Tendo City

The master of descriptive thread titles strikes again!

And, yes, he's absolutely right. It's not enough that sequels be good games, they also have to rigidly conform to everything that its predecessor did. Unless, of course, we didn't like the last game. In that case, the new sequel had better be different or there will hell to pay!

For example: ABF is upset, or however you want to say it, that Fallout 3 is going to be different from Fallout 1 and 2. It's first-person, not really turn-based, and doesn't have the same writers as the previous games. This makes him ANGRY. On the other hand, SSBB is just too similar to SSBM. Why couldn't Nintendo have changed things up and made it more interesting instead of just updating the roster and level list? Angry!

:FuckYou:

I think that was a quite descriptive, and accurate, thread title. :)

If you want more detail, the fundamental problem with the article is that, while written in a supposedly 'consiliatory' perspective or something, comes across very, very strongly as a Bethesda RPG fan tract. He's basically saying "Sure I loved Fallout, but TES is great too, so why would Fallout done like TES be bad?" ... well, because a lot of fans don't think TES is all that great, of course! But in that article, all of that is completely lost in favor of standard 'Bethesda is awesome's. If you're trying to convince any Fallout fans with that kind of stuff, you are going to completely fail.

The article is aimed at a very small group of gamers: People who love both Fallout AND TES. It does absolutely nothing to assuage any of the complaints of the vast majority of the hardcore Fallout fanbase, people who don't like TES very much. It might do a decent job of convincing TES fans to try out Fallout 3, though... and since TES fans are obviously the game's target market, that's not such a bad idea.

I mean, I obviously haven't played Oblivion, but I have Arena and Morrowind and the Daggerfall demo, and while the games are okay, if deeply flawed in a bunch of ways, but Fallout is a much better game.

Honestly... go read this...

http://tcforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=792

Note how my primary complaint isn't that the game isn't fun, it's that it's just not Baldur's Gate. As it was I liked it, but with a different name I would have liked it even more.

Quote:For example: ABF is upset, or however you want to say it, that Fallout 3 is going to be different from Fallout 1 and 2. It's first-person, not really turn-based, and doesn't have the same writers as the previous games. This makes him ANGRY. On the other hand, SSBB is just too similar to SSBM. Why couldn't Nintendo have changed things up and made it more interesting instead of just updating the roster and level list? Angry!

Not the same composer either, we now know (see that Mark Morgan interview). :)

Quote:Not the same composer either, we now know (see that Mark Morgan interview).

Yes, it's a different game, we all understand that you don't like that sort of thing.

Quote:but Fallout is a much better game.

Maybe, maybe not. I played Fallout 1 for about 12 hours and I played Oblivion for about 200 hours, with Morrowind not too far behind. That's about all I want out of Fallout 3, a great experience. Everything else? A nice extra.

Quote:Maybe, maybe not. I played Fallout 1 for about 12 hours and I played Oblivion for about 200 hours, with Morrowind not too far behind. That's about all I want out of Fallout 3, a great experience. Everything else? A nice extra.

Um, wasn't that pretty much my point? That this article is perfect for people like you, but does absolutely nothing for the hardcore Fallout fanbase, that is the people who are the most vocal, and are generally not people who enjoyed TES?

Nothing is ever going to do anything for the hardcore Fallout base because they want Fallout 3 to be EXACTLY like Fallout 1 and 2 and they want all of the original team back. Fallout 3 is not Fallout 1 and 2, the sooner people start to realize that the more they might actually be able to enjoy the game on the merits that it brings to the table.

Well yeah, there's definitely a strong element of "If Black Isle or Troika can't make it, no one should" to the protests, that is true... but with the shrinking of the non-MMO Western RPG developer base to near zero, it's not like there are many options. Obsidian and Bioware aren't doing it (though either one could do a decent job I'm sure), and there are no other real options... except Bethesda. Who won't make a Fallout game, but TES: "Fallout".

... yeah, that makes me pretty sympathetic with "nothing" as the better option...

Either play the game or don't, just stop complaining about it.

He's got the right to say what he wants. By extension, you have every right to be critical of his opinions.

I personally liked Oblivion so I might like this game as well. However, if he didn't like Oblivion, I would think he's got a point saying he doesn't agree with the game going in that direction. What's wrong with that?

I also agree that those arguing that there should never be ANY changes still have the first two if that's how they feel. However, their arguments don't seem to be that it shouldn't change at all, just that they don't want it to be Elder Scrolls.

That said, I wonder if it'll actually be like Elder Scrolls.

Quote:He's got the right to say what he wants. By extension, you have every right to be critical of his opinions.

Yes, yes, everyone has their own personal rights. I'm merely pointing out that every thing he brings up, which occurs quite often, is more or less the same thing over and over. It's always something about how Bethesda isn't really that good at making RPGs or how Fallout 3 is changing too much from "The Formula".

From what I've gathered, ABF has virtually zero intention of playing this game. He even went as far as to say that he'd rather this game didn't even exist at all if it had to be made by Bethesda. So why does he constantly feel the need to keep bringing up every little article and tidbit of information regarding it?

It's like the guy who dumps his girlfriend for cheating on him and yet continues to follow her every move so he can find something else to get upset about in order to justify himself.

Quote:That said, I wonder if it'll actually be like Elder Scrolls.

Only in a very general sense. It's got actual dialogue trees, branching storyline with multiple endings, post-apocalyptic setting, bigger emphasis on stats, actual targetting during combat, guns, more unique NPCs, radiation, bigger emphasis on survival and scrounging for equipment, and Ron Perlman.

It's got some differences, yeah, but we already have a game that's exactly like Fallout. It's called "Fallout 2".

Maybe he's interested. You know no one's making you read his topics.

GR: Who cares why decendents look like their parents. We just do. That's all that matters! Who cares if you noticed that when you shine light through a prism there seems to be heated spots outside the range of the colors you see? Do you really need to keep complaining about the geocentric model of the universe? It's fine, shut up already, shut up! The only things anyone should ever talk about are things that make them money right now. That's the measure of importance.

Okay that was satire, and tastes in games aren't the sort of objective observations I'm talking about there, but my point is even suggesting someone just "shut up and stop voicing their opinions", even if they are voicing similar ones repeatedly, is actually rather counter to the entire enterprise of human endevor.

Quote:Maybe he's interested. You know no one's making you read his topics.

I had to click on this thread and then follow a link to figure out what the thread was about.

And TC has so, so many threads that doing that must be a HUGE burden!

Seriously, get over it. If you're too lazy to clic links, you shouldn't be posting anyway... posting without actually reading articles that the threads are about is wrong. It just leads to misinformed statements...

Great Rumbler Wrote:From what I've gathered, ABF has virtually zero intention of playing this game.

Well, virtually zero intention of buying it, anyway. If there was a demo (no chance of that, Bethesda hasn't done demos since Redguard, annoyingly) I'd try it.

Quote:It's got some differences, yeah, but we already have a game that's exactly like Fallout. It's called "Fallout 2".

And then we came so, so close to having a third one... :(

(The Van Buren techdemo was awesome!)

Quote:Seriously, get over it. If you're too lazy to clic links, you shouldn't be posting anyway... posting without actually reading articles that the threads are about is wrong. It just leads to misinformed statements...

It's annoying when the name of a thread and the first post don't have enough information to immediately tell what the subject of the thread is.

Instead of "No." and a link, it would be better if you posted "Should fans of Oblivion worry about Fallout 3? No." and your first post should have been "I don't agree with this articles because blah blah blah". Give me a reason to want to read the article.