Tendo City

Do you actually play your online DS games, like, ever? I've got two (that are online) and don't. Because it's not worth it with such a stripped-down system. It is (or will be, as Pokemon Battle Revolution is the only online game so far) exactly the same for Wii online.

Quote:If SSBB isn't online it's only because they couldn't get it implented properly, for whatever reason.

I think that it'd be more like "if it turns out to be hard they'll just drop it without trying at all because they really don't care". It's obviously possible given how many games are online so "we can't do it" would be the stupidest and least believable excuse ever.

Sakurai said from day one that he wanted online in SSBB and would try to get it put in there.

Quote:Do you actually play your online DS games, like, ever?

Yes, I've played Mario Kart online numerous times.

I've played Mario Kart DS, StarFox Assault, and Tetris DS online and have fully enjoyed all of them. Your logic is so flawed it's laughable. You refuse to play these games online because you feel they're too restrictive. It's like saying you don't want an ice cream sundae because there are no nuts on it.

Why not put more emphasis on what is there, instead of shunning it for what is not?

GR also makes a valid point. While all of the games on that list are big titles, Brawl is, far and away, Nintendo's multiplayer powerhouse. The game that people will buy Wii's for. The game that, years from now, will still feel fresh, just as Melee before it has. Nintendo knows that this is the biggest title that they have in their arsenal and probably one of the most anticipated games the Wii will ever see.

Now then, if they're implementing online play in the marginally entertaining Mario soccer franchise they started only one game ago, I have no reason to believe they won't for Brawl. Nintendo is coming around on online gaming, slowly but surely. They don't "hate" it anymore, they're just not as gung ho about it as Sony and Microsoft are. Doesn't look to me like it's hurting Nintendo's sales much...

If Brawl is not online, there will be a reason. Not "if it turns out to be hard they'll just drop it without trying at all because they really don't care". That's probably the dumbest thing I've ever heard you say. And I've been here a long time :D.

Quote:If Brawl is not online, there will be a reason. Not "if it turns out to be hard they'll just drop it without trying at all because they really don't care". That's probably the dumbest thing I've ever heard you say. And I've been here a long time .

Why would this be true when every single bit of evidence I've ever seen from Nintendo says that they still don't care one bit about online gaming? They entered the online gaming world grudgingly and very late and haven't given up on their long-held dislike. Oh, they're happy enough to use the internet for digital game distribution (Wii VC) because that makes money, but an online network? Something that might not make money and is done for the gamers? That most console gamers don't care much about? And Japanese gamers care about even less? No, they really don't care. If SSBB was being developed by an American studio things might be different, but coming from Japan... and Nintendo...

Well, just look at their record. "Spotty" would be quite understating things.

Quote:Doesn't look to me like it's hurting Nintendo's sales much...

And that is exactly why they don't care: because the casual or nongamer markets they are aiming at don't care about online gamers because they haven't played them, and the hardcore Nintendo fanbase doesn't care much about online games either because Nintendo has never provided them, and Nintendo's other big market, kids, mostly don't play online games, and online gaming is still far less popular in Japan than here (much less South Korea where online multiplayer games are the dominant form of gaming)... What reason do they have to care? To attract longtime Western gamers, when their whole strategy pretty much ignores them, core Nintendo fans aside?

Mario Soccer... yeah, I don't know why that is online. It's clearly a Europe-first title, if that means anything, though...

Quote:I've played Mario Kart DS, StarFox Assault, and Tetris DS online and have fully enjoyed all of them. Your logic is so flawed it's laughable. You refuse to play these games online because you feel they're too restrictive. It's like saying you don't want an ice cream sundae because there are no nuts on it.

Well, as far as online DS games go I only have two (of 10 games), Castlevania Portrait of Ruin and Metroid Prime Hunters... and most of the time I don't have access to a wireless router and am not going to spend $40 for that stupid dongle thing so I can use it via my PC so I can't always play them online. But it's so limited that even if I could I doubt I would... I could if I wanted to, but I don't. That wouldn't change if I got Mario Kart or something.

As for the rest of that, I've explained in great length before exactly why the DS (and now Wii) online networks are horribly broken and, compared to those facts, saying that it's like "you don't want an ice cream sundae because there are no nuts on it" is stupid and ridiculous. It's more like not wanting an ice cream sundae because all they're selling is plain vanilla cones. With no cone unless you personally know the clerk. :)

Seriously, Nintendo's online service is incredibly insulting to its fans and defending it is really stupid. People who actually play online games expect more.

Oh yes, on the issue of "progress". Is there any? I don't see it. I see no signs that the Wii will allow you to add people you meet in random games to your friends list. Or use usernames instead of idiotic friends codes for that purpose. Or allow chat between the people (text or voice, whatever) playing the game. Or have lobby systems allowing more customization and socialization (and community-forming; as it is there is no way to form a game community, really). Etc. No, they're sticking with what they already have... or worse. I mean, Wii doesn't even have voice chat (much less text chat) like a couple of DS games have, even just for friends-list people!

Man, you really hate Nintendo's online stuff.

No, I love online games and badly wish that Nintendo would make their games online so that I could play them that way. Online F-Zero or Fire Emblem could be so amazingly great, just like online PC games are... it's really, really depressing that Nintendo refuses to even think of it. :(

Oh yeah, and I made my last post like twice as long through edits. Read it again. :)

I play online games, ABF. I'd rather not count the hours I've spent blowing people away in Counter Strike Source. While your point is valid, in that Nintendo's online service isn't as varied as (to cite a personal example) Steam, it's enough for me. When I play Mario Kart, I'm not sitting there thinking "man, I sure wish I could add this guy to my friends list" or "boy, I wish I could talk into the microphone" or wow, this service is really lacking". I'm thinking "I am playing Mario Kart online".

I don't see any reason not to enjoy it for what it is. I dare say that people like who who shun it are giving Nintendo the <i>impression</i> we don't care by not using it. Perhaps if it were shown how popular it is, Nintendo would expand the service.

I repeat a line I said in my earlier post that went ignored:

Me, like, right up there Wrote:Why not put more emphasis on what is there, instead of shunning it for what is not?

Because just accepting what is there isn't going to change anything. Complaining will though, if Nintendo hears it. If Nintendo doesn't bother doing any actual research and just concludes that it shouldn't bother doing online, that would certainly be stupid on their part.

I myself DO play it and think "wow this is annoying, why can't I do this and this and this", because it's annoying that I can't. I do like what is there so far, an online Mario Kart. Don't get me wrong there. I just want more, and we SHOULD want more. Complaining is an important part of capitalism after all. Don't knock complaining so much. Besides, I PAID FOR IT. I think I deserve to ask Nintendo to include stuff since it's MY money here. That's just how it works.

By the way, Steam's online service is only marginally better than Nintendo's. They have a long way to go too.

Dark Jaguar Wrote:By the way, Steam's online service is only marginally better than Nintendo's. They have a long way to go too.

How so?

Every single time, I swear.

WE KNOW YOU DON'T LIKE NINTENDO'S ONLINE SERVICE; WE GET IT!!!

EdenMaster Wrote:How so?

Well for one thing, even after adding a friend to my friend's list, very often the "invite" feature fails. So, stability. Secondly, the matchmaking is rather convoluted, and there's no automatic matchmaking, ladders, or "approved maps" from which to do automatic matchmaking. Nintendo actually is a bit ahead of the game in that sense I suppose.

GR, it bears repeating.

Anyway, I'm basically saying I am of the same opinion as Penny Arcade when it comes to online service. Live is a buffet. Others struggle to catch up. Nintendo's online service doesn't actually exist, at least on the Wii, until an online game actually comes out.

Quote:Anyway, I'm basically saying I am of the same opinion as Penny Arcade when it comes to online service. Live is a buffet. Others struggle to catch up. Nintendo's online service doesn't actually exist, at least on the Wii, until an online game actually comes out.

Pokemon Battle Revolution is "online". It works like a DS game, where you need to trade friends codes externally in order to be able to play. I don't know if it has random matchmaking... maybe not.

Quote:I play online games, ABF. I'd rather not count the hours I've spent blowing people away in Counter Strike Source. While your point is valid, in that Nintendo's online service isn't as varied as (to cite a personal example) Steam, it's enough for me. When I play Mario Kart, I'm not sitting there thinking "man, I sure wish I could add this guy to my friends list" or "boy, I wish I could talk into the microphone" or wow, this service is really lacking". I'm thinking "I am playing Mario Kart online".

Given how bad the service is that would not be the way I would be thinking, I know that for sure... and it shouldn't be. Excusing Nintendo for a major, continued mistake is stupid. You're completely letting them off the hook for a major problem they refuse to fix and it's ridiculous. There are so many things wrong with the service and so many absolutely essential features missing that it's impossible to "just enjoy the service". How can you feel like you're playing an online game when the other people have no actual personalities or meaning? They just feel like silent AIs who are probably a little better (or at least less consistent) than the AIs in the single player mode, nothing more and nothing less...

As for Steam I've never played an online game against others over Steam so I can't say anything about it as far as an online gaming service goes... my ideal model is of course Battle.net. Though every online gaming service I have ever used on the PC over the years (SIGS, Gamespy Arcade, MPlayer, Zone.com, Battle.net, Westwood Chat/Westwood Online, Ubisoft Gameservice versions 2 and 3, various in-game server browsers like Gamespy provides for FPSes, game-specific systems like Netstorm has, MMO/online RPG setups, etc...) is better than what Nintendo offers. Sure, most of them may not have random matchmaking (I can't remember having that in any PC games I'd played before Warcraft III, unless I'm forgetting something), but when you can actually join games at will and talk to others about the rules for this specific game that doesn't matter.

Quote:GR, it bears repeating.

Not when anytime someone mentions "online" and "Nintendo" you two come in and bring up the same arguements.

Quote:Nintendo's online service doesn't actually exist, at least on the Wii, until an online game actually comes out.

Pokemon Battle Revolution is out right now in the US, it has online. Also, Mario Strikers Charged is out in Europe right now, it was online. Plus, there's several online-enabled games out right now in Japan.

Quote:Not when anytime someone mentions "online" and "Nintendo" you two come in and bring up the same arguements.

We posted at almost the same time, don't miss my last post... :)

As for why that is, it's simple. Nintendo's position on the matter hasn't changed, and it is an extremely important issue that Nintendo badly needs to improve on. That they won't is very sad, and until (or unless) Nintendo changes I should continue to say so.

Well yeah, we agree, and we sure like talking about it, and it's a FORUM.

Quote:Well yeah, we agree, and we sure like talking about it, and it's a FORUM.

Exactly. Talking about things like this is why this place EXISTS.

It gets kind of boring the one hundreth time that someone mentions a Nintendo game being online you guys come in and say "Nintendo's online stuff is really dumb! I wish they'd make it better because I can't stand the way it is right now! It's so bad that I can't even begin to imagine actually trying to play any of those games!!". Every single time.

It's the correct reaction though. And that's not quite what I say. :)

Well hey you can just skip those posts then.

Right. But now we've gotten sidetracked from the actual discussion... :)

Come to think of it it only becomes a big deal when GR over here starts complaining about our complaining :D.

That is true too... :)

http://www.atlus.com/touchdetective2/

Just wanted to say (in the only thread I can find that it was mentioned in) that the Touch Detective 2 1/2 website is up, with (quite amusing) trailer. I know I at least will be getting this game... :)