http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YV4Jz3OPTio
See 1 throu 6.
The mass media and education system in the U.S is just as much a instrument for thought control as the soviet unions was.
This will explain whats going on in America yesterday today and tomorrow.
This is just silly.
...
I-feel-per-fect-ly-fine-thanks-for-ask-ing-I-just-thought-I-would-let-you-know-that.
Fairly certain that, today, Freud's ideas are generally considered as invalid, if not entirely worthless.
So Sigmund's responsible for the world going to shit....
I think that makes him an even bigger monster then Hitler or Nixon.
I dare say even satan himself could have been so evil as to invent a science that led to the public manipulation of the planet based on the principle that were all mindless idiots.
And then to prove it in mass force....
This is why Salem is full of dumb shit, crack smoking, wife beating rednecks and bitch ass child neglecting whores. It your fault Sigmund I have to deal with these fuckers at work, and when I meat you in hell I will make you suffer!
There I fell slightly better now.... But only a little!!! :cuss:
N-Man Wrote:Fairly certain that, today, Freud's ideas are generally considered as invalid, if not entirely worthless.
Well that is true of a lot of them, because he generally didn't do a lot of controlled studies. I believe he actually gave a lot of his patients cocaine and noted their improved moods when they left as an indicator of it's valid use as a depression treatment.
HOWEVER, not everything he said is worthless. There's some diamonds in the rough. "Projection" has some evidence backing it and seems valid, for example. It's just that concepts like Id and Super ego are largely outdated. Current concepts of the subconcious have pretty much outright replaced that old conjecture. There certainly is a subconcious but it has lost a lot of those mystical overtones and is a far more mundane thing, thought of more programmatically. Pretty much anything our brain does that we aren't conciously aware of is subconcious now, such as heart rate control and triggering stomach acid release. However the majority of such activities have little bearing on the parts of our brain having to do with personality.
One thing's for sure, dream analysis is considered pretty much dead as an idea. Nothing ever really backed it up as worthwhile, and interpretting items in dreams as absolute representations of other thoughts is certainly pseudo science material. That sort of thing really stems from ancient times though. Everyone's tried seeing meaning in those strange images in our heads. The evidence seems to favor that the meaning is really more or less a combination of catagorizing memories as we sleep and the low level activity of certain areas of our brain resulting in a lot of generation of more or less crazy procedural thoughts. Our brains go way beyond Spore in being procedural, so when you shut off large portions of it and allow others to run in low activity mode it basically means they still have to work with what inputs they get so it results in a pretty messy assortment since our dreams don't really need to be in any particular form at all to enhance our survival, so nothing's selected for. That also explains the "flow" from scene to scene in a dream. Every scene affects the other very directly. For more information check your local library. Oh, and our brain's workings when dreaming, or drunk, or high or whatever are no more the "real" us than we are when our brains are in normal waking operation. Our waking selves are how we TRULY are when all centers of the brain are fully awake and aren't over stimulated or inhibited. Our sleeping selves are how we TRULY are when large parts of our brain are more or less turned off. I just prefer my waking self, but since I don't really remember my dreams the majority of the time anyway, it's a moot point.
Oh, and subliminal messaging is pretty much considered a hoax. It was claimed many decades ago by some guy he did tests to show that people shown an add really quickly during a movie bought more of that item by a statistically significant amount, and that would be evidence, but he's never been able to provide any evidence at all he did the test, and with a claim like that you'd think he would take the time. Further, and this is a key part of the scientific method, other scientists who got very interested tried to reproduce those results and have all failed. It's safe to say he was faking it. Study after study attempting to replicate those results shows no effect of subliminal messaging. People shown quick flashes of pictures of a snickers bar during a short movie and then asked to pick from an assortment of snacks in front of them (basically a theater lobby scenario) pick the snickers no greater than chance would predict, and when ASKED if they notice any particular cravings they say what they crave is the item shown no greater than chance. These are done double blinded so the interviewer has no idea what the flashing image is either.
And, to get even more off topic, it doesn't help the psychiatry field that there are a billion self styled "therapists" out there who just up and decided to start "helping people" one day and have nothing backing their methods but a nice office and an assuring smile. And, the public in general, unlike with other sorts of doctors, have no information on how to tell what's the junk psychiatry from the established medicine.
I think part 4 piece on the Guatemala united fruit incident ; Is the subject I'd thought you would pick up how you were scamed into deposing a democratic socialist leader for the sake of some corporation that owned the country and didn't want to lose its source of income and monopolized control of the nation on the false pretense of Communism.
I had doubts about subliminal; It is possible by using a authoritative medium to dupe people into believing untrue things though; Orson Welles incident in 1939 where his radio show fooled millions into believing that aliens were attacking and wiping out cities, Then there is 2003 prewar propaganda for iraq.
Oh, I think the USA really thought they would find (at least a couple) chemical weapons in Iraq. My bet is on gross incompetence rather than masterful propaganda.
Do you know whether Guzman would have aligned with the Soviets or not? Regardless of what the United Fruit wanted, it was US policy throughout the Cold War to remove all potentially communist-friendly leaders in America, be they revolutionaries or democratically elected. This was not "mind control", it was a strategic decision with an openly-discussed ideological basis. In the case of Guatemala, potential conflicts of interest. You can agree with it or you can disagree with it, but this conspiratorial mumbo-jumbo just gives me a headache.
Okay wait just a second... you AREN'T joking about the hypnotism ASM?
Really while I agree with some of that you are kinda sounding like a conspiracy nut there...
Quote:Orson Welles incident in 1939 where his radio show fooled millions into believing that aliens were attacking and wiping out cities,
There was a disclaimer before the program... only people who tuned in in the middle of the broadcast could have been fooled.
So, is Bush an evil genius mastermind or totally incompetent nincompoop? I can never keep up with which it is...
Furthermore the people that were "fooled" really should have had some better critical thinking skills.
Yeah GR that is one messed up thing with the conspiracy theorists.
A Black Falcon Wrote:There was a disclaimer before the program... only people who tuned in in the middle of the broadcast could have been fooled.
The disclaimers also repeated at the end of every commercial break and often throughout the broadcast. Including one aimed directly at the people instructing them to "calm down" that it's "all fake" which aired even in the middle of the broadcast.
The real sad thing is that Orson Wells tool every possible precaution to ovoid mass panic and the people still ran around like horrified idiots.
Not like the whole frickin' country though. The reality is it was isolated groups (contradiction in terms, yes I'm aware, you know what I mean).
Oh, and to throw a wrench into the "America must be under mass hypnosis" thing, consider the current approval ratings, and the fact that the election was so very frickin' close to begin with (popular vote even went to the other guy).
N-Man Wrote:Oh, I think the USA really thought they would find (at least a couple) chemical weapons in Iraq. My bet is on gross incompetence rather than masterful propaganda.
The hypnosis thing isn't true; There is propaganda and misinformation; Hypnotic control thing is bogus I am not saying your under hypnosis.
The Bush Administration did present a pile of bogus propaganda like the tracker trailers and African powder cakes before the war . It waisnt incompetence they had a goal of going into Iraq for years in advance there was even a Iraqi liberation act passed in 1998; That pretty much says it all;They wanted to find any means to sell it and manufacture anything to gain consent from the public ;They didn't care if the intel was credible or not.
You don't think that special interest and wealthy opportunist have some sway of how things are run? Is your goverment incorruptible?
The term banana republic comes from Guatemala
That was the McCarthyism era when people were claiming that Pornography and rock in roll had links to communism.
I am not convinced that Guzman had any strong ties to the soviet union and was framed by the elite of who were upset about his landreforms;What he was doing was no different then what America did in the 1800's.
It still proof that America runs undemocratic satraps abroad. The CIA replaced him with a repressive Junta after Operation PBSUCCESS; Many Guatemalans died and the soldiers and personnel of the military state are guilty of raping the women of the country side among other things; Washington did not give a hoot so long as it waisnt a soviet satellite like Cuba and a America friendly goverment open to free trade;They supported Batista before Castro came in and the mafia ran Cuba.
Due to the fact it was CIA interference that brought in the Junta ; Guatemalans blaim you for all the evils of that period on your country.
Guzman was only suspect of being a communist before hand and the incriminating evidence only emerged after the CIA OP with the militants? It is a fishy story.
What about the other countries that thought Iraq had chemical/biological weapons as well? It wasn't like America was the only one saying they had that kind of thing.
Quote:What about the other countries that thought Iraq had chemical/biological weapons as well? It wasn't like America was the only one saying they had that kind of thing.
Yeah, I do believe that people really thought that Iraq had chemical weapons, including, I believe, many people within the Iraqi government itself. Sadaam wanted to have them, and did in the '80s, and didn't want to hear that they didn't anymore thanks to the effectiveness of the UN sanctions crippling the nation's economy... this has nothing to do with why we invaded, though. I thought at the time (and still think) that Bush made such a big deal about WMD because he thought that it would be the easiest excuse to prove. His administration had been determined to invade Iraq from the day they got into office (for the usual reasons: revenge, profit, political gain, etc). All they needed was an excuse, and between 9/11 and WMD they found it. Sure, the WMD thing didn't turn out to be true, but it helped get us into Iraq, so it served its purpose at the time...
In fact, I'd say, everyone was so sure that Iraq had chemical and perhaps biological weapons that nobody thought to check and see if the "witnesses" telling them about WMD in Iraq were credible or if they actually had any intelligence operatives in the country telling them any direct intelligence on the matter. It turned out that they didn't have either. It definitely says something about the danger of assumptions...
Id be lieing If I don't admit I suspected Saddam had weapons before the war.
Why do you trust the mainstream media it has become a monopoly? Just a small select few privately own the media and can use it for whatever aims they want through information spin.
Great Rumbler Wrote:So, is Bush an evil genius mastermind or totally incompetent nincompoop? I can never keep up with which it is...
Bush isn't a master mind ; he just works for them.
alien space marine Wrote:The hypnosis thing isn't true; There is propaganda and misinformation; Hypnotic control thing is bogus I am not saying your under hypnosis.
The Bush Administration did present a pile of bogus propaganda like the tracker trailers and African powder cakes before the war . It waisnt incompetence they had a goal of going into Iraq for years in advance there was even a Iraqi liberation act passed in 1998; That pretty much says it all;They wanted to find any means to sell it and manufacture anything to gain consent from the public ;They didn't care if the intel was credible or not.
Precisely. That's not propaganda, it's incompetence.
Quote: You don't think that special interest and wealthy opportunist have some sway of how things are run? Is your goverment incorruptible?
My government is incorruptible, as it is led by the unflappable hairdo of The Right Honorable Stephen Harper. In the United States however, lobbyist groups are legal and regulated. Call it corruption if you like.
Quote:The term banana republic comes from Guatemala
The capital of Poland is Warsaw
Quote:That was the McCarthyism era when people were claiming that Pornography and rock in roll had links to communism.
McCarthyism has nothing to do with it. Containment was a major part of US policy straight up to 1989.
Quote:I am not convinced that Guzman had any strong ties to the soviet union and was framed by the elite of who were upset about his landreforms;What he was doing was no different then what America did in the 1800's.
Land reform in 19th century USA. Sure, I guess after Dr. Freud's mind control machines that's not so far-fetched.
You know what land reform is, you tell me if it indicates a socialist bent or not.
Quote:
It still proof that America runs undemocratic satraps abroad. The CIA replaced him with a repressive Junta after Operation PBSUCCESS; Many Guatemalans died and the soldiers and personnel of the military state are guilty of raping the women of the country side among other things; Washington did not give a hoot so long as it waisnt a soviet satellite like Cuba and a America friendly goverment open to free trade;They supported Batista before Castro came in and the mafia ran Cuba.
Now you're getting it.
Quote:Due to the fact it was CIA interference that brought in the Junta ; Guatemalans blaim you for all the evils of that period on your country.
They blame ME?! A pox on Guatemala.
Containment is a doctrine developed by American strategists, notably George Kennan in his
Long telegram. It basically states that the communist system will eventually fall apart from its own failures, and that the only duty of the democracies is to contain its expansion - through military means - throughout the world until the USSR implodes. You will run across many other instances of the USA removing a democratically-elected (or not) government in South America over the course of the Cold War. This isn't because there are secret masters from the Bavarian Illuminati controlling everything, it's because such coups were part of an all-encompassing doctrine of military containment against the USSR. That they led to undemocratic governments is unfortunate but ultimately irrelevant, as worldwide democracy was not so much the USA's objective as fighting communism was.
Whether money interests precipitated this or that coup can be interesting, but you are making a mistake in assuming that they were the primary driver of US Cold War foreign policy.
Nothing like being berated by N-man
Steven harper is a big reptile and you are a big pox on Guatemala N-man! :D
homestead act
Anyhow Guzman wanted to do the same as what Abraham Lincoln had done in the 19th century America for the plantations in Guatemala. United fruit owned most of the land in Guatemala at that time so they didn't take kindly to the goverment wanting to cease huge chunks of their property and give it to regular Guatemalan farmers to cultivate; Sure it doest respect property rights but it was their business down in that country.
I believe that the deposing of Guzman had more to do with protecting the interest of the wealthy then fighting communism.
Your free to believe otherwise.
Public land, ASM, public land. That's why land reform in the USA would have been ridiculous; there was plenty of undeveloped land for anyone who wanted it. Land reform is redistribution of privately-owned land. Redistribution of private property, what does that remind you of? That US interests were involved helps, but history shows that the USA didn't mind getting their hands dirty even where they had little or no direct commercial interest (Nicaragua, Grenada...). Ergo, ideology supersedes direct financial interests, at least in the case of the Cold War.
Regardless, I've been arguing from a realist standpoint, and from a realist standpoint there isn't really anything wrong either with defending your country's commercial interests, so the point is moot. You can very well adopt a liberal point of view and argue that the USA should support democracy and national self-determination at all costs. That's not my problem with your presentation; my problem is that you suggest that we are victims of propaganda, and are therefore unable to properly debate the issue. This is patently false, and, as you have demonstrated, the information is widely available for anyone to consult; and anyone so inclined will be able to come to his or her own conclusions concerning US foreign policy, past, present and future. It is spurious to claim that information is being modified or withheld from anyone; the truth is that most people are simply not interested in debating the merits of Wilsonianism, realpolitik, and so forth. You basically say "if only people knew about this..." but the truth is that if you show people only the good, they'll see things one way; if you show people only the bad, they'll see things another way; if you show them both, then they'll be able to compare the bad and the good, but few people have the inclination to do this, and those who do - experts - don't come to an obvious conclusion. They study the possibilities, and by doing so continually improve their field of study.