Now there is a real case that's comes close to resembling it.

What would make interesting news is if a Hermaphrodite impregnated itself , You'd have human asexual reproduction occurring naturally.

Quote:You misread me, I have nothing against transsexuals, gays, etc. People can do what they like with their lives.

Actually, because you keep calling him a "she", you clearly do. He isn't a woman anymore.

Quote:My point is that regardless of all the surgery this person gets, SHE is still a woman biologically, if not mentally. A woman having a baby is not newsworthy.

A transexual man having a baby is, however.

Fittisize Wrote:I agree. I think it's a pretty significant point of contention that many transsexuals struggle with, the fact that many people see gender as only being physical when in reality it extends much deeper than that. It reminds me of the "argument" between homosexuality being a choice or something you really can't control, which is probably why the LGBT community tends to be so tight knit. People are unwilling to accept others for who they are, opting instead to label them by what they think they are. Whatever. "Pregnant man"? Fine, go ahead and be pregnant, man.

You're absolutely correct. That's exactly why it is such an important issue -- because of how much it matters, and how important labels are. Saying that a transexual person is not their current gender is indeed just like saying that a gay person isn't really biologically gay, they just chose to be that way and could change back if they wanted to... so yeah, that's defininitely why the GBLT community is so close.

Dark Jaguar Wrote:Whatever this means to that person as an individual, it's extremely misleading to say "man has a baby" in the way they are sensationalizing it to be.

The whole point of accepting transexual people as transexual is to counter incorrect beliefs like this one you just said here. That is wrong. I've already explained why though, so I won't repeat myself.

Of course you're right that we can't actually change someone's genes from XX to XY (or some rarer one that causes the kinds of gender uncertainties to a 'normal' one, should such a person actually desire it) can't be done, and we can't make a man into a fully functioning woman and vice versa. But really... at this point, THAT IS NOT THE POINT of getting transgender rights. You're looking at the whole issue completely wrong, focusing on the physical instead of the mental... but as humans, the mental is probably the more important aspect. The focus is on FEELING like the gender someone wants to change to -- with hormones and lifestyle, primarily.

I'm sure that if true reassignment was possible many transgender people would be interested, but given that many do not even do the surgeries we can, not all would I'd guess. But that's just not the point... there's more to gender than just that. And that's the point.

Geno Wrote:The best he can do is have plastic surgery to shape his vagina into something resembling a penis, and beyond being able to urinate from said penis, he is unable to function as a man any further than that. He still has ovaries and a womb. That's something every transsexual should be aware of before having a sex change. Though it may not be the case with this person, some people don't seem to be aware that sex change operations are just cosmetic and do not biologically change one's gender. Mental gender? That's a whole other issue.

To transexual people, the mental/hormonal aspect is usually considered more important than the physical aspect... that is, if you're living as the gender of your choice, and perhaps taking hormone drugs, that's enough. It isn't all that common to actually go through with full surgery. This makes sense really, because the brain is our most important organ, and if you're thinking and living as the gender you feel you properly belong to, it's satisfying.

Focusing just on the genitalia is something people outside do, but not people within the transsexual community.

(This doesn't help with people who don't have a clear gender and are kind of half one way and half the other, but it does with people who do have a clear gender they belong to mentally, at least)

Quote:A transexual man having a baby is, however.

It's not, really. If he retains the internal physiology of a female, why should anyone be surprised if, being inseminated, he becomes pregnant?

The whole point is, if I were to somehow become pregnant, that would most certainly be newsworthy, because by all accounts, I lack the necessary biological components necessary to produce eggs and offer an environment in which a fertilized egg can develop into a child. If I were to undergo surgery that installed said components in my body and they worked as well as any woman's, that too would be newsworthy.

But in this particular case, though he is a man now, he was not always, and the fact is, he was born already possessing all the necessary internal biology to bring this event to pass. Though in a technical sense he is a pregnant man, he still has attributes that other men do not. The news attention this garners is more for the sheer unusual nature of the event, not because it is an honest example of biology doing something it has never been capable of doing before.

ABF, you misunderstand me. I'm not talking about rights or their mental state. For the purposes of "is this an amazing medical event", that is irrelevent. The person, has a womb, that was never removed. The person has fully functioning ovaries. The person is now pregnant. In terms of a medical discovery, this isn't incredible at all. THAT IS ALL I'M SAYING! I am not in any way denigrating the person's rights. It's just a fact that someone with a womb and ovaries is capable of getting pregnant regardless of how they mentally see themselves. The only thing of medical note is that a c-section will be required. This is not a scientific breakthrough of any sort.

It would be identical to shouting "cat gives birth to human" because someone who mentally views themselves as a cat got pregnant and gave birth. More power to them, they have the right to mentally see themselves as a cat, even if they're wrong, and they have the right to get superficial surgery. I'm not even kidding here, there's people who get surgery to look more like cats. It's not something I would do, especially since it's just the brutal nature of our basic cosmetic surgery with all the side effects that brings. I would in fact call it foolish. However they're still human beings deserving all the rights to live their life as they choose that brings. However, medically nothing about someone physically sorta having a cat face having a human kid is impressive at all.

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/lo...man16.html

Here's a link to the guy, and some social commentary. Whatever you think of his choice and his views is irrelevent to whether this is an impressive thing medically.

At any rate, can we get back to the topic at hand? I never really wanted to talk about transsexuals. They're out there, they deserve the rights to live as they do, current medical technology is incapable of actually realizing what they actually want, and that's really all there is to say about that. Aside from violent crimes against them, at least there aren't laws going around affecting them.

ASM, could you stop posting completely random pictures and throwing every single thread you take part in into some random direction?

Labels do not change reality ABF. Words are merely tools.

Also, you're the one showing bias if you say "he's not a woman any more". Why not say "he's always been a man"? That's more accurate. After all, this surgery was entirely cosmetic. It didn't change his/her mental view of themself. Further, what does it matter waht someone else calls him? If someone calls him a her, that just means they have a different definition of what constitutes gender. It's just as valid, and at worst is merely being rude to the one that wants to be called something else.

It's just like that pluto thing. Defining "planet" is downright impossible in any absolute sense. Different people are going to have different exceptions where it gets fuzzy. Reality is not so kind as to conform to our mental demands. No matter what definition of planet we use, the variety of rocky bodies in space is surely going to have things at the fuzzy edges that challenge that word's validity. Someone can define gender in terms of outside physical similarity irregardless of function, as you have implicitly sorta said when you said "he's not a man any more" as in, not a man since the surgery. One can define it as how one mentally pictures themselves, under that definition the person was a man the moment they viewed themselves as such. One can define it genetically, but the flaw is those who have hormone imbalances that override the genetic coding during development. One can define it in terms of functional genetalia, but this line is blurred in those who have "undistinct" development where the genetalia partially resembles both, much of the time totally nonfunctional. In those cases, heck is the person a boy, a girl, neither, both, or do you use a gradiant scale and say 40% male and 60% female?

Words are tools but we must never forget that's all they are, and words don't determine reality, they are tools meant to DESCRIBE reality.

Calling someone a female when they prefer to be called a male is certainly rude. But, it's far different than a word that is clearly intended as hate speech. Call them "freaks" and then you have a point.

Heck, in a sense grouping the entire spectrum together is partly offensive. (For the record, socially, it's best just to go with how someone presents themselves socially unless they request otherwise, then it's polite to just go with that request.)

I'm saying don't let the hazy nature of words in and of itself create fights where none need exist. Reality already has a proper enemy for us, the people who actually do hate them, pick on them, beat them, and so on.

Along other lines, sometimes people will say that the people who are born with one body but want to change are genetically set like that. This may be true, but I've yet to see scientific studies to confirm or deny a genetic link. This does NOT make it wrong mind you, I'm just saying that the genetic link is not actually demonstrated. But, that is irrelevent to if it's okay or not.

Along those same lines, I actually think that people who argue "it's okay to be gay because they genetically can't help it" completely miss the point. That's a horrible way to justify it. The real justification is that it doesn't hurt anyone. After all, even if serial killers had an established genetic link, we'd still have to arrest them because that behavior DOES hurt people. People who say "gay people just can't help it" as their one and only defense are actually doing more harm than good.

Quote:it's okay to be gay because they genetically can't help it" completely miss the point.

I think the argument in this case is more "It's not okay to discriminate against gay people because it is a genetic inclination."

alien space marine Wrote:What would make interesting news is if a Hermaphrodite impregnated itself , You'd have human asexual reproduction occurring naturally.

That would require a human to have both reproductive organs fully functioning and there has been no record to date of such a case, so for now, that's impossible, but who knows where evolution will lead?

Weltall Wrote:It's not, really. If he retains the internal physiology of a female, why should anyone be surprised if, being inseminated, he becomes pregnant?

The whole point is, if I were to somehow become pregnant, that would most certainly be newsworthy, because by all accounts, I lack the necessary biological components necessary to produce eggs and offer an environment in which a fertilized egg can develop into a child. If I were to undergo surgery that installed said components in my body and they worked as well as any woman's, that too would be newsworthy.

But in this particular case, though he is a man now, he was not always, and the fact is, he was born already possessing all the necessary internal biology to bring this event to pass. Though in a technical sense he is a pregnant man, he still has attributes that other men do not. The news attention this garners is more for the sheer unusual nature of the event, not because it is an honest example of biology doing something it has never been capable of doing before.

That pretty much sums up how I feel.

Weltall Wrote:I think the argument in this case is more "It's not okay to discriminate against gay people because it is a genetic inclination."

I see what you are saying but it still hurts the cause of equality more than anything because it's not very well thought out reasoning. Whether they can help it or not isn't the point, though it is certainly relevant for the sake of scientific study. (In fact, current research supports both that some people can control it and that there is a genetic bias.)

What matters is very simple. How does it harm anyone? Some may say "it threatens marriage" but it doesn't really. Being gay doesn't hurt anyone, so therefor, there is no reason to discriminate, therefor such discrimination is wrong. That's all there is to it. In some, indeed many cases, it's a genetic influence that sets it up from the start. There's not enough evidence to support that being all cases, but some is enough. In some, it just can't be helped. However, saying that's a perfect excuse suggests that it would be just DANDY to discriminate if they COULD help it, and honestly, is that really the message you want to send?

On a related subject, along the lines of saying this person is a DEFINITE man and that's the ONLY word we should call him, well that's kinda like Bill O'Reily saying with absolute certainty there's only ONE valid definition of marriage, as if language doesn't change and shift over time and as if the definitions of words are somehow legally enforcable. (As an aside, I have to wonder, if they are claiming that calling gay marriage a "civil union" still gives them all the same rights, just under a different name, then why is it so important to waste the legal time to call it something else? What does it matter what it's called, and why does it need to be codified into law?)

Oh, and above all language as a tool must be useful. It's all well and good to say that if someone wants to be called a man instead of a woman, they have the right to request that, but we still need a word to describe their physiology accurately, so if, as you suggest ABF, we are morally obligated to always refer to him as a man, what word DO we use to identify what their internal physiology most resembles in a nutshell? Or, are we just supposed to gloss over that? Certainly, a doctor doesn't have that freedom, they have to know for certain if they are going to help them in any real way and what the person thinks of themselves mentally really doesn't change the method of treatment needed.

It's fine if you want that the defintion of male and female becomes a definition in terms of how someone sees themselves, but aside from the difficulty of "seeing one's self" as a gender necessitating an idea of what gender is to begin with, there's the difficulty of needing new words to replace the function the old ones had. In the end though, we already had a working solution all along. Words can have multiple definitions. Boy/girl can refer to all the possible definitions of gender, and really in context there's nothing wrong with that. It's only discrimination in the case where one refuses outright to accept one definition or another as valid. Saying this person is a girl (in terms of functioning uterus) is as accurate as saying this person is a boy (in terms of cosmetic alteration of the genitals) and that is as accurate as noting the person is a girl in terms of genetics. All are valid, and I suppose the best compromise is to simply add in notes as to what you are referring to. However, in the end such corrections were never really needed. No one here ever actually was screaming "freak" about this person or saying they shouldn't work at this or that place. This argument was pretty much meaningless.

Anyway, on the topic of the above, I thought the whole discussion those two biologists had was pretty involved. What I noted was pointing out that at best one's brain would just be programmed with a basic rule of, say, altruism with absolutely no sub programming as to WHY being altruistic helps the genes to survive. The behavior DOES, or did at one time, but evolution does "just good enough" adapting, so the brain never needs to understand WHY it wants to help people. Thus, the idea that we help people "for our genes" in terms of a subconcious "true motive" is not accurate at all. That "genetic motive" may be there, but genes are unthinking. Our brains get constructed with the rule but not the original "need" for said rule, so help people guilt-free. You're doing it because you want to help people, and the help to the genes is simply a consequence of that. Heck, misfirings happen all the time as a result. Because there's ONLY the rule "help people" you may help people in cases where it wouldn't help you reproduce at all. As they put it "your genes can jump in a lake" in that sense.

Sorry to come in here and "cheerlead", but I agree with everything DJ has said.

A Black Falcon Wrote:A transexual man having a baby is, however.

How so? What sensible person would believe that someone who identifies themselves as male, and someone who also happens to have the existing physiological means to bear a child as a female does, is something out of the ordinary or any kind of biological miracle?

Quote:You're absolutely correct. That's exactly why it is such an important issue -- because of how much it matters, and how important labels are.

As far as I see it, there's little disagreement among us here that transgendered individuals have the right to label themselves as they see fit and live by the gender of their choice (it might be hard to wrap your head around the idea at first, but gender is separate from sex). The actual disagreement arises in whether it's newsworthy that a transgendered male (or would that be "transgendered female"?) is impregnated.

You seem to regard it as some kind of political milestone that this is in the news, but I just don't see it that way. That the media would report on this isn't something that will significantly help the transsexual community. A transsexual person doesn't require this kind of attention to his/her life more comfortable. The only important thing is teaching tolerance and acceptance of their lifestyles. Even gay parades are a better political gesture than this.

Quote:Of course you're right that we can't actually change someone's genes from XX to XY (or some rarer one that causes the kinds of gender uncertainties to a 'normal' one, should such a person actually desire it) can't be done, and we can't make a man into a fully functioning woman and vice versa. But really... at this point, THAT IS NOT THE POINT of getting transgender rights. You're looking at the whole issue completely wrong, focusing on the physical instead of the mental... but as humans, the mental is probably the more important aspect. The focus is on FEELING like the gender someone wants to change to -- with hormones and lifestyle, primarily.

No one is getting smug and copping the attitude that "HAH! They're not ACTUALLY the gender they identify themselves with! They need a reality check!" We're saying that while we accept their lifestyles, it's misleading to put up a headline that implies that a person born with functionally male genitals is pregnant. The only reason anything physical is getting dragged into this discussion is how the headline can be misleading and read as something newsworthy, while in reality, the context certainly stamps out the excitement of the idea that such a physical anomaly could occur. That's it. Don't read too far into it or stuff words into our mouths. This entire argument is based on a strawman. This is more about opportunism in the media and baiting us into reading/listening to their content, not so much about transsexual rights.

If anything the media themselves are perpetuating a bad understanding of those who switch genders.

I'm going to go a little further and say that while I support people's right to do this sort of thing to themselves, I'm almost positive there are cases where it isn't a healthy course of action. There could be those doing this for reasons of mental illness akin to body dismorphic disorder, becoming addicted to plastic surgery because no matter what their physical appearence they consider themself a freak. For those, plastic surgery isn't as good an answer as psychological help. Note that I'm not going to say this applies in all or even most cases, just that it's certainly one thing to be aware of. Nothing about this particular form of cosmetic surgery precludes the possibility there may be mental instability involved, at any rate. As such, when someone announces they are making such a choice, before cheering them on through sleet and snow, it may be a good idea to root out the reasons they are doing this beforehand, just as you would for any other form of cosmetic surgery someone close to you may be considering.

Dark Jaguar Wrote:If anything the media themselves are perpetuating a bad understanding of those who switch genders.

I'm going to go a little further and say that while I support people's right to do this sort of thing to themselves, I'm almost positive there are cases where it isn't a healthy course of action. There could be those doing this for reasons of mental illness akin to body dismorphic disorder, becoming addicted to plastic surgery because no matter what their physical appearence they consider themself a freak. For those, plastic surgery isn't as good an answer as psychological help. Note that I'm not going to say this applies in all or even most cases, just that it's certainly one thing to be aware of. Nothing about this particular form of cosmetic surgery precludes the possibility there may be mental instability involved, at any rate. As such, when someone announces they are making such a choice, before cheering them on through sleet and snow, it may be a good idea to root out the reasons they are doing this beforehand, just as you would for any other form of cosmetic surgery someone close to you may be considering.

They have to live two years cross dressing as the other sex before they ever start having radical cosmetic surgeries.

There is one case of a sex change recipient reverting back to living as a man a few months after having a Male to female reassignment surgery, Even later suing the surgeon for doing the procedure.

How can he (or she... I'm going to borrow "schklee" from Futurama since "it" would be derogatory) sue schklis doctor over schklis own impulsivene indecisiveness? Again, this goes back to what DJ said about encouraging people who plan to seek cosmetic surgery to think their decision through first.

Geno Wrote:How can he (or she... I'm going to borrow "schklee" from Futurama since "it" would be derogatory) sue schklis doctor over schklis own impulsivene indecisiveness? Again, this goes back to what DJ said about encouraging people who plan to seek cosmetic surgery to think their decision through first.

He had a cross dressing fetish or something , Eventually he started to be so deep into the fantasy of being a women that he started to have a identity crisis, They say that he was emotionally troubled because of his turbulent childhood, They didn't properly psychoanalyze him. Like I said their supposed to wait two years before doing any surgery and they gave him a SRS in just six months, He suing them for misdiagnosing his condition.

Alan Finch is the case I mention

This is incredibly retarded. I get so sick and tired of some guy or girl that had some key experiences that made them believe they can be the opposite sex. Sexuality is sexuality, you can fuck anyone and anything, be attracted to anyone or anything any label used for any combination is just that - labels. When some asshole starts spouting 'it's genetic, I was born this way." I just want to strangle the idiot because he or she is putting himself/herself in the same basket as handicapped or the otherwise physically and/or mentally deformed.

We live our life, we have key moments of important development and that bridges us in to experimentation in societal standards that leads to lifestyles. Done. No DNA, no morality questions, we do as we're taught either directly or indirectly. Woman grows up in a family where mom had no respect for father and you have a pretty big chance of swaying that woman in to experimenting with bisexuality or homosexuality because they were never taught the sexual bullet points of why men are any good in the first place. This is so easy to understand and everyone acts like human sexuality is a god damn crackerjack prize. No matter how much you treat a boy like a girl, you cant make a boy like dick unless he wants to dominate males or be dominated by them. Done.

If the circus lady wants to gain some Gp for her and her other emotionally bunked causes, that's fine. We all like weird pics and a chick with facial and underarm hair who somewhat resembles an asian Justin Timberlake that will give birth to a 7 1/2lbs goldmine for therapists is A-OK, this is America, let's all gawk and wonder.

"Gay buses"

alien space marine Wrote:<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/zhKa-NVWEg8&hl=en&fs=1&"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/zhKa-NVWEg8&hl=en&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

... Awesome. It's so close to what you might expect someone like that to say that if not for the Onion News Network logo, I'd probably believe it... :)

I mean, what he's saying is absurd (making it sound so simple), but I could almost believe that some of those people might believe something like that...

Dark Jaguar

alien space marine

Geno

alien space marine

Geno

alien space marine

EdenMaster

A Black Falcon

Geno

A Black Falcon

Fittisize

Dark Jaguar

Weltall

Geno

EdenMaster

alien space marine

A Black Falcon

Weltall

Dark Jaguar

Dark Jaguar

Weltall

Geno

Dark Jaguar

Sacred Jellybean

Dark Jaguar

alien space marine

Geno

alien space marine

lazyfatbum

alien space marine

lazyfatbum

A Black Falcon