Tendo City

So Nintendo has a new Wii channel they hope to be all the rage, which allows you to post your Miis for others to view and enter contests to make a Mii according to a theme.

I have to say I really think Nintendo needs to stop with all these stupid things and get back to making stuff that actually has to do with games. Don't get me wrong, I know Nintendo is still making awesome games, like Twilight Princess and the upcoming Mario Galaxy, but really when I think of all the things they need to catch up on with the other consoles and I see them wasting time adding "features" like this, well it frustrates me. Really whatever team is making this American Idol stuff needs to be refocused on improving the online gaming experience. That's what is supposed to make Nintendo better than everyone else right? That's the thing all the Nintendo fanboys always use to defend the lack of this or that feature right? Nintendo just cares about GAMES? Well, what the heck does a Mii model runway have to do with games? I can already share my Miis and there's that Mii parade. I really don't care about a monthly contest considering that the Mii system doesn't really allow enough variation to really make those contests that interesting.

Really what Nintendo should do is try to reach, as Penny Arcade calls it, feature parity with MS. Nintendo coming up with original stuff beyond what MS is doing? That's fine, but we've given them ample time and instead of doing that, they give us Everybody Votes. No, that's not an online feature nor an online revolution. It's an online poll. They had their chance, and they aren't above copying people, so copy MS already!

I know I know, it's old news here and I keep bringing it up, but seriously it's getting a bit annoying to see that Nintendo is spending so much money on non-features when they have so much to catch up on in other departments. Next update I want to see is something, anything really, from the long list of XBox Live features on the 360. Persistant friends lists (same friends list no matter what game so you don't need to make a new one every time), for example, would be a start. Inviting from one game to another, that's good. Seeing what others are playing from anywhere in the interface, also good. Full voice chat in any game, that's fine too. Being able to invite anyone you match against to your friends list, that's a plus. And, so Nintendo has no excuses, parental controls that extend to the online experience (IE, turning off voice chat). There's more. Downloadable content for games, and also online game patching and autodetection of patches for games (they could have fixed the Zelda cannon room glitch without sending out new disks, for example). Matchmaking is something Nintendo can do so far, but they should allow users to have control, to make custom matches they set the parameters on. Ranked ladders, that's good, and the ranking should be used in matchmaking so you get matched against someone of your skill level.

Every single feature I listed up there is in XBox Live, every last one, and I'm sure I'm still forgetting some.

They don't need to bother with adding a movie download service. That's something MS does but that's not game related of course. I really don't care about something like that. Further, I really don't care about "custom themes" or "gamer icons". MS also provides those, or to be more accurate, they SELL those, for money. Yes, icons and "themes" for cash money. Ugh... I must confess I did spend some points on an icon set. In my defense I was just "getting rid" of 50 points I couldn't spend on anything else, though I did kick myself right afterwards when I realized I fell for such an obvious money trap. I wasn't ever going to use those icons and I could have saved those points, and oh yes, that reminds me how much I hate those "point" systems, making me spend more money than what the item actually costs in points is beyond annoying, it's fairly close to robbery.

Anyway back on topic, Nintendo should focus their Wii channel team on adding the features I talked about above. Do that, then I won't care if you spend your time adding virtual polls or catwalks for avatars.

Listen I'm not all negative, and you know that. I have nothing but praise for their motion sensing control innovation (my only criticism is some button placement issues on the main controller), and Zelda Twilight Princess is one of the best games I've played in a long time. I also have been nothing short of amazed by the upcoming Mario Galaxy, which looks not just fun but pretty creative, unlike Sunshine before it. I'll criticize when I see something lacking but I will lavish praise when I see somethin awesome.

I'll keep bringing up this online issue until it's resolved, and if they don't, then just prepare to be annoyed for a whole console generation :D, but if they DO resolve these issues, I WILL be the first to praise Nintendo for it. You can count on that. I probably won't stop that either. I mean you've seen how much I keep complimenting MS's system.

haha, SMS "not creative"? I swear to god that game gets shit on by everyone who didn't actually play it which isn't difficult since we're talking about the GC. SMS was Mario 64 tweaked, updated and streamlined. The only actual problem with it mechanically was swimming which was retarded but otherwise it improved on Mario 64 in every way and added something that Mario 64 was lacking: imaginative originallity. Was it a leap from Super Mario World to Mario 64? No. But neither is Galaxy which is going to be SMS in space - Bee suit, fireflower, etc is almost the same as the nozzles for the backpack (Boo suit will act like the invis cap from M64) in terms of overall gameplay. The entire reason SMS isn't appreciated is because it was released very late on a console that wasn't very popular. The Wii is a hyper-commercial console built to be popular, we get Zelda with realistic graphics, party games with personel avatars, games for people that pose for the Gap etc. The GC was all about experimentation like WW, SMS, Luigi's Mansion, etc highly original stuff and for the most part they got shit on for it. But look at what's happening now: "SMG has the fireflower!!!!!1 now i'll get it!!!1 *I SUK DIK 4 NOSTALGIA*" Okay maybe it's not that bad, but holy shit SMS is a AAA game, how can you play it and think it's anything less?

*are frustrated*

Well, basically because it was Mario 64, only it removed some of Mario's acrobatics moves and replaced it with a total of 3 new moves, a really big jump (oooh, a high jump, yeah that's way more fun than a WING CAP), a dash (yeah, that actually was pretty fun) and the third one I totally forgot. Washing things off was interesting but I got a lot more fun out of things like the metal cap and the vanish cap, and combining cap effects now and again. Also the bosses in SM64 were more fun to me, especially the final boss. Flinging bowser around was more fun than just doing really high jump "ground pounds".

Mario Galaxy seems to have all the acrobatics back in full effect and some actual FUN powerups, and while not as innovative as Mario 64 was, it actually DOES bring something new, all that crazy gravity stuff! Sunshine didn't bring jack to the table, but those galaxy videos... that's some crazy stuff.

Oh, I actually liked Luigi's Mansion, though it was pretty short. And oh yes, I loved Wind Waker, except that that one felt a little rushed and the triforce part finding was pretty boring. And, to set the record straight, I actually did like Mario Sunshine. I just didn't like it as much as Mario 64, in fact not really even close. The fact is, I had played "copycat" Mario 64 games for a while. It's fine to copy a game that worked, sure, but I played two Banjo games and DK64 before Sunshine came out. The formula had gotten old. I understand Galaxy is still using the "collect the jiggy" system and all that, but I can easily forgive that with all the other crazy stuff I'm seeing, and oh yes, it's got the new control scheme with the wii controller. Sunshine can't even pray to be in the same contest as Galaxy.

So A, don't assume I didn't play it, and B don't assume you are the only person on the planet who can make up their mind on a game using the game's actual qualities. People only don't like it because it was released on an unpopular system late in it's life? What a contrived excuse, and I notice you don't even have any evidence for it. Maybe people didn't like it for other reasons? Or, as in my case, maybe they liked it, but only in the same way they liked DK64.

Yeah, I do like nostalgia things, I'll admit it. It's part of why I like Family Guy in fact. I hate that Robot Chicken show though. Why the heck do so many people seem to like that show? The jokes all suck! Seriously you can only do a "this guy from that old cartoon is here, but getting TORTURED" joke for so long before it gets old. Oooh, how edgy! Yeah, clever back in middle school. And yes, I saw some of their Star Wars thing.... ugh... Family Guy did it a lot better, a LOT better. Nothing funnier than that whole couch scene.

Only DJ could turn some fun little thing that probably took someone an hour to program and turn it into some grand, nine-paragraph rant about Nintendo's online infrastructure.

No.

I bet ABF could do that too :D

All I'm saying is that it seems a wasted effort when they could redirect all that to something that actually would be fun. Really this is a rather pointless thing. I mean is anyone actually going to use it?

Here's my question. What do you guys think? Would you rather see Nintendo work on stuff like this, or overhauling their game related online bits?

And hey, it's not like I just got annoyed about this all at once. Nintendo has been focusing their efforts on things like this all along and I've been fine with it. Never said too much of anything with each new feature, but you can only take so much you know? How long did you expect me to just stay quiet? Individually, I don't know how much effort each took, but really all together and you have a rather grand amount of time and money that could have been better spent. I mean GR's an accountant right? I'd expect he'd agree with that too.

The Check Mii Out Channel didn't take resources away from fixing any of the problems you were talking about.

So what you're saying is the people they had setting up the server software for this system would have just been doing nothing? Well, yeah I can see that, because Nintendo apparently has no interest at all in fixing those problems.

That's the point. They don't see those things as problems, so they're NOT going to be fixed.

And that's a huge, huge problem.

Only if you'd rather complain about things than actually play games.

Who said I do that?

Honestly, you keep bringing up this thing like you DON'T judge the problems of games ALL THE TIME. You DO! There's that ENTIRE review forum dedicated to it! Are you seriously trying to tell me that, in spite of all the posts in the past, you as of now no longer have had been complaining about all that?

I'm only finding a lack of decent online support here. I don't know what sort of mob mentallity took over recently, but I'm just going to sit here and wait for the very next time you criticize some game, and you WILL, so I can say "just ENJOY the game" right back at you.

What the heck is wrong with you two... the amount of denial it takes to pretend that Nintendo's online system is even vaguely competent for anything beyond the barest, most casual, use is so huge that you completely ruin your credibility by saying that it "doesn't matter". Well, unless you back that up by saying "because I dislike all online games", of course, but neither of you do that.

"Just go pretend everything's all happy and nice when we all know it isn't" is a ridiculous argument, as is trying to say that there is something redeemable about the insane restrictions Nintendo puts on online games on its service. Conversation with other players makes online multiplayer what it is. Record-keeping makes you want to keep playing; even in Starcraft/WC3 sometimes it can seem "pointless" to play UMS/Custom a lot, because no records are kept there, but you can save replays of your victories, talk with the other players, maybe play another game of the same map with some of the same people... and there's always the ranked ladder if that's not enough.

Dark Jaguar Wrote:I'm only finding a lack of decent online support here. I don't know what sort of mob mentallity took over recently, but I'm just going to sit here and wait for the very next time you criticize some game, and you WILL, so I can say "just ENJOY the game" right back at you.

Nintendo doesn't really actually support its online service. They certainly never did anything to stop any of the hacks in any DS online games, for instance, and I wouldn't be surprised if they took the same attitude towards Wii online games. Nintendo just doesn't care...

Great Rumbler Wrote:Only if you'd rather complain about things than actually play games.

Or, as a more direct answer, we can't play games (online) when they refuse to implement the features that make online gaming truly possible.

(Or to take that statement another way... Honestly, what's the point of a gaming forum if we don't talk about the good and the bad of what gaming companies are doing? That IS the point of a gaming forum. So stop repeating this same stupid line over and over... it doesn't move the debate anywhere. Respond to the issue, don't try to dodge it by pretending that gaming forums shouldn't talk about gaming or something... and if your point is "talk positively", I'd respond by saying "well I do make posts that try to do such things, but they rarely get much in the way of a response...")

Quote:Yeah, I do like nostalgia things, I'll admit it. It's part of why I like Family Guy in fact. I hate that Robot Chicken show though. Why the heck do so many people seem to like that show? The jokes all suck! Seriously you can only do a "this guy from that old cartoon is here, but getting TORTURED" joke for so long before it gets old. Oooh, how edgy! Yeah, clever back in middle school. And yes, I saw some of their Star Wars thing.... ugh... Family Guy did it a lot better, a LOT better. Nothing funnier than that whole couch scene.

Bah, Family Guy is awful and Robot Chicken is good. Sure Robot Chicken is evil a lot, but Family Guy's callous cruelty is perhaps worse, and the show isn't often actually funny... "LOOK AT HOW STUPID THE CHARACTERS ARE" isn't good humor, darnit! :)

Family Guy Star Wars... Obi-Wan as that child rapist guy? That's not funny at all.

Quote:Or, as a more direct answer, we can't play games (online) when they refuse to implement the features that make online gaming truly possible.

Have you seen Nintendo's online numbers? Guitar Hero 3 has been at over 500k connections for the past two weeks and Pokemon is consistently over 1 million connection per week.

Obviously people ARE playing Nintendo games online and apparently enjoying it because they keep playing it week after week.

Sure, but if you looked at individual users, I would completely expect you to find online usage rates on Wii online to tail off significantly faster than on any other online network, maybe ever, given that it's the worst online network ever features-wise.

That is, I bet that those numbers are mostly held up by new people trying out the online mode and a small core of people who mostly/only play with people they have on their friends lists, and that this is less true on other networks because there is a lot more there to hold people's interest.

Hmm... that's interesting... Well Pokemon is Pokemon. I'm going to expect that. Let's look at it overall, like Xbox Live versus Nintendo Wifi.

Anyway, should Nintendo get around to revising their online network, I'd call their new initiative "Nintendo Go". It's short and it works well I think.

A Black Falcon Wrote:Sure, but if you looked at individual users, I would completely expect you to find online usage rates on Wii online to tail off significantly faster than on any other online network, maybe ever, given that it's the worst online network ever features-wise.

That is, I bet that those numbers are mostly held up by new people trying out the online mode and a small core of people who mostly/only play with people they have on their friends lists, and that this is less true on other networks because there is a lot more there to hold people's interest.

Pokemon has been getting over a million connections per week for more than five and a half months. That's hardly just "new people trying out the online mode".

Animal Crossing and Mario Kart DS are also still pulling in over 200k connections per week. Metroid Prime Hunters has about 150k per week.

Random numbers without things that explain how many actual UNIQUE USERS that means, and that don't compare those numbers to numbers from other online services, really mean nothing at all...

So you think that there's only ten people playing twenty thousand rounds of Mario Kart DS per week?

Probably not, but possibly, who knows? Just the pure number of connections doesn't tell you very much, particularly when it's not a number you can actually COMPARE to anything from other services...