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Obama got himself elected on a campaign of hope and change, masking a dramatic lack of substance and a complete lack of experience. So it's no surprise that the first two months of his regime has, so far, been a complete disaster:
  • Spending more money than ever in our history ... money we don't have.
  • Creating the biggest debt in history.
  • Causing an inevitable wave of inflation which WILL happen, according to the laws of finance and economics
  • Scaring away the people he desperately needs to attract: investors.
  • Four!!! differnet cabinet appointees now charged as tax cheats!
  • The stock market plunges every time he or one of his cabinet members open their mouths ... it's like clock work to watch.:FuckYou:
  • Oh, and he's using a crisis to force through a socialist agenda that has nothing to do with economic revitalization ... quite the opposite, actually.
  • And, of course, all our enemies (Iran, North Korea, Russia) are rattling their sabres and laughing at this rookie in the office. His letter to Putin was nothing less than treasonous, an affront to our staunch Eastern European allies and likely to plunge us into a war.
I was, and still am, willing to give this guy the benefit of the doubt, but so far the Obama regime has proven to be a remarkable example of what you get when you vote for someone who smiles and says all the right things to millions of people who don't know any better.
*ignores thread topic*

When did you change back to Weltall? Confused
A long time ago. Pay some fucking attention, you scrote-sucking cum monkey.
This country is very, very fortunate that people like you have a small and shrinking role in deciding national policy, that's for sure. Reagan is gone, Reaganomics is a total failure, and Dick Cheney is a (sadly indicted) war criminal.

Oh, and whoever mentions Hitler first in a discussion automatically loses... :)

Quote:Spending more money than ever in our history ... money we don't have.

And if we didn't spend it, we'd be many times worse off in a couple of years. The only thing wrong with the ~$700 billion stimulus bill was that it had too much tax cuts in it and was too small. See, tax cuts are in fact the least effective form of economic stimulus. The most effective form? Food stamps. Something Republicans wanted to cut out of the stimulus bill.

What Obama should have done is instead of starting with a deeply flawed bill that was already nearly 50% tax cuts, he should have started with NO tax cuts in the bill. Then, when Snowe, Collins, and Spector said that they needed some tax cuts in it in order to support the bill, they'd have gotten them... but the total mix would have been dramatically better, with a lot more spent on stimulus and a lot less on less effective tax cuts. It's really too bad that Obama actually thought that Republicans would work with him... it should have been obvious that they have absolutely no intention of doing anything to actually try to fix our country's problems.

Quote:Creating the biggest debt in history.

Bush II did that, actually.

Reagan before him was almost as bad.

Obama won't come close to matching either, I expect. Certainly not Bush II, at any rate.

Quote:# Causing an inevitable wave of inflation which WILL happen, according to the laws of finance and economics

Long-term economic depression is something to be avoided. There's a reason that people vote against people saying things like you are when the country is in awful financial shape -- people finally see how much damage Republican policies are doing, and how little they are helping most people. So they vote Democratic, and ignore the increasingly smaller and more radical Republican party.

The worst part of the Great Depression came when FDR weakened his stimulus efforts and increased taxes, with the goal of coming closer to balancing budgets, in 1938... it was a total disaster and the country quickly plunged into the depths of depression. It's to avoid things like that that people elected Obama. So far he's doing an okay job, mostly good. The point is, we must do things to stabilize the economy and finance because to not do anything would be to invite much greater disaster. The government isn't spending all this money because it really wants to... it's doing it because it absolutely has to.


Quote:Scaring away the people he desperately needs to attract: investors.

Not the last time I checked...

Quote:Four!!! differnet cabinet appointees now charged as tax cheats!

Kind of strange, but not overly important.

Quote:# The stock market plunges every time he or one of his cabinet members open their mouths ... it's like clock work to watch.

What, going up four days in a row last week, and then only barely down today, doesn't mean anything?

Look, the economy is in terrible shape, and Obama's financial team's policies could use some work. They just sound a bit too much like Bush's, on things like bank rescue packages, for people to like them, even with the somewhat changed focus... and Geithner isn't exactly a great public speaker either.

But really, it's because the economy is in very bad shape. You can't turn that around overnight. These things take time.

Quote:# Oh, and he's using a crisis to force through a socialist agenda that has nothing to do with economic revitalization ... quite the opposite, actually.

I very, very much wish that Obama actually was in favor of socialized medicine (the only major aspect of socialism truly in consideration right now), because this country desperately needs it, but sadly, he isn't. That he wasn't,while most other Democrats running for President were, was one thing I disliked about him, in the primaries... but ultimately, the president doesn't write health care reform. Congress does. So we'll see what congress comes up with... hopefully it'll be the kind of dramatic reform and improvement that we need. Because healthcare is in critically bad shape in this country right now, and we need dramatic change. Costs are ridiculously high, results average at best. Our healthcare system is now below even Cuba's now, on average!

And fortunately, the American people realize this now. It's really too bad that this didn't get through in 1993, but hopefully we can make up for it now... public support is clearly much greater now, so chances are good. But on the other hand, HMOs have a lot (of profits) to lose, so there'll be a massive lobbying effort against it... hopefully it won't work, but with Washington the way it is, I wouldn't bet on anything. :(

Quote:And, of course, all our enemies (Iran, North Korea, Russia) are rattling their sabres and laughing at this rookie in the office. His letter to Putin was nothing less than treasonous, an affront to our staunch Eastern European allies and likely to plunge us into a war.

Cheney's the one who wanted war with Iran, not Obama. If you try to say that you missed the outstanding world reaction to Bush finally being gone, and Obama in, then you're lying. Russia? The US and Russia have been drifting apart ever since Putin got power in 2000 and began to crush opposition again. Of course they're not friendly right now.

But we've got an outstanding foreign policy team in place, from Joe Biden, probably the most knowlegable person on the issue of foreign policy in the US senate up until his departure, to Hillary Clinton and the AAA-class focus specialists we now have, from George Mitchell (broker of the Good Friday Accords that created peace in Ireland, after hundreds and hundreds of conflict, among many other things) in the Middle East to Richard Holbrooke (one of America's best and most respected diplomats, and behind the Dayton Accords that ended the Bosnian War) in Afghanistan and Pakistan, to Christopher Hill (another very good diplomat) as ambassador to Iraq.

No, there's a fantastic foreign policy team in place. Probably Russia has been testing things a bit, as Biden predicted before the election, but Obama's responses so far have been appropriate and measured, despite the degree of pressure. Russia's hurting a lot now too, you know, thanks to the collapse in oil prices and the financial collapse... they don't have the kinds of cash now they would have when oil prices were higher and their wealthy classes hadn't been so hard hit.

The letter to Putin was an attempt to lower tensions, not raise them. Anyone who has any knowledge of the situation would know that. You do know that in diplomacy you start by saying one thing, they start by saying some other thing, and then you slowly work towards a resolution, right? You really think that it would be a good idea to go ahead with that missile shield, even knowing how seriously Russia does not want that to happen and the very serious threats they have made in the event that it did (putting their own missiles right on the Polish border, for example)? No, I think that talking about it instead, and trying to come to terms, is the right course of action, and that's exactly what Obama is trying. Just because the Bush administration was incompetent and unable to see anything other than good or evil doesn't mean that the world works that way... certainly some people do very horrible things, and not everything can be forgiven or explained, but we need to work with Russia. Alienating them and angering them isn't the way to do it. Talking to them is.

Hah, only Republicans would say that attempts to patch back together the dangerously bad state of US-Russian relations are somehow actually making things worse. Is it always opposite day in Republican-land or something? :)

I know that anti-missile missile shields have been a core bit of Republican military spending ever since Reagan's 'Star Wars', but after so long, and with so little success to show for it (after all that money, it'd still be likely to fail), and with so much money spent, Democrats are, as much or more than ever, seriously skeptical of the sense of continuing with these plans.

Putting our efforts into making people hate us less is a better policy. Of course the Iranian government is a major threat right now, and their nuclear program a serious concern, but this Eastern European missile shield isn't worth it if it does as much damage to US-Russian relations as it seems to be doing. We need to find better ways to hopefully keep the Iranians from getting, much less using, nuclear weapons... hopefully we can, it definitely isn't looking good.

Of course, on the other hand Iran's people are actually less anti-American in some ways than the people of many so-called "friendly" Arab nations are, and their governmental system, while unfree and controlled by the clerics, has a greater democratic element than other Middle Eastern nations, Israel excepted. So even with nukes, it's not necessarily true that Iran would fire them at Israel, knowing that they would be devastated in return... of course, the best thing would be to keep the situation from coming up at all, but it does make me think of learning about America's fears of China getting the bomb, back in the 1950s. A lot of people thought that the Chinese government was insane and evil and would use nukes irregardless of the consequences, as soon as they got them...

And then they got nuclear weapons and did nothing of the sort. In a worst-case scenario where Iran gets a nuclear weapon, let's hope that that holds true there too... it well could. The Iranian government isn't absolute evil or anything... bad, but not even as bad as the Saudi government, really, overall. Of course, the Saudis are one of the worst in the world, as are the Chinese, and they're our "friends"... hopefully we can find a way to come to terms with Iran again. Maybe not, but hopefully.
Look... of course the amount of debt our country has is a problem. We need to start reducing it, as soon as possible... but we simply can't during a recession this bad. That kind of action during this kind of financial situation would stop, or reverse, any hope for recovery that we have because of the money we're now putting into the economy.
Hitler!!!!!!

~Claps hands wildly...
What, no response to that? :)
Looks as though 'change' may be all we have left.

A nine-trillion dollar deficit, and Obama wants to spend ever more. At this rate, the U.S. is careening towards the brick wall of bankruptcy on roller skates. Which, of course, will be the reason given when His Majesty proposes to double our taxes.
Hah, yeah, that would go far in congress... :)


Seriously though, the only tax increase Obama has any chance of getting through (or attempting to get through) is just the one he mentioned in the campaign, on the rich. You know, to try to counter the massive redistribution of wealth from the middle class and poor to the rich that happened in the Bush years...

As for the deficit, when you're in a recession and you're trying to stop it from getting worse, deficit problems happen. It's when the government stops spending and starts trying to limit losses that the recovery stops and backsliding begins...
There is a lot of absolutely useless spending that goes on in our government.

Example:

Quote:The village of Ouzinkie [Alaska] is one of the remotest outposts in the United States -- home to a mere 165 people on an island off another island off the coast of Alaska. There are no stores, no gas stations and no stoplights.

Yet the village will soon be home to a new $15 million airport paid for by taxpayers under the federal stimulus package.

That's one. Given time, one could probably locate thousands of others.
Ah, the usual right-wing obession wiht "pork"...

1) "Pork" is "useful local projects" by another name. It just depends on if you live in the area affected or not.

2) Spending of this kind is an extremely small percentage of the budget. Get rid of all of it and it would make just a tiny impact on the size of the budget deficit.

3) However, I do support greater transparency in allocations. They should be known things, not hidden riders no one knows about... but the actual spending itself is not a problem.
I agree with ABF about pork. It seems like a waste of money if it doesn't affect you, but if you live in the area you love it. My city is using stimulus money to extend a bike/running path behind my house and I couldn't be happier since I use the path all the time. With the economy the way it is many of these projects wouldn't happen but some of them could help the local economies (maybe not the running path, but the airport could help that local economy).
A town of 170 does not support a local economy justifying a $15 million investment like this. And, while bike paths and oversized airports are great, consider where this money comes from: We're borrowing from China. We have no money of our own to spend. We continue to deepen our historic debt.

There are a lot of things I think the government could do for me that would be convenient . . . but we're in such dire fiscal straits that I want the government to do only what is strictly necessary. It would be awesome if the state of Virginia had the money to build a freeway that connected my part of town to the interstate so that I don't have to drive fifteen miles mostly across roads littered with stoplights and traffic, but the state does not have that kind of money and neither does the federal government.

It's not a simple matter of pork, but there is a ton of it and how much of it is necessary when Obama's telling us that we face a $10,000,000,000,000 deficit in the next decade? You can't trim ten tril from cutting out pork, but every bit you cut out is money we don't have to borrow and mortgage our nation's future upon. This is the equivalent of a man with nothing in his bank account and a million dollars in debt trying to secure loans so he can buy a new boat and 60" TV. Why am I the only one who thinks that sounds not just ridiculous, but dangerous? How about we concern ourselves with trying to bring balance to this hideous budget first, and then we can worry about bike paths and freeways?

Unfortunately, our current President has absolutely no fiscal common sense, so the burden of our debt is only going to worsen, and probably to a severe degree. I can only hope it doesn't get irreversibly bad before Americans understand what a disaster this guy is becoming and elect someone, anyone, else with a shred of intelligence and responsibility in 2012. Democrat, Republican, shit, I'll even take a Green if he can show he has the basic ability to balance a god damn checkbook. Obama's sending this country into a telephone pole at 80 MPH. I'd even take Bill Clinton at this point.

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"You cannot spend your way out of recession or borrow your way out of debt"
--Daniel Hannan
Yeah, and then more bridges collapse like in Minnesota because we weren't spending enough on infrastructure.

Thank you, no, I'll take my so-called "pork". Spending money on improving America is a very good thing!

Oh, and governments spending money cannot in any way be compared to people's personal spending. Yes, America has a lot of debt, and we definitely need to work on reducing the budget deficit. But government debt on its own is not an inherently bad thing... I will agree that the fact that we owe so much to China is a problem, though, sure. But it's not like we have a choice, we badly need the money...

And anyway, more importantly this whole discussion is utterly ridiculous. The way that Republicans have latched on PORK of all things as the solution to our budget problems really puts in clear light how completely out of ideas they are. That something that is a tiny fraction of our budget, an extremely small amount compared to so many other things, is the ENTIRE FOCUS OF REPUBLICAN IDEAS FOR WHAT WE CAN DO TO REDUCE OUR BUDGET DEFICIT shows so, so clearly how completely broken their ideas are. Reaganomics failed miserably, Bush economics perhaps even worse. Tax cuts combined with expensive wars have destroyed our budget.

... On that note, we spend more money in Iraq in days than on "pork" in an entire year, and that entire stupid war is entirely Bush's fault... and you Republicans talk about caring about budget deficits? Ludicrous, absolutely ludicrous. Republicans increase the size of the budget deficit (and the national debt) faster than Democrats, every time. They like to start wars and increase the size of government WITHOUT raising taxes. Democrats at least like to think about how to pay for it! Note how the last time we had a budget surplus was under Clinton, a surplus Bush promptly destroyed with his first wave of stupid tax cuts? And then buried under vastly expensive wars and additional tax cuts, none of which were paid for? And these Republicans talk now about fiscal responsibility? It'd be a bad joke, if they didn't somehow think that they were being serious.
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