Tendo City

Cruis'n USA is on the VC now :)

:)

(But I got the N64 version for like $3 last year... $10 is ridiculous, particulalry for a version which you CANNOT use the cheats with, because they all require pressing multiple C buttons at the same time -- impossible on the awful CC controller! This means that in the VC version, you can't use the four hidden vehicles. Half of the game's vehicles aren't usable on VC? That's so, so stupid...)

A very good point made somewhat less effective through the use of quotation marks.

When you had your ability to feel happiness surgically removed, was it a necessary operation or was it your choice?

Whoopsies, I meant PARANTHESES above.

EdenMaster Wrote:When you had your ability to feel happiness surgically removed, was it a necessary operation or was it your choice?

If Nintendo had actually designed a competent classic controller for N64 and Genesis games, and spent more time making their emulators so that features like controller paks were actually supported, I wouldn't be complaining... but they didn't, so of course I'm going to complain. Not doing so would be ridiculous, given the problems.

I mean... Cruis'n USA is fun, but for $10, and minus all of the features you can only access through cheat codes? Idon't think I'd buy it, even if I didn't already have it for N64. Though of course, I do have it for N64 (and because of the inferiority of the CC or GC for N64 games, I'd never want to play anything on Wii VC that I can play on an actual N64), that's just a hypothetical.

Fittisize Wrote:Whoopsies, I meant PARANTHESES above.

Bah, () and ... are your friend. :)

The right control stick mimics the C buttons.

He's right, though, in saying you can't press multiple C buttons at once with the control stick. Sometimes, though, Nintendo includes alternative options in their VC games when something like this isn't supported but you don't really know unless you hear from someone who has the game.

How is the CC awful? The CC is awesome in nearly every way, in fact it's my control of choice for Brawl.

A game that was designed with the CC in mind.

Now then, attempt to press left and right at the same time as though you are inputting cheat codes in an N64 game, and you see that it isn't the best for everything in the entire universe.

You guys and your cheat codes.

That's just an example. I'm pretty sure Banjo Kazooie would be tough to control using a stick instead of the C buttons (not as good on the response time). You really need to take the effort to understand the argument someone IS making. The biggest problem you bring to any debate is your overbearing tendancy to create strawman arguments.

GR, again, it's not really a cheat code. It's an unlocking code, and is the only way to access four of the game's eight cars.

Not being able to access them is a quite significant loss.

Dark Jaguar Wrote:That's just an example. I'm pretty sure Banjo Kazooie would be tough to control using a stick instead of the C buttons (not as good on the response time). You really need to take the effort to understand the argument someone IS making. The biggest problem you bring to any debate is your overbearing tendancy to create strawman arguments.

Not to mention most N64 fighting games (Mortal Kombat, Mace, etc), Rush, the other Rare 3d platformers, both Zelda games, and so, so many more...

The idea of replacing four buttons with an analog stick is just incredibly, incredibly stupid. We're finally getting absolute proof of that fact.

They were trying to create a controller that would work well for the majority of games. Some old ones, and some new ones that would be designed around it. There is only so much room on the face of a controller. Something had to give, and personally, I think they did a great job with the CC. I think it's got a case of button overload as it is, and you think they should have added MORE?

Is it ideal for everything? Perhaps not. Great for <i>damn near</i> anything? You bet.

I wouldn't call it button overload, mainly because it's got the same number of buttons as the PS3 and 360 controllers, actually two less (the two sticks don't act as buttons as they do on the other two controllers).

It is a nice controller. It could be a little more comfortable, and I must say I'm impressed with how the shoulder buttons are more easily accessible than I originally thought they would be. I'm just saying there is room for improvement.

My list:
Make the controller standalone. It is a little awkward having a pseudo-wireless controller. It's not entirely tethered, but it isn't as free as it could be.

Add grips. While the controller is still pretty comfortable, in an SNES controller way, it isn't quite as good as the gamecube controller in terms of comfort, and grips go a long way towards that.

Add a total of 4 more buttons. The first two are the ones I mentioned before, that is, adding a "click" to the two analog sticks so they can be used as buttons. This will allow for more games to be added to retro. The second two are just two more buttons to make it a full 6 button layout on the face of the controller. Now in case there are concerns about space, consider the gamecube controller layout. The face buttons are unique but only at first glance. On thinking about it, doesn't it look exactly like a 6 button layout minus the upper left and upper right buttons? There's easily room to add those buttons and still be comfortable.

Allow the controller to be used in Gamecube games. This is one of the extremely few nitpicks I have with the backwards compatibility of Gamecube games. Nintendo's BC is almost completely perfect and way ahead of both Sony and MS (especially MS). I'm just saying that one should shoot for the moon here. In this case I just mean that allowing the firmware to assign controllers to trick the GCN into thinking they are plugged into the gamecube controller slots would be just like the method currently used on the other two systems. Incidentally, they could also do the reverse and allow Gamecube controllers to navigate the Wii menu. I can tell you it's just a little annoying to have to get up and pick up a Wii remote just to turn on a Gamecube game when I already have a fully functioning controller option right in my hands.

Lastly, and this is an ergonomics decision I've seen a total of ONCE in all the systems I've used but am shocked was never reused, consider putting the shoulder buttons on the back of the controller. This was done on the Virtual Boy, and personally I found it to be the most comfortable location I've ever found for those buttons.

EdenMaster Wrote:They were trying to create a controller that would work well for the majority of games.

If that was actually their goal, they failed.

I don't think it WAS their goal, though. Their goal was different: to make a controller that looked like a SNES controller, but had all of the Wii's buttons.

A controller that was designed for the majority of games would have six face buttons and rumble. The fact that it has neither conclusively proves that "works for the majority" was never their intention, and nor was a controller that could reasonably replace the N64 controller.

Quote: Some old ones, and some new ones that would be designed around it. There is only so much room on the face of a controller. Something had to give, and personally, I think they did a great job with the CC. I think it's got a case of button overload as it is, and you think they should have added MORE?

The only "button overload" is the dual shoulder buttons. A proper layout with six face buttons would make one of those buttons irrelevant, and a better controller design that allowed for triggers (and handles) would do the same for the other.

Quote:Is it ideal for everything?

No.

Quote:Great for <i>damn near</i> anything?

Absolutely not.

Well, I'm not about to spark another debate that spans 10 pages because I do believe we've had this one before. All I know is that every one of the 20+ VC games I have downloaded have all worked great with the Classic Controller. I have nothing bad to say about it.[/qyote]

That is wholly because of the choices of platforms you have bought games form.

Quote:

Dark Jaguar Wrote:Lastly, and this is an ergonomics decision I've seen a total of ONCE in all the systems I've used but am shocked was never reused, consider putting the shoulder buttons on the back of the controller. This was done on the Virtual Boy, and personally I found it to be the most comfortable location I've ever found for those buttons.

You're shocked they didn't reuse a feature they debuted on the Virtual Boy? :D

The VB controller is fantastic, and those buttons (which are much more like triggers than shoulder buttons) are indeed better than any shoulder button ever. Indeed, they're only slightly behind the triggers of the N64, Dreamcast, Saturn 3d, and MS Sidewinder controllers in overall quality.

Unlike ABF I'd say that they didn't fail in their controller design. For NES, SNES, Master System, Neo Geo, and a large number of Genesis games, that controller works fine. However, I'd rather not use it for a few Genesis games and a larger number of N64 games. I will say that for some N64 games, the classic controller might actually be better (that is, games where the C buttons are, say, the buttons used to strafe or for camera control). However, for certain other games, I'd prefer the C button setup.

That's why I think with a few alterations, the classic controller could be perfect, or as close as can be reasonably expected. (Oh yes, I forgot about rumble, that could be added in that "dream revision".) I will state right now I don't intend on cramming a full number pad, rotating dials, and a track ball on there (though for "full compatibility with all classic systems", they would be "needed").

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Quote:I will state right now I don't intend on cramming a full number pad, rotating dials, and a track ball on there (though for "full compatibility with all classic systems", they would be "needed").

I do agree there, that should be separate controller(s). :)

EdenMaster Wrote:Well, I'm not about to spark another debate that spans 10 pages because I do believe we've had this one before. All I know is that every one of the 20+ VC games I have downloaded have all worked great with the Classic Controller. I have nothing bad to say about it.[/qyote]

That is wholly because of the choices of platforms you have bought games form.




The VB controller is fantastic, and those buttons (which are much more like triggers than shoulder buttons) are indeed better than any shoulder button ever. Indeed, they're only slightly behind the triggers of the N64, Dreamcast, Saturn 3d, and MS Sidewinder controllers in overall quality.

???

Huh, did I do that? Sorry, didn't mean to...

What did you press edit instead of quote?

Obviously I did. The buttons are easy to confuse, being right next to eachother...