28th April 2008, 11:09 AM
28th April 2008, 1:01 PM
That's an improvement, I'll give them that.
It's still got a long way to go before it's at the level of Live though. What's the point of a game-specific channel anyway?
It's still got a long way to go before it's at the level of Live though. What's the point of a game-specific channel anyway?
28th April 2008, 1:47 PM
Are we going to have this same conversation with every online Nintendo game that comes out?
The game specific channel allows you to check tournament/time trial rankings, ghosts, and friend lists without booting up the game and to immediately go to specific events.
The game specific channel allows you to check tournament/time trial rankings, ghosts, and friend lists without booting up the game and to immediately go to specific events.
28th April 2008, 3:57 PM
Quote:Are we going to have this same conversation with every online Nintendo game that comes out?
Until they implement a decent system we certainly should.
So now with MKWii it's one layer of friends code instead of two? How great, what an innovation!
28th April 2008, 4:25 PM
Codes that everyone here should have put in by now.
28th April 2008, 4:35 PM
GR, I wasn't going to bring it up but you brought it on yourself. The thing is, you trotted out this extra channel giving the impression that this answered our complaints. It is perfectly reasonable that I'd chime in by noting that while it's an improvement, it does not in fact address everything. Besides, it's a good thing for people to consistently remind others that, hey, while changes are being made, there's more to be done. Look at it this way, the more Nintendo adds, the less stuff I'll keep bringing up every game they release. Wouldn't that be lovely, hmm?
I noted, for example, that my personal score in Geometry Wars is above your's, but my score in Catasomethingorother is below your's (which I should at least try to resolve, but I have yet to take the time to play that game to any extent). I also noted I did that WHILE PLAYING A DIFFERENT GAME. The idea of keeping track of multiple kinds of scores outside the game is a good one though, and with a game where personal bests in time trials are on a per-track basis, that's the way to go. In fact I'd take it over the current achievement system any day (so I've run around in a circle 5000 times and that's worth some sort of "gamer point"? Okaaayy). I'll also note that I can invite someone to a game no matter what game they happen to be playing, and they'll see it and be able to join instantly. Further, I can see what someone else is playing and get a rough description (varying from game to game) of what they are doing in said game, and FURTHER if they are playing a multiplayer game and have turned on the option to allow me to do so, I can JOIN their game already in progress. Setting up a big tournament ladder from the interface is the next step for MS I'll note. Individual games have their own ladders but it's handled in-game instead of via the interface and an interface solution would be nice. I'll add this though. Mario Kart Wii has tournament ladders now? I thought they were against that sort of thing, but it's good to see the spirit of competition alive and well there.
So that's a lot to say this one basic thing. Nintendo has a long way to go, this is a small improvement, and it only barely handles the gamer code issue.
I noted, for example, that my personal score in Geometry Wars is above your's, but my score in Catasomethingorother is below your's (which I should at least try to resolve, but I have yet to take the time to play that game to any extent). I also noted I did that WHILE PLAYING A DIFFERENT GAME. The idea of keeping track of multiple kinds of scores outside the game is a good one though, and with a game where personal bests in time trials are on a per-track basis, that's the way to go. In fact I'd take it over the current achievement system any day (so I've run around in a circle 5000 times and that's worth some sort of "gamer point"? Okaaayy). I'll also note that I can invite someone to a game no matter what game they happen to be playing, and they'll see it and be able to join instantly. Further, I can see what someone else is playing and get a rough description (varying from game to game) of what they are doing in said game, and FURTHER if they are playing a multiplayer game and have turned on the option to allow me to do so, I can JOIN their game already in progress. Setting up a big tournament ladder from the interface is the next step for MS I'll note. Individual games have their own ladders but it's handled in-game instead of via the interface and an interface solution would be nice. I'll add this though. Mario Kart Wii has tournament ladders now? I thought they were against that sort of thing, but it's good to see the spirit of competition alive and well there.
So that's a lot to say this one basic thing. Nintendo has a long way to go, this is a small improvement, and it only barely handles the gamer code issue.
28th April 2008, 5:22 PM
You guys just can't let it go can you? Did Nintendo's online service run over your dog or something?
I mentioned it because it's something that people might like to know before they start putting in a bunch of codes the way all the other Nintendo games required.
AND I made the thread to find out who had MK. Apparently I'm the only one.
Mario Kart Wii has time trial ladders for the top ten and graphs for the other positions, downloadable ghosts, tournament rankings, and the ability to compare times with friends, all of which is handled through the Mario Kart Channel.
I mentioned it because it's something that people might like to know before they start putting in a bunch of codes the way all the other Nintendo games required.
AND I made the thread to find out who had MK. Apparently I'm the only one.
Quote:Mario Kart Wii has tournament ladders now?
Mario Kart Wii has time trial ladders for the top ten and graphs for the other positions, downloadable ghosts, tournament rankings, and the ability to compare times with friends, all of which is handled through the Mario Kart Channel.
28th April 2008, 5:43 PM
It did, and I'll thank you not to bring up such a painful subject!
Actually yeah, I haven't got the game yet. I'll probably not get it for a while. I mean I've got a lot of games I haven't finished and I've still got my SSBB obsession. Yeah, I'll likely get it some time from now, maybe months, maybe a year from now, maybe change my mind next week. When it comes to deciding which game to buy on my list of "wants" it's more or less based on whims.
So anyway, why do you take me bringing it up to such great offense anyway? I'm not bringing any emotions to the table at all. I'm just saying what needs to be said. What, do I get them to work on it by NOT saying things are lacking?
Actually yeah, I haven't got the game yet. I'll probably not get it for a while. I mean I've got a lot of games I haven't finished and I've still got my SSBB obsession. Yeah, I'll likely get it some time from now, maybe months, maybe a year from now, maybe change my mind next week. When it comes to deciding which game to buy on my list of "wants" it's more or less based on whims.
So anyway, why do you take me bringing it up to such great offense anyway? I'm not bringing any emotions to the table at all. I'm just saying what needs to be said. What, do I get them to work on it by NOT saying things are lacking?
29th April 2008, 5:21 AM
It's a complaint that we've all heard a thousand times before and every single thread that pops up about an online Nintendo game we have to hear it again.
29th April 2008, 10:14 AM
Look GR, I'm going to say this once more. This is in response to a NEW Nintendo game with online features, and a criticism of the fact that they aren't catching up with Live.
Further, I can tell you right now. In the future, when Nintendo releases their next online game, I'll point out it's shortcomings in it's online features too, and the next, and the next.
What do you want me to do here? You MADE A THREAD ABOUT A NEW GAME, yes, I'm going to comment on it. If I'm pointing out the same thing, then blame Nintendo. They're the ones moving so slowly here, and they NEED prodding. They have people that read various message boards and I do intend to make note of this.
Besides, EVERYONE ELSE ON THE INTERNET MAKES THIS POINT REPEATEDLY TOO, as my recent comic post should demonstrate. It NEEDS to be brought up, repeatedly. If we don't, Nintendo will think "oh they shut up so they must be okay with it now". That's not good.
Oh, by the way, you're a hypocrite. You do the same thing, just not about Nintendo's online service.
Further, I can tell you right now. In the future, when Nintendo releases their next online game, I'll point out it's shortcomings in it's online features too, and the next, and the next.
What do you want me to do here? You MADE A THREAD ABOUT A NEW GAME, yes, I'm going to comment on it. If I'm pointing out the same thing, then blame Nintendo. They're the ones moving so slowly here, and they NEED prodding. They have people that read various message boards and I do intend to make note of this.
Besides, EVERYONE ELSE ON THE INTERNET MAKES THIS POINT REPEATEDLY TOO, as my recent comic post should demonstrate. It NEEDS to be brought up, repeatedly. If we don't, Nintendo will think "oh they shut up so they must be okay with it now". That's not good.
Oh, by the way, you're a hypocrite. You do the same thing, just not about Nintendo's online service.
29th April 2008, 10:35 AM
Well, first of all I was hoping that people who posted in here would be people that either had Mario Kart Wii or were about to get it so we could do some online racing, rather than bicker about what Nintendo does or does not do with their online for the one billionth time.
29th April 2008, 11:32 AM
Bickering? What bickering? I've stated it and there have been no arguments against what Nintendo lacks. The only disagreement seems to be that you don't want me to say it, for whatever reason. I don't see what you have against that.
Every single review of Nintendo's online games always goes over this point. IT BEARS REPEATING!
Every single review of Nintendo's online games always goes over this point. IT BEARS REPEATING!
29th April 2008, 11:59 AM
DJ, you should know by now that you're not allowed to criticize Nintendo for anything! They are perfect!
29th April 2008, 12:06 PM
You guys have your own thread now, so enjoy.
29th April 2008, 5:37 PM
...It should be just like Live! and completely free and Nintendo is full of shit for charging for updates and LOL friendcodes.
29th April 2008, 5:58 PM
Great Rumbler Wrote:You guys have your own thread now, so enjoy.
I'll be right along in your next thread about a new online game, if you make the right comment to trigger it.
And you'll be right there to comment about PC style RPGs.
29th April 2008, 6:20 PM
lazyfatbum Wrote:...It should be just like Live! and completely free and Nintendo is full of shit for charging for updates and LOL friendcodes.
Live has it's issues, but the thing to note is there is absolutely nothing Nintendo has done that MS is not currently doing better, and there are a lot of things MS is doing that Nintendo isn't doing at all. That's a painful thing to say, but it's true. Well I guess there is one thing. MS makes it way too hard to transfer "rights" between systems. A lot easier with Nintendo right now. Aside from that though, even MS's online store is far easier to navigate, and since the basic page structure is a function of the internal software and not a fully downloaded page layout, it is MUCH faster on top of that.
I guess what I'm saying is there's work to be done in all departments. That said, Nintendo's charging for updates? Not last I checked, namely because they don't have a system in place TO update their games! BAZIIIING! No seriously, there was no reason the glitch in TP couldn't be patched except that they don't have any code in place to allow for that possibility.
As for friend codes, when it gets right down to it a friend code is just a more awkward nickname and isn't that much worse than writing down a phone number (woah, memorizing phone numbers, we had it rough back then...). It's better with Mario Kart actually using the system code (though I'll note it's a locked "system code" as opposed to a portable universal code). I will ask if I'm automatically on your friend list or if I have to go into that Mario Kart channel and "refriend" you in the Mario Kart world just using the system code to get in tough. Again, an improvement, but there's a lot that can be done.
I want Nintendo to do something original, but they aren't doing any of that, so they should play catchup for now and later worry about doing the new.
There's hope of course. They do have enough in place to get it up to the level of the 360 with the right effort. That is, they have updating firmware, an online network, and the ability to pull up the OS during games.
29th April 2008, 8:57 PM
Oh my flaking crust God DJ I was being sarcastic Jesus!
*reassuring nod that what was previously said is still valid*
My thinking is this. Nintendo is playing a lot of politics with the online world just as much if not more with the HD world. The Wii wasn't the right time to go HD and the market reflects that with a steadily climbing though still low install base of people capable of using the HD hardware. Nintendo even said flat out that the next Nintendo system will be HD but whether or not that's the fabled Wii2 with DVD playback (Bluray...?
) or the next wholly encompassing platform remains to be seen. But the online aspect is the same principal, I think. They are generating their own structure so that it becomes the top billing, trounces Live! and makes Nintendo a healthy profit. That takes years to accomplish. Everyone who owns a Wii and gets X game with online multiplayer will try it, atleast once. I think the ideas behind the friend codes, system codes and what not is to have a detailed listing of each and every user, coded by region as well, so that Nintendo knows how to market it.
Mind you, they dont want to grab that 20 percentile of online gamers, they want to make every gamer go online that owns a Wii. The same cant be said for every PS3 or 360 owners whose numbers are actually really surprising.
*reassuring nod that what was previously said is still valid*
My thinking is this. Nintendo is playing a lot of politics with the online world just as much if not more with the HD world. The Wii wasn't the right time to go HD and the market reflects that with a steadily climbing though still low install base of people capable of using the HD hardware. Nintendo even said flat out that the next Nintendo system will be HD but whether or not that's the fabled Wii2 with DVD playback (Bluray...?
) or the next wholly encompassing platform remains to be seen. But the online aspect is the same principal, I think. They are generating their own structure so that it becomes the top billing, trounces Live! and makes Nintendo a healthy profit. That takes years to accomplish. Everyone who owns a Wii and gets X game with online multiplayer will try it, atleast once. I think the ideas behind the friend codes, system codes and what not is to have a detailed listing of each and every user, coded by region as well, so that Nintendo knows how to market it.Mind you, they dont want to grab that 20 percentile of online gamers, they want to make every gamer go online that owns a Wii. The same cant be said for every PS3 or 360 owners whose numbers are actually really surprising.
29th April 2008, 11:11 PM
Well I always thought of the HD thing as just another aspect of graphics anyway and accepted some time ago that the Wii was intentionally not being designed to be the top graphics dog (that's the polite way to say it's two Gamecubes duck-taped together, and yes I called it "duck tape", saw an interesting history of it on the History Channel a few weeks ago).
The main problem with the "it takes years to accomplish" thing is other companies have 1-upped Nintendo in a fairly quick amount of time. Years yes, but the Wii has been planned and released in a pretty quick amount of time.
Also, if the idea is to "test the waters" then their experiment has a fatal flaw. You can't test someone's desire to buy lemon pie by checking sales of crust. Unfortunatly marketting departments aren't as smart as they like to think they are...
You can't "market your way to the top" by the way (well, at least you can't stay there for long), and Nintendo is starting to realize that. You want surprising numbers? Check Wii game sales compaired to Wii sales. It seems like everyone was convinced by Ellen and Oprah to buy the thing and are just sitting around playing Wii Sports. By "everyone" I mean the casual audience that is clearly eating the thing up. If the sales I keep seeing reported on the news sites say anything, it's that Nintendo needs to convince casual gamers to actually start buying games for that impulse buy of their's. I'm not sure Wii Fit is going to do the job, but then again their target audience are the sorts that buy "treadmills" because they don't seem to realize that a hallway is just as good (and besides that, if they couldn't bother to work out for free what makes them think that getting a machine that does something something around the house can do just as well will get them moving?).
Anyway, I don't disagree that it'll take a while for them to develop the system, but I've seen no indication that they have even made any plans to do so. Look at Sony. They've already put together a much better system than what Nintendo has in place, and while it can't match up to MS's system, at this rate it'll get there pretty quick.
I'd also point out that they aren't really gathering any data that MS doesn't also have the ability to get. MS knows exactly how many people are playing every single game, what they have done in the game, how long they have played it, and (this is key) with all of them connected to a single tag they have data on what each user likes to play. Oh yes, they ALSO have full regional data. It's called an IP address and at this point those things can be traced to cities (also Live requires you fill out country info, and it's in the user's best interest to be honest because region determines what they see in the marketplace). Further, MS has been tracking this data since the initial implementation of Live on the original XBox, which (sad to say) was still better than Nintendo's current implementation of their online service. Oh yes, I'll add that when the friend codes are "system locked" it hinders playing with your online data on someone else's machine, which means Nintendo loses that data. So if it's an issue of data tracking, MS wins there too.
There is one thing I'll give to Nintendo, and it is a big one. Their online matchmaking is free of charge. MS charges. Sure it's only 50 a year, which isn't that much, but it is hardly nothing, especially if we're talking about a kid who saves up their allowance to buy their games and have to earn their chance to play online (that said, the current batch of kids I overhear on Live seem to be spoiled brats, seriously I mean I figure we're talking a minority and I'm not about to say "kids these days" but honestly THIS bunch are... well that's a side tangent and honestly I'm expecting to see these kids once again when Nintendo catches up). Sony's is free, Valve's online service is free. Generally speaking, the only exception is with MMOs with a much much larger infrastructure cost.
Anyway, there's the issue of increasing the number of people playing games online. That would probably be a little more important if they had a fee like MS does. As it stands, if MS has a 20% installed user rate to subscriber (maybe, but that's still 10 million subscribers, according to Wikipedia) that's not too bad. I really don't see how having a bad online experience right now is supposed to actually raise that percentage later. People are taking the experience right now for what it is. Nintendo first needs to get over that. I'm also not sure how they could just, I dunno, force people to play more online? I mean the online feature is going to be right on the main menu. If they are interested they'll play. If not, they won't. That's just the way it is. The fact of the matter is online play in games is very lucrative right now. It doesn't matter what Nintendo seems to think, everyone else realizes it's important to have that support. Do less people play online than offline? Well, yeah. What do you expect?
The main problem with the "it takes years to accomplish" thing is other companies have 1-upped Nintendo in a fairly quick amount of time. Years yes, but the Wii has been planned and released in a pretty quick amount of time.
Also, if the idea is to "test the waters" then their experiment has a fatal flaw. You can't test someone's desire to buy lemon pie by checking sales of crust. Unfortunatly marketting departments aren't as smart as they like to think they are...
You can't "market your way to the top" by the way (well, at least you can't stay there for long), and Nintendo is starting to realize that. You want surprising numbers? Check Wii game sales compaired to Wii sales. It seems like everyone was convinced by Ellen and Oprah to buy the thing and are just sitting around playing Wii Sports. By "everyone" I mean the casual audience that is clearly eating the thing up. If the sales I keep seeing reported on the news sites say anything, it's that Nintendo needs to convince casual gamers to actually start buying games for that impulse buy of their's. I'm not sure Wii Fit is going to do the job, but then again their target audience are the sorts that buy "treadmills" because they don't seem to realize that a hallway is just as good (and besides that, if they couldn't bother to work out for free what makes them think that getting a machine that does something something around the house can do just as well will get them moving?).
Anyway, I don't disagree that it'll take a while for them to develop the system, but I've seen no indication that they have even made any plans to do so. Look at Sony. They've already put together a much better system than what Nintendo has in place, and while it can't match up to MS's system, at this rate it'll get there pretty quick.
I'd also point out that they aren't really gathering any data that MS doesn't also have the ability to get. MS knows exactly how many people are playing every single game, what they have done in the game, how long they have played it, and (this is key) with all of them connected to a single tag they have data on what each user likes to play. Oh yes, they ALSO have full regional data. It's called an IP address and at this point those things can be traced to cities (also Live requires you fill out country info, and it's in the user's best interest to be honest because region determines what they see in the marketplace). Further, MS has been tracking this data since the initial implementation of Live on the original XBox, which (sad to say) was still better than Nintendo's current implementation of their online service. Oh yes, I'll add that when the friend codes are "system locked" it hinders playing with your online data on someone else's machine, which means Nintendo loses that data. So if it's an issue of data tracking, MS wins there too.
There is one thing I'll give to Nintendo, and it is a big one. Their online matchmaking is free of charge. MS charges. Sure it's only 50 a year, which isn't that much, but it is hardly nothing, especially if we're talking about a kid who saves up their allowance to buy their games and have to earn their chance to play online (that said, the current batch of kids I overhear on Live seem to be spoiled brats, seriously I mean I figure we're talking a minority and I'm not about to say "kids these days" but honestly THIS bunch are... well that's a side tangent and honestly I'm expecting to see these kids once again when Nintendo catches up). Sony's is free, Valve's online service is free. Generally speaking, the only exception is with MMOs with a much much larger infrastructure cost.
Anyway, there's the issue of increasing the number of people playing games online. That would probably be a little more important if they had a fee like MS does. As it stands, if MS has a 20% installed user rate to subscriber (maybe, but that's still 10 million subscribers, according to Wikipedia) that's not too bad. I really don't see how having a bad online experience right now is supposed to actually raise that percentage later. People are taking the experience right now for what it is. Nintendo first needs to get over that. I'm also not sure how they could just, I dunno, force people to play more online? I mean the online feature is going to be right on the main menu. If they are interested they'll play. If not, they won't. That's just the way it is. The fact of the matter is online play in games is very lucrative right now. It doesn't matter what Nintendo seems to think, everyone else realizes it's important to have that support. Do less people play online than offline? Well, yeah. What do you expect?